The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

25 minutes ago, slinky said:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050208055647/http://www.firebruceallen.com:80/

the #FireBruceAllen from the Tampa days.

That’s probably the saddest part in all this, is that it’s not like we can point back to any success prior to joining the Redskins.  Unless we count successfully using his father’s name for his own personal gain.

[The Sisko]

I’m sure Allen’s first action upon regaining the reigns on the business side was to restart the company line about the season ticket waitlist. See, the fan uprising was averted with the stroke of a pen. They love us Dan!!

[FrFan]

 

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess their cognitive ability as greater than it is.
The incompetent person tends to overestimate his level of competence
The incompetent person fails to recognize the competence of those who truly possess it
The incompetent person fails to realize his level of incompetence

 

 

[FrFan]

Another sad proof we hit rock bottom
Dr. Frankenputz says: 
January 11, 2019 at 3:44 pm

Never thought I’d say this as a lifelong Eagles fan but I really do feel bad for the Redskins fans. Probably similar to how I felt when Norman Braman was the Eagles owner…no hope on the horizon.

famundacheese says:    
January 11, 2019 at 3:52 pm

Eagles fan here. I used to hate the skins. Now it’s hard to. It’s like when the Cardinals left the division the skins took over as bottom feeders. I actually feel bad for the fan base.

[FrFan]

19 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

"I mean, I've gotta think Bruce has some kind of dirt on Dan Snyder. There's no other explanation for him still being around and running that organization."

Sad, but true.

 

He may have some weird Coors Light orgy tapes, who knows ?

 

[ExoDus84]

**** you Snyder, and double **** you to Allen, you slimey, arrogant, worthless pile of pig ****. 

 

I hate those two clowns for destroying this franchise that I love. 

 

I won't spend a single red cent on this team again until these ****s are both gone. 

[RemoveSnyder]

[FrFan]

Bruce after being promoted

 

[goskins10]

11 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm going to start this off by saying that I'm a lot more pessimistic right now than I was in times past. Its honestly reaching Zorn levels of frustration (for different reasons). The honest thing that I was saying to myself was that Bruce was OK to me because he was keeping Dan out of things and we were making "smart" decisions on the football side. We can agree to disagree on whether those decisions were in fact smart (the QB situation, the draft picks, the free agency approach, etc). But the way this firing of front office people is going / has gone has left me just frustrated and questioning how much has really changed. In the grand scheme of things it may be small, but it has the feeling of a head in the sand approach that we knew all too well before. And I'll admit that the handling of the Foster, DJ, benching of Monte, etc contributed to this. 

 

Edit 

 

So the question is are we a simple few offensive weapons (Guice & a better QB) away, or are we destined to be a perennial team in purgatory hoping that a guy slips in the draft that can turn our team around. Or maybe we do what so many here have been asking for and have a Beck/Grossman type year with Johnson and McCoy and wind up going 2-14

 

I appreciate your approach here - and i get it, I really do. Here is the problem with that line of thinking and I believe is the problem with dan (among many) and bruce (even more). 

 

Games are won and lost on a few plays. But it's the good teams that find a way to make those few plays more consistently than other teams. We can play the what if game and come up with a compelling argument that the team is just "this" close. But the fact is when there is a play to be made that is the game changer - a game to be won that means POs or go home - this team consistently comes up short. 

 

And that comes from the top IMO. The FO can make some decent day to day decisions. They had a few nice drafts the last few years. But when the real decisions need to be made, the franchise changing decisions - QB for example, bringing in players with really heavy baggage, releasing players for giving a ****, they make poor decisions. The drop the ball (yes, pun intended). 

 

Also, you mention the Zorn years - more importantly to me the Cerrato years. Vinnie was incompetent in making the right moves. However, there was never a point where I thought he thought, the team is there. I am doing a great job. I am just getting unlucky. As many stupid moves as he made, you could at least see him trying to make the team better. 

 

With bruce in charge, there is an arrogance from the team that we are a good team, you stupid fans just can't see it (yes it was there from Dan before but not nearly as bad), Again, they spin it like they were just "this" far away when in fact they are miles away. The entire culture of the team is wrong right now. Like what DJ said or not, I have a hard time being pissed at a player who says we don't practice hard enough - that the coaches are putting us in bad positions, especially when you see that he is right! Remember when Raheem Morris was let go? He was blamed for the secondary not being disciplined? Now it's the same story, but a different DC. Could it be the DC and not the position coach? Just possibly? 

 

For me, the fact that bruce can solidify his power in the organization when he is clearly the problem says there is no real end in sight for this disaster. (Not directed at you) Despite some of those who are still holding on that everything is OK and the team just needs a few breaks, sorry this team is a disaster from top to bottom. Our only hope was for dan to remove bruce and then he accidentally pick a real GM - that he can go bowling with. Instead he gives the guy who is the actual problem more power -

 

Bruce Wormtongue Allen! 

 

[Dissident2]

It all makes sense when you think about it. 

 

Imbecile in question - during the offseason - says "wins and losses" are the main stats we should use to judge anyone involved in an organization, from the equipment manager on up. 

 

His W/L record is horrible over nearly a decade, so, yeah, that seems like a smart thing to say. 

 

Proceeds to have another ****ty year to make that record worse. So ****ty, in fact, that the team sees  quantifiable fan base erosion on huge levels, from overall attendance to local TV ratings. Oh, and including a not-even-close-to-sold-out opening day when we're 1-0. 

 

Moron in question - who's in charge of all this - gives an inspiring speech at the end of the season that galvanizes and reassures fans and ... oh, wait, my bad. Moron in question says absolutely nothing. Total radio silence. Travels to Bahamas with team owner, in fact. 

 

Fan base comes together with social media campaign that brings team's twitter feed to a grinding halt for a time. #FiretheMoron.

 

Satan offers middle finger to fan base and elevates moron to a position of even more control. 

 

So again ... makes total sense when you think about it. 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Ask around Redskins Park, and the team truly believes that it was the injury to Alex Smith, and subsequently Colt McCoy, that buried the team in 2018. Folks are quick to point out that the 'Skins were 6-3 in Week 10 and in the driver's seat for a division title. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/while-redskins-hold-still-todd-bowles-gregg-williams-and-steve-wilks-all-got-new-jobs

 

The narratives all really converge around these points for me:

 

A. That 6-3 team was really really special.  They think the fans felt that too -- only reason why fans didn't show up to the stadium was Lafemina's misguided attempt to subjugate the secondary market.  Bruce will fix that now regaining his status on the business side!

 

B. Yeah it was tragic that Alex Smith got hurt but it was equally tragic that Colt McCoy got hurt -- they would have been more than fine with Colt at the helm.  Jay more or less doubled down on that point twice in interviews.  So they don't buy the narrative that they have no QBs.

 

C. Stadium, Stadium, Stadium

 

I think Dan is the worst owner probably in sports let alone football.  I have a different narrative for his stupidity than some do about the Bruce move.  I don't think Dan was giving the middle finger to fans as some are saying on twitter.  I don't think its I know you want him out but hahaha I am doing the opposite.  I think its more likely this:  They'd think the critics on this thread are just misguided passionate Redskins fans.  They think God bless our passion but we are really dumb and here's what we are missing:

 

A.  Bruce is like the ultimate utility infielder for a FO.  Did you see more fans in the stands preLafemina?  Sure, you did.  Because Bruce is smarter than Lafemina.  you fans ate up Lafemina's syrupy interviews on the radio.  Yeah Bruce doesn't do that.  Bruce just gets the job done.  You fans complain about the stadium?  Well dummies -- who is leading the charge on that?  Bruce will get you that stadium.  And heck in between all of that the dude is helping Jay with his roster, making sure I don't overpay in FA, and even helping Jay with in game challenges.  And you fans hate the dude?  I don't get that.  But even if I have to get rid of him to please people -- you want me to do that this thick into the action of pursing a stadium?

 

B.  We went 6-3.  You all wanted me to be patient.  And you got that.   We were on our 4th QB by the end of the year.  We were still a win away from the playoffs.  Bruce and Jay tell me we are as good as any team in the NFL.   I know you are in panic because of no QB.  But Jay has sworn to me for years Colt has the goods and we will be fine.   So you fans think i am too impatient and now I am too patient?  Pick one otherwise I can't take you all too seriously. 

 

So you all want me to dump a dude who will almost for sure take this team to the playoffs last year.  And if you don't trust his version of that, trust Jay who is telling me the same thing.  You want a new stadium, that's the dude who is making that happen.  And all the hysteria of people not being in the stands for games -- Bruce fixes that, too.

 

 

VOR to avoid this turning to a Jay bash post.  Of course Jay has to convince Dan of the narrative that they are close out of self preservation.   Every coach has to sell that things are better than it looks narrative when they are this far into their tenure.  It's up to the owner to read through it.  And while I understand the logic of all of this.  It's IMO pretzel logic.  And I think its all going to come crashing down.  While I hate the status quo, I am not among the pessimists as for this will never get blown up or it will happen eons from now.  I'd be stunned it if doesn't happen after 2019 -- heck I actually wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the middle of the 2019 season.  Dan calls Bruce into his office -- Bruce i thought you told me this is a SB team, how the heck are we 2-6?  I am getting bombarded from fans on social media.  The minority owners tell me this all has to change. 

 

I think we are headed for a 2009 repeat.  That's my only hope.  It feels that way to me.  Over the last month or so i didn't think Bruce will be gone or Dan would get it yet.   I think it will blow up in their face this season.  As every beat guy just about said, they almost want a banner at Redskins Park for their 6-3 start.  IMO no 6-3 start will happen in 2019.

 

[Wildbunny]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And I think its all going to come crashing down.  While I hate the status quo, I am not among the pessimists as for this will never get blown up or it will happen eons from now.  I'd be stunned it if doesn't happen after 2019 -- heck I actually wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the middle of the 2019 season.  Dan calls Bruce into his office -- Bruce i thought you told me this is a SB team, how the heck are we 2-6?

 

I can see Jay tanking early 2019 so we start 0-5 or something... With the crushing blow after playing the Vikings and KC mounting a 4th Q comeback.

 

Well, with our opponents, even without tanking, we might start 0-5...

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

 

I can see Jay tanking early 2019 so we start 0-5 or something... With the crushing blow after playing the Vikings and KC mounting a 4th Q comeback.

 

Well, with our opponents, even without tanking, we might start 0-5...

 

Yeah look I've been accused by some of the more ardent FO backers in the past for being too much a glass half empty guy and too harsh on the FO.   I am also relatively positive on Jay, and I like the dude a lot personally and I don't blame him for what I perceive to be his part in selling Dan on the status quo.   But I think things crash down for them in 2019.

 

A.  They will find out Lafemina wasn't the reason for the no shows.  Flood Stubhub with cheap tickets.  Fans still won't come

B.  The idea that fans are fickle and will get over it.  They will find out that's not true.

C.  Colt isn't the answer even if not for performance than durability.  So they are screwed at QB 

 

 

And my pet theory is they will likely discover they are one of the worst teams in the NFL in 2019 mainly because of the QB situation let alone on the verge of a SB.  That will be the biggest shock.  Fans still don't go.  The FireBruceAllen movement extends to FireDanSnyder -- in other words it gets even worse.   No shows at the stadium.  Declining TV ratings.  I know some people think that Dan will double down again with another excuse.  I'd say the chances of that are like 1%.  If this all implodes next season, I'd say Dan almost for sure explodes. 

 

In all the narratives about what Dan has been thinking, just about all of them had Bruce staying.    106.7 said Bruce won't lose any power.  WP thought he might be reassigned.  106.7 again beat WP on their sources.  But in that soup was the mention that Dan is learning about fans take on Bruce and it seems to be news to him as to the intensity of it -- and it was at least discussed to get rid of Bruce.  So I don't think Bruce is teflon anymore.  

 

My glimmer of optimism is a 2020 season with Tua or Fromm at QB thanks to their high draft pick.  Bruce gone.  Whole new staff.  

 

And as for Dan himself, I'd love for it to crash so hard that he'd want to sell and maybe this kind of scenario is the best shot for it.  Unlikely though.  So the only thing left is for him to get undressed and embarrassed and for him to lose his social crutch.  I've almost always thought Dan was a bad owner but I admit some of these narratives that I've heard of late paint to me a additional picture of him as to his problems.  The dude comes off as a mega social weirdo.   Maybe breaking up his weird social circle might help.  But got no clue.

 

[dyst]

Makes no sense. Dan won’t sell, but hopefully he will move the team. Can the DMV force him to leave? 

[Riggo#44]

15 hours ago, owa said:

Matter of perspective.  I consider anyone that doesn't show as the real problem.  Need more real fans and less whiners imo.  Too many fans have been brainwashed by the WP and all their negativity.  I feel like Bruce and Synder both want to win badly and have put everything into it but just haven't hit on the right formula yet.  I can't fault them for trying.

 

And there it is! The "real fans" callout! It's all the WaPo's negativity! Real fans! The same thing I've read on this board since I joined in 2006. We have 0 playoff wins in that time.

 

In 10 years, Bruce Allen has lead us to two playoff appearances. We lost both games. He's put together 1 10-win season, 6 years ago. Conversely, he has 7 losing seasons, 5 of which were 10 losses or more. Any other GM would have been canned long ago.

 

I don't think the WaPo has anything to do with that.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  They will find out Lafemina wasn't the reason for the no shows.  Flood Stubhub with cheap tickets.  Fans still won't come

For sure Bruce will do that.

And that will attract fans... from the visiting team.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

C.  Colt isn't the answer even if not for performance than durability.  So they are screwed at QB 

I'm pretty sure at one point this offseason Bruce will get rid of McCoy. He'll ride the Josh Johnson's train.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My glimmer of optimism is a 2020 season with Tua or Fromm at QB thanks to their high draft pick.  Bruce gone.  Whole new staff.  

Maybe, but sadly in this scenario is that we'll have crashed the career of guys like Trent Williams, maybe part ways with Scherff, and killed a whole bunch of good coaches...

Which is a real shame.

 

47 minutes ago, dyst said:

Makes no sense. Dan won’t sell, but hopefully he will move the team. Can the DMV force him to leave? 

Moving the team would be like selling. Maybe even worse for Dan. So I believe there's a higher chance he sells the team than moving it.

 

Dan and Bruce probably don't care about fan's anger. But I believe minority owners do. I believe NFL cares about that if revenue's dumping carry on. We're what used to be a cash machine. We're not supposed to make as much revenues as the Jaguars... If the Redskins makes less money, then every owner in the NFL do...

[FrFan]

 

[MisterPinstripe]

There is zero chance the NFL would move an NFL team out if DC, you don't move a team out of a massive market.

[Riggo#44]

33 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

 

Dan and Bruce probably don't care about fan's anger.

 

They do care, they're just completely oblivious as to why we're angry. They are completely disconnected, which I think is worse.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

What escapes me about the “6-3 is who we are”, “remember when we were a dominating 4-2” narratives is that if you look back over the years, there are always bad to average teams who start out fast and falter down the stretch, every season.

 

A common early and mid season segment on practically every NFL related show is ‘contender or pretender’ for that very reason.

 

Same for the “one bad call here, bad bounce there” narratives where what-ifs rule the roost.  As if every single team doesn’t have that one, or several, that got away.  That would have catapulted their season.  Several teams can say the exact same thing.  It may even have some merit for some teams, but when you’re consistently mediocre - it’s merely an excuse to feel better about your shortcomings.

 

Beyond that, the NFL is set up in a way that damn near everyone stumbles into a meaningless playoff berth every once in a while.  Look no further than last years Buffalo Bills.

 

It is beyond comprehension for me that an owner that’s been around for two decades seeing everything that we’re seeing + some, can legitimately fall for the narrative that they are just victims of bad luck, poor officiating, you name it.  

 

 

[PigskinRedskin]

It's just sad really that greed and incompetence from the front office is deteriorating a once storied franchise and causing such a backlash from fans. What sucks too is the only real way to get our (fans) point across is to not go to games, stop buying merchandise, etc (which I am totally behind) but players like Guice, Kerrigan, etc, who love to play the game, are either going to hear thousands of boo's or play in a quiet environment. Sure, they get paid well and all but I am sure it still hurts coming out on your own stadium and seeing thousands of empty seats or more other team fans in the seats.

 

It just sucks all around and it rarely effects the people (Snyder, Bruce) that cause it. 

[skins island connection]

7 hours ago, FrFan said:

Another sad proof we hit rock bottom
Dr. Frankenputz says: 
January 11, 2019 at 3:44 pm

Never thought I’d say this as a lifelong Eagles fan but I really do feel bad for the Redskins fans. Probably similar to how I felt when Norman Braman was the Eagles owner…no hope on the horizon.

famundacheese says:    
January 11, 2019 at 3:52 pm

Eagles fan here. I used to hate the skins. Now it’s hard to. It’s like when the Cardinals left the division the skins took over as bottom feeders. I actually feel bad for the fan base.

 

 I did have to laugh a little at this last sentence.

The Skins taking over as the bottom feeders, with our 3 SB championships and the Eagles' empty trophy case. My how 1 year can erase all of the backwards-assed flops of their teams. Delusional.

 

Delusional Dan

Bumbling Bruce. Or is it Backstabbing Bruce.  Bonehead Bruce?

Next season, when they take the field, they will look around at all of the empty seats and scratch their heads, wondering where everyone is. Then they will look at the top section and see the seats have been painted to a very large image of Dan and Bruce with large speakers on each side to pump in artificial sounds of cheering, while the Snickers guy is sitting, all alone, thinking to himself ' hey, this isn't Cleveland, is it?'

 

 

[Pwyl]

If I remember  correctly, Vinnie was given a similar expansion of responsibilities  the year before he was canned.  

[FrFan]

18 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

Delusional Dan

Bumbling Bruce. Or is it Backstabbing Bruce.  Bonehead Bruce?

Next season, when they take the field, they will look around at all of the empty seats and scratch their heads, wondering where everyone is. Then they will look at the top section and see the seats have been painted to a very large image of Dan and Bruce with large speakers on each side to pump in artificial sounds of cheering, while the Snickers guy is sitting, all alone, thinking to himself ' hey, this isn't Cleveland, is it?'

 

 

I wish there will be only opposing fans at home games holding Dumb and Dumber signs

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, FrFan said:

I wish there will be only opposing fans at home games holding Dumb and Dumber signs

 

If it's all opposing teams fans it's more likely they will be holding "Thanks for the memories!" signs.