Skinsinparadise Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 This is probably the most cynical take of the Kirk contract and the take of the team. I share some of this dude's take but IMO he takes it a bit too far for me. I do think though he does a good job summarizing that fans and the FO fall into 3 different points of views about Kirk. http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/08/04/the-redskins-have-already-lost-the-2017-season/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Cutler just signed with the Dolphins for one year $10M. So he'll be available for us next year, and at a lot cheaper than Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 10 hours ago, Tsailand said: Cutler just signed with the Dolphins for one year $10M. So he'll be available for us next year, and at a lot cheaper than Kirk. The modern day Jeff George. That is so us. Can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 The lesson I learned from this is that a "show me before I pay you" strategy does not make sense, especially when dealing with a QB. What possible outcome are you hoping for? That he plays well but is willing to take a less money? Good luck with that. You have to make a bet on a player earlier on. You must gamble. Once he "shows you", you have no more leverage. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 11 hours ago, Tsailand said: Cutler just signed with the Dolphins for one year $10M. So he'll be available for us next year, and at a lot cheaper than Kirk. Just say no to Cutler! Let's just hope we get a good QB in the 1st round instead. 18 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said: The lesson I learned from this is that a "show me before I pay you" strategy does not make sense, especially when dealing with a QB. What possible outcome are you hoping for? That he plays well but is willing to take a less money? Good luck with that. You have to make a bet on a player earlier on. You must gamble. Once he "shows you", you have no more leverage. Duh. They did gamble. That he sucks and wouldn't have to pay him more...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 In short last year the Redskins said "Show me before I pay you", and this year Kirk said "Show me before I play for you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Quote “A lot of it goes back to, these contracts are not baseball contracts; they’re not basketball contracts,” Cousins said. “As a result, you’re not really signing a five-year deal, you’re not really signing a six-year deal. You’re signing a two-year deal, and then there is an obligation for several years after that. And that just didn’t sit well with me, and I’m better off, if those are my options, I’m better off signing a one-year deal and then having freedom.” This is from Graz piece where he interviewed Kirk. It goes back to Kirk wanting more than the standard NFL contract. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out next offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 38 minutes ago, Tay said: This is from Graz piece where he interviewed Kirk. It goes back to Kirk wanting more than the standard NFL contract. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out next offseason. Agreed. That Graz article makes it abundantly clear that Kirk wasnt signing a LTD this off season regardless. Not that I can blame him. But the Redskins were not signing him long term no matter how bad they wanted too. Now I know many will say they should have done it last off season. But hindsight is worthless. He wasnt worth then what he is now. Lets see how this season goes and move on from there. At least next years draft is very deep at the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: Agreed. That Graz article makes it abundantly clear that Kirk wasnt signing a LTD this off season regardless. Not that I can blame him. But the Redskins were not signing him long term no matter how bad they wanted too. Now I know many will say they should have done it last off season. But hindsight is worthless. He wasnt worth then what he is now. Lets see how this season goes and move on from there. At least next years draft is very deep at the QB position. I don't believe that for a second. Had the Redskins made him a fair viable offer, he would have gladly accepted it IMO. As he's said so many times, he wants to be where he's wanted, and giving someone a lot of money means you want him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 From the latest Cousins interview being referenced above it sure seems like Cousins was planning on the franchise tag for 2017 regardless of what he was offered. Ok maaaaybe if he was offered something way over the top he would have felt compelled to sign, but it sure seems like from his own mouth that the franchise tag was what he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 5 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said: The lesson I learned from this is that a "show me before I pay you" strategy does not make sense, especially when dealing with a QB. What possible outcome are you hoping for? That he plays well but is willing to take a less money? Good luck with that. You have to make a bet on a player earlier on. You must gamble. Once he "shows you", you have no more leverage. Duh. TBH I don't even think it's about leverage anymore. I think it's a simple case of the team is well aware that at this point forward in order to keep Kirk her for the forseeable future, they are going to have to make him the highest paid player in the NFL. I think they knew that the moment they slapped the second FT on him. But at least now you have one more year to be convinced he's worthy. There's been a consistent disagreement here in terms of what his stats represented in terms of his quality of play, and i'm sure that same disagreement is present with management. I know it's easy to blame the FO because it's not our money being thrown around, but really, no one can predict the future an right now Kirk's inconsistency over the last couple of years is the biggest stumbling block. Who is Kirk? We simply don't know. https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/08/07/kirk-cousins-washington-contract-negotiations-franchise-tag Positive spin article today on SI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 1 hour ago, NoCalMike said: From the latest Cousins interview being referenced above it sure seems like Cousins was planning on the franchise tag for 2017 regardless of what he was offered. Ok maaaaybe if he was offered something way over the top he would have felt compelled to sign, but it sure seems like from his own mouth that the franchise tag was what he wanted. Yes, but the team (aka Dan and Bruce) didn't even try to change his mind. They didn't make an offer which would have had his agent and wife and father say, "Hey Kirk, I think you should consider signing that deal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 45 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: TBH I don't even think it's about leverage anymore. I think it's a simple case of the team is well aware that at this point forward in order to keep Kirk her for the forseeable future, they are going to have to make him the highest paid player in the NFL. I think that is actually a very good summary. If Cousins gets the contract he is asking for (likely asking for) he will be the highest paid player in the NFL. The front office is not comfortable at this time making him the highest paid player in the NFL. 2017 will likely be the final judgment of whether the FO feels is worth that kind of a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 4 hours ago, purbeast said: I don't believe that for a second. Had the Redskins made him a fair viable offer, he would have gladly accepted it IMO. As he's said so many times, he wants to be where he's wanted, and giving someone a lot of money means you want him here. Kirk wasn't going to sign with us long term this year unless we offered him a significant amount of guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Spearfeather said: Kirk wasn't going to sign with us long term this year unless we offered him a significant amount of guaranteed money. Ie., a fair market contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, purbeast said: Ie., a fair market contract. Which would have been what ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Well, the deadline has come and gone, and somehow we've survived the doom and gloom of not getting him signed. So, instead of the constant finger-pointing of who is to blame, how about re-directing the board a little; focusing on the future. Kirk's gonna play under the tag this year, right? So, we're all in agreement on that. BUT, now comes the even more complex aspect of the future. Now serious consideration has to be factored in regarding his production, and how/if it will affect signing him next year of not. Let's face it; not that I want it, but KC could struggle big time this year; hec, he could fall flat on his face. If that were to happen, it has to become a big factor in the negotiations and amount if they want to sign him. This would be the one thing that would turn a lot of Redskin fans off and away from KC if he were to continue wanting to be among the top paid QBs in the league, and honestly I don't see the FO even entertaining any discussions regarding that plateau. If it does happen this way, it most likely will be the last we see of him, or would it ? Do you think other teams would be willing to shell out a big paycheck to a QB that is regressing? Now the coin flips. Cousins could continue playing well, maybe better this year. If a postseason soiree' comes, I'd have to guess that depending on the outcome of the game, his value goes up. If a loss in the first postseason game, I could see a birds nest of issues that would come up. But if we won, that would only boost his value even higher. If the FO was so hesitant to pay him after last season, how do you think they will react after a win? I'd bet his agent would have a 24 hour chub, salivating at the prospects to come, from the Redskins or someone else. How would it affect your views of him if the amount increased, as it more than likely will should this transpire. Everyone can point fingers all day long at what happened in the past; it is done now, nothing to do but wait and see what this year brings. SIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 14 hours ago, Spearfeather said: Which would have been what ? google is your friend. It's been discussed to death on this board and by NFL analysts and experts alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 8 hours ago, purbeast said: google is your friend. It's been discussed to death on this board and by NFL analysts and experts alike. Thanks for the tip. Cousins wasn't going to sign long term unless we offered him a significant amount of guaranteed money. He told management he preferred to take the one-year deal (with the large amount of guaranteed money) When asked about the contract earlier, Cousins referred to many players being on " one year deals ", and hes " in a good place right now, or in other words, " I like the one year deal thing, for now ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 17 hours ago, skins island connection said: Let's face it; not that I want it, but KC could struggle big time this year; hec, he could fall flat on his face. If that were to happen, it has to become a big factor in the negotiations and amount if they want to sign him. This would be the one thing that would turn a lot of Redskin fans off and away from KC if he were to continue wanting to be among the top paid QBs in the league, and honestly I don't see the FO even entertaining any discussions regarding that plateau. If it does happen this way, it most likely will be the last we see of him, or would it ? Do you think other teams would be willing to shell out a big paycheck to a QB that is regressing? If he does struggle then I see it as being the final nail in the coffin for Kirk being a redskin. Kirk doesn't seem like someone who would back away from his contract demands now regardless of how this year pans out. He'll still want a ridiculous amount of guaranteed money and he won't get it from us, who already admitted skepticism of his ceiling. Other teams would be willing to shell out because other teams like Cleveland and SF are still a couple years away from being legit contenders at least and can afford to take a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, Spearfeather said: Thanks for the tip. Cousins wasn't going to sign long term unless we offered him a significant amount of guaranteed money. He told management he preferred to take the one-year deal (with the large amount of guaranteed money) When asked about the contract earlier, Cousins referred to many players being on " one year deals ", and hes in a good place right now, or in other words, " I like the one year deal thing, for now. I think most people would like it if they were working for 1 year @ a rate of $24 million dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 49 minutes ago, purbeast said: I think most people would like it if they were working for 1 year @ a rate of $24 million dollars. Not me. Think of the taxes! No thank you, ma'am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, purbeast said: I think most people would like it if they were working for 1 year @ a rate of $24 million dollars. " The move puts more pressure on him to perform this season but also gives him the chance to earn more money, now and in the long run. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 On 8/6/2017 at 11:35 PM, Tsailand said: Cutler just signed with the Dolphins for one year $10M. So he'll be available for us next year, and at a lot cheaper than Kirk. So who knew that Cousins in two years starting had thrown more single season yards and single season TDs then Jay Cutler in his career? Now I don't see much difference personally between Ryan Tannehill and Smoking Jay but to me Cousins is better then Cutty and would be a downgrade if they went that direction. If I missed the sarcasm my apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The problem with a QB playing on one year deals like Cousins is that there is a range of outcomes to a single season. SIC just touched on this much better then I could but think about it. Everyone remembers the year Tom Brady didn't finish a single game and everyone remembers the year he almost played a perfect season throwing for 50 TDs. If Tom Brady was playing on a one year deal the year between the two ranges the outcome financially would have been massive. There is a lot of risk involved for Kirk here which makes the offer they floated in the presser that much more insane to me. At least they could have made him have a real choice here the way the money lined out he wasn't risking that much in terms of money. He's going to get that much money minus a career injury might take a year or two longer but he will get that guarenteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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