Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

[visionary]

 

[tshile]

 

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Some folks narrow their choices to try to make up for other folks doing the same.

 

I'm down with eliminating affirmative action once whites are jus another minority group, but we aren't there yet.

 

that’s fine.  You own it. That doesn’t mean it’s right. But at least you don’t pretend you can fool people with some bogus reason. I respect honesty. 
 

and even if I don’t agree with the means you’re about I definitely agree with the ends your about. Like I said - I see the different motives and some are understandable and respectable while others aren’t. Yours are respectable in my opinion. 

 

 

55 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

We are talking about 2 different things.  I first said that it's pretty reasonable to think that, regardless of any gender considerations, the 10 most qualified people for VP could easily be all women, which you agreed with but took issue with how he presented it. 
 

 

I was just pointing out that while your theory is absolutely plausible, that it’s not what was said and you’re just throwing a possible theory out there with nothing to back it. That’s all. 
 

(Research I’ve read shows women to be better leaders, better financial decision makers, and (contrary to our sexist fellow citizens opinion) are generally in better control and understanding of emotions (of theirs and others which is super important to leadership. I do not doubt it is possible to creat a list of qualified people for a leadership position that happens to only include women. I completely understand how that is possible. Are the progressives willing to admit it’s possible to come up with only white men😂 we both know the answer to that cause they tell us all the time.  Who has problems with equality and who doesn’t?)

 

 

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Then I said the only people that took issue with the presentation are cranky white men, everyone else thought it was smart.  Now you are back to the first thing.  Do you have a specific white man in mind that should have been at or near the top of the list, or are you just assuming their must be some white man out there somewhere that deserves the job?

this idea that everyone else thought it was smart is worse than the idea that he must have put together a list of the most qualified and it happened to only contain women. At least the list argument is plausible. 
 

im not qualified to put together a list of democrats qualified for vp. That doesn’t mean I can’t look at a pick or a candidates resume and determine how qualified I think they are. Or compare them to another specific candidate re: qualifications. Just that I do not know the party’s “farm system” at all much less enough to put a list together. 
 

but were I qualified and so inclined I can promise I wouldn’t start with the motive of creating a list of white men. I also wouldn’t put any effort into making sure there was at least one white man. Or some % of white men to reflect their portion of the population due to some misguided notion (or outright attempt to deceive others) that measuring people that way has any validity to picking based on qualifications. 
 

all I’d have to do is flip some descriptions around and you’d flip from arguing for it to arguing against it. 
 

you cannot say the same for me. 
 

so who’s for equality and who’s not? 🧐
 

(just taking a shot there since you want to call me a cranky white man for some reason. I don’t think you’re not for equality  )

[Renegade7]

@PleaseBlitz I accept your challenge, to confirm, are you saying Pete will not get a cabinet position period in the Biden administration?  Thats the extreme hill you choosing to die on? 

 

I dont want to rush to pick your avatar if that's how you want to go out.  We can PM terms of surrender and shake hands here if this is really where you are with this : )

[tshile]

Oh oh oh I want to help pick the avatar!

[PleaseBlitz]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

 

I was just pointing out that while your theory is absolutely plausible, that it’s not what was said and you’re just throwing a possible theory out there with nothing to back it. That’s all. 
 

(Research I’ve read shows women to be better leaders, better financial decision makers, and (contrary to our sexist fellow citizens opinion) generally in better control and understanding of emotions. I do not doubt it is possible to creat a list of qualified people for a leadership position that happens to only include women. I completely understand how that is possible. Are the progressives willing to admit it’s possible to come up with only white men😂 we both know the answer to that cause they tell us all the time.  Who has problems with equality and who doesn’t?)

 

Well, I've asked you to name one white man that should have gotten consideration, so far you haven't offered a name.  I'll note that "excluding a specific race, gender, or religion right off the bat" has happened in nearly every Presidential election ever, just not in the way you don't like. 

 

 

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this idea that everyone else thought it was smart is worse than the idea that he must have put together a list of the most qualified and it happened to only contain women. At least the list argument is plausible. 
 

im not qualified to put together a list of democrats qualified for vp. That doesn’t mean I can’t look at a pick or a candidates resume and determine how qualified I think they are. Or compare them to another specific candidate re: qualifications. Just that I do not know the party’s “farm system” at all much less enough to put a list together. 
 

but were I qualified and so inclined I can promise I wouldn’t create a list of white men. I also wouldn’t put any effort into making sure there was at least one white man. Or some % of white men to reflect their portion of the population due to some misguided notion (or outright attempt to deceive others) that measuring people that way has any validity to picking based on qualifications. 
 

all I’d have to do is flip some descriptions around and you’d flip from arguing for it to arguing against it. 
 

you cannot say the same for me. 
 

so who’s for equality and who’s not? 🧐

 

This argument falls apart because you cannot name a single white guy that realistically deserved consideration.  If there was one, then I would agree with you.  But there really aren't any, so it makes sense that Biden would say so far in advance.  In addition, where the person that won the nomination is an old white guy, it makes a lot of sense to add someone that doesn't fit the same description to the ticket, especially when the driving force behind your candidacy is not older white men, it's women and people of color.  God forbid you give your voters what they want.

[tshile]

10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Well, I've asked you to name one white man that should have gotten consideration, so far you haven't offered a name.  I'll note that "excluding a specific race, gender, or religion right off the bat" has happened in nearly every Presidential election ever, just not in the way you don't like. 

That’s unfair. I quite clearly said I don’t like it. And said I hated it more than the Dems because of the motives. 
 

you’re in “two wrongs make a right” territory. I try to avoid it. Although I specifically said I understand why some people are there, and that I ultimately respect why they’re there and the ends they’re seeking, I just don’t like the means. 

[PleaseBlitz]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@PleaseBlitz I accept your challenge, to confirm, are you saying Pete will not get a cabinet position period in the Biden administration?  Thats the extreme hill you choosing to die on? 

 

I dont want to rush to pick your avatar if that's how you want to go out.  We can PM terms of surrender and shake hands here if this is really where you are with this : )

 

Agreed.  I'll just note that there are only 16 cabinet positions.  Lower positions don't count.  

[88Comrade2000]

Here's  the Cabinet positions:

 

*Vice President of the United States
*Department of State
*Department of the Treasury
*Department of Defense
*Department of Justice
Department of the Interior
Department of Agriculture
Department of Commerce
Department of Labor
Department of Health and Human Services
Department of Housing and Urban Development
Department of Transportation
Department of Energy
Department of Education
Department of Veterans Affairs
Department of Homeland Security

The following positions have the status of Cabinet-rank:
 
*White House Chief of Staff
Environmental Protection Agency
Office of Management & Budget
United States Trade Representative
United States Mission to the United Nations
Council of Economic Advisers
Small Business Administration
 

I put a * by the key positions.  Vice, State, Treasury, Defense, Justice and Chief of Staff.  I think those are the key positions in any president's cabinet.  With the exception of Justice- Attorney General; Biden will pick people he's most familiar and comfortable with.  For Justice, he will probably be willing to go with the unfamiliar.  Kamala Harris would be perfect here, if she isn't the Veep.   There's still 17 positions that need to be filled.  So, plenty of positions to give younger Democrats a position.  Someone like Mayor Pete has plenty of jobs to take.   Joe will be working alot with State, Defense, Treasury; so those positions will filled by people Joe knows and has previous experience working with them.  Chief of Staff will be key to running the White House; so it will be someone he's familiar with. I could see Chris Dodd, who's on his veep vetting team; taking that position.  The others presents plenty of opportunities to fill it with younger Democrats.  

[gbear]

One white guy?  Cuomo or Bloomberg come to mind.  I am not saying I would pick them, but both seem like plausible top ten nominees depending upon one's criteria, and I am not picking any current congressmen or senators who might also have decent qualifications.

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[tshile]

11 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

This argument falls apart because you cannot name a single white guy that realistically deserved consideration.  If there was one, then I would agree with you.  But there really aren't any, so it makes sense that Biden would say so far in advance. 
 

 

not really. My argument was to why I couldn’t make that list and what my motives would not be if I were able to make a list. 
 

nothing about that has fallen apart here. 
 

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In addition, where the person that won the nomination is an old white guy, it makes a lot of sense to add someone that doesn't fit the same description to the ticket, especially when the driving force behind your candidacy is not older white men, it's women and people of color.  God forbid you give your voters what they want.

 

I don’t disagree with any of that. In fact I stated that I understand it’s part or the game, with examples
 

I disagreed that a genuine search for the most qualified person can start with excluding a category of people based on gender/race. 
 

And when you suggested that maybe they didn’t do that, that maybe they put a list of top 10 together and it just so happened none of them were white mean, I believe my response was that your theory was certainly plausible. And I added reasons outside of politics (research on women in roles of authority and how they fair, which spans sectors from stock trading and investments to generic management of people). All I said was that was not the reason given, it’s just an idea you threw out there. 
 

 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Agreed.  I'll just note that there are only 16 cabinet positions.  Lower positions don't count.  

 

Based on these terms, we talking 4-8 years before you can cash in on this bet right? 

 

You and @Voice of Reason should probably chat 

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, tshile said:

I don’t disagree with any of that. 
 

I disagreed that a genuine search for the most qualified person can start with excluding a category of people based on gender/race. 
 

And when you suggested that maybe they didn’t do that, that maybe they put a list of top 10 together and it just so happened none of them were white mean, I believe my response was that your theory was certainly plausible. And I added reasons outside of politics (research on women in roles of authority and how they fair, which spans sectors from stock trading and investments to generic management of people). All I said was that was not the reason given, it’s just an idea you threw out there. 

 

I'm suggesting that it did not start there.  I'm suggesting that it became very apparent very quickly that the choice, based entirely on the merits (including political considerations) was going to be a woman, and so Biden said so. 

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Based on these terms, we talking 4-8 years before you can cash in on this bet right? 

 

You and @Voice of Reason should probably chat 

 

We could limit it to his initial cabinet. 

[tshile]

Add

“giving voters what they want” is an interesting argument to propose given how dumb the majority of our people are. 

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I'm suggesting that it did not start there.  I'm suggesting that it became very apparent very quickly that the choice, based entirely on the merits (including political considerations) was going to be a woman, and so Biden said so. 

Cool. Certainly plausible. But not what they said. 
 

but I will grant you that this will be their narrative to explain it going forward😂

[88Comrade2000]

Mayor Pete was Mayor of City and was in the military.    

 

Positions that seem right for him:

 

Department of Housing and Urban Development

Department of Veterans Affairs
Department of Homeland Security

United States Mission to the United Nations - U.N. Ambassador

 

 

[PleaseBlitz]

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

Cool. Certainly plausible. But not what they said. 
 

but I will grant you that this will be their narrative to explain it going forward😂

 

Sorry, I guess, that politicians give a lot of thought to decisions,* but don't lay all of that out in public?

 

*Obviously, the current POTUS does not do that, and also consistently makes catastrophic decisions.  But hey, at least he's not racist or sexist. 

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

We could limit it to his initial cabinet. 

 

In context of this conversation, I can dig it. How long we keep the avatars if we lose?

 

For reference, Julian Castro was youngest member of Obama's cabinet when appointed to HUD after being Mayor of San Antonio. 

 

You are taking an extreme position here, this is almost same path Julian took to get into Obama's cabinet. Come back to the middle, bro.

[Dan T.]

For some perspective on the recent dialog in here, it helps to keep in mind that for the first two-thirds of this nation's existence, women weren't even allowed to vote.  So they've got some catching up to do.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

In context of this conversation, I can dig it. How long we keep the avatars if we lose?

 

For reference, Julian Castro was youngest member of Obama's cabinet when appointed to HUD after being Mayor of San Antonio. 

 

You are taking an extreme position here, this is almost same path Julian took to get into Obama's cabinet. Come back to the middle, bro.

 

Up to you.  2 weeks?  I'm up for whatever.  

 

You keep telling me I'm taking an extreme position, I don't think I am.  So lets limit it to Biden's initial cabinet selections so we don't have to wait 8 years and take the bet.  It's all in good fun. 

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Up to you.  2 weeks?  I'm up for whatever.  

 

You keep telling me I'm taking an extreme position, I don't think I am.  So lets limit it to Biden's initial cabinet selections so we don't have to wait 8 years and take the bet.  It's all in good fun. 

 

Deal. 

[Wildbunny]

17 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Mayor Pete was Mayor of City and was in the military.    

 

Positions that seem right for him:

 

Department of Housing and Urban Development

Department of Veterans Affairs
Department of Homeland Security

United States Mission to the United Nations - U.N. Ambassador

 

 

In France, you'd be sure that with such a pedigree the guy would land anywhere but where he's more qualified, because in Politics, you don't put guys where they are qualified, you put them where they can harm you less. Or where you think they'll fail blatantly and sack them at the first opportunity.

 

I do think that's alike in the US, so the guy won't probably get any of those positions.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I would like if Biden announced his cabinet ahead of time and, since he said its going to be an accurate reflection of America, I think it should have some white male conservatives on there. I don’t see why you can’t have a Romney or a Kasich on there. Probably the biggest issue during his presidency is going to be the divisiveness within our country.

 

Treasury needs to be Warren

[spjunkies]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I would like if Biden announced his cabinet ahead of time and, since he said its going to be an accurate reflection of America, I think it should have some white make conservatives on there. I don’t see why you can’t have a Romney or a Kasich on there. Probably the biggest issue during his presidency is going to be the divisiveness within our country.

 

Treasury needs to be Warren

 

I don't hate any of these ideas. 

[DCranon21]

He's an ****ing idiot. Misogyny on line 1. 

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

20 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I don’t see why you can’t have a Romney or a Kasich on there. 

I would love to see Kasich as budget director.