Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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50 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

It is beyond comprehension for me that an owner that’s been around for two decades seeing everything that we’re seeing + some, can legitimately fall for the narrative that they are just victims of bad luck, poor officiating, you name it.  

 

 

 

I am guessing though the 6-3 narrative is the gravy point so even if he's skeptical on that front it might not be the main plot.  And while I am one of Jay's general defenders on the board I do think he's as central to convincing Dan of the 6-3 narrative as Bruce is -- heard Jay already talk about it twice publicly about how they are as good as anyone and they are real close.  And I genuinely think Jay believes they will be fine with Colt.  But like I said, we'd all do the same in Jay's shoes if we want to keep our job and its up to Dan to figure it out.

 

But agree with your point.  The 6-3 point is silly anyway you cut it.  If its purely about Alex, then they really went 6-4 and were lucky they didn't go 5-5.  Tampa a bad team dominated that game statistically -- they missed multiple field goals and turned over the ball 4 times mostly in the red zone.   If its they will be just as good with Colt -- well, Colt looked same old same old against Dallas and they lost and he fed into the idea that he's made of glass in the next game.   The only team that lost more games than the Redskins by 24 points plus was the Cardinals last year.

 

My point of view on it is that I think are so wrong in overestimating their roster that its my main bent for thinking the Tank for Tua or something close to that is coming along with sweeping out the current band.  Feels like a ship that thinks its nowhere near the iceberg while I think they are on a direct collusion course to one.  And Dan will be stunned-shocked.

 

I am guessing the main plot with Dan is the stadium.  I just listened to Liz Clark on Sheehan's podcast and if her version of events is correct, wow, they are up the creek then on the stadium.  She actually doesn't think they get a stadium in the end anywhere -- where Dan is forced to either pay for one completely himself or they stay at Fedex.   Short version of what she learned:  Bruce-Dan strangely procrastinated on moving on the land in DC and getting Congress to approve rezoning it.  They put all their marbles with the Republicans.  They weren't prepared for them losing Congress.  So they scrambled at the 11th hour to get it in the final Congressional budget which isn't happening now.   

 

And Dan-Bruce's reputation make it difficult for enough elected officials to go to bat and try to sell their constituents and or their colleagues to help.  And that they are essentially at square one.  Even the Maryland National Harbor idea still needs federal-Congressional approval and you have plenty in Capital hill who are unlikely wanted to do Dan a favor for various reasons.  She got into it with Loverro who also doesn't think it happens but if it does it won't be in DC but Maryland.  Loverro said that when the Orioles got Camden Yard it was on the ropes initially but the owner, Bennett, was a charismatic dude who made an impassioned speech in front of the legislature -- and that's not Dan's thing,

 

Even if just half of what she said is true.  Dan is probably in a panic because it's not looking good.  Liz joked that Bruce is probably telling Dan hey i got this under control no sweat like he did with the Kirk contract but she's hearing behind the scenes its not going well.  Listening to her I get which she and Brewer among others think the stadium is what's keeping Bruce's job security.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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18 minutes ago, Pwyl said:

If I remember  correctly, Vinnie was given a similar expansion of responsibilities  the year before he was canned.  

 

I think it was the year before his last one.  It was if I recall for the start of the Zorn tenure.   Eventually, Dan gave in when it hit epic levels of fan discontentment.   We can argue its the case now -- and i agree it is on many fronts.  But the one thing that went down in 2009 that hasn't happened yet are people bringing signs to the stadium.  The firebruce campaign really took off right at the end of the season.  in 2009 it was there for a good chunk of that season - I think that's going down in 2019.  

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39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think it was the year before his last one.  It was if I recall for the start of the Zorn tenure.   Eventually, Dan gave in when it hit epic levels of fan discontentment.   We can argue its the case now -- and i agree it is on many fronts.  But the one thing that went down in 2009 that hasn't happened yet are people bringing signs to the stadium.  The firebruce campaign really took off right at the end of the season.  in 2009 it was there for a good chunk of that season - I think that's going down in 2019.  

I don’t think so.

back then the stadium was full. 

 

There wont be anyone at the stadium next year to bring signs. 

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39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think it was the year before his last one.  It was if I recall for the start of the Zorn tenure.   Eventually, Dan gave in when it hit epic levels of fan discontentment.   We can argue its the case now -- and i agree it is on many fronts.  But the one thing that went down in 2009 that hasn't happened yet are people bringing signs to the stadium.  The firebruce campaign really took off right at the end of the season.  in 2009 it was there for a good chunk of that season - I think that's going down in 2019.  

I don’t think so.

back then the stadium was full. 

 

There wont be anyone at the stadium next year to bring signs. 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

  They put all their marbles with the Republicans.  They weren't prepared for them losing Congress. 

 

If this is true they’re both even more incompetent than I previously thought. It was a well known fact well before the election that Dems would win the House. 

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10 minutes ago, tshile said:

I don’t think so.

back then the stadium was full. 

 

There wont be anyone at the stadium next year to bring signs. 

 

Well, if literally no one showed up to the stadium we'd be a story world-wide let alone nationally. Obviously, that's not happening.

 

 

I was just listening to Russell who has almost perfectly nailed everything as to the FO for multiple years now including out-scooping beat guys and the WP reporters and I get that sounds crazy for those remembering his man crush on Haslett and getting the Cowher rumor wrong years back.

 

He's been saying for weeks Bruce is coming back including back towards the end of the season.   Only thing he seems like he might end up wrong is the rumor that they will add an additional person to the FO.  If that's going down, it clearly hasn't happened yet.

 

His take is Bruce was indeed on the ropes but saved himself in part with the injury excuse and that Jax win helped the cause, too.  But his vibe isn't that Bruce will be king forever.  So likely one and done if 2019 goes awry.  He says Jay and Kyle Smith have become tight and see football the same way and heard from someone Jay would prefer that Kyle and not Bruce run the football operations.  He says he knows that Jay puts up with a lot of garbage but he's not going to quit with a my way or the highway decree considering all the money he'd give up -- nor should he.  Russell is of the belief that Jay doesn't hold Bruce in a high regard as for his football acumen but he doesn't dislike him personally.

 

I admit I do have a predilection for Russell's take because it dovetails with mine which is Dan and Bruce are both problems and they bring out the worst in each other.  Getting rid of Bruce may help the bottom line.   But looks like we got to wait.  But the tweet below is my hope for now.  I do hope they do nothing in FA or Bruce's typical bargain basement stuff.   Don't trade for Antonio Brown.

 

 

I am holding on to this but disagree with their thought that its intentional -- i think it might happen but unintentionally 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, dyst said:

Makes no sense. Dan won’t sell, but hopefully he will move the team. Can the DMV force him to leave? 

Actually i can see this happening. If we, the fans continue to show little to no  interest in the team, revenue keeps sliding and what we had as a battle between dc md and va slowly drops to no contenders then it could be a Mark Davis and the Raiders thing. 

 

With the Amazon thing it seems like va is out of it. Now it's between national harbor and rfk. And i like those options but i can see the problems with them both from a funding standpoint. 

 

And let's be real, the number one reason that fans leave is because of stadiums. 

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4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Actually i can see this happening. If we, the fans continue to show little to no  interest in the team, revenue keeps sliding and what we had as a battle between dc md and va slowly drops to no contenders then it could be a Mark Davis and the Raiders thing. 

 

With the Amazon thing it seems like va is out of it. Now it's between national harbor and rfk. And i like those options but i can see the problems with them both from a funding standpoint. 

 

And let's be real, the number one reason that fans leave is because of stadiums. 

 

If you listen to Liz Clark on Sheehan's podcast that narrative adds fuel to the fire because it never occurred to me that no one might give Dan a stadium but it seems like that's what she thinks will happen.  Ditto Loverro.  

 

So it never hit me that there is an option D

 

A. DC

B. Maryland

C. VA

D. No one

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He says Jay and Kyle Smith have become tight and see football the same way and heard from someone Jay would prefer that Kyle and not Bruce run the football operations.  He says he knows that Jay puts up with a lot of garbage but he's not going to quit with a my way or the highway decree considering all the money he'd give up -- nor should he. 

 

I actually like this. I'm not the biggest Kyle Smith fan. I like him more than a lot of other guys and probably more than Sch but he hasn't been knocking them out of the park so far. But what's the most frustrating about this team is the seemingly lack of structure and consequences. I've been ok with not knowing how things work inside as long as they do. But the Foster, Foster, DJ, ZB situations just made me question a lot, then the letting go of the business side of things. Smdh

 

 

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you listen to Liz Clark on Sheehan's podcast that narrative adds fuel to the fire because it never occurred to me that no one might give Dan a stadium but it seems like that's what she thinks will happen.  Ditto Loverro.  

I'm glad you still listen to that stuff because I had to tune it out to keep my sanity and my blood pressure down. I even have to only take this site in small doses now. 

 

But it's really sad when a fan base wants no team or an expansion franchise over a Snyder owned team. 

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12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you listen to Liz Clark on Sheehan's podcast that narrative adds fuel to the fire because it never occurred to me that no one might give Dan a stadium but it seems like that's what she thinks will happen.  Ditto Loverro.  

 

So it never hit me that there is an option D

 

A. DC

B. Maryland

C. VA

D. No one

 

I think it's even more mind-blowing for Snyder.  This guy has gotten everything he wants, always.  I'm 34 now, and I couldn't imagine what it would be like to own my favorite team.  Snyder could, somehow got together $800M, and has never heard the word "no" in his life.  For no one to give him something he wants has to be an existential threat in his world.

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2 hours ago, tshile said:

I don’t think so.

back then the stadium was full. 

 

There wont be anyone at the stadium next year to bring signs. 

Having no one in the stadium or so few, is a sign by itself.

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1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I actually like this. I'm not the biggest Kyle Smith fan. I like him more than a lot of other guys and probably more than Sch but he hasn't been knocking them out of the park so far. But what's the most frustrating about this team is the seemingly lack of structure and consequences. I've been ok with not knowing how things work inside as long as they do. But the Foster, Foster, DJ, ZB situations just made me question a lot, then the letting go of the business side of things. Smdh

 

 

 

You've been one of the more optimistic people in recent years about where things are going and I get that is not so right now.  In an odd way, I might be one of the more optimistic people now.  And its not that I feel good about anything.  It's actually the fact that I think things are abysmal is where my optimism stems from.   The enemy of progress is often being stuck in a middle of the road kind of stagnation where you have just enough success to tease yourself that you are close to reaching your goals even though you are nowhere near your destination spot.  And to me that's been one of the most frustrating aspects of what's happened in recent years.   And I think its fed the egos at Redskins Park. 

 

But right now with all of this cooking, I think its the perfect storm for mediocre to turn bad.  Fans are very upset.   Bruce I think is on the edge where I don't think he has an excuse if it goes bad in 2019.   And I don't see this anymore as an 8-8 or better roster.  To me right now its looking like 4-12 or maybe 5-11 with the disclaimer that FA or trades might change my mind. 

 

And my favorite narrative to save this team from Dan is just pure dumb luck.  Clinton Portis who is pals with Dan thinks his worst luck is never being in position in the draft to take QBs who seem like bonafide franchise QBs.  I agree that's hurt the franchise.  Also, we've had the bad luck that Dan's best buddies happen to be bad culture guys too just like him.  So hoping we have the good luck that Dan's new best buddy is a good dude -- and I've heard enough good things to make me think that's likely the case with Schaffer and Kyle.

 

For example I share all the vitriol in the article below but I think its all going to crash in 2019 and Dan ultimately does something about Bruce -- if he sells better yet but that I think is likely a reach -- but if its him being embarrassed and humiliated maybe something good comes from it.  Or maybe not.  But I am not bailing on the team so its the best I can hope for.  I do think Kyle is a bit overrated -- his drafts have been good not great IMO but I'd still take it and more importantly than that I want a football guy in charge of football.

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/shan-shariff-dan-snyder-and-bruce-allen-are-cowards-who-hide-weasels

 

Shariff, formerly of 106.7 The Fan and currently a host for 105.3 The Fan in Dallas, pointed the finger at Redskins management for the team's current predicament and called Snyder and Allen cowards for not speaking to the fans and media. 

"For Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder to hide like weasels, like little snakes, just squirming away from the situation," Shariff said. "I was glad that they got hit with the attendance problem this year, I hope it continues to get worse where Dan feels like he has no other choice but to sell."

"But to run like a bunch of spineless jellyfish, like a bunch of little 'words you can't say on the radio.' Like, man up, dude. You wanna sit there and you wanna embarrass the entire District? You wanna sit there and you wanna force fans to give up their fandom? And then you're too scared, too much of a little wuss to stand in front of a microphone and address it and at least explain yourself? That's cowardly. Those are two little cowards," Shariff said. 

Allen, who heads football operations for the team, has gone over 577 days without taking questions from the media, the longest active streak of silence for any NFL general manager, per The Washington Post.

Friday it was revealed Allen would remain in his position as team president and would also assume control over the franchise's business side. Shariff had a familiar explanation for how Allen has remained in his position for so long. 

"You all should investigate what type of pictures Bruce Allen has on Dan Snyder, 'cause there's some deep dark secret between those two. That's the only explanation for this," Shariff said.

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51 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Just checking in.  The Douche still in charge?

In case you read the previous posts and also for your health  ;)

 

When_b4be64_2962975.gif

Edited by FrFan
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26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But right now with all of this cooking, I think its the perfect storm for mediocre to turn bad.  Fans are very upset.   Bruce I think is on the edge where I don't think he has an excuse if it goes bad in 2019.   And I don't see this anymore as an 8-8 or better roster.  To me right now its looking like 4-12 or maybe 5-11 with the disclaimer that FA or trades might change my mind. 

That's the thing. I don't think we're a 3-13 bad type team. We're a team that's stuck in win now so we're going to keep trading chips for the future to have a 8-8 season. We're going to address all our holes this off-season, but instead of just letting the chips fall and building a good team for the next 5-10 years, we're going to trade a lot for somebody or sign a big contract or just go all in again.

 

To me that's been Dan's biggest problem. He doesn't know how to hedge his bets. He went all in on the 2000 roster. Went all in on Campbell, went all in on MnNabb, all in on Haynesworth, all in on a bunch of older vets like the DE from Miami. All in on Alex Smith (after doing what I thought was wise with not going all in on Kirk). 

 

The current strategy of going all in on the draft is ok because even if we're not getting D. Lawrence and the all pro guys, it's setting up our roster with depth and special teams improves. But do we have the patience? And are we going to notice when a guys got talent in practice and needs more playing time? I was very disappointed with how we used our rookies, both the players we got and how we played them. And unfortunately i see us abandoning that system soon and going all in on a vet CB or S or ILB or WR or Lord help us if we trade for Flacco, Foles, Hasselbeck, or Bortles. But that's the kind of move we'll make because developing players is not our real strategy yet. 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But right now with all of this cooking, I think its the perfect storm for mediocre to turn bad.  Fans are very upset.   Bruce I think is on the edge where I don't think he has an excuse if it goes bad in 2019.   And I don't see this anymore as an 8-8 or better roster.  To me right now its looking like 4-12 or maybe 5-11 with the disclaimer that FA or trades might change my mind. 

Bruce will go on with cheap injury prone FA guys.

So we'll end up having 53 guys on IR by the end of season and blame injuries...

 

Since nothing is changing, and we're supposedly close.

Why should Bruce change the way he runs FA???

 

Look for our 1st rounder to come out of Alabama.

Edited by Wildbunny
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53 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Look for our 1st rounder to come out of Alabama.

In general I'm not a fan of this theory either. It kinda shows a lack of scouting overall, and is eerily similar to our JetSkins and TampaSkins days. At least these guys are young and talented but it's like we're really trying to answer the question of can Alabama beat an NFL team. 

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8 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 I did have to laugh a little at this last sentence.

The Skins taking over as the bottom feeders, with our 3 SB championships and the Eagles' empty trophy case. My how 1 year can erase all of the backwards-assed flops of their teams. Delusional.

 

 

Actually, it's quite accurate. The Cards left the NFC East in 2002, which was right around the time that Snyder hired Spurrier and the Eagles became playoff regulars under Andy Reid. 

 

Regardless of what came before, it's mostly true that Skins inherited the Cards' old position in the East.

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5 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

That's the thing. I don't think we're a 3-13 bad type team. 

 

I think at THIS present time we might be because the QB situation.  We finished 1-6 against an easy schedule and could have easily finished 0-7.  We got Swearinger now gone.  Nicholson's situation is precarious.  Norman might be released though am hearing lately they will keep him.  Vernon Davis is likely gone.  Maybe Preston and Crowder gone.  

 

This team was again the only team aside from Arizona to get blown out by more than 24 points last season 4 times.  I think we got some good young players as a foundation but I think the team still has a way to go.  It's very hard to win with scrubs at QB -- typically you need killer other units to overcome that and the Redskins don't have that even though they have a foundation building it.  Sort of reminds me of the 2016 Jets who went 5-11.  They had a killer young D line -- Wilkerson, Richardson, L. Williams.  Running game not bad with Forte and Powell.  They were bad anyway.  That's with Fitzpatrick who IMO is better than Colt. 

 

5 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

We're a team that's stuck in win now so we're going to keep trading chips for the future to have a 8-8 season. We're going to address all our holes this off-season, but instead of just letting the chips fall and building a good team for the next 5-10 years, we're going to trade a lot for somebody or sign a big contract or just go all in again.

 

 

This is possible. And that would change my narrative.  But what I think might stop that is the combination of Jay believing in Colt (where they don't feel at desperate at QB) and Bruce doing his usual low key FA crop coupled with the fact that they don't have much cap room to work with.

 

The thing among seemingly a million as for why Dan doesn't understand a whit about building a winning culture is his famous lack of patience.  Bruce-and Jay are likely on a borrowed prove it year round 2.  They got a pass for injuries but I think this is it for them.  But it puts Bruce-Jay in the mode of making a win now move.  Last year it was the Alex trade.  What this time?  Antonio Brown?  I just hope it doesn't happen.  Will see.

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

In general I'm not a fan of this theory either. It kinda shows a lack of scouting overall, and is eerily similar to our JetSkins and TampaSkins days. At least these guys are young and talented but it's like we're really trying to answer the question of can Alabama beat an NFL team. 

 

My son is an Alabama fan, I saw 2 games in person with him this year.  I want Alabama guys but not this year at least no one in the first round slated around 15.  Next year, Tua and Jeudy I crave.   But I agree with you don't draft a school in part to create a narrative. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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8 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

If it's all opposing teams fans it's more likely they will be holding "Thanks for the memories!" signs. 

 

 And we all know if anything like that happened, it won't happen again; Bruce would ban signs everywhere, because people holding signs voicing their displeasure would not fit Allen's narrative and positive twist that he's somehow hypnotized Snyder with.

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12 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

Actually, it's quite accurate. The Cards left the NFC East in 2002, which was right around the time that Snyder hired Spurrier and the Eagles became playoff regulars under Andy Reid. 

 

Regardless of what came before, it's mostly true that Skins inherited the Cards' old position in the East.

But it wasn't until 2009 when they began stinking up the joint on a regular basis.

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On the 6-3 start: We had the 10th easiest schedule in the league this year. In going 6-3 we only outscored our nine opponents by a net total of 1 point (176-175). We only beat one team that would end up in the playoffs, the Cowboys, on a really weird penalty call.  We caught them two weeks before they started their 6-1 finish. We got the Colts in the middle of a 1-5 start, and lost anyway (we were the 1 in 1-5). The only team you could argue we caught at a bad time was Carolina.  We were in the hunt for a playoff spot only because of a strangely fluky year where an inordinate amount of top echelon NFC teams were undone by key injuries or bad coaching, or both (Philly, Green Bay, Minnesota, Atlanta, Carolina).

 

We were extraordinarily lucky to be 6-3 and in the playoff hunt. The fact that Snyder looks at last season and sees bad luck just tells us how incompetently we are run. It's going to go badly next season and he's going to be shocked by it.

Edited by Rufus T Firefly
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This clown show of a front office can point to injuries until they're blue in the face, but they let go of guys like John Sullivan and Austin Blythe. Guess what they're doing right now. Similarly, Orlando Scandrick had a solid season for the Chiefs until he got hurt. Unfortunately building a roster takes more than having 7-10 players that boost your brand notoriety, and even their brand stinks at this point.  

 

EDIT

It was Sean Welsh, not Austin Blythe but the point still stands. 

Edited by Berggy9598

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of all the stories in the last couple of days this one takes the cake for me.  Dan? and others in the FO shocked to learn that the head of the football operation isn't really a football guy?  Russell's other story about how Jay would rather Kyle Smith be in charge of football operations than Bruce -- interesting.  Ditto the stories from multiple reporters both local and national that Jon Gruden has zero interest in Bruce Allen.  There is an obvious common thread between these narratives

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/chris-russell-michael-lombardi-sent-shock-waves-through-redskins-park

Russell: Comments on Allen sent 'shock waves' through Redskins Park

 

Former NFL executive Michael Lombardi's comments about Redskins team president Bruce Allensent "major shock waves" through Redskins team headquarters, according to 106.7 The Fan's Chris Russell

Lombardi told Grant & Danny Allen "didn't have anything to do when it came player personnel procedures" when the two worked for the Oakland Raiders.

"Bruce has been the general manager under the disguise as a football guy," Lombardi told 106.7 The Fan Wednesday. "And let's face it, Bruce never did any football with the Raiders when I worked there. He wasn't even in the draft meetings when we were there. He never was involved in player personnel." 

Russell said those comments created waves in Ashburn. 

"I was told that sent major shock waves through Redskins Park," Russell said Saturday on 106.7 The Fan. "People are like, 'Whoa. I can't believe he said that about Bruce.'"

"Even Bruce's allies, or thought to be allies, are turning against him," Russell said. "No, Michael Lombardi was just being honest."

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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