Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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2 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I've made this argument before that I think Snyder is VERY aware.  The notion that he is oblivious to why the team sucks, what people are saying, or why the stadium is empty never made sense.  He knew.  IMO, that's why he stopped giving interviews.  

 

Dan rarely gave interviews to begin with...like once every seven years lol...i don't think it's tied to how the Skins are doing now.

 

And I agree, Dan knows everything. He's not walking around in a bubble with only Bruce to filter the outside world to him. My argument, though, was that he probably doesn't care about the majority of the stuff. Hashtag movements? Nah. Empty stadiums? Definitely. Twitter speculation? please. Leaks in the media? Absolutely.

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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

McShay mentioned he had not talked with Meyer just yet.

When the two discuss specifically coaching the Redskins - McShay lets loose. 

"I'd rather coach 31 other teams, let's put it that way," he  says at the end of the clip.  Patrick clarifies by asking, "than Washington?" McShay confirms his answer as "than Washington right now!"  

You don't have to take McShay's words as anything other than an opinion and you don't have to think it matters. 

It does to me because he has connections and some influence. He is directly saying to anyone who will listen publicly and privately, that the Redskins are a disaster and that he would do his best to convince any friend not to take the job unless the circumstances are different. 

 

 

Yeah, I think McShay having "influence" is hyperbole.  I HIGHLY doubt Urban Meyer's future will be based, in any way, shape, form, or fashion on McShay's opinion.  Of ALL the people Meyer knows in the football world, I dont think that one carries as much weight as that writer would have you believe.  He makes it sound like he's Meyer's right hand man.  lol  

 

Not to mention, I dont doubt a ton of people feel the same as McShay, why would any candidate listen to him specifically?

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I'll start with no one of us could have a definitive view of how Dan thinks since he talks so little and seems to have a super close circle.

 

My best go of it is listening to his old buddy Vinny who has talked about it before.  Vinny has said bad publicity when it comes from fans bother him a lot.  He hates fan outcry in most forms.  Vinny said even if Dan himself doesn't spot it -- Dan's family does. 

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Allen has got to be out of the building, period! If he's reassigned and not let go altogether, it's like removing a horrible chef from the kitchen and reassigning him to the dining room to serve the new chefs cooking, where he'll bad mouth the new chef's cooking to all the dinee's....capeesh!!! 

Edited by fearlessNelms
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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'll start with no one of us could have a definitive view of how Dan thinks since he talks so little and seems to have a super close circle.

 

My best go of it is listening to his old buddy Vinny who has talked about it before.  Vinny has said bad publicity when it comes from fans bother him a lot.  He hates fan outcry in most forms.  Vinny said even if Dan himself doesn't spot it -- Dan's family does. 

 

Vinny says that because he blames fan outcry for him being fired instead of his ****ty track record. That way he gets to rationalize that Dan's sensitivity to "fan backlash" is the only reason he lost his job.

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18 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Yeah, I think McShay having "influence" is hyperbole.  I HIGHLY doubt Urban Meyer's future will be based, in any way, shape, form, or fashion on McShay's opinion.  Of ALL the people Meyer knows in the football world, I dont think that one carries as much weight as that writer would have you believe.  He makes it sound like he's Meyer's right hand man.  lol  

 

Not to mention, I dont doubt a ton of people feel the same as McShay, why would any candidate listen to him specifically?

 

I get your point.  I think it all piles on with McShay being part of the pile as being the be all and end all.     I see McShay similar to guys like Schrager on GMF.  By the nature of their jobs they talk to a lot of people in the business and they all spread and share gossip.  

 

I am in a public type business where we got similar dynamics.  I know a lot of people.  If I share what I know or have heard about working in a particular place, people aren't going to stop in their tracks for what I say.  But if I for example know first hand or have heard from people I know a potential client is a psycho and I am asked about it by a colleague, I'll tell him that.  And yeah I've seen it make a difference.  Conversely, its made a difference for me when I hear things from others I trust. 

 

It doesn't help Dan that he has multiple people piling on that its a crap show to work there. McShay wouldn't be the be all and end all.  But he does some college game day work with Meyer so I bet he knows him well enough.  And if he tells Meyer hey 5 people I've talked to who have worked at Redskins Park said its a crap show -- I think it likely would have some weight.

 

I am not a coach but I take on clients and make decisions on which clients to work for.   And I don't accept every job.  If a colleague warned me off on someone, I'd listen.  I haven't taken some jobs based on that type of thing.  So with Dan when you got Shanny and I presume Scot and Lafemina and a series of people willing to crap on him behind the scenes -- I don't think it helps Dan to have others pile on to that. 

 

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Vinny says that because he blames fan outcry for him being fired instead of his ****ty track record. That way he gets to rationalize that Dan's sensitivity to "fan backlash" is the only reason he lost his job.

 

Maybe but how can you be confident you know Vinny's motivations?  

 

With how Dan operates, I've heard different stories. And I match those stories to how he's operated.   I make a conclusion based on that.  That's the best I can do.

 

Someone else can make their own conclusion.  For each it's a guess. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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What would anybody's opinion be on this possible structure?  Have been seeing some twitter "lean" on this type of structure.

 

EVP - Doug Williams

GM - Kyle Smith

HC - Bieniemy

 

 

Edited by HigSkin

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42 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

What would anybody's opinion be on this possible structure?  Have been seeing some twitter "lean" on this type of structure.

 

EVP - Doug Williams

GM - Kyle Smith

HC - Bieniemy

 

Awful just due to Doug Williams, the ultimate unqualified yes man. Would prove nothing is actually changing. A real candidate in that top FO spot and the other two I wouldn't mind. Doug is a dealbreaker for me. 

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No doubt the Dolphins played a fantastic hand on the Tunsil trade.

 

Slight negative context for me on the 3 picks in the top 23 being the trade away of Minkah. I mean, the Steelers are damn happy with that outcome. 

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Seeing Grant Paulsen advocate for the dumpster fires that are the Dolphins and Jags reminds me of @BatteredFanSyndrome telling us all offseason about how the Browns were “doing things the right way”.

 

And I will say this about the Phins and Jags...they haven’t won anything at all in almost 50 years, or ever, but their fans don’t boycott because hot-take radio guys tell them to.  So they have that going for them!

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16 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Seeing Grant Paulsen advocate for the dumpster fires that are the Dolphins and Jags reminds me of @BatteredFanSyndrome telling us all offseason about how the Browns were “doing things the right way”.


Grant is a chode with a face made for radio and a voice made for newspaper. He’s still upset Cousins is gone, I mean... what radio DJ has an end-of-year presser for a QB? As hopeless as I feel about this team, they make their bread and butter on the team being bad.

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20 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

 

And I will say this about the Phins and Jags...they haven’t won anything at all in almost 50 years, or ever, but their fans don’t boycott because hot-take radio guys tell them to.  So they have that going for them!

How can a Jags fan base boycott them..they have a pool in their stadium...I mean c'mon...swim, drink  and watch football? That's EPIC.

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12 minutes ago, Xameil said:

How can a Jags fan base boycott them..they have a pool in their stadium...I mean c'mon...swim, drink  and watch football? That's EPIC.

 

Thats a fair point.

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39 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Seeing Grant Paulsen advocate for the dumpster fires that are the Dolphins and Jags reminds me of @BatteredFanSyndrome telling us all offseason about how the Browns were “doing things the right way”.

 

And I will say this about the Phins and Jags...they haven’t won anything at all in almost 50 years, or ever, but their fans don’t boycott because hot-take radio guys tell them to.  So they have that going for them!

 

Your schtick is incredibly tiresome and lacks any real substance. 

 

In terms of gathering talent, the Browns are doing it the right way.  Unfortunately, you can take a worse approach and still fall short because winning in the NFL is hard.  And that brings me to the real point...

 

Our fanbase can handle losing.  The backlash is not a response to just being stuck in the bottom of the standings.  End of the day, this is a die hard group that has typically been an intelligent following.  What we can't handle is an organization that approaches an already incredibly difficult task of winning in the NFL by handicapping itself at every turn, refusing to acknowledge mistakes along the way, all while being utterly unlikable, tone deaf, and arrogant to boot.  All while creating the worst game day experience in the league. Those of us that love the franchise simply cannot stomach watching it devolve into the pile of ruins we are witnessing.  

 

Again, if it were just losing we could handle it, if only we at least did business the right way.

 

Your inability to see and understand that fact is why you're part of the problem.

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10 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Your schtick is incredibly tiresome and lacks any real substance. 

 

In terms of gathering talent, the Browns are doing it the right way.  Unfortunately, you can take a worse approach and still fall short because winning in the NFL is hard.  And that brings me to the real point...

 

Our fanbase can handle losing.  The backlash is not a response to just being stuck in the bottom of the standings.  End of the day, this is a die hard group that has typically been an intelligent following.  What we can't handle is an organization that approaches an already incredibly difficult task of winning in the NFL by handicapping itself at every turn, refusing to acknowledge mistakes along the way, all while being utterly unlikable, tone deaf, and arrogant to boot.  All while creating the worst game day experience in the league. Those of us that love the franchise simply cannot stomach watching it devolve into the pile of ruins we are witnessing.  

 

Again, if it were just losing we could handle it, if only we at least did business the right way.

 

Your inability to see and understand that fact is why you're part of the problem.

 

Boycott me.  It’s what your good at.

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19 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Your schtick is incredibly tiresome and lacks any real substance. 

 

In terms of gathering talent, the Browns are doing it the right way.  Unfortunately, you can take a worse approach and still fall short because winning in the NFL is hard.  And that brings me to the real point...

 

 

 

Agreed.  The trick with the Browns was, you have to finish it all the way through.  They're only about halfway through. They basically messed up a promising thing picking the wrong coach.  Replacing Jackson with Kitchens short circuited whatever they were trying to do.  And they still will probably be 7-9, 2 years after 0-16. 

 

The expectations got out of hand so people now wanna go too far in the opposite direction that their plan was a failure.  They're still positioned well for the future, albeit with some adjustments.

Edited by justice98
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8 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Agreed.  The trick with the Browns was, you have to finish it all the way through.  They're only about halfway through. They basically messed up a promising thing picking the wrong coach.  Replacing Jackson with Kitchens short circuited whatever they were trying to do.  And they still will probably be 7-9, 2 years after 0-16. 

 

The expectations got out of hand so people now wanna go too far in the opposite direction that their plan was a failure.  They're still positioned well for the future, albeit with some adjustments.


Or that Baker Mayfield is arguably the worst starting QB in 2019. 

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1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

And I will say this about the Phins and Jags...they haven’t won anything at all in almost 50 years, or ever, but their fans don’t boycott because hot-take radio guys tell them to.  So they have that going for them!

 

Are you serious with this? Keep licking Snyder's boots, I guess. Yeah, the fanbase is in revolt because of...radio guys. Not the team. Okay.

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It sickens my stomach to see Bruce Allen on the field with the Redskins.  We as fans can only HOPE that Snyder does the right thing. 

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Cleveland ruined their upward trajectory when they decided on Kitchens over Gregg Williams, and traded for OBJ. 
 

Jax Somewhat ruined their promising future by removing a team president who traded a guy who didn’t want to be in Jax and wanted a new contract for 2 1sts and a 4th, found a possible starting qb late in the draft, and a no.1 wr out of nowhere. Sure Foles was a bad move. But that team isn’t as bad off as it seems. They made a foolish move to fire coughlin, and will soon make another by removing Marrone.
 

Miami is trash until further notice. That have no real pieces left on the roster, and are not anywhere close to playoff contention. By the time they might be, their rivals will have already reloaded. 
 

Yes we should have traded Trent to Houston. But I’m not about to put us down there with the ultimate dregs until I know for certain the status of Bruce Allen’s tenure in dc. 

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34 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Cleveland ruined their upward trajectory when they decided on Kitchens over Gregg Williams, and traded for OBJ. 
 

Jax Somewhat ruined their promising future by removing a team president who traded a guy who didn’t want to be in Jax and wanted a new contract for 2 1sts and a 4th, found a possible starting qb late in the draft, and a no.1 wr out of nowhere. Sure Foles was a bad move. But that team isn’t as bad off as it seems. They made a foolish move to fire coughlin, and will soon make another by removing Marrone.
 

Miami is trash until further notice. That have no real pieces left on the roster, and are not anywhere close to playoff contention. By the time they might be, their rivals will have already reloaded. 
 

Yes we should have traded Trent to Houston. But I’m not about to put us down there with the ultimate dregs until I know for certain the status of Bruce Allen’s tenure in dc. 

 

Greggggg would have been a trash hire, too.  

 

LOL at firing Furher Coughlin in 2020 being a foolish move.  That's rich.  I mean if there's one single person in the league who rivals Bruce for being out of touch with the game, it's gotta be him.

 

Look, there's no telling if a rebuild like Miami or Cleveland actually will pan out.  They have to draft well, hire well, AND find some luck along the way.  At least they are TRYING though.  The more high picks you have, the better the odds.  Those franchises gave themselves an honest assesment and are attempting to rebuild from the ground up.  When have we ever done anything remotely close to that?

 

Again, most of us can stomach losing, so long as an honest and coordinated approach is being attempted.  

 

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