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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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Ok so there is or isn't communication going on?..I'm confused...well either way .all Hail..15-1!

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3 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Pretty sure he'll welcome that as a big relief...

 

Absolutely.  Jay is no Jim Zorn.  He had success before the Redskins, in fact he's had relative success here, given how bad the situation is.

 

When Jay is fired he will easily get an OC job, and he'll have a decent chance at a HC job either immediately or within a couple years.  If I were him I'd already be counting down the days until week 17.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

Ok so there is or isn't communication going on?..I'm confused...well either way .all Hail..15-1!

 

No way to know.  The only thing that seems clear is Jay is frustrated with FA and his voice or lack thereof in it.  This narrative isn't any different than what Russell said last year as to Jay and FA.

 

You got three different spins on it judging by 106.7.

 

Junkies -- Jay was informed by a text from the media about the Collins signing.  He's generally not happy with his say or lack thereof in FA and he thinks this team has so many holes yet to fill.

 

Paulsen:  he thinks Jay was likely aware of Collins as a potential signing so he doesn't think its that player specifically which rubs him wrong but its that his influence in the FO has diminished so it feels like lame duck status for Jay

 

Hoffman:  thinks Jay is cool with Collins but is likely frustrated by the lack of movement to upgrade the offense and if anything its worse with the loss of Crowder.  He thinks its likely they had a target or two of a player that could help the offense.   And it didn't go down.  And in a win or else season he's not loving the set up right now. 

 

The common theme with all three narratives is Jay being concerned about the team's holes and doesn't seem to think they've done a hot job at filling them.   If all of this is true, I got a theory about one player, Cole Beasley.  Keim who tends to be very careful to throw out players and is rarely wrong when he does said before FA that they have interest in him.  Recently, Keim said he was surprised based on what he heard nothing ever happened on that front.

 

For me personally, it seemed obvious that Jay is a lame duck coach anyway.  So the lame duck narrative doesn't faze me.   As for how things operate as to that FO, I've thought its screwed up the whole time so that angle doesn't faze me either.  Heck even if I bought Bruce's version that he seems to want to peddle -- I'd still think its screwed up.  So I am not emotionally moved by any of it.  Same old same old to me.

 

There are two major things I like about Bruce's regime compared to the past.  1.  Their college scouting operation is good and they don't throw away their draft picks.  2.  Not overspending where they create dead money in future years for veterans.   For these 2 reasons, I think they can continue their mediocre run versus being a bad team.  If the rest of their operation was good they could be a SB contender but alas I don't think that's even remotely the case.     My hope is one day they'd let Kyle Smith run the whole thing.  Because if they can run their pro scouting like college scouting -- they can go places.  But if they don't make a move like that IMO they will continue to get in their own way.

 

I don't think running a football operation has to be so complicated.  IMO put a football guy in charge.  You don't make decisions by committee.  You have scouts and people who make recommendations but the football guy makes the final call.  You don't put a politician or your best friend to have final say who are unqualified and pass the buck or scapegoat others if things go awry.  Put a guy like Ballard, Dorsey, etc in charge and stay out of their way and let them sink or swim. 

 

Ironically, years ago we touted Ballard here and said it looks like a strong hire.  He's the toast of the town in the NFL these days.  And heck he even had a short bumpy ride in making it happen.  Would he have survived a bumpy ride here?    Then it was Dorsey.  He's the toast of the town.   It's befuddling to me that it might be escaping Dan why the last main buzz hire he got was for Scot.  People didn't know Scot but they knew what he represented which was a personnel guy with a reputation of being among the best at what he does.  When they let Scot go (and I get why they did so I got no issue with it) and they reverted back to same old same old operation -- don't get why the FO is so surprised that fans are jaded about it.

 

Heck lets run with the homer narrative here -- that Bruce is good at what he does or is at least OK at it and Dan has changed and people are stuck in the past and fooled by an overreaching media -- even if this is all so for people to buy in these guys really have to win.  They haven't earned the benefit of the doubt.  It can't be mediocrity with excuses for it.  That's not enough IMO.  If you are going back to a restaurant that you previously didn't like with the exact some chef -- you are going to be skeptical.   And if you are going for a repeat meal their then the food better be really good to go a 180 as to your opinion.  It can't be wow the food isn't hot but its still better than it used to be.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

Ok so there is or isn't communication going on?..I'm confused...well either way .all Hail..15-1!

 

My own personal guess...

 

As Hoffman indicated, Gruden is absolutely involved in the personnel meetings and helped created the Free Agency board that helps dictate who the Skins go after. I would find it incredibly difficult to believe Gruden isn't involved in any of that and just kicks an empty soda can down a vacant hallway while everyone else is in meetings, occasionally peeking his head in to rooms and saying "You guys still going at it, huh...ok, well, I'm here if you need any help" lol...but once the plan is in place, Bruce goes into stealth mode because he abhors leaks and having deals enter the twitterverse before they're finished, and does all his trade talks and agent contacting without telling anyone else in the organiztion (outside of Dan) hes doing it. They find out after it's done. But he doesn't go after guys that weren't agreed to beforehand.


Again, just my guess...i have no idea if it's accurate or not.

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This thread is proof that most didn't believe Jay has much input in roster moves. I don't know what "breaking news" WJFK thought they had. ES could have told them this years ago.

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2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yes, because the Junkies have so much to gain for passing this along.  

 

Media-savvy!!

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Gruden isn't that far out of the picture. He'll know what's going on.

 

He specifically said pre combine that we had major needs at safety and ILB. Next thing we are all over Collins and Mosley. Keenum, can't tell me Jay isn't providing some input to that. It's an obvious fit.

 

However, if by slight chance Gruden isn't in the loop, then bigger fool him. He is in a position of authority to find out and should be actively making it his business to do so.

 

Otherwise, to me he's almost willingly staying at arms length. Just my take on it.

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2 hours ago, CaptainJames2004 said:

Well can we please get this crap sorted out by the draft so that we can have a solid game-plan and actually know who our QB is going to be before Week 1?? This is getting hairy.

 Jays going to suit up - he always said he was a NFL caliber starting QB ... 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

My own personal guess...

 

As Hoffman indicated, Gruden is absolutely involved in the personnel meetings and helped created the Free Agency board that helps dictate who the Skins go after. I would find it incredibly difficult to believe Gruden isn't involved in any of that and just kicks an empty soda can down a vacant hallway while everyone else is in meetings, occasionally peeking his head in to rooms and saying "You guys still going at it, huh...ok, well, I'm here if you need any help" lol...but once the plan is in place, Bruce goes into stealth mode because he abhors leaks and having deals enter the twitterverse before they're finished, and does all his trade talks and agent contacting without telling anyone else in the organiztion (outside of Dan) hes doing it. They find out after it's done. But he doesn't go after guys that weren't agreed to beforehand.


Again, just my guess...i have no idea if it's accurate or not.

 

I'd guess its a mix of Paulsen and Hoffman's narrative which is Jay has a voice but he's not the main dude calling the shots and is frustrated by the big picture.  The big picture being how far along are they are filling their holes in supposedly a must win season. 

 

 I am fine with that style decision making if the structure was normal or they owned up to whatever they got cooking,  If you have a strong GM personnel type they should have the final say not the HC and they should set the overall direction not the HC.  But if you are going to pull the we make decisions by committee and include Jay in that mix -- then you'd wonder about anyone's voice being diminished especially when the guy who has the final say power wise is arguably not even a real personnel guy.   And Bruce's media tour seemed to partly be about downplaying his role in decision making. 

 

So we can say much ado about nothing.  And in a sense that's true.  But to me its another case of exposing the weirdness of their FO structure.  If they had a strong GM-personnel wiz at the helm, I doubt it would even be a story.   But a FO run by Bruce?  Then it compels people to think who do you trust to make football decisions -- the dude that Mike Lombardi said they wouldn't even have in the room when they made personnel calls in Oakland -- or the guy who has been around football his whole life who some have said is really sharp with personnel.  Jay's father once being a scout. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd guess its a mix of Paulsen and Hoffman's narrative which is Jay has a voice but he's not the main dude calling the shots and is frustrated by the big picture.  The big picture being how far along are they are filling their holes in supposedly a must win season.

1

 

To me, this is spot on in terms of frustrations that Jay has (or is reported to have lol)...I was thinking this same thing. As well as (just my opinion here), when the injuries started mounting Jay could have been thinking about past personnel decisions he didn't have much say-so in that are now biting him and the team in the ass..."had you signed who I wanted he wouldn't have been injured"..."had you not drafted the guy you didn't listen to me on we wouldn't be having issues with our special teams depth", or whatever.

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11 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

To me, this is spot on in terms of frustrations that Jay has (or is reported to have lol)...I was thinking this same thing. As well as (just my opinion here), when the injuries started mounting Jay could have been thinking about past personnel decisions he didn't have much say-so in that are now biting him and the team in the ass..."had you signed who I wanted he wouldn't have been injured"..."had you not drafted the guy you didn't listen to me on we wouldn't be having issues with our special teams depth", or whatever.

 

I just imagine, "Hey, remember when you called their agent and signed them, and then called me?  Yeah, let's reverse that next and all times.  Kthxbye"

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Wouldn't surprise me if this was true.  Also, wouldn't surprise me if Jay said that to ease any backlash that he knows is coming this season to save whatever face he has left.  We all know what's going to happen.  We're going to have the same mediocre season we've had the past few seasons.  We're going to miss the playoffs.  After this year the coaching staff will be fire, but Bruce will stay.  It's just going to be rinse and repeat.  

 

I do like Gruden and I agree he'll get, at the very least, an OC job right out of the gate.  In the right situation I think he'll find success as a head coach.

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I hope Gruden writes a book some day about the dysfunction he experienced here as Head Coach.  He has made bad decisions too but not as many bad decisions as the Prince of Darkness.

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As others have said, I assume Jay knew the plan for FA and that Collins was a target.  This is more Bruce not calling or sending Jay a text "Hey we got Collins" once the deal was agreed too.  Maybe Bruce likes to communicate to Jay by carrier pigeon, I don't know, but it would annoy me too if I'm the HC and I find out by getting a text from my wife's uncle's nephew who read it on twitter.  

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

To me, this is spot on in terms of frustrations that Jay has (or is reported to have lol)...I was thinking this same thing. As well as (just my opinion here), when the injuries started mounting Jay could have been thinking about past personnel decisions he didn't have much say-so in that are now biting him and the team in the ass..."had you signed who I wanted he wouldn't have been injured"..."had you not drafted the guy you didn't listen to me on we wouldn't be having issues with our special teams depth", or whatever.

 

Hoffman seems to speculate that it could extend through today on two fronts:

 

A.  Worried about the offense and if anything its looking weaker thus far than last year

B.  There might have been a FA or two that they didn't pursue or got outbid for that he thinks could help

 

It's just guessing by all of us.  But my guess (that seems intuitive to me) is that Jay was genuinely frustrated.  The Junkies don't break a lot of stories but they've been fairly accurate when they do.  They were the ones for example that first hinted at the severity of Alex's injury.  Jay's frustration though driven by the current state of the offense.  Arguably they were did in last year in part by the O line and receiver and both spots thus far have only been weakened some more as opposed to strengthened.  So he voiced some temporary frustration about it.  And maybe said something like he wanted such and such player and they didn't make it happen so if they are going to ride with the roster as is he will be blamed but he shouldn't be.    Or something like that.  That's my guess-- theory.

 

I'll say though the same thing as I do every off season, I'll judge it when its done.  So for Jay being frustrated about the status quo on offense (if its true) there is still time to fix it.  But if they don't make a move for a veteran it forces you to draft towards need -- assuming you are in a must win season. 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)

Can we change this thread name please due to Bruce Allen and GM being put together in a sentence is a joke. 

 

How about 

 

Bruce the Useless **** 

Bruce Allen the GM 😂😂😂😂😂

Bruce Allen flower Arranger

Bruce Allen's coffee morning

Bake a Cake with Bruce 

 

HTTR 

Edited by markmills67
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Gruden will be pissed that we lost Crowder, just like he was when we lost DJax. No doubt we need a receiver in, not sure Brian Quick will keep the wolf from the door. 

 

Could yet see that trade for a WR after all.

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5 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Just realised 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

HTTR 

 

You may need to delete the gif, by the way...TK mentioned something about rule 11, which I had to look up lol...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

To me, this is spot on in terms of frustrations that Jay has (or is reported to have lol)...I was thinking this same thing. As well as (just my opinion here), when the injuries started mounting Jay could have been thinking about past personnel decisions he didn't have much say-so in that are now biting him and the team in the ass..."had you signed who I wanted he wouldn't have been injured"..."had you not drafted the guy you didn't listen to me on we wouldn't be having issues with our special teams depth", or whatever.

I'm sure he's happy about our new monster LG we just signed!

 

1 hour ago, A Skinhead in Saints Land said:

Wouldn't surprise me if this was true.  Also, wouldn't surprise me if Jay said that to ease any backlash that he knows is coming this season to save whatever face he has left.  We all know what's going to happen.  We're going to have the same mediocre season we've had the past few seasons.  We're going to miss the playoffs.  After this year the coaching staff will be fire, but Bruce will stay.  It's just going to be rinse and repeat.  

 

I do like Gruden and I agree he'll get, at the very least, an OC job right out of the gate.  In the right situation I think he'll find success as a head coach.

Hell yeah, we all know how it's gonna end up.

Lauvao will get hurt in week 2 of the preseason, we'll run some scrub at LG for a few weeks.

Our running game will never take off and Giuce will be hurt by week 3 of the season.

At this point we'll be 0-4 and Jay will get canned as well as O'Connell.

Ryan will be our Interim HC which won't go along with Horton and Manusky.

Case Keenum injured on week 6

Colt McCoy on Week 8.

But at this point FedEx Field will be a foreign place for Redskins fans as it'll be filled by 80% of the visiting team...

 

43 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Can we change this thread name please due to Bruce Allen and GM being put together in a sentence is a joke. 

 

 

Bake a Cake with Bruce 

 

HTTR 

My 5 years old daughter is better at baking cakes than Bruce is, so I wouldn't trust him on that department either...

Edited by Wildbunny

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32 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You may need to delete the gif, by the way...TK mentioned something about rule 11, which I had to look up lol...

Don't know how to mate. 

 

HTTR 

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Would anyone here seriously be surprised if that was the case?  We've known for some time communication in the building is terrible, and the wrong people often just make the personnel decisions without input from those who really matter.  This isnt really news, just some kind of confirmation for some.

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