So how did you deal with your family, friends who are Trump supporters or just voted for him, because he was GOP?

[Kilmer17]

15 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

 Honestly, it's those people I have the biggest problem with.

 

It's like you took a dump all over my living room floor and went to mall.

Most of them are small business owners, middle class families that are looking at a couple of college tuitions and a marriage or two in their future.  It's not that they don't care, it's just so far down on their list of priorities that it's not important if Trump doesnt condemn nazi's.  

[mrcunning15]

 

If these people are so worried about the economy/money don't they remember what happened the last time an R was in office. So I don't really buy that as a valid reason.

[Kilmer17]

4 minutes ago, mrcunning15 said:

 

If these people are so worried about the economy/money don't they remember what happened the last time an R was in office. So I don't really buy that as a valid reason.

Again, that's trying to force a macro view on people that are living in a micro world.  And most of my friends survived and thrived during the Bush years.  Or dont look at the letter in front of the POTUS as a determining factor in economic situations.

[zoony]

18 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

I'd say the majority of my closest friends either voted for Trump or 3rd party.  And pretty much all of them are more concerned about their kids sports, school or their own daily lives than anything going on with Trump.  Sure they'll say things like "that's crazy!"  but then whistle on down the road.

 

I'd bet serious money that if the election were rerun today in Manatee County, there wouldn't be much of a difference in the totals.

 

So what youre saying is that there are people who arent hysterical children with 1500 posts on a football message board about trump and who constantly troll twitter and think the country is coming to an end?

 

I dont believe you.  Sorry

[Kilmer17]

10 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

So what youre saying is that there are people who arent hysterical children with 1500 posts on a football message board about trump and who constantly troll twitter and think the country is coming to an end?

 

I dont believe you.  Sorry

Well, not cool people anyway....

[The Evil Genius]

42 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Most of them are small business owners, middle class families that are looking at a couple of college tuitions and a marriage or two in their future.  It's not that they don't care, it's just so far down on their list of priorities that it's not important if Trump doesnt condemn nazi's.  

 

To be honest. That's probably a sign of white privilege right there (but I'm sure you'll remind us that your friends aren't all white).

 

So maybe..a sign of mostly white, mostly Christian, mostly heterosexual privilege? Maybe the social position of the alt right Trumpster fire administration don't bother them because the bubble they live is entirely vanilla flavored.

 

[mrcunning15]

19 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Again, that's trying to force a macro view on people that are living in a micro world.  And most of my friends survived and thrived during the Bush years.  Or dont look at the letter in front of the POTUS as a determining factor in economic situations.

1

 

I can respect that to a degree I just think in general business owners are more likely to blame all their problems on regulation or some other Democrat boogeyman when in reality the effects are just merely overstated to score political points. 

 

Your friends might have survived and thrived but at what cost? It would seem like if they want to repeat that cycle through a vote for the R they're just going to leave the world/economy in a bad place, seems rather selfish but what ever **** you I got mine amiright. 

[Kilmer17]

8 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

To be honest. That's probably a sign of white privilege right there (but I'm sure you'll remind us that your friends aren't all white).

 

So maybe..a sign of mostly white, mostly Christian, mostly heterosexual privilege? Maybe the social position of the alt right Trumpster fire administration don't bother them because the bubble they live is entirely vanilla flavored.

 

I think that's probably true.

7 minutes ago, mrcunning15 said:

 

I can respect that to a degree I just think in general business owners are more likely to blame all their problems on regulation or some other Democrat boogeyman when in reality the effects are just merely overstated to score political points. 

 

Your friends might have survived and thrived but at what cost? It would seem like if they want to repeat that cycle through a vote for the R they're just going to leave the world/economy in a bad place, seems rather selfish but what ever **** you I got mine amiright. 

I think the last part is an issue in our country.  The idea that those being selfish (and I admittedly am) are somehow doing awesome in life without struggle and sacrifice.  I realize i's first world problems, but most of my friends do worry about their future and their kids future.  Most of them do make sacrifices and hard decisions regarding their life and financial situations.  But any attempt to talk about those issues get overwhelmed by the idea that because someone else is doing worse, I shouldnt be allowed to do any better.   

[AsburySkinsFan]

58 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Most of them are small business owners, middle class families that are looking at a couple of college tuitions and a marriage or two in their future.  It's not that they don't care, it's just so far down on their list of priorities that it's not important if Trump doesnt condemn nazi's.  

And THAT is the problem.

condemning Nazis unequivocably is the EASIEST thing a politician can do. If Trump cannot bring himself to oppose ******* Nazis then how can I trust him with ANYTHING else?

[mrcunning15]

9 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think the last part is an issue in our country.  The idea that those being selfish (and I admittedly am) are somehow doing awesome in life without struggle and sacrifice.

 

I didn't say anything about somehow doing awesome everyone has to struggle and sacrifice in this life if they want to make something of it, I just think it's short sighted and stupid to want to repeat that cycle for short term gain. I get it if I owned a business that for some reason did better under R administration I could see how someone could just vote straight R and with their pocketbook doesn't make it right but i get it, but I would also want to ensure that it could survive under any environment R or D admin.

[Fresh8686]

26 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think that's probably true.

I think the last part is an issue in our country.  The idea that those being selfish (and I admittedly am) are somehow doing awesome in life without struggle and sacrifice.  I realize i's first world problems, but most of my friends do worry about their future and their kids future.  Most of them do make sacrifices and hard decisions regarding their life and financial situations.  But any attempt to talk about those issues get overwhelmed by the idea that because someone else is doing worse, I shouldnt be allowed to do any better.   

Do you and others around you really believe that people think you shouldn't be allowed to do any better? From where I stand, that seems to be a distortion rooted in defensiveness at what you neglect and ignore in order to continue to be selfish and isolated within this distorted bubble of reality. Maybe what their saying is you shouldn't be allowed to pursue avenues of betterment that in the process **** people over around you and violate the tenents of decency and human character.

Again, there is a right way to win or succeed and a wrong way. It seems to me that people who fail to differentiate between the two also fail to understand why people have a problem with the way they choose to advance themselves and who they choose to support to represent and direct this nation.

Those sacrifices and hard decisions you mention are things nearly everyone has to deal with IN ADDITION to not being selfish to such a degree, and choosing to ignore choices made by people that disrupt and destroy our social fabric and ability to trust and engage with each other as a society. We all have a responsibility to some degree of stewardship for this country and world. People don't get to abrogate that responsibility and then expect sympathy because people respond to the assholishness of such a choice.

 

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, Fresh8686 said:

Do you and others around you really believe that people think you shouldn't be allowed to do any better? From where I stand, that seems to be a distortion rooted in defensiveness at what you neglect and ignore in order to continue to be selfish and isolated within this distorted bubble of reality. Maybe what their saying is you shouldn't be allowed to pursue avenues of betterment that in the process **** people over around you and violate the tenents of decency and human character.

 

Not really.  But I do believe that some people think that people shouldn't COMPLAIN about not doing better when others are doing worse.  That a small business owner in the upper class of a small town has a responsibility to someone, something other than his own business and family first until he reaches the point that he IS satisfied with his own situation.

 

This is a seriously finite debate point in the grand scheme of things.  It kind of got narrowed down in this thread.  Not really sure if it matters.

[Fresh8686]

22 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Not really.  But I do believe that some people think that people shouldn't COMPLAIN about not doing better when others are doing worse.  That a small business owner in the upper class of a small town has a responsibility to someone, something other than his own business and family first until he reaches the point that he IS satisfied with his own situation.

 

This is a seriously finite debate point in the grand scheme of things.  It kind of got narrowed down in this thread.  Not really sure if it matters.

I'm sure there are some people who feel that way. It is annoying for a person who is living paycheck to paycheck and struggling to survive to hear another person complain about being broke for the week, when really they have over a million in savings. I know quite a few people with money who act that way. However, that's (immature) human nature to hyperbolize things within their situation, while being out of touch with another's experience. One is complaining about their struggle for more comfort, the other one is complaining about their struggle to maintain the basic levels of shelter and safety. The contrast brings about the feeling of annoyance.

As far as responsibility, I don't look at it in a binary way, but within a superimposed trinity that requires dynamic balance.

 

1.) I have a responsibility for my own individual world

2.) I have a responsibility for the world we share and co-create on micro and macro levels

3.) I have a responsibility to not unduly infringe, impinge, or oppress your own individual world

 

The aim is to harmonize those three responsibilities so they synergize rather than conflict with each other as my capacities to be responsible for all three worlds increase and become more abundant. To me, that is the right way to go about achieving success, while also being responsible.

If I am neglecting either of the three, then I can justifiably be considered an asshole. And there are a lot of justifiable assholes in this world, based on this standard. And I say that as a person who is working hard to not be such an asshole himself, because it is a difficult balance to maintain, but extremely worthwhile.



 

[First Colony]

7 hours ago, skinsmarydu said:

Super hard in my biz, where "making friends and influencing people" keeps "my base". 

Timing is everything, some times are less than optimal, so I keep it to a bare minimum at work. 

Oh see, now I'm gonna spend the rest of the day thinking about you and "the bare minimum".

[tshile]

6 hours ago, zoony said:

 

So what youre saying is that there are people who arent hysterical children with 1500 posts on a football message board about trump and who constantly troll twitter and think the country is coming to an end?

 

I dont believe you.  Sorry

i was with you up until the invade every country stuff and now the nazi stuff

i took plenty of flak for making fun of them here.

i really was with you.

 

now i can't blame them

 

[tshile]

6 hours ago, mrcunning15 said:

 

I can respect that to a degree I just think in general business owners are more likely to blame all their problems on regulation or some other Democrat boogeyman when in reality the effects are just merely overstated to score political points. 

 

i remember listening to the ceo of a company i worked for **** about how the taxes make it impossible for him to do certain things.

 

he was so horrible at managing finances, and spent so much money so inappropriately, the idea of even considering tax policy as the reason why his business was suffering was laughable.

 

we all eventually left, a group formed a new company and i went with. shocker - things were instantly much better.

 

he eventually lost his company. he is/was an idiot, it just took us a while to realize it. i bet he blames the obama economy and taxes though, because he was such an idiot that introspection was never going to happen.

 

he also thinks we all personally hated him and left just to punish him.

 

he (no joke) bought a bmw x5 with company money and came in a week later and told management they had to lay off majority of their staff

 

he also thought the IRS was picking on him - truth was he used the company as his personal expense account, and probably committed a number of fraudulent acts in the course of it, so he was constantly being audited and fined.

[Kilmer17]

Sounds like a bad businessman.  Capitalism works

[Corcaigh]

30 minutes ago, tshile said:

he (no joke) bought a bmw x5 with company money and came in a week later and told management they had to lay off majority of their staff

 

 

I know of one company owner who announced he would forgo a salary, but he wanted all the costs associated with his private plane to be fully covered.

 

Another local company owner around 2000 bought two Sony robotic dogs for their small office to boost morale. A week later he told them he could not make payroll that month.

 

 

[Jumbo]

i have a friend who' s a general...contractor...and he dealt with them by talking all his bullets and dipping them in pigs blood and...

[NoCalMike]

There's more people then you think that wrap up their entire economic outlook based on their own finances at the given time. 

 

"I got a raise when Bush was in office, soooooooo"

 

[twa]

15 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

There's more people then you think that wrap up their entire economic outlook based on their own finances at the given time. 

 

"I got a raise when Bush was in office, soooooooo"

 

 

Yeah I hear that about Bill Clinton all the time as well.

[tshile]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

There's more people then you think that wrap up their entire economic outlook based on their own finances at the given time. 

 

"I got a raise when Bush was in office, soooooooo"

 

Many people think the government should be run like a household

 

As if people with 50k in annual leverage have any idea what it means to have 18+ trillion in annual leverage and have 320 million people you're responsible for.

 

[JSSkinz]

I will never agree with anyone who is against big business or demonizes successful people or companies, I can't do it because I see the results of what corporate America can do for people of all walks of life.  The problem is if you haven't spent time in the financial industry getting to know these business owners and where they came from and the challenges they face you would never have a clue.

 

 

[Fresh8686]

2 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

I will never agree with anyone who is against big business or demonizes successful people or companies, I can't do it because I see the results of what corporate America can do for people of all walks of life.  The problem is if you haven't spent time in the financial industry getting to know these business owners and where they came from and the challenges they face you would never have a clue.

 

 

Well, most reasonable people aren't against big business, nor demonize success. Their against parasites and predators who short shrift those around them and create both short and long term damage with their actions. What they want is responsible and sustainable business practice that values standards and ethics and shared responsibility just as much if not more then their bottom line. People who consistently behave this way, not just when it's easy, but when it's hard and the pressures on and doing the right thing might even carry risk or loss.

I'm in construction and am right now working personally with two vice-presidents of a multi-billion dollar company on a multi-million dollar government project and within the next four years I will be the co-owner of my current company. I started working their when I was 15, cleaning the place up on the weekends. I'm not saying all that to toot my own horn, but to give some credence to my statements. I've seen first hand the pressure that kind of money can bring and I've seen a lot of people that couldn't handle it and a lot of companies that do shady **** to get it and keep it. And yes, there are also good and ethical people, but the ones who maintain that under pressure are few and far between, at least in my line of work.

Business in America has some cleaning up to do. There are some predatorial cultures and weak people who can't handle the emotional pressures of money that are unfortunately in or around leadership positions. We can do better and have more of a positive influence in this world, even if it means making a little less for some. If you do life right, you work on building your abundance of care, just as much as your abundance of wealth. So that way helping others while helping yourself is just as much of a motivation as material things. 

[JSSkinz]

18 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

Well, most reasonable people aren't against big business, nor demonize success. Their against parasites and predators who short shrift those around them and create both short and long term damage with their actions. What they want is responsible and sustainable business practice that values standards and ethics and shared responsibility just as much if not more then their bottom line. People who consistently behave this way, not just when it's easy, but when it's hard and the pressures on and doing the right thing might even carry risk or loss.

I'm in construction and am right now working personally with two vice-presidents of a multi-billion dollar company on a multi-million dollar government project and within the next four years I will be the co-owner of my current company. I started working their when I was 15, cleaning the place up on the weekends. I'm not saying all that to toot my own horn, but to give some credence to my statements. I've seen first hand the pressure that kind of money can bring and I've seen a lot of people that couldn't handle it and a lot of companies that do shady **** to get it and keep it. And yes, there are also good and ethical people, but the ones who maintain that under pressure are few and far between, at least in my line of work.

Business in America has some cleaning up to do. There are some predatorial cultures and weak people who can't handle the emotional pressures of money that are unfortunately in or around leadership positions. We can do better and have more of a positive influence in this world, even if it means making a little less for some. If you do life right, you work on building your abundance of care, just as much as your abundance of wealth. So that way helping others while helping yourself is just as much of a motivation as material things. 

 

I agree and you are a great example of what I was trying to convey.

 

By the way, when you go off on your own pm so I can help you with those 30,60, and 90-day net terms.  If you're subbing for GC's who are a prime for huge firms like a Mastec then you're going to need some help.  I have a lot of great relationships with many business owners who are in construction.