The Post Franchise Tag 4pm Deadline Deal Or No Deal Fallout Thread

[Tsailand]

4 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

MOST players that want to stay with a team would counter that offer.

He doesn't need to counter the offer to stay.  All he has to do is keep playing and keep getting tagged. 

 

He said himself that he'd be happy to play on ten one-year deals.

 

 

edit: click here to see it fullsize: http://www.thedrawplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/2017-07-27-KurtCousins.png

[Rufus T Firefly]

9 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Again. I dont know how it's spin when it's the truth.

Because it's not really true, and assumes the 24 mil Cousins already signed for is part of an "offer". If you're selling me something, would you let me count money I've already given you towards the price?

 

More importantly, the "highest guarantee" spin is completely irrelevant. It was a pittance compared to what he can get without signing that contract. They offered Cousins essentially nothing to walk away from tens of millions of dollars, and then spun it with meaningless soundbites. And some fans like you swallowed it whole.

 

The problem isn't that you repeat that line as "truth". The problem isn't even that you repeat it as if it means something, when it doesn't. The problem is you repeat it as if it means everything. As if being able to use that line about "highest guarantee" means it was a great offer and Cousins was greedy, or vindictive, or who knows what else, by turning down the greatest offer ever. When, again, the offer was in reality to take basically nothing vs tens of millions of dollars. 

[SkinsFTW]

21 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 If you're selling me something, would you let me count money I've already given you towards the price?

 

 

That's what apparently fails to penetrate skulls. He was already guaranteed 1y 24M.

 

They are offering him an additional 5 year contract with 29M guaranteed.

 

Derek Carr just signed a similar deal with 75M guaranteed.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/derek-carr-14445/

 

It's really not that complicated.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

It's also pretty well documented that Cousins would have played ball early on in the offseason but was turned off when the weak offer came through in May.  Bruce didn't swallow his pride until the weekend before the deadline and at that point Kirk was like "meh".  

 

So many people here have broken this down in the simplest of terms and some of these folks still don't get it or simply will not admit defeat and accept their L.

 

 

 

[wit33]

36 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's also pretty well documented that Cousins would have played ball early on in the offseason but was turned off when the weak offer came through in May.  Bruce didn't swallow his pride until the weekend before the deadline and at that point Kirk was like "meh".  

 

So many people here have broken this down in the simplest of terms and some of these folks still don't get it or simply will not admit defeat and accept their L.

 

 

 

 

There's nothing factual about what you've posted. 

 

Offer was presented in May, following the draft. 

[mistertim]

I do find it odd that Kirk and his agent didn't even bother to make a counter offer. The offer from the Skins was I'm sure lower than what Kirk wanted but it wasn't a "joke". That's the whole point of negotiations. One side starts low, the other goes high, and they usually end up meeting in the middle. If Kirk really wanted to be here long term worst case is his side makes a much higher counteroffer and the sides can't meet in the middle and he still ends up playing on the franchise tag again anyway. Why not even try? Just seems weird to me if he truly does want to be here long term like he says.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

39 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

There's nothing factual about what you've posted. 

 

Offer was presented in May, following the draft. 

So you can't read.  Explains a lot.

 

I clearly said a weak offer was presented in May. 

[wit33]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

So you can't read.  Explains a lot.

 

I clearly said a weak offer was presented in May. 

 

Would the FO say the offer was weak? 

 

Its your opinion, sir. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Would the FO say the offer was weak? 

 

Its your opinion, sir. 

No, the FO told me it was freaking awesome.  Common sense and logic told me it was weak.

[wit33]

49 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No, the FO told me it was freaking awesome.  Common sense and logic told me it was weak.

 

Its business, you appear to be too charged up about blaming one side. 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

That's what apparently fails to penetrate skulls. He was already guaranteed 1y 24M.

 

They are offering him an additional 5 year contract with 29M guaranteed.

 

Derek Carr just signed a similar deal with 75M guaranteed.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/derek-carr-14445/

 

It's really not that complicated.

 

That 75 Million guaranteed is an injury guarantee. Cousins was offered a 72 million injury guarantee for his FIRST OFFER and turned it down. Carr got 40 Mill guaranteed at signing. Cousins was offered 52 million guaranteed at signing and turned it down. Lets not forget. Not only did he turn it down but he didnt even counter. 

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

Would the FO say the offer was weak? 

 

Its your opinion, sir. 

No. Because it wasnt weak. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Its business, you appear to be too charged up about blaming one side. 

 

 

 

Bad business.  I have no emotion in this, as there is nothing this team can do at this point to surprise me other than win consistently.  I'm simply using logic.  

 

Some of you don't believe Kirk is worth the money, he's middle of the pack, choker, etc. and really that's fine.  But the backing of the FO for how they've handled the whole deal is laughable.  They've literally done nothing right to where at best we end up literally paying Kirk more guaranteed money than any QB ever and at worst he walks and we get nothing in return.  Any way you chop this up it's a bad look for the FO and to disagree is woefully ignorant.

 

 

[clskinsfan]

4 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

They offered Cousins essentially nothing to walk away from tens of millions of dollars, and then spun it with meaningless soundbites.

 

You all keep saying this or something similar to it. Even with his franchise tag, if Cousins has a career ending injury this year he looses 48 million dollars. To claim they offered him NOTHING is ridiculous.

[SkinsFTW]

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Even with his franchise tag, if Cousins has a career ending injury this year he looses 48 million dollars. To claim they offered him NOTHING is ridiculous.

 

And when he doesn't the team will end up paying him 80M over 3 years and will then have to offer him a 5y 125M+ contract with at least 85 of it guaranteed on top of that.

 

Who is gambling more here?

 

The team is gambling that Cousins will either have a career ender or suck. Any other outcome makes Bruce Allen look like a buffoon.

[wit33]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Bad business.  I have no emotion in this, as there is nothing this team can do at this point to surprise me other than win consistently.  I'm simply using logic.  

 

Some of you don't believe Kirk is worth the money, he's middle of the pack, choker, etc. and really that's fine.  But the backing of the FO for how they've handled the whole deal is laughable.  They've literally done nothing right to where at best we end up literally paying Kirk more guaranteed money than any QB ever and at worst he walks and we get nothing in return.  Any way you chop this up it's a bad look for the FO and to disagree is woefully ignorant.

 

 

 

It appears you're okay with Kirk and agent being business oriented and maximizing the situation. I don't fault the FO for not just giving in to whatever.

 

(I will admit, that's just how I'm wired. Other than me thinking QBs are way over priced and valued, when most provide uneven results (Aside from legends). 

 

I guess for me, I feel the beginning to the end is coming with the NFL and it holding onto the it being about team. Good luck to the Giants and ODB lol... Steelers and Leveon and the Skins with Kirk.... it's just beginning 

 

Your line of thinking will most likely be right and the NFL will begin to be much like the NBA (Players  running the league). 

[TSO]

For me, it's not even the numbers (which don't look good at all) when it comes to comparing the Carr contract to Cousins'. Or even if you buy the team's propaganda regarding their offer. 

 

It's that Carr, and virtually every other franchise QB throughout history with respect to their teams, has every reason to believe the Raiders will honor that contract and that he'll likely make, not only the obvious amount in what's fully guaranteed, but also a significant portion of what isn't. 

 

Do you think for one second the Raiders will dump Carr, even after much of the guaranteed amount has been paid and even after he had a poor season? 

 

Cousins, on the other hand, would be an idiot to believe anything other than the Skins would dump him at the first chance they'll get, blame him for the woes of one bad season or even a bad stretch of games, and cast him as the villain in the most humilating, legacy-tarnishing way just like they've done with next to every single major sports figure that's arrived here, McCloughan being the latest in a long line of them. 

 

It's simply what they do. It's who they are. For a couple years here it seemed like they finally changed their stripes, and there was an environment of functional titles, roles, and the accompanying stability and accountability that comes with that. But, then, poof! Once again that's, at the very least, thrown into question. 

 

Anyone claiming it's not in question simply doesn't understand basic organizational principles. They don't understand how the vast majority of successful franchises in the NFL operate. How said success is NOT by accident or through luck or through some randomly fortunate run of good years. They simply don't get that. 

 

But listening to Kirk's interview myself just a couple days ago, I'm convinced he does. 

 

So I can't help but feel like the entire "guaranteed amount meaning everything" idea is only a factor that has come about as a consequence of the dysfunction and instability of this FO. And why hearing a player talk about wanting to see the organization's direction and how the changes affect things before he commits, something I'm not sure I've EVER heard come out of a player's mouth, makes perfect sense. 

 

Something that shows brilliant foresight on his end which is only further evidenced in that trash press release Allen thought was a good idea. 

 

I don't trust this FO, and I've been one of the most optimistic people around here for years. How dare I begrudge another player for feeling the same way? In fact, I can't do anything but be impressed by him if I'm true to myself regarding my own - totally legitimate, based on ample amounts of research and not emotionally contrived - feelings towards the FO. 

 

If I'm in his position, I'm not sure I handle this as well as he has. I wouldn't care about their "improved" tone, about their talk, and even if they came with a decent "first offer" after God knows how long (that isn't really an "initial offer" since the sides undoubtedly were talking plenty previous to it, just more bs propaganda) after all the crap I've seen for years.

 

Loyalty and trust within this organization is nearly non-existent. It is incredibly easy for them to dump someone today whom they promised the world to just yesterday. 

 

Let those backbiting, quick to betray, politicking, selfishly motivated, undervaluers of assets, underminers of titles/roles, obstacle-creating, emotionally unstable, fools at the top prove themselves for once. Force them into showing loyalty. 

 

Maybe they do. Maybe the firing of the GM - and the subsequent crap hiring process that lead to a restructuring of the FO in a way that has never been good for the franchise in the past - will just be a blip on the radar. Maybe Jay Gruden really is THAT good and he can hold this **** together somehow, as unfair as that is to him. Maybe guys like Schaffer and Doug will be able to really fulfill their roles without being undermined or unwarrantedly interfered with AND do an awesome job, even though one of them doesn't have nearly the resumé that would make one excited about such prospects.

 

Maybe. 

 

But I'm simply astounded by just how much my thinking, along with quite a few on this board who've been saying the same things all offseason, align with Kirk's regarding this FO. I don't think that's ever happened before to the degree I feel it has now. That might sound like I'm bragging, but I'm not. That's why I'm astounded by it.  It really has made me more impressed with him than I've ever been by a player. He gets it.

 

This franchise would only be so lucky to have a guy like him. Maybe that's why they're so hesitant about everything? They know he's better than them. He makes them look stupid. 

 

I'm fully aware of the labels I just got labeled with right now. Don't care, eat ****  , it's the truth and I'm not sorry. I don't worship any creation, not a player nor owner nor exec. But right is right. There's no doubt in my mind right now which side that lies on. 

[Skinsinparadise]

New one from JLC. One of my things here is wondering about FO competence at least on this front.  

 

A.  Some say look yeah it may look weird to give Kirk about 80 million in guarantees to rent him for 3 years versus refusing to give him the same amount to keep him for 5 years (while also helping the cap so they can keep an extra player or two versus these high rentals) -- but look these guys know what they are doing, just trust them and if you don't you are a hater. 

 

B.  Yeah insiders say Kirk is at the 24-25 million a year level as for what's thought of as his market.  And yes most agree the tag does anchor the price.  The FO says no on both counts.  The tag doesn't effect the price.  And they can offer him less than the tag and Kirk should take that over likely getting much more than that on the open market.  Just trust the FO and if you don't you are a hater.

 

C. Other teams don't dance with the idea of letting their franchise QB dance with FA or at least dance almost to the brink of it.  But this FO says why not?  He won't take this amount that we are offering but maybe he will when he is on the brink of FA?  Yeah NFL insiders, ex-agents say the market price for Kirk will only get higher but they are wrong or we'd rather pay even more in 2018 than we can get him now.

 

For me A & B & C is a wild enough ride in itself.  But then the press release, which JLC hits on again.  It just makes me wonder about the instincts of the some of the people making these calls.  I've praised the FO on plenty of stuff.  I am higher on the FA signings than most among other things.  But on Kirk, wow, what a wild Adams family level strange ride with the FO making one strange move after another IMO.  

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kirk-cousins-at-peace-with-contract-saga-as-training-camp-begins-for-redskins/

If Cousins merely continues to be Cousins, and stays on this career trajectory, he will have even more leverage come January, the next time Washington can re-enter negotiations with him per the collective bargaining agreement. In fact, I wouldn't be shocked at all if Washington ends up franchising him a third time, even at the astonishing rate of $34.5 million. While many have opined that there is no way that Cousins would sign a long-term deal with Washington prior to February's franchise tagging period, there is still a sliver of hope, though Allen's statement certainly further complicated relations and was obviously viewed as bush league and unnecessary by those close to the quarterback.

 

What Snyder and Allen and this locker room have going for them is their quarterback's unwavering professionalism. He's wedded to taking the high road, and he will always present a team-first face in public. He will never engage in a war of words even if goaded and provoked (and Allen's statement certainly would have drawn a rise out of some players and some agents). Whether it's his faith, how he was raised or the fact he's never been anybody's favorite (Cousins was mildly regarded in high school and entering college, had to fight to start at Michigan State and played second fiddle to Robert Griffin III his first few years in the league), or a combination of all of the above, Cousins refuses to be a distraction.

 

So while the Cousins saga made for delicious fodder in the dog days of summer -- with the rest of the NFL relatively dormant -- it's kind of business as usual in Washington. If the team rises or falls in 2017, it won't be because of the quarterback's contract status, and drama is a constant at Redskins Park, anyway. Cousins is uniquely equipped to compartmentalize for now, focusing on forging relationships with an overhauled receiving corps, all the while knowing come January his contract will be first and foremost for both his agent Mike McCartney and the team.

 

...Unquestionably, this mess is on Washington's hands, having numerous opportunities to sign Cousins before and during his rise to prominence, as he stabilized the franchise during the tumultuous and ugly end to the short-lived RG3 era. He saw firsthand how Snyder coddled and incubated and showered Griffin with affection. The owner put the passer above pretty much anything else -- even the coach -- and enjoyed a degree of buttressing Cousins himself has never been privy to.

 

All that Cousins has done in his two full seasons as an NFL starter (2015-16) is post stats that rival those of Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers. Cousins ranks fourth in completions (785), third in completion percentage (68.3), fourth in yards (9,083), fourth in yards per attempt (7.91) and 12th in touchdown passes (54). Hence the somewhat ho-hum attitude of Washington brass when it comes to any concerns about Cousins performing under contract pressure.

[Rufus T Firefly]

11 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

You all keep saying this or something similar to it. Even with his franchise tag, if Cousins has a career ending injury this year he looses 48 million dollars. To claim they offered him NOTHING is ridiculous.

Hence the word "essentially". Because in the extraordinarily, laughably unlikely occurrence that Cousins should suffer an injury in year one that renders him completely unable to ever play football again, he would have lost out on 48 mil, minus the insurance he's taken out, so he'd lose out on probably not much, really.

 

So it's only essentially, and not quite literally, nothing.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

New one from JLC. One of my things here is wondering about FO competence at least on this front.  

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kirk-cousins-at-peace-with-contract-saga-as-training-camp-begins-for-redskins/

 

Clearly, he's just bias against the Skins.  Bruce offered him THE MOST GUARANTEED MONEY EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!!

 

Just figured I'd beat the gang to it...

[theTruthTeller]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Hence the word "essentially". Because in the extraordinarily, laughably unlikely occurrence that Cousins should suffer an injury in year one that renders him completely unable to ever play football again, he would have lost out on 48 mil, minus the insurance he's taken out, so he'd lose out on probably not much, really.

 

So it's only essentially, and not quite literally, nothing.

Also, scaring a player into signing a contract to protect his future income from injury is a lot more effective on players signing their first non-rookie contract than it is on players who have just made $44M guaranteed money over two years, along with additional endorsement money.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Clearly, he's just bias against the Skins.  Bruce offered him THE MOST GUARANTEED MONEY EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!!

 

Just figured I'd beat the gang to it...

 

LOL, yeah the thing is I quoted Laconfora plenty BEFORE July 17th as to why we should have confidence that a deal gets done.  JLC's position mirrored my own, he had the FO's back on the contract in the assumption that it made all the logic in the world to get it done. So they will get it done.  But when the contract didn't happen, he's mega mystified about it.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Brewer takes a new swing at it

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-redskins-dont-deserve-a-quarterback-as-balanced-and-calm-as-kirk-cousins/2017/07/27/5d57b5dc-72ee-11e7-9eac-d56bd5568db8_story.html?utm_term=.6b3889c9f70e&wpisrc=nl_sports&wpmm=1

 

...Washington has created a mess, and Cousins is so good at making you ignore the mess. But that doesn’t make the situation any cleaner.

 

“I think it was a good season last year,” Cousins said when asked about how he handles playing on a one-year contract. “I don’t think it played any factor into how I played or how we played. The fact of the matter is so many of my teammates, critical teammates to the success of this team, are also on one-year deals. So we’re kind of all in that boat together, so I think that helps. Hopefully, we can all have great years and give the Redskins a lot of options come the offseason.”

 

Washington doesn’t deserve Cousins’s balanced outlook. It deserves a player who constantly gives it headaches, negotiates in public and tries to sway fan emotion. But Cousins is a terrific teammate because he’s suppressing drama and giving his squad a chance to win this season. He did the same a year ago.

[purbeast]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Brewer takes a new swing at it

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-redskins-dont-deserve-a-quarterback-as-balanced-and-calm-as-kirk-cousins/2017/07/27/5d57b5dc-72ee-11e7-9eac-d56bd5568db8_story.html?utm_term=.6b3889c9f70e&wpisrc=nl_sports&wpmm=1

 

...Washington has created a mess, and Cousins is so good at making you ignore the mess. But that doesn’t make the situation any cleaner.

 

“I think it was a good season last year,” Cousins said when asked about how he handles playing on a one-year contract. “I don’t think it played any factor into how I played or how we played. The fact of the matter is so many of my teammates, critical teammates to the success of this team, are also on one-year deals. So we’re kind of all in that boat together, so I think that helps. Hopefully, we can all have great years and give the Redskins a lot of options come the offseason.”

 

Washington doesn’t deserve Cousins’s balanced outlook. It deserves a player who constantly gives it headaches, negotiates in public and tries to sway fan emotion. But Cousins is a terrific teammate because he’s suppressing drama and giving his squad a chance to win this season. He did the same a year ago.

The comments in that article are painful to read.  It just shows you how uninformed the general public is about everything Redskins.  I'm sure the majority of fans (probably a large majority) ate up Bruce's press release.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

33 minutes ago, purbeast said:

The comments in that article are painful to read.  It just shows you how uninformed the general public is about everything Redskins.  I'm sure the majority of fans (probably a large majority) ate up Bruce's press release.

My hope is that it's like this with every team and that we're not the benchmark for fan stupidity.  I used to be a member of a few Redskins fan groups on Facebook and the overwhelming majority of folks were no-nothing homers that were only capable of thinking with their misled hearts.  Some of them were also racist, but that's another story.

 

I see a few folks still touting the narrative that we all have 20/20 hindsight in regards to signing Cousins in seasons past.  Well, that's completely fine - because we're fans that are not employed to make big decisions for a national football league front office.  I expect more out of the folks making the big bucks in Ashburn.  I expect them to have the foresight into where contracts were going and what could potentially happen if they don't play their cards right.  They are supposed to be smarter than us. 

[mistertim]

Has Kirk and/or his agent confirmed at all why they never bothered to make a counter offer or are they just staying mum on the subject? I'm guessing the latter but I'd really love to know the reason.