Redskins losing it's fanbase according to 24/7 Wall street article

[Taylorcooley1]

I sat and watched the 82 championship game against the Cowboys at home and seeing the crowd the way they respond to nowadays didn't seem the same and I cannot believe fans ran out onto the field I thought I saw what  looked like one Redskin player almost punch a fan..it was funny

[DJD2]

How hard is it to understand.

Its the fan experience plain and simple.

[ExoDus84]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I think it's gotten better since we've been winning a little more.  I still can't get over the ticket prices then saying "Oh people aren't coming because they don't care".  No, people can't come because its too GD expensive.  I get it, billion dollar franchise playing multimillioare players, money has to come from somewhere, but good lord.  I want to go to the Raiders game and that's an investment to deal with the ticket and parking pass. A lot of diehard fans that just can't roll like that.

 

How much is your average ticket to FedEx these days? I'm on the West Coast and have never had the privilege of attending a skins home game. I'll be heading out to the Rams/Chargers games when the Skins come to L.A. this season.

[thebluefood]

Mentioned this in a previous post but here's the website I cited: 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193595/average-ticket-price-in-the-nfl-by-team/

 

Average price for an NFL ticket: $92.98 (which is already pretty damn pricey)

Average price for a Redskins ticket: $119.52 (4th most expensive ticket in the league)

 

[goskins10]

Sorry, it's not the cost. If there was a good reason to go people would find the money. Part of the problem is the crap product put on the field for so long. But the biggest issue is the way Dan Snyder has treated the fans, ex-players and the community in general. Getting into the playoffs will help. Winning a SB will help. But until Snyder makes an effort to better connect to the community and especially ex-players it will be short lived. The only way for anything to be long term is if he sells the team - which he seems to have no interest in doing.

[Darth Tater]

2 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Being consistently mediocre doesn't help.  Hell, the 49ers stadium is brand frickin' new and it took them exactly one losing season before the stadium was half empty for home games.

 

I'd love for us to be consistently mediocre.  A consistently mediocre team wins between 7 and 9 games every year and every once in a while gets lucky and has an 10 or 11 win season or gets some bad luck and may have a single season with 5 or 6 wins over about a 3-4 year period.  The last consistent stretch of mediocrity for us was 1999 thru 2002 (arguable 2001 since 2003 was the first of two suck years).  I guess you could also argue that we were somewhat mediocre during the Gibbs 2.0 period as 2005 through 2008 were mediocre years interspersed with one 10 loss season that could be explained by bad luck. From 2009 to 2014, we only had one season were we did not lose at least 10 games!  That is SUCK not mediocrity.

[PartyPosse]

I don't think it's a question of the quality on the field, it's just becoming too expensive to be a fan nowadays. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I've heard for years on here that fans hate watching games at FedEx Field for a variety of reasons. If those reasons haven't been fixed over those past 10 years then declining attendance is hardly surprising.

 

Having 5 of the those 10 years be seasons with win totals of 4, 6, 5, 3 and 4 can't help, either lol....

[Zazzaro703]

59 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

How hard is it to understand.

Its the fan experience plain and simple.

I gotta say I agree. The fan experience plus the NFL product as a whole. What's a penalty, what's not a penalty, sure looked like a catch to me but somehow it's an incomplete pass? Throw in the ridiculous cap penalty and major advances in watching games at home, fantasy football and many fans just like the home experience better. I cannot even tell you how many players I've scored of the fantasy waiver wire because of an injury and scooping up their backup before the injured player is even off the field. Can't do that sitting at Fedex or do it as efficiently. The teams ineptitude probably plays into not gaining new fans, but I seriously doubt long term fans of the team have left. They just aren't going to an overpriced lousy experience bookended by miserable traffic that many people just enjoy better at home for many reasons in 2017. 

[Llevron]

I feel like Redskins fans have just been doing what's best for their mental and physical health by breaking up with their abuser. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

53 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Sorry, it's not the cost. If there was a good reason to go people would find the money. Part of the problem is the crap product put on the field for so long. But the biggest issue is the way Dan Snyder has treated the fans, ex-players and the community in general. Getting into the playoffs will help. Winning a SB will help. But until Snyder makes an effort to better connect to the community and especially ex-players it will be short lived. The only way for anything to be long term is if he sells the team - which he seems to have no interest in doing.

 

A lot of the ex-players can be seen at Fed Ex on game day.  I know Portis has his radio gig but even before then him and Santana were on the sidelines.  Doug Williams has a front office gig.  I always see Dexter Manley.  Usually there's a few former Skins at the games in some capacity or another.

 

But that doesn't take away from the rest of your post which is spot on.

 

Snyder did inherit a terrible stadium in Fed Ex, that's not his fault.  IMO, Fed Ex is the last of the old-breed type of stadiums which are just essentially concrete bowls with no personality.  It was literally built to be the biggest stadium with the most seats in the NFL, that's it.  It has no character, no charm.  Years later you get the Camden Yards effect with football stadiums and the Skins missed out.

 

That said, he hasn't done anything to make the game-day experience worthwhile.  Combine with losing, bad PR moves....there's not many redeeming qualities to the franchise right now.  Two or three winning seasons and playoff appearances in a row would do a lot to change things.  

 

I remember going to that Cowboys game where we whipped the **** out of the Parcells lead Cowboys, it was the game where we won like 35-10.  The place was on fire.  

[PortisBetts]

4 hours ago, The Mayor of Fed Ex Field said:

Maybe the 10.6% attendance change has to to with us removing 10.6% of the seats in that ten year span.

 

Maybe the 10.6% of seats being removed had to do with being unable to sell those seats and to continue to say they were selling out the stadium

 

Good. Hit him in the pockets where it hurts. Build a front office and put a good team on the field and people will come. Until then, I see no reason to spend the absurd amount of money it costs to go to a game when I can watch it for a 10th of the price at home. 

[goskins10]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

A lot of the ex-players can be seen at Fed Ex on game day.  I know Portis has his radio gig but even before then him and Santana were on the sidelines.  Doug Williams has a front office gig.  I always see Dexter Manley.  Usually there's a few former Skins at the games in some capacity or another.

 

But that doesn't take away from the rest of your post which is spot on.

 

Snyder did inherit a terrible stadium in Fed Ex, that's not his fault.  IMO, Fed Ex is the last of the old-breed type of stadiums which are just essentially concrete bowls with no personality.  It was literally built to be the biggest stadium with the most seats in the NFL, that's it.  It has no character, no charm.  Years later you get the Camden Yards effect with football stadiums and the Skins missed out.

 

That said, he hasn't done anything to make the game-day experience worthwhile.  Combine with losing, bad PR moves....there's not many redeeming qualities to the franchise right now.  Two or three winning seasons and playoff appearances in a row would do a lot to change things.  

 

I remember going to that Cowboys game where we whipped the **** out of the Parcells lead Cowboys, it was the game where we won like 35-10.  The place was on fire.  

 

Yes, you see some ex-players around the team. However, you don't see the true leaders. Where is Darrell Green? Where is Charles Mann? Art Monk? John Riggins is no fan at all. There are others too. The complaint is that they often treated as a commodity when they come to games or spend time around the stadium.

 

I do agree that the fan experience has an impact. I should have added that. Stadium is not great. But it's not that bad I think it's more to what you stated that Dan has done nothing t improve the game day experience. In fact he has made it worse.

 

But I will also say that the worst stadium in the world would still bring people in if there is a good product n the field and the ownership is not outright antagonistic to the fans and community as a whole. I offer Wrigley Field as an example. Have you ever been there? It has to be the worst outside stadium I have ever been in. But it's still awesome to go to a game there.

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Yes, you see some ex-players around the team. However, you don't see the true leaders. Where is Darrell Green? Where is Charles Mann? Art Monk? John Riggins is no fan at all. There are others too. The complaint is that they often treated as a commodity when they come to games or spend time around the stadium.

 

I do agree that the fan experience has an impact. I should have added that. Stadium is not great. But it's not that bad I think it's more to what you stated that Dan has done nothing t improve the game day experience. In fact he has made it worse.

 

But I will also say that the worst stadium in the world would still bring people in if there is a good product n the field and the ownership is not outright antagonistic to the fans and community as a whole. I offer Wrigley Field as an example. Have you ever been there? It has to be the worst outside stadium I have ever been in. But it's still awesome to go to a game there.

 

Yeah, for sure.  Winning cures everything else.  No mystery there.  

[goskins10]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah, for sure.  Winning cures everything else.  No mystery there.  

 

 

Actually not just winning although that certainly helps. The Cubs were one of the worst teams in baseball for decades and yet that stadium was full every game. They have only been good the last what 8 to 10 years. But the owners did not antagonize the fans - although they routinely made poor player decisions.

[thebluefood]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

Sorry, it's not the cost. If there was a good reason to go people would find the money. Part of the problem is the crap product put on the field for so long. But the biggest issue is the way Dan Snyder has treated the fans, ex-players and the community in general. Getting into the playoffs will help. Winning a SB will help. But until Snyder makes an effort to better connect to the community and especially ex-players it will be short lived. The only way for anything to be long term is if he sells the team - which he seems to have no interest in doing.

I don't think cost is the only reason but if the average price of $119.52 is to be believed and there's an 8 game season, that's $956.11 with just tickets. Now sure, you could get substandard seats but watching football in person can be a miserable experience unless you're in a particular part of the stadium (or you brought a pair of binoculars). That area is probably going to demand a much higher price than the average. 

 

Then you have to factor in transportation - which is at least the Metro fare (which, once again, is going to require a mile-long walk to your seats at best) but for most fans, I imagine, it'll include parking fees. If you don't want to spring for concessions, that's fine (eating before the game would be a smart idea) but the average length of a football game (including all the breaks) is about the same as a baseball game. You're gonna get hungry eventually and you know they're gonna jack up the prices. 

 

Yes, the product on the field is the main factor but that game day experience is gonna make you budget very carefully unless you're making a good salary. From everything I've heard about the crowds at the team's two previous stadiums, it wasn't always that way. If you price everyone but the wine and cheese crowd out, you're not only going to have fewer people in the stands but a much less spirited and raucous atmosphere.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

Actually not just winning although that certainly helps. The Cubs were one of the worst teams in baseball for decades and yet that stadium was full every game. They have only been good the last what 8 to 10 years. But the owners did not antagonize the fans - although they routinely made poor player decisions.

 

Yeah, but Wrigley is a place that every baseball fan wants to go see, that's the thing.  It's baseball history.  2nd oldest stadium in the game.  I don't care about the Cubs at all but if I'm in Chicago I am totally going to Wrigley before anything else.  

 

Hey, it could be a dump inside.  Fenway was a bit of a letdown when I went there back in the late 90s but I can say I've been to a game there.  Took the tour.  Saw the Monster.  

 

Lotta people out there that want to be able to say they went to a Cubs game and saw the ivy out there.  Waveland avenue.  Sang the song at the 7th inning stretch, etc.  

[goskins10]

Just now, thebluefood said:

I don't think cost is the only reason but if the average price of $119.52 is to be believed and there's an 8 game season, that's $956.11 with just tickets. Now sure, you could get substandard seats but watching football in person can be a miserable experience unless you're in a particular part of the stadium (or you brought a pair of binoculars). That area is probably going to demand a much higher price than the average. 

 

Then you have to factor in transportation - which is at least the Metro fare (which, once again, is going to require a mile-long walk to your seats at best) but for most fans, I imagine, it'll include parking fees. If you don't want to spring for concessions, that's fine (eating before the game would be a smart idea) but the average length of a football game (including all the breaks) is about the same as a baseball game. You're gonna get hungry eventually and you know they're gonna jack up the prices. 

 

Yes, the product on the field is the main factor but that game day experience is gonna make you budget very carefully unless you're making a good salary. From everything I've heard about the crowds at the team's two previous stadiums, it wasn't always that way. If you price everyone but the wine and cheese crowd out, you're not only going to have fewer people in the stands but a much less spirited and raucous atmosphere.

 

I just disagree. I get it can be a little pricey. But people that can afford or want to afford season tickets do not care that much if the tickets are $740 or $960. Maybe a few make that decision but most have already decided pay the price. Many of the people you are talking about are going to one or a few games a year. To that end you can get Stub hub tickets pretty cheap for most games. 

 

There is a lot of money in the DC area. I am 100% certain that if the product on the field was more consistent and Dan Snyder was not such a complete douche, $30/ticket and higher food prices would not make any difference. They might grumble some but the seats would be filled.

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah, but Wrigley is a place that every baseball fan wants to go see, that's the thing.  It's baseball history.  2nd oldest stadium in the game.  I don't care about the Cubs at all but if I'm in Chicago I am totally going to Wrigley before anything else.  

 

Hey, it could be a dump inside.  Fenway was a bit of a letdown when I went there back in the late 90s but I can say I've been to a game there.  Took the tour.  Saw the Monster.  

 

Lotta people out there that want to be able to say they went to a Cubs game and saw the ivy out there.  Waveland avenue.  Sang the song at the 7th inning stretch, etc.  

 

That's actually my point. That kind of feeling was there for the Redskins before Snyder bought the team - regardless of stadium and ticket prices. You wanted to be there on Sunday's. It was important. It was the one thing that brought all those transient people together. But since DS has bought the team, not only has not done anything to improve the stadium, he has been antagonistic to most everyone.

 

I am not saying it couldn't help to improve the stadium. It is pretty much a dump. But I believe we got here more because of DS mishandling the team and the fans than the stadium.

[MarkB452]

4 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of that right off the bat.

 

FedEx seating capacity as listed in Wikipedia:

 

82,000^[3] (2015–present)^[4]
79,000 (2012–2015)^[5]
83,000 (2011)^[5]
91,704 (2009–2010)^[6]
91,665 (2004–2008)^[6]
86,484 (2001–2003)^[6]
85,407 (2000)^[6]
80,116 (1997–1999)^[6]

 

82000 / 91665 =  89.456% - so yeah - 10.6% seems to be expected (....except if it weren't for the "mythical" 200K waiting list)

[thebluefood]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I just disagree. I get it can be a little pricey. But people that can afford or want to afford season tickets do not care that much if the tickets are $740 or $960. Maybe a few make that decision but most have already decided pay the price. Many of the people you are talking about are going to one or a few games a year. To that end you can get Stub hub tickets pretty cheap for most games. 

 

There is a lot of money in the DC area. I am 100% certain that if the product on the field was more consistent and Dan Snyder was not such a complete douche, $30/ticket and higher food prices would not make any difference. They might grumble some but the seats would be filled.

But if the prices of Redskins tickets continue to go up then who will fall in that "can afford" category in, say, 10-15 years - especially if wages continue to stay stagnant for large swaths of the working public? By that time, the Redskins may have a new stadium and, just maybe, might actually field a winning team. I doubt those are going to bring prices down. 

 

I love this team dearly and I want to see them at least once this season but that's going to require some good breaks and hard decisions. Even though I live in a poorer part of the country (albeit near Washington) I have to imagine this is still a tough purchase for whatever may be left of working class people in and around D.C. And if those folks continue to be priced out of the D.C. area, who's going to be left to go to these games? Who's going to be left, especially who not only cares about the team, no matter how they play, but can afford to go and support them in person? 

 

I'm sorry if we're straying too much into discussion more suited for the Tailgate but this all seems intertwined from where I'm standing. 

[wit33]

Wonder how long it will takethe NFL to adopt the NBA model and market players. It's coming. 

[Diehard Otis]

4 hours ago, Burgold said:

I remember going to a David and Busters in Rockville, Md. this was Redskins territory in my youth. When I went into the arcade almost all their sports prizes were Raven's stuff. 

 

Bobbles, mini helmets, signed footballs. 

 

I couldn't did any 'skins merchandise. It was weird and depressing. 

 

That was about bout five years ago, I think. 

WHAT!!??  Rockville is my hometown - and YES this is the epicenter of Redskins territory.  Well...once upon a time.  But I obstinately refuse to believe that this is true.

 

But alas, times have changed.  

 

Locally, the Post culls game recap articles during the season about the Purple team.  And all of their Sunday ballgames are aired locally on WUSA, the CBS affiliate.

 

But Ravens merchandise at the expense of The Redskins is unforgivable!
[and I know the Dave & Buster's you speak of - White Flint Plaza, right on Rockville Pike.  Been there myself, although that's not really my scene]

--------------------------------------------

Speaking of Bmore, when I moved back to the area ('09), the Orioles were a bottom feeder team.  And Camden Yards was practically empty.  I got great seats on the cheap, no problem.  Fast forward a couple'a years, Buck came to town as manager & the team improved.  Then >poof!< whaddiya know?  The stands stayed packed.

 

Winning has a lot to do with attendance, especially nowadays.

[Chants]

The name is perceived to be racist.  I know, it isn't racist, but the perception is there.  It's hard to get new fans with that perception. 

 

The name doesn't bother me one bit.  But I can say that I have lost some interest not in the team in particular, but in the sport in general.  It's all the head injuries.  It's hard to watch now.

[Burgold]

I felt the same way @Diehard Otis. I even complained. At least it wasn't larded with Cowboys or Partriot's junk.

[Diehard Otis]

8 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I felt the same way @Diehard Otis. I even complained. At least it wasn't larded with Cowboys or Partriot's junk.

Maaaan, that's hearbreaking.  Rockville Pike turns into Wisconsin Avenue in Northwest DC!  That's as close to "inside the Beltway" as you can get, without actually being inside it.  What a travesty.