General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[twa]

It has, but repeating things works sometimes.

 

His conclusions are a bit off, but it doesn't matter much if you are dead either way..

 

ask him how a simple 22 bullet behaves inside a body

[visionary]

 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, visionary said:

 

 

Not even a drop in the bucket unless we have a body count. 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[Elessar78]

[tshile]

So then why do we send a regular cop to go in after an active shooter?

 

or did i miss where we started sending deputies to delta force training schools?

[Larry]

To the folks demanding Delta Force level training for teachers:  

 

1)  How many of those people are demanding the same training, for the people who are tasked with hunting active shooters right now - specifically, every cop in a squad car?  

 

2)  And how much training do you demand, before a "teacher with a gun" is qualified to hide in his classroom with his kids, with his pistol aimed at the locked door?  

 

[Elessar78]

"regular" cop, as in your donut eating stereotype? Maybe they get more specific shooter training over the past twenty years. Stop peddling your false equivalencies. 

[Bang]

Sign the sales slip.

All the training is now satisfied to the rigorous standard of the NRA.

 

 

~Bang

[tshile]

5 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

"regular" cop, as in your donut eating stereotype? Maybe they get more specific shooter training over the past twenty years. Stop peddling your false equivalencies. 

 

as in the ones that go into these schools when there's a shooting.

 

or are you one of those people that think they still wait for SWAT teams to show up?

[thinwhiteduke]

7 hours ago, Burgold said:

Maybe learning how to write? Seems a kind of important skill and one that you're using even now on this very board.

That doesn't take 8 hours a day for 12 years with homework wasting another couple hours a night. That's covers by 6th grade and you can learn at home. It's just repetition. Nothing difficult about that

[twa]

33 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

"regular" cop, as in your donut eating stereotype? Maybe they get more specific shooter training over the past twenty years. Stop peddling your false equivalencies. 

 

Most police not on tactical units or ex-military do not have much active shooter training or even shooting on the move, there has been a major push to do so since we changed the protocol of waiting for swat.

 

That training is available and many civilians go thru it,and I certainly encourage it for anyone that plans to carry a gun on them.

[Burgold]

9 minutes ago, thinwhiteduke said:

That doesn't take 8 hours a day for 12 years with homework wasting another couple hours a night. That's covers by 6th grade and you can learn at home. It's just repetition. Nothing difficult about that

You said you never learn anything. You just admitted that were incorrect. That's a start.

 

I'll be honest the "pull yourself up by your own bootstrap" thing is a pet peeve. You have benefited despite your ingratitude.

At minimum, schools taught or refined your ability to:

Read

Write

Calculate Mathematics

Research/Problem Solve

 

They likely aided in developing conflict resolution skills, knowledge of scientific theory and laws, scientific theory, and helped you develop discipline through art, gym, etc.

 

Your complaint is similar to the kind you hear from people who say government has never done anything for me while driving down a government built road, living in a society where for the most part you are safe enough to pursue both your vocation or occupation instead of hunkering down and wondering where you can find clean water or food or a space where you won't be shot.

 

Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

Our schools, society, government, etc. provide a lot. We take from it every second of every day. We also give back to it sometimes in equal portion, sometimes in lesser portion, and occassionally in grossly unfair ways, but if you had to pay for every service you take advantage unless you're making ten figures you wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

Now, I'll get off my soap box before I get a nose bleen.

49 minutes ago, Larry said:

To the folks demanding Delta Force level training for teachers:  

 

1)  How many of those people are demanding the same training, for the people who are tasked with hunting active shooters right now - specifically, every cop in a squad car?  

 

2)  And how much training do you demand, before a "teacher with a gun" is qualified to hide in his classroom with his kids, with his pistol aimed at the locked door?  

 

I'm not sure what level I'd be demanding (heck, I've made it pretty clear I'm against the idea from the start), but I do think you oughtn't say, "You have a gun. Good. You're set." There ought to be some type of training and some type of certification. 

[thinwhiteduke]

8 hours ago, Popeman38 said:

Wait, so you claim to be so much better at discerning things than EVERYBODY else, but can’t remember a thing from your first 12 years of school? Maybe you are just so dumb you think you’re smart, because you can’t tell the difference. Because you never learned critical thinking, physical science, or math. Just an idea. 

 

EDIT: Wait, I just noticed the 'so called kids' part. are we that blind?

 

You don't even know how to process what I said beyond your surface level thought.

 School dumbs down children. That was it's purpose from the get go.

  I say so called children because  15,16,17 year olds were quite capable of taking care of themselves until the industrial.age and law makers started cutting off their ability to think for themselves and live on their own. 

 

 You just say the words math and science like that's supposed to mean it was meaningful?  Again, you can learn that pretty fast. It doesn't take 12 years, 8 hours a day and if you actually did any real research, you'd learn that you leaned  a pretty  dumbed down version of math. There's easier ways to teach much more effecient ways to do math. Most everything  you learn in school is useless. It's only function is to teach people to comply with authority  and follow orders. Not every kid learns the exact same way and school is a ineffective  cookie cutter antiquated institution that's no different then a prison. School doesn't teach you to think for yourself. It just trains you to be an order following laborer.

 

[thinwhiteduke]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

You said you never learn anything. You just admitted that were incorrect. That's a start.

 

I'll be honest the "pull yourself up by your own bootstrap" thing is a pet peeve. You have benefited despite your ingratitude.

At minimum, schools taught or refined your ability to:

Read

Write

Calculate Mathematics

Research/Problem Solve

 

They likely aided in developing conflict resolution skills, knowledge of scientific theory and laws, scientific theory, and helped you develop discipline through art, gym, etc.

 

Your complaint is similar to the kind you hear from people who say government has never done anything for me while driving down a government built road, living in a society where for the most part you are safe enough to pursue both your vocation or occupation instead of hunkering down and wondering where you can find clean water or food or a space where you won't be shot.

 

Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

Our schools, society, government, etc. provide a lot. We take from it every second of every day. We also give back to it sometimes in equal portion, sometimes in lesser portion, and occassionally in grossly unfair ways, but if you had to pay for every service you take advantage unless you're making ten figures you wouldn't be able to afford it.

 

Now, I'll get off my soap box before I get a nose bleen.

I'm not sure what level I'd be demanding (heck, I've made it pretty clear I'm against the idea from the start), but I do think you oughtn't say, "You have a gun. Good. You're set." There ought to be some type of training and some type of certification. 

School and govt provide nothing valuable.  They just take your time,money and dumb you down to accept your slavery willingly. 

 govt built road proves govt is needed?. No one getting rich off your taxes, sitting in a office in a suit, built that road. The people can organize and do that without authority..and do it without red tape and overspending as well. Govt is not a function by and for the people. It's a ruling entity out for its own device. It's not needed in its current form. Govt is exactly why things are screwed up and always  will be. Govts job is to keep you struggling  and not independently thriving. Govt and money are why debt and homelessness  exist. 

[tshile]

[bcl05]

30 minutes ago, thinwhiteduke said:

You don't even know how to process what I said beyond your surface level thought.

 School dumbs down children. That was it's purpose from the get go.

  I say so called children because  15,16,17 year olds were quite capable of taking care of themselves until the industrial.age and law makers started cutting off their ability to think for themselves and live on their own. 

 

 You just say the words math and science like that's supposed to mean it was meaningful?  Again, you can learn that pretty fast. It doesn't take 12 years, 8 hours a day and if you actually did any real research, you'd learn that you leaned  a pretty  dumbed down version of math. There's easier ways to teach much more effecient ways to do math. Most everything  you learn in school is useless. It's only function is to teach people to comply with authority  and follow orders. Not every kid learns the exact same way and school is a ineffective  cookie cutter antiquated institution that's no different then a prison. School doesn't teach you to think for yourself. It just trains you to be an order following laborer.

 

Of all the dumb and insulting things I’ve read on here, this might be the one that makes me angriest. 

 

My schools and my teachers made me the person I am today.  My high school biology teacher taught me the basics of genetics and biology and inspired an interest and passion for the subject that still drives me today.  My high school English teacher taught me rigor and demanded excellence in my writing – I still hear his lessons in my head every time I am writing a scientific paper today.  My college film studies teacher taught me how to look at evidence critically and how to argue for novel hypotheses in ways that I still use today. 

 

My medical school teachers gave me the foundational understanding of human biology and medicine that I use every day to inform the choices I make with my patients.  My residency and fellowship advisors and mentors helped me make connections and colleagues at universities around the world that I use to advance research and help discover new diseases.

 

It didn't take 12 years for me to learn the math and science I use today to make new genetic discoveries.  It took 30 years.  I am continuing to learn today.  It takes rigor and dedication and an open mind.  My teachers gave me the tools that allow me to continuously learn and make progress.  

 

I now work at an excellent hospital and am frequently involved in life-saving medical care and new disease discovery.  I have a remarkably rewarding job that I cherish.  I am a fairly resourceful and intelligent person who grew up with wonderful, encouraging parents.  I am certain that I could never have achieved any of this without wonderful schools and teachers and mentors that made me who I am. 

 

A person can become a useless internet troll without school.  A person cannot become a valuable and contributing member of society without it.  

[Corcaigh]

Thinwhiteduke is a member of an autonomous collective.

 

 

[Corcaigh]

13 minutes ago, bcl05 said:

A person cannot become a valuable and contributing member of society without it.  

 

I wouldn't go that far. Society needs dumb ignorant peasants to do menial work for low pay.

 

And I'm pretty sure I would have worked our quantum mechanics, calculus and electromagnetic theory myself when I was 4 if those damn teachers didn't keep interrupting me to teach me to how to read and write.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Corcaigh

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Elessar78 said:

"regular" cop, as in your donut eating stereotype? Maybe they get more specific shooter training over the past twenty years. Stop peddling your false equivalencies. 

What you posted is a good argument against arming teachers, but tshile isn't wrong when he points out that the same argument would appear to disqualify a large number of standard police officers.  That thought is a timely one given what we recently learned about the officer's actions in Florida.  

 

You're right that police need training for these situations, though I'm doubtful they've already had it over the past 20 years.  Police departments and schools jointly creating and practicing emergency response plans should probably become the norm and a better plan to deal with reported threats than how Florida handled things would be helpful as well.  

[Destino]

28 minutes ago, thinwhiteduke said:

School and govt provide nothing valuable.  They just take your time,money and dumb you down to accept your slavery willingly. 

 govt built road proves govt is needed?. No one getting rich off your taxes, sitting in a office in a suit, built that road. The people can organize and do that without authority..and do it without red tape and overspending as well. Govt is not a function by and for the people. It's a ruling entity out for its own device. It's not needed in its current form. Govt is exactly why things are screwed up and always  will be. Govts job is to keep you struggling  and not independently thriving. Govt and money are why debt and homelessness  exist. 

Is there an example of a successful nation that you can offer in support of this argument?

[Corcaigh]

2 minutes ago, Destino said:

Is there an example of a successful nation that you can offer in support of this argument?

 

Somalia seems to have everything worked out pretty well.

[visionary]

 

[Burgold]

39 minutes ago, bcl05 said:

 

 

It didn't take 12 years for me to learn the math and science I use today to make new genetic discoveries.  It took 30 years.  I am continuing to learn today.  It takes rigor and dedication and an open mind.  My teachers gave me the tools that allow me to continuously learn and make progress.  

 

I now work at an excellent hospital and am frequently involved in life-saving medical care and new disease discovery.  I have a remarkably rewarding job that I cherish.  I am a fairly resourceful and intelligent person who grew up with wonderful, encouraging parents.  I am certain that I could never have achieved any of this without wonderful schools and teachers and mentors that made me who I am. 

 

A person can become a useless internet troll without school.  A person cannot become a valuable and contributing member of society without it.  

To add to that, I am one of many who work in a profession different than the one he studied in grad school. Was grad school therefore a waste? Absolutely not. Being part of rigorous scientific studies and learning about confounds, procedures, real world statistical application, presentation, etc. were all valuable. The research skills they taught me was generalizable to other areas. The methodology, the way to attack theory, etc. all have incredible use and created a foundation for what I do today.

 

School provides what you put into it. If you give nothing you probably only get back the barest foundation. If you invest, your return comes back manifold.