Jay Gruden: Buy, Sell Or HOLD: 2017 edition

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Skins haven’t lost 10 games in a season in 3 years. I’d keep Gruden for at least next season, under the promise that he hires an offensive coordinator to take some off of his plate. 

God if the bar is “don’t lose 10+ games” then we probably need a trench to bury the bar because it’s so low.

11 hours ago, ShredSkins said:

If Jay gets traded to the Bengals, what would Jay trade us for Colt McCoy and Ryan Grant?

Well, Grant is not under contract.  Jay would make him the highest paid WR in league history and then immediately name him a starter. He’s definitely go after Kelley too.  Probably Compton as well to start at ILB. 

[hail2skins]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Did you see how terrible Vance Joseph managed the clock at the end of the 1st half today?

 

How was it the coach's fault that the idiot player caught a pass next to the sideline and didn't step out of bounds?

[carex]

so, I don't want to trade Jay, but it the Bengals made an offer would you trade him?  And what could we get?

[757SeanTaylor21]

I honestly see jay letting kc walk and going for dalton...or trading for mccaron

[Rufus T Firefly]

15 hours ago, hail2skins said:

How was it the coach's fault that the idiot player caught a pass next to the sideline and didn't step out of bounds?

Yeah, I'm not sure what horrible mistake he was supposed to have made. Not that I much care that a coach is going to be fired after one year on the job might be bad at clock management as Gruden. I only care that we have a coach who's inept enough at it to be games like he did against KC.

[Butters20]

I think we gotta keep Kirk. I mean, can anyone really imagine a scenario where we lose Gruden and Kirk? I have a tough time buying that. As someone else noted, that would plunge us back to the depths from whence we came 

[skinzplay]

I'm a "sell" guy when it comes to Gruden. I just don't think that he's HC material. At year 4, there should be better decision-making on so many different levels, and I just don't see much progress in that regard. Having said that, no one will have to talk me down off of the nearest bridge if he's still our HC next season, either. The person I want gone is Allen, and for a million different reasons with which many here might agree. Besides, if Gruden goes and Allen remains, who the heck trusts Allen to hire a competent long-term answer at HC? Certainly not me.

[lavar1156]

Jay needs to let someone else call plays next year. Not that he's a bad play caller but it's too much responsibility for a HC.

[skinzplay]

27 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

Jay needs to let someone else call plays next year. Not that he's a bad play caller but it's too much responsibility for a HC.

 

Definitely agree on that point. Kyle and Boy Wonder can do it, even in their first year as HC. He can't, even in year 4. It's not a good sign. But if he's gonna stay, he does need to delegate play-calling duties.

[Burgold]

I think Jay has done enough and there are enough outside factors that a sell looks really unlikely and probably should be. This is a hard year to fathom. We are so close and yet so far from being the team we want. Jay is the same. I can't tell if he is a good head coach or a bumbler. He's clearly not in that elite category, but he's managed to pull together a team of castoffs and never beens and went toe to toe with the best the NFL has to offer this year. Being a 7-9 or an 8-8 team is not really a moral victory, but given all the mess it is an accomplishment.

 

Is Jay the best coach for this team is still entirely in doubt. Has he done a good job is somewhat in doubt. Has he wrighted a ship that had every reason to sink isn't.

[Tsailand]

 

18 hours ago, hail2skins said:

How was it the coach's fault that the idiot player caught a pass next to the sideline and didn't step out of bounds?

 

He should have kicked the FG on 3rd down.

[heyholetsgogrant]

On 12/20/2017 at 5:33 PM, goskins10 said:

@OVCChairman and to anyone else interested. 

 

Overall Redskins are now: Man Games Lost 3rd (4th last week) - Injury Impact - 6th (9th last week):

 

Games Lost due to Injury: 

 

Impact of those injuries:

 

 

Seems to be a direct correlation between injuries and losses.  Most playoff bound teams have the least amount of injuries. 

14 hours ago, Burgold said:

I think Jay has done enough and there are enough outside factors that a sell looks really unlikely and probably should be. This is a hard year to fathom. We are so close and yet so far from being the team we want. Jay is the same. I can't tell if he is a good head coach or a bumbler. He's clearly not in that elite category, but he's managed to pull together a team of castoffs and never beens and went toe to toe with the best the NFL has to offer this year. Being a 7-9 or an 8-8 team is not really a moral victory, but given all the mess it is an accomplishment.

 

Is Jay the best coach for this team is still entirely in doubt. Has he done a good job is somewhat in doubt. Has he wrighted a ship that had every reason to sink isn't.

 

Agreed, Skins beat the Seahawks and Rams, and were competitive against the Eagles, Chiefs, Vikings, and Saints (we let them off the hook).  All that with a crappy roster filled with massive injuries. What if we had most of our guys?  No doubt this is at least a 10-11 win team...I know that shocks people, but we were competitive in most games.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 12/25/2017 at 12:18 AM, hail2skins said:

How was it the coach's fault that the idiot player caught a pass next to the sideline and didn't step out of bounds?

Preparation and accountability.  That doesn’t happen to the Patriots.  Why?  Preparation and accountability.  You aren’t named Gronkowski, pull that crap in NE and Billy cuts your ass the next day.

[Warhead36]

5 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Preparation and accountability.  That doesn’t happen to the Patriots.  Why?  Preparation and accountability.  You aren’t named Gronkowski, pull that crap in NE and Billy cuts your ass the next day.

I bet it does happen on the Pats and a lot of other teams but we don't notice because we don't watch them with the same intensity and frequency.

 

I see players on lots of teams under so called good coaches make boneheaded mistakes. Coaching can only do so much. At some point, professional football players should be able to execute basic football abilities.

[William Barbour]

 

Good take from Lake Lewis. He went on to say that in 3 years. Seattle has 29 wins and Redskins have 24 wins. 

 

I still say Jay is a good coach. I also, think this roster showed it can be competitive even with the injuries. A good praise to depth and the front office for building a team that can sustain winning seasons. Like most good franchises do. 

[Warhead36]

I would throw 2014 out. He inherited a mess with the RG3 situation.

[William Barbour]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I would throw 2014 out. He inherited a mess with the RG3 situation.

Yes

 

I also think we should credit Jay for realizing that RG3 post injury could not have success in the NFL. Noticed Kirks potential and made Kirk a 28 million dollar QB in the NFL. According to NFL market value for the QB position of course. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I bet it does happen on the Pats and a lot of other teams but we don't notice because we don't watch them with the same intensity and frequency.

 

I see players on lots of teams under so called good coaches make boneheaded mistakes. Coaching can only do so much. At some point, professional football players should be able to execute basic football abilities.

I watch a lot of the Pats, and it rarely happens.  I also watch a lot of the Saints, and these types of things don't typically happen with them either.  (Their biggest issue has been just complete incompetence on defense for 5 years.)  

 

You would agree that better coached teams make less mistakes than poorly coached teams, right?  I don't think that's a stretch.  Coaching is both about X's and O's, but also about preparing players for situations, and then holding them accountable.  

[kingdaddy]

0-4 in season openers, 2-6 vs. Dallas. We can do better.

 

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I watch a lot of the Pats, and it rarely happens.  I also watch a lot of the Saints, and these types of things don't typically happen with them either.  (Their biggest issue has been just complete incompetence on defense for 5 years.)  

 

You would agree that better coached teams make less mistakes than poorly coached teams, right?  I don't think that's a stretch.  Coaching is both about X's and O's, but also about preparing players for situations, and then holding them accountable.  

The Seahawksled the league in penalties the year they won the Super Bowl and the Ravens were 2nd in the league in penalties the year they won it. Do their coaches not hold their players accountable? At some point players play, the coaches can only hold hands so much.

 

I don't think better coached teams make less mistakes as much as better players make less mistakes.

 

And in terms of penalties per game, we're at 5.9 this year, which is 8th(actually in a five way tie for 4th) https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game

 

Just for comparison sakes, the Pats are at 6.1 penalties per game.

[skins island connection]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The Seahawksled the league in penalties the year they won the Super Bowl and the Ravens were 2nd in the league in penalties the year they won it. Do their coaches not hold their players accountable? At some point players play, the coaches can only hold hands so much.

 

I don't think better coached teams make less mistakes as much as better players make less mistakes.

 

And in terms of penalties per game, we're at 5.9 this year, which is 8th(actually in a five way tie for 4th) https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/penalties-per-game

 

Just for comparison sakes, the Pats are at 6.1 penalties per game.

I would think their super aggressive defenses more than made up for the penalties. In fact, that's the only reason they won or got to the SB.

 

Better coaching = better players = less penalties = wins. In the Pat's case, Belichick just cuts them. That's his way to let players know he isn't putting up with it.

[SWFLSkins]

13 hours ago, William Barbour said:

 

Good take from Lake Lewis. He went on to say that in 3 years. Seattle has 29 wins and Redskins have 24 wins. 

 

I still say Jay is a good coach. I also, think this roster showed it can be competitive even with the injuries. A good praise to depth and the front office for building a team that can sustain winning seasons. Like most good franchises do. 

 Lake Lewis Jr liked your reply 

 

13h13 hours ago

[Jumbo]

congratulations to all survivors of the traditional american dysfunctional family holiday massacre. or maybe that's juts my people. 

 

the quoted post below was made a few weeks ago in the mod forum, but didn't get around to acting on it until now. since then another gruden-topic thread has been properly started and it will remain. the rest of the post stands as written. 

 

Quote

 

a lot of meandering off topic has been one of the ongoing low grade aspects of this thread

 

while a long-running catch-all qb thread has sort of become de rigueur here the last few years, the general view is such megathreads be held to the minimum. and i can agree with those who see the HC position as a reasonable candidate for such a thread in our context over recent years.

 

but it's the end of 2017 and though the story continues, this one is done. 

 

what would be cool would be seeing someone start new threads for HC based on a specific article/matter that's meaningful  as solo topics.

 

if someone---preferably one who hasn't posted their same takes a zillion times already---down the road maybe wants to address the position in general based on an actual overall argument/premise that's well developed and maybe supported with good sources, and even suggesting viable options at the position as part of their case if applicable (gasp) it won't hurt to try it, but if it ain't fresh or well done it may not survive.

 

and/or....maybe someone start one for any/all asst/position coaches....maybe split defense/offense...etc....fwiw

 

c'mon...don't be lazy