NoCalMike Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 If Cousins has a bad season the offer amount goes down, if he has a great season he likely gets everything his agent is asking for, that much is almost a given, however what if he largely has the same season as 2015/16? A lot of people think (despite the changeover at WR) he is due to take a substantial jump for his third straight year as the starter, but what if he doesn't? It won't make him a mediocre QB, but it does mean he isn't or at least is not yet elite. If Cousins play doesn't change much in either direction, then I don't really expect any kind of different outcome next offseason in regards to a LTD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I think of cousins takes a step down and the team struggles we are looking at a new starter in 2018. Now if Kirk takes a step up and we win 10+ and is in mvp talks I would guarantee there is no way in hell dan Snyder let's him walk. He will become highest paid player ever either through LtD or 3rd franchise tag. What im most concerned about is another 25 td 4000+ yard 8-8 type season with red zone struggles and occasional doofy plays. Then we will be back to talking in circles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: If Cousins has a bad season the offer amount goes down, if he has a great season he likely gets everything his agent is asking for, that much is almost a given, however what if he largely has the same season as 2015/16? A lot of people think (despite the changeover at WR) he is due to take a substantial jump for his third straight year as the starter, but what if he doesn't? It won't make him a mediocre QB, but it does mean he isn't or at least is not yet elite. If Cousins play doesn't change much in either direction, then I don't really expect any kind of different outcome next offseason in regards to a LTD. If Cousin's game doesn't change at all, then we should be at 10 to 12 wins this season. I expect our defense and run game to improve. That alone is worth like 2-4 wins. And if KC plays the same, then that means 8 wins. So 8 + 2 or 4 is 10 or 12. I'd be very happy with that and that would get KC a huge contract the following year, and probably with another team because the Redskins FO is as bad as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake88 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, purbeast said: If Cousin's game doesn't change at all, then we should be at 10 to 12 wins this season. I expect our defense and run game to improve. That alone is worth like 2-4 wins. And if KC plays the same, then that means 8 wins. So 8 + 2 or 4 is 10 or 12. I'd be very happy with that and that would get KC a huge contract the following year, and probably with another team because the Redskins FO is as bad as it gets. If we win 10-12 games you are fooling yourself to think Dan won't throw money at Kirk. Even if it's to hold him hostage at 31 million for one more season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, purbeast said: If Cousin's game doesn't change at all, then we should be at 10 to 12 wins this season. I expect our defense and run game to improve. That alone is worth like 2-4 wins. And if KC plays the same, then that means 8 wins. So 8 + 2 or 4 is 10 or 12. I'd be very happy with that and that would get KC a huge contract the following year, and probably with another team because the Redskins FO is as bad as it gets. We'll see. It's really hard to make those kinds of statements season to season unless you have an established QB like a Brady or Rodgers. Right now with Cousins we know about what to expect based on what he's done so far, but there's still that question mark of whether he will get even better or fall back some given any number of circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Rattlesnake88 said: If we win 10-12 games you are fooling yourself to think Dan won't throw money at Kirk. Even if it's to hold him hostage at 31 million for one more season. Well they've already proved me a fool 2 years in a row, although this year they REALLY proved me a fool. So I don't doubt they would prove me a fool a 3rd year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 If Kirk plays at top 5-7 QB level, I think we apply the franchise tag and try to do a LTD before the draft. If we can't get a LTD before the draft I think we should make an effort to make a play for one of the top quarterbacks in the draft. If Kirk plays same level or slightly regress, we apply the transition tag. The only way I'd let him walk is if another team signs him to a deal with excessively high AAV, that would make it difficult to build around him going forward. He would end up in a tough situation in that scenario. If he signs the tag and looks to play on another 1 year deal, I think we should draft a top quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 19 minutes ago, purbeast said: If Cousin's game doesn't change at all, then we should be at 10 to 12 wins this season. I expect our defense and run game to improve. That alone is worth like 2-4 wins. And if KC plays the same, then that means 8 wins. So 8 + 2 or 4 is 10 or 12. This assumes we are playing in a vacuum - among many other assumptions. Other teams drafted and tried to improve as well. Our schedule is different - harder out of Division schedule this year IMO. 10 wins would be an achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, MartinC said: This assumes we are playing in a vacuum - among many other assumptions. Other teams drafted and tried to improve as well. Our schedule is different - harder out of Division schedule this year IMO. 10 wins would be an achievement. This is why all those projections from USA Today or anyone else are just BS. It compares the headlines of the offseason to the 2016 teams as opposed to taking into account every change for every team in 2017. While ten wins would be an achievement, 12 is possible. Three is also possible. Last time I made a projection based the previous season was in 2006. We were 10-6 the previous year, so I projected 13-3. And then I sadded. A lot of the always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Well, we know Kirk's agent is hopping and skipping all the way to the bank every time Kirk signs a tag. 3 minutes ago, Tay said: If Kirk plays at top 5-7 QB level, I think we apply the franchise tag and try to do a LTD before the draft. If we can't get a LTD before the draft I think we should make an effort to make a play for one of the top quarterbacks in the draft. If Kirk plays same level or slightly regress, we apply the transition tag. The only way I'd let him walk is if another team signs him to a deal with excessively high AAV, that would make it difficult to build around him going forward. He would end up in a tough situation in that scenario. If he signs the tag and looks to play on another 1 year deal, I think we should draft a top quarterback. Question is, are they going to be looking for a traditional pocket QB, or will they look in the scrambling, take-off-and-run if-you-see-a-chance QB? You can bet that if they do look at a running QB, he will be about 5'10 to 6'0, and will peter out within a year, and back to square 1 again. I've pretty much given up hope at this point of them signing Cousins; every TD he throws, there will be fingers pointing. Every interception he throws, there will be finger pointing. KC will feel like an ant under all of the magnifying glasses, with both sides pointing out every single thing going on. If the 'team' improves, especially defense, it will spell more wins provided KC keeps playing good, but if he struggles, its gonna get messy, real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, MartinC said: This assumes we are playing in a vacuum - among many other assumptions. Other teams drafted and tried to improve as well. Our schedule is different - harder out of Division schedule this year IMO. 10 wins would be an achievement. I agree, but when we're talking about "playing the same/better/worse" you have to make assumptions. KC could play better than last year and they could only win 4 games. He could play worse than last year and they could win 16. We don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Some teams don't get it. We happen to all be following one that doesn't get it. Today at lunch I hear this https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboys/2017/07/24/dez-bryant-love-devotion-cowboys-feel-like-nobody-reps-star Quote Me personally, I feel like nobody reps the star more than me. That's not a shot directed toward nobody. That's just how I feel. "I love the star. I've always loved it. I love the fans and I put my all out for them. I don't care if I'm injured, I'm going to try my best to get out there and play. It's how I've always been. "I love Dallas,'' Bryant continued. " I love this place, I love everything about it. I love the coaches. I love Jerry Jones. I love Stephen (Jones). I love everyone around this place. I work for them.'' The last guy I remember the players here saying that about in the Brass drank his way right out of town. I don't think I've heard one player say they loved Daniel Snyder since Clinton Portis. Why am I posting this? Because imo the Cousins drama would have gone down much differently if he felt half as much as that towards this teams brass. And if we had a smart man running the operations the negotiations not only would have gone down differently. Way differently. I present you one way the team could have done this better Just one example of teams doing it better then the Redskins: Chiefs draft Patrick Mahomes Why is that important? The Chiefs have Alex Smith, a decent enough QB playing now. They want to move on from Alex Smith next year. They know throwing a rookie into the fire early in his career can be a career killer. So what's a fully functioning smart team move to have made with the Chiefs wanting to move on from Smith this draft, not next draft? Draft a QB high in the money round. Why do that? For several reasons a.) The rookie needs to sit and learn for a year. Drafting a year before you need him to play is smart b.) The team needs a direction. The fans know that Mahomes is the future. This is the future c.) This team needed to get some sort of leverage in the Kirk Cousins negotiation. Drafting a QB high in 2017 even if it meant moving up and drafting Mahomes ourselves and surrendering picks to move up 6 spots would have given them some leverage in this negotiation. Kirk won't sign? Oh well, the future is already on the bench. Now what if Kirk then wanted to sign with us after drafting a QB? Easy we then trade the first round QB after showcasing for two preseasons for something of value, maybe even more then he was drafted for ala Jimmy G. The peace of mind of having this leverage could have really helped the team Instead this teams playing some game with itself now saying Colt McCoy is the future when most everyone knows what Colt McCoy is and that's a QB backup and not a Franchise Qb. Since pretty much everyone thinks that what does it mean? The team has no future plans and really is all in with Kirk now but just won't admit it to themselves. That only makes them look worse and strengthen Kirks belief he holds all the leverage and to play hard ball. 50 minutes ago, Tay said: If he signs the tag and looks to play on another 1 year deal, I think we should draft a top quarterback. Quoting because you inspired me to post that above. IMO drafting a QB when you have a serious need for one is the wrong thing to do. Doing that gets you Jason Campbell. Acting in advance and proper planning gets you Aaron Rodgers. If we tag him again next year we need to be trading him next year for more then a third round free pick. We could have moved him this year for a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th from the 49ers I heard. If Kirk does leave I would rather have had that then a single late third round pick of course. I would much rather have Kirk though. Drafting QBs in the first round has a less then a 1/3rd chance of them being good. We would be better off finding a vet ourselves and trading for him if we had to. But I hope it never comes to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 55 minutes ago, MartinC said: This assumes we are playing in a vacuum - among many other assumptions. Other teams drafted and tried to improve as well. Our schedule is different - harder out of Division schedule this year IMO. 10 wins would be an achievement. According to Football Outsiders he played the single hardest schedule last year of every QB in the league and still had a winning record. #1 in 2016 DVOA schedule. That's why I have no idea why anyone thinks the man has reached his ceiling at this point. There is no where to go but easier for him and he's shown he can beat the easier opponents. Unless you think he's going to be playing the #1 hardest schedule again this year. If he is and goes nuts all any team in the league has to do is structure a contract like Year 1 - $40 million guaranteed money year one paid and the rest of it won't even matter this organization can not match any offer like that. That's not even a poison pill contract when a team with 80 million in free space decides they are going to get their QB locked up and since they have the money to burn now gets it out of the way early. We will have like 40 million in cap space total next year and couldn't match anything like that and that's on the horizon for us. Not good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, purbeast said: I expect our defense and run game to improve. Why? Seriously, why? (Please don't use an argument that applies equally well to the other 31 teams) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: I was just listening to Schefter's segment on 980 for the first time. Its in the 980 archives. Boy does he play up the point that Kirk not trusting the FO is the core issue. He is another guy who thinks a transition tag wouldn't work. He says its still too easy to stagger contracts with the transition tag. No point in using the TT IMO. A deal will exceed that and tbh if Kirk doesn't want to be here or if he wants a fresh start somewhere else, I don't think it'd be good for team morale to force him to stay regardless of whether or not he is professional during the duration of the contract. I also agree it's more the trust aspect than anything. Kirk doesn't really strike me as the kind of guy that would willingly cripple the rest of his team because of personal feelings. As usual, I think all the other crap is just hyped up or fabricated by media to keep fans interested in football. Hell, it worked on us. I'm as guilty as anyone. 4 minutes ago, Tsailand said: Why? Seriously, why? (Please don't use an argument that applies equally well to the other 31 teams) Because we addressed them in the offseason both via the draft and via FA, both through addition and through subtraction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Oof https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/priscos-most-overrated-nfl-players-of-2017-is-kirk-cousins-really-worth-it/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Prisco couldn't find his butt with both hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Because we addressed them in the offseason both via the draft and via FA, both through addition and through subtraction? Every team does this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Oof https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/priscos-most-overrated-nfl-players-of-2017-is-kirk-cousins-really-worth-it/ Eh, its Pete Prisco. I guess you can add him to the handful of other guys that don't believe he's worth the money. He's not really saying anything new though. I think most everyone is well aware that Kirk is not at this time elite. There are going to be several other non-elite guys that get big contracts soon. It's not about how much he's worth, it's about how much he's worth TO US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, Tsailand said: Why? Seriously, why? (Please don't use an argument that applies equally well to the other 31 teams) Confused by the (..) but I will bite. I think the Defense and running game can improve. I like Perine to improve the running game as I think he can come in and be a real proper short yardage RB. We didn't have that piece last year. I'm not very high on him replacing Kelley as the every down back but rather someone who can spell him and keep his legs fresh won't hurt. That strength he possesses could be a real asset if used right. I can see him falling for a few yards when we really need it ala more first downs and more TDs. We have three RBs - Kelley first and second down, Thompson 3rd downs, Perine short yardage...guys as a unit could make for a much better unit this year. Defensively a couple of things I like about it to move them from ranked 30th to middle of the pack includes more pass rush, a better tackling linebacker group, a career defining season for Breeland (he's a FA next year so I will give him the better of the doubt he plays better), and lastly I believe the team when they say Norman will be a cover corner this year. It was asinine to not use him that way early last season. These are Redskins players, so unique to this team not the other 31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Tsailand said: Every team does this. Not necessarily. GB didn't do much to help their running game for example. In fact they got rid of their #1 back, or at least let him walk. Even still, yes, obviously every team tries to get better. That doesn't take away from the fact that the additions of Allen, Brown, Swearinger, Andersen etc will definitely help make that defense better. 5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Eh, its Pete Prisco. I guess you can add him to the handful of other guys that don't believe he's worth the money. He's not really saying anything new though. I think most everyone is well aware that Kirk is not at this time elite. There are going to be several other non-elite guys that get big contracts soon. It's not about how much he's worth, it's about how much he's worth TO US. Agreed, I just thought the "most overrated player in the nfl" tag is harsh. As you know i've been hard on Kirk, but even I think that label is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I don't see how our run game is improved. Our O line is not what most think it is. They couldn't open a running lane last year to save their lives. Perine minus whatshisname doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Oof https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/priscos-most-overrated-nfl-players-of-2017-is-kirk-cousins-really-worth-it/ Opinions like this miss the whole point in this situation. Kirk is the right guy, right age, right time and right everything in his favor. is he the best QB hell no, not even close. That doesn't change anything. He's just got amazing timing. That doesn't make him over rated. When we gave Albert the 100 million bucks not one person thought he was the best defensive player in the league. Contracts don't represent player value. That author is a joke imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said: I don't see how our run game is improved. Our O line is not what most think it is. They couldn't open a running lane last year to save their lives. Perine minus whatshisname doesn't change that. Completely disagree. I thought the line was doing a great job in the first quarter of the season and Jones was making some nice runs. Problem was the dude was a fumbling machine and we just stopped trusting the run game. The line is top 10 in NFL for sure and the WCO really doesn't rely on the line to open up holes so much as it relies on the defenses to spread out creating holes. Perine is the physical runner Jones was supposed to be, but Jones decided he wanted to tip-top around defenders and he failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: Not necessarily. GB didn't do much to help their running game for example. In fact they got rid of their #1 back, or at least let him walk. idk man Eddie is a mess, weight aside the guy is injured a lot and hasn't really done much since 2014. The Packers did add three backs in the draft not sure they lost much other then name recognition at the position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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