Est.1974 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Would love to think we'd sneak a solid 4th rounder back, rightly or wrongly he's damaged goods here now. Also intriguing that it's Denver we are talking to of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 If this trade does go down, hopefully the Broncos coaching staff won't be stupid enough to have the kid playing inside linebacker. That would be one plus for both him and his new team. i wish him well. Nobody on the board knows exactly what he went through, and sometimes those kinds of personal things should remain just that -- personal, not fodder for debate and dissection by self-appointed internet experts and google aficionados. Sometimes the best thing for a career, whether it be Cousins or Cravens, is to pursue it somewhere other than where you currently are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticsalmon Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 This team is not good enough to dismiss a player with Craven's potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, skinzplay said: If this trade does go down, hopefully the Broncos coaching staff won't be stupid enough to have the kid playing inside linebacker. That would be one plus for both him and his new team. i wish him well. Nobody on the board knows exactly what he went through, and sometimes those kinds of personal things should remain just that -- personal, not fodder for debate and dissection by self-appointed internet experts and google aficionados. Sometimes the best thing for a career, whether it be Cousins or Cravens, is to pursue it somewhere other than where you currently are. What personal things was he going through? I didn't follow the Sua Cravens drama closely. I knew what kind of player he was, and I was aware of the fact that he was leaving, but I didn't know why. I thought he wanted to put more focus into acquiring wealth through social media which has become very popular these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Chacon Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Audible_Red40 said: His "current" value really has nothing to do with being "only the Redskins". It was a bad pick in the first place, there were several red flags... and still, we are exchanging and loosing... I'm tired of loosing in the draft, free agency, trades... If His current value is good enough for a team like the Broncos to be interested in trading... but I will be pissed if the Redskins 'settle' for a fourth or a 'fifth'... if we get back the second round we invested, then I'll be ok.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Marco Chacon said: ... but I will be pissed if the Redskins 'settle' for a fourth or a 'fifth'... if we get back the second round we invested, then I'll be ok.. Be prepared to be pissed then. And you'd only be "ok" if they got a 2nd back? Would you at least be "happy" if they got 1 or 2 1st rounders for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I still can't believe I actually debated with a poster who claimed Cravens would be welcomed back and there was no damage done. Obviously the damage was severe, you just can't bring a guy like that back who up and quit at the worst possible time. I was stunned when I heard a 2nd too, I still can't believe that. Of course his value has diminished with his behavior, the same red flags that were with him had he returned here would be surrounding him there too. He is back for one reason and it is the reason most of us talked about in September: The money ran out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I would bet a 4th is the most we get for Cravens and that would be just fine. Maybe a 4th that can be as high as a 2nd in 2019 if he plays for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Chacon Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 39 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said: Be prepared to be pissed then. And you'd only be "ok" if they got a 2nd back? Would you at least be "happy" if they got 1 or 2 1st rounders for him? I know I'll be disappointed... is what being a Redskins fan is all about... You buy something for 1000 dollars, you barely use it and then you sell it for 200 bucks... how is that good? I hope a third and a player... or at least 2 thirds, one this draft and the other for 2019... My ideal scenario: straight player swap, we sent Cravens, we get D Thomas... they clear some space from their cap, we upgrade a position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips177 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 44 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said: Be prepared to be pissed then. And you'd only be "ok" if they got a 2nd back? Would you at least be "happy" if they got 1 or 2 1st rounders for him? I'd like to go on record as saying yes, I would be happy with two 1st rounders for a guy that quit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 32 minutes ago, Marco Chacon said: II hope a third and a player... or at least 2 thirds, one this draft and the other for 2019... My ideal scenario: straight player swap, we sent Cravens, we get D Thomas... they clear some space from their cap, we upgrade a position... Not a chance in the world we get offered that much. I would be very happy with a 4th or 5th rounder at this point but I would draw the line there. Most 6th or 7th round picks don't stick and so at that price I would rather keep Cravens with all of his issues just because of the upside that is there if he truly can turn things around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 44 minutes ago, Marco Chacon said: I know I'll be disappointed... is what being a Redskins fan is all about... You buy something for 1000 dollars, you barely use it and then you sell it for 200 bucks... how is that good? I hope a third and a player... or at least 2 thirds, one this draft and the other for 2019... My ideal scenario: straight player swap, we sent Cravens, we get D Thomas... they clear some space from their cap, we upgrade a position... you know how when you drive a car off the lot it loses like half it's value on the spot. That's the way many feel it is with players. Player for player is probably the best bet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Chacon Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: Not a chance in the world we get offered that much. I would be very happy with a 4th or 5th rounder at this point but I would draw the line there. Most 6th or 7th round picks don't stick and so at that price I would rather keep Cravens with all of his issues just because of the upside that is there if he truly can turn things around. Then I don't think is worthy to make a trade... then we should keep him, groom him and see what he can do, it is in his own interest to try hard and work to earn the starting job. If he doesn't feel like trying, it would hurt him more than us... if he's really ready and shows his talents, good for us, and specially good for him... the he will have suitors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 You may get your wish. Jay just talked about this at the combine and says they have no plans to trade him. Of course they would say that if they did want to trade him just to push the price up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 32 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: You may get your wish. Jay just talked about this at the combine and says they have no plans to trade him. Of course they would say that if they did want to trade him just to push the price up. I just listened to it to and that's what he said. Said he saw that on the ticker like he was surprised. It's around the 13:00 mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 What's with this team and these guys? If this guy wants to play then give him a chance to play. Trade him only if equal value or greater value can be received. Simple rule for trading. A fourth round pick for a second round pick? No thanks. A good player for a second round pick? Sure why not. I would take Manny Sanders for Sua straight up. Or Demaryius and kick in a 7th round pick. Either player works. A drafted player can play for the team or decide not to. We own these guys. Giving him away to another team for a lower draft pick makes no sense. And that could lead to others pulling up chalk and wanting to leave with a full on mutiny to deal with. No thanks. If the guy refuses to play for us ruin his career, suspend him so he can't get paid, sue him for any money given to him, and then see what he does. Money talks, BS walks. Lets see how much BS this player has in him. There is no sense in giving away a player like Sua. We can always use tackling dummies, we can always use quality players on the field, we can always use more players on the suspended/retired list too. Sua has a place here, Its up to him to decide where that is. If he convinces a team that he's committed to playing again then he's committed to playing here. No way would it be good to see him play elsewhere if it means giving him away for nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Chacon Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 hour ago, bobandweave said: What's with this team and these guys? If this guy wants to play then give him a chance to play. Trade him only if equal value or greater value can be received. Simple rule for trading. A fourth round pick for a second round pick? No thanks. A good player for a second round pick? Sure why not. I would take Manny Sanders for Sua straight up. Or Demaryius and kick in a 7th round pick. Either player works. A drafted player can play for the team or decide not to. We own these guys. Giving him away to another team for a lower draft pick makes no sense. And that could lead to others pulling up chalk and wanting to leave with a full on mutiny to deal with. No thanks. If the guy refuses to play for us ruin his career, suspend him so he can't get paid, sue him for any money given to him, and then see what he does. Money talks, BS walks. Lets see how much BS this player has in him. There is no sense in giving away a player like Sua. We can always use tackling dummies, we can always use quality players on the field, we can always use more players on the suspended/retired list too. Sua has a place here, Its up to him to decide where that is. If he convinces a team that he's committed to playing again then he's committed to playing here. No way would it be good to see him play elsewhere if it means giving him away for nothing Bravo!!... This is exactly how I feel... Keep the guy and make him earn a career... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Denver had a First Round grade on Cravens in the Draft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 10 hours ago, celticsalmon said: This team is not good enough to dismiss a player with Craven's potential. 20 minutes ago, TK said: Denver had a First Round grade on Cravens in the Draft... Realistically can We get a third? I would hope for a fourth at this point./ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 6 hours ago, bobandweave said: What's with this team and these guys? If this guy wants to play then give him a chance to play. Trade him only if equal value or greater value can be received. Simple rule for trading. A fourth round pick for a second round pick? No thanks. A good player for a second round pick? Sure why not. I would take Manny Sanders for Sua straight up. Or Demaryius and kick in a 7th round pick. Either player works. But value is exactly what's making him worth trading. When a player straight up quits and says he doesn't want to come back, his value is zero. Him coming back raises his value somewhat, but it is nowhere near a 2nd. 2nd round picks do sometimes bust. Most of them are from just being straight up bad and not worth the pick, so they hit FA like most other average players. Sua 's a bust because his will to play that's in question, but it has the same ending: He gets less than we paid for because he wasn't worth what we paid for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 33 minutes ago, NickyJ said: But value is exactly what's making him worth trading. When a player straight up quits and says he doesn't want to come back, his value is zero. Him coming back raises his value somewhat, but it is nowhere near a 2nd. 2nd round picks do sometimes bust. Most of them are from just being straight up bad and not worth the pick, so they hit FA like most other average players. Sua 's a bust because his will to play that's in question, but it has the same ending: He gets less than we paid for because he wasn't worth what we paid for him. I get what your saying I just don’t agree with it. Players play hardball with teams all the time. Some times it’s with refusing to sign a deal like Kirk did us which made then look foolish and overpay for one season. sometimes it takes shape with a player refusing to play for the team that drafted the player like Eli did to the Chargers and makes them look foolish and sometimes it’s by someone who takes his ball and goes home. Player games with teams takes many shapes. The question is how does a team deal with it? Should the team give into the player and give them what they demand and release or trade them? Should the team be taken hostage by the player and sell pennies on the dollar just to get something for him like your saying? I get the point it’s something for him but at what cost I say no. I think doing that leads to slippery slopes with no real understanding of who else is affected by this in the future. I think it’s a bad look for the team. I look at teams who are run like the Steelers who run a tight ship where players who speak out against the team are deactivated like Martavius Bryant was a game this season and getting it right. I think what the Eagles did with Owens was the right thing to do. What would the Steelers do with this Sua situation? To me they would welcome him back and not trade him. If he flops again then they saved the franchise future embarrassment should another player try the same thing. Maybe after a season of giving him another shot they might move him then but after taking millions and not playing last season but having no issue rocking out on the USC sidelines? I don’t think they would release him. As you said what is at stake here if they welcome him back? A mid or late draft pick? Is that worth damaging the team? Not to me. Its just another way of looking at it. Sure that mid or late round pick could possibly help but it comes with a cost and that cost is too big to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I also see your point, but when Sua quit, it didn't sound at all like it was him playing hardball with the team. I haven't heard him say anything now about playing hardball now that he wants to come back. He genuinely didn't want to play for anyone. Whether he actually does stay in the game now is anyone's guess, but we'd be gambling either way: We bet that his head stays in the game permanently, that he's still in shape, AND that he can still gel with the teammates; or we gamble that he isn't worth what we paid for him, so to get even a tiny payment back is better than nothing. I'm not extremely inclined either way since anything from a 5th rounder down is pocket change, but I definitely wouldn't blame the team for trying to recover what they can from his pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 According to NBC Sports Washington’s J.P. Finlay, the Denver Broncos had a first-round grade on Su’a Cravens prior to the 2016 NFL Draft. As we know, the Broncos ended up trading a third-round pick to move up to select quarterback Paxton Lynch, so they never really had a chance to select him in the first-round. He ended up going to Washington in the second round, pick 53, 10 picks before the Broncos selected defensive lineman Adam Gotsis with the 63rd pick. Now, the Broncos are on the verge of adding a player they put a first-round grade on to their defense for a relatively cheap price all things considered. Yes, he has had some concussion concerns, but the talent is there and he can become an instant impact player for the Broncos .defense This potential trade also knocks two big needs off the Broncos list as they head into free agency. They needed another inside linebacker who can cover backs and tight ends when they’re in sub-packages, and they needed another safety with Darian Stewart coming off a down year and being a potential cap cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Chacon Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I think the best decision is to keep him... The kid has talent, he showed that... the kid is healthy, the concussion thing I think wasp out there to 'mask' his real problem... which is, psychological issue... He's 21 years old for crying out loud, he had a meltdown, he showed his emotionally weak and probably the transition to the pros was harder for him than for others... he wanted to quit football... not the Redskins... Redskins have a team of sports psychologist that can help him... and in the lockeroom, here is what a true leader can make a difference... here is where we need DJ and Norman to step up and strong figures, take the kid under their wing and help him gain the confidence he needs to succeed... "he's a broken product'... c'mon guys... like if you never had a rough patch, questions and doubts... give the kid another chance, the upside is great, the risk is very low... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 15 hours ago, SWFLSkins said: Realistically can We get a third? I would hope for a fourth at this point./ Then again, why pull the trigger? We have a guy who is talented, played well, and is under team control for 2-3 more years on a cheap contract. Figure out a way to use him if you can't get good value back for him. It doesn't sound like the players are pissed off at him at all...I could certainly be wrong about that aspect of it though. If they are, then I guess you have to get something for him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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