Renegade7 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Springfield said: I think that people would rather have their jobs that they already have than to take a lesser paying job in their current field (due to cost cutting measures) or lose a job in their current field (due to job elimination). The evil that you know versus the uncertainty of the evil you don’t. You frame it as M4A vs Trump. I frame it as a lesser version for no Trump. You frame it that way because it's still primaries. Once its general election and if its say Bernie vs Trump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said: They vote, in greater numbers then the younger folks. You want your MFA, free college, etc.. then you young folks will have to vote in greater numbers than the older folks in the democratic primary; to give the nomination to Warren or Sanders. Then in the fall, you will have to do the same thing in the key electoral states. If you do that, then you can have your progressive dreams come true in 2021. Otherwise you will have to wait 4 to possibly 8 years; when enough older folks have died off. When the younger people are the majority of the voting public, then you will get the policies you want. I don't see that happening in 2020. I could be wrong but history shows I am more right than wrong here. I get your point, but that's already happening and major cause for the blue wave last year https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/05/29/gen-z-millennials-and-gen-x-outvoted-older-generations-in-2018-midterms/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: You frame it that way because it's still primaries. Once its general election and if its say Bernie vs Trump... You sure are up early and feisty this morning. Happy thanksgiving! It is still the primaries. We get to choose how we want to frame the battle. For me, it's my opinion that America will better swallow gradual improvements on ACA that work towards M4A eventually. Not this upcoming presidency, but perhaps future ones once the boomers start to die off. Let's face it. Even the modest improvements that Biden is preposing are probably a crapshoot if republicans still retain control of congress. They've shown that they'll block anything that comes across that isn't stunningly backwards. No matter who the candidate it, health care reform is probably not happening. I think the next presidency will possibly be the most unproductive and gridlocked one ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 54 minutes ago, Springfield said: You sure are up early and feisty this morning. Happy thanksgiving! It is still the primaries. We get to choose how we want to frame the battle. For me, it's my opinion that America will better swallow gradual improvements on ACA that work towards M4A eventually. Not this upcoming presidency, but perhaps future ones once the boomers start to die off. Let's face it. Even the modest improvements that Biden is preposing are probably a crapshoot if republicans still retain control of congress. They've shown that they'll block anything that comes across that isn't stunningly backwards. No matter who the candidate it, health care reform is probably not happening. I think the next presidency will possibly be the most unproductive and gridlocked one ever. I had to get the Turkey in the oven, happy thanksgiving to you as well : ) but your point on republicans blocking everything Dems propose is why I believe it's a waste of time trying to find something they find palatable. They will label Biden a socialist anyway, you might as well set the bar high and expect it be forced back down to earth then start at ground level and get stepped on. again, people need help now. if we want the youth vote, we have to give them something they want and need. The other side doesnt care if we find their plans digestable, that's what we competing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I had to get the Turkey in the oven, happy thanksgiving to you as well : ) but your point on republicans blocking everything Dems propose is why I believe it's a waste of time trying to find something they find palatable. They will label Biden a socialist anyway, you might as well set the bar high and expect it be forced back down to earth then start at ground level and get stepped on. again, people need help now. if we want the youth vote, we have to give them something they want and need. The other side doesnt care if we find their plans digestable, that's what we competing with. I agree that anyone running will be labeled a socialist. I think the people are at least smart enough to tell the difference between the varying candidates. I don't think the people are smart enough to realize that none of them are actually socialists though. I don't think the youth vote is going to do it. I do think that the youth support someone like Bernie, but not much else, and I think they support him as a cult of personality over much else. He makes a lot of sense with what he says, but he always shouts everything he says. I doubt that the youth will get behind many other candidates except for possibly Buttigueg (or the super long shot Yang). Biden, Warren and the rest are kinda lame-oes. The youth need someone cool like Obama to vote for, otherwise I think they won't show up no matter how many years of free school you promise them. I think the middle class, educated, 30-45 vote is what the democrats need to be shooting for. That's a block that will mobilize and vote in force. Bonus points if they're kinda cool. One of the reasons I support Buttigueg; I think he can appeal to most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 44 minutes ago, Springfield said: I agree that anyone running will be labeled a socialist. I think the people are at least smart enough to tell the difference between the varying candidates. I don't think the people are smart enough to realize that none of them are actually socialists though. I don't think the youth vote is going to do it. I do think that the youth support someone like Bernie, but not much else, and I think they support him as a cult of personality over much else. He makes a lot of sense with what he says, but he always shouts everything he says. I doubt that the youth will get behind many other candidates except for possibly Buttigueg (or the super long shot Yang). Biden, Warren and the rest are kinda lame-oes. The youth need someone cool like Obama to vote for, otherwise I think they won't show up no matter how many years of free school you promise them. I think the middle class, educated, 30-45 vote is what the democrats need to be shooting for. That's a block that will mobilize and vote in force. Bonus points if they're kinda cool. One of the reasons I support Buttigueg; I think he can appeal to most people. Gotta say this comes across like a very stereotypical representation of youth. Did you read the article I posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: Gotta say this comes across like a very stereotypical representation of youth. Did you read the article I posted? I didn’t until just now. The mb layout doesn’t show links easily. Still, the younger generations (millennial and Z) only accounted for about 25% of the vote in 2018. I think Gen X and boomers are the ones who will largely shun M4A. It’s going to be hard for a candidate to win the election based on millennials and Z, even with them growing the next election. Also, a side note, millennials are kinda fractured because it’s such a huge spectrum of people. You’ve got older millennials like myself (37) that simply don’t relate to the younger end of the spectrum. I don’t care about college education, like at all. I don’t care about the cost either because my kids won’t be close to that age for well over a decade. I think, amongst millennials, you’ll find some that vote like gen x’ers and some that don’t. For that, I think they’re hardly a reliable block as a whole and need to be approached at many different angles. Long story short. The youth counts, but I think a winning candidate will need to win a majority of Gen X and some boomers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 On 11/27/2019 at 2:02 PM, NoCalMike said: I work for a vision insurance company, if vision is ultimately covered under M4A, one day it could mean my job goes away or at least the company I work for goes away and I will have to go enter the market again to look for a job. My response? So be it. I like and agree with your mindset on this unfortunately it’s also how you lose elections. This doesn’t play any better than telling poor people that the answer to their poverty problem is to get a job and work harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Admiring the longevity of the notion that we must allow for-profit corporations to sit between people and their healthcare, because of the legions of clerks they employ. Y'all do realize you're literally arguing that the federal government is vastly more efficient that for-profit corporations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Yep, the same government that managed to lose pallets of cash. That one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Jumbo said: clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right Well... ..and eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Would have got away with it too if it wasn't for that meddling Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 If this is so, she needs to stay in the Senate so she can grill Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Surprised it's only 53%. Lincoln did free the slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Jumbo said: clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right Time to pull out the shaving razor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: Surprised it's only 53%. Lincoln did free the slaves. Who the **** are the 6% Dems and 22% independents? They have to be trolling or misheard the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: Surprised it's only 53%. Lincoln did free the slaves. And start the Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Larry said: And start the Civil War. *War of Northern Aggression 15 minutes ago, bearrock said: Who the **** are the 6% Dems and 22% independents? They have to be trolling or misheard the question People who haven't officially changed their registration or just trolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Funny thing, we were briefly talking presidents at work today. I said that Barack Obama was the best president of my lifetime. My coworker said Ronald Reagan. I said it’s Reagan’s fault we are in this stupid tax mess in the first place. Then we changed topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 22 hours ago, Cooked Crack said: Is every argument against anything the far left proposes a republican talking point now? I generally like AOC but if she's trying to become a gatekeeper and deciding who the real democrats are and what arguments should be allowed, that's going to change in a hurry. I'm on board with government health care. I view it as a major priority. US health care isn't just bad, it's killing people and ruining other financially. It's a national embarrassment that should shame us all. After this gets fixed, not proposed but actually enacted into law, I'm happy to hear discussions on government involvement in tuition. Now isn't the time to try to shoe horn every issues socialists want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 On 11/27/2019 at 9:46 AM, Jumbo said: interesting...your take on the author seems the polar opposite to a number well known widely respected public political figures of color who really praise him as a writer and an intellect...i have read only 3-4 pieces of his actual work and don't have a dog in any fight on this, but your reaction just struck me in such stark contrast to virtually every other i've heard/seen so far I've really come to hate the lefts messaging on race and class. I think two things are happening at the moment. Poor whites are fleeing the party because they are attracted to a message of racial grievance championed by the very awful cast of the current GOP. And that this environment is partially possible because left wing commentators on racial issues use the concept of white privilege in a way that really does a disservice on class and racial issues. I think there was once a time when class and race were very deeply intertwined in the US but I think we are at the point where race is no longer a particularly unique identifier of privilege. I wish we talked more about privilege in a way that highlights how class is beginning to transcend racial hierarchies in our politics. Right now in Howard County (Maryland), one of the richest parts of the country, a group of rich parents is blocking a set of policies that would desegregate schools along economic lines. And some of the staunchest opponents of these policies are Indian American and Chinese American parents, along with white parents, who are blocking a set of rules that would mostly benefit poor black and Latino students. So is Mayor Pete's past statements on education indicative of his whiteness or his sheltered, upper-middle class upbringing? While the two are intertwined to some extent, his class privilege to me is far more indicative of his views than his racial identity. His statements are universally brought up as facts in the Asian American community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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