PFT.com: Washington promotes Greg Manusky to DC, Hires Jim Tomsula as Dline Coach. Hires Torrian Gray as DB coach!

[RandyHolt]

I will be the fish that swims upstream and say that Scot now doesn't plan wholesale personnel changes on defense. I thought the same would happen a year ago and I was wrong. He will draft a few guys on D like every team does every year. Our big pickup presume via FA will be a nose. Who's available in FA will largely dictate the moves he makes.

 

I think Manusky really does believe in his guys and wasn't blowing smoke to dominate an interview. What are the chances our guys are all that horrible yet were close the playoffs 2 straight years? Yep they were good enough to almost make the playoffs in 16 despite an inconsistent stalling offense that underachieved, and a DC that was fired as soon as the season ended. I think our players were used horribly (its the systems stoopid!!!1!) starting with our inside backers, that lined up far off the LOS, barely moved presnap to confuse QBs, and heck barely moved post snap, until the play had long developed. ILBs reading had its merits, as we rarely got fooled by play action and the other stunts OCs tried.  But when push came to shove and we had to be aggressive to bail out the offense, generate some turnovers and take some risks.... that wasn't Barry and it wasn't us.  Our defense didn't have an image, a theme, a leader, no character... it was just bleh. Doc will tell you - you need some fire! You gotta want it.

 

Every DC says they are going to pressure QBs but to be honest think many DCs are largely afraid to do so, for that is how they get scorched quickly. High risk high reward. The nose we get, and how and when he is used, will shape our defense. If he is a game changer, Manusky will not be as aggressive with his backers as some of us may be expecting after hearing him speak.

 

I can't believe we are still searching for a nose.

 

 

[Reaper Skins]

17 hours ago, NeverSurrender said:

I would really like to see Speights get more time.  I think he could be a gem.  Who knows though.

I'm still holding out hope for the kid we got from Boston College.  Stephen Daniels.  Draft profile talks about a sure tackler who has a strong interior presence and is rarely confused in coverage.  Compared him to Brandon Spikes.  He did have physical limits, but I'm hoping with a year in our weight training program and recovery from his labrum injury he takes on a bigger role.  

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-steven-daniels-lb-boston-college/

 

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

I will be the fish that swims upstream and say that Scot now doesn't plan wholesale personnel changes on defense. I thought the same would happen a year ago and I was wrong. He will draft a few guys on D like every team does every year. Our big pickup presume via FA will be a nose. Who's available in FA will largely dictate the moves he makes.

 

I think Manusky really does believe in his guys and wasn't blowing smoke to dominate an interview. What are the chances our guys are all that horrible yet were close the playoffs 2 straight years? Yep they were good enough to almost make the playoffs in 16 despite an inconsistent stalling offense that underachieved, and a DC that was fired as soon as the season ended. I think our players were used horribly (its the systems stoopid!!!1!) starting with our inside backers, that lined up far off the LOS, barely moved presnap to confuse QBs, and heck barely moved post snap, until the play had long developed. ILBs reading had its merits, as we rarely got fooled by play action and the other stunts OCs tried.  But when push came to shove and we had to be aggressive to bail out the offense, generate some turnovers and take some risks.... that wasn't Barry and it wasn't us.  Our defense didn't have an image, a theme, a leader, no character... it was just bleh. Doc will tell you - you need some fire! You gotta want it.

 

Every DC says they are going to pressure QBs but to be honest think many DCs are largely afraid to do so, for that is how they get scorched quickly. High risk high reward. The nose we get, and how and when he is used, will shape our defense. If he is a game changer, Manusky will not be as aggressive with his backers as some of us may be expecting after hearing him speak.

 

I can't believe we are still searching for a nose.

 

 

I think that Scott not planning wholesale personnel changes on defense is why we ended up hiring Manusky.  In FA, Scott tends to be driven by value (by this I mean guys who were undervalued by others, not necessarily cheap) and BPA (at least at the high end of the draft) which means he may or may not get the specific positions you think are weak.  Scott and the rest of the brain trust also thinks you can fix a lot of issues indirectly (something I agree with).

 

I think Manusky also knows he doesn't need a top-10 defense for this team to get to the playoffs and he probably believes he can get at least an average defense with the talent he has now.  He'd probably like a top-10 defense and wouldn't scoff if he got the horses. I think the other guys in play wanted those horses now at all costs.

[Jacoby6644]

So I may have missed something here. Keep seeing reports/rumors/grumbling about a segment of the players not liking Manusky. Is this just noise or are there substantiated reports/links/etc that claim the players don't like him???

[wilco_holland]

By the way. Saints look to be fishing in the same pont as us for assistant D coaches. We might need to keep an eye on that. 

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

With rare exceptions, I don't think the coach matters all that much.

 

Having said that, I am very excited about having a real-life hobo on the sidelines. 

[Saeth29]

On 1/23/2017 at 2:31 PM, RandyHolt said:

Murphy seemed better vs the run than Kerrigan and Smith IMO. Did his extra weight detract from him getting to the QB... not to my eyes. And he looked as good in the flat/space as the others.

 

For me, I have always thought Murphy was our best OLB against the run.  IIRC, that was the strongest part of his game especially during his rookie season.  Also, this is why I think Preston was drafted, because they wanted another pass rusher across from Kerrigan while Murphy would be the run stopping OLB.

[MartinC]

15 hours ago, skinny21 said:

First off, I think I agree with your last statement.  

 

Couple of clueless questions/points:

 

If they are focused on addressing NT, wouldn't that imply more 2 gapping? Or, at the least maybe a mix of the two?  Or, is it that we switch it up based on if we're in our base vs nickel D?  The latter probably makes the most sense to me since it would move us toward a more traditional 3-4, while still keeping the traditional 1 gapping you see in a 4-3 (at least as I understand them) 

 

Lining up a D'Line at a zero or 1 tech does not mean he has to be 2 gapping. Not all 3-4s are 2 gap defenses. Last year we were 1 gap in our 3-4 base.

 

Thats what I was saying in my earlier post. If we are staying mainly as a 1 gap defense the type of player we will want for that 0,1,3,5 tech role will be different. We need to sign and draft players that fit the system, so I'd look at more athletic DTs who can penetrate a gap and can play 1 tech in base and slide to 3 tech in sub packages. We use a 5tech in both base and sub so thats a given - and a big need IMO even if we bring Swaggy back.

 

Quote

 

I hope they (continue to?  I should know that...) run a hybrid.  A better dlineman (or more) that can play the run/occupy blockers/demand attention, ought to help the inside linebackers.  Judging by the last year+, I'm not sure I see our linebackers, particularly Compton, as thumpers.  It's going to be interesting who they start at ILB and how/if the scheme adjusts around them.  I'd think Manuskey could be more flexible if they pick up the nose (preferably one that can slide to DT), man corner and edge rusher (a more traditional LDE for nickel), he wants.  I'm guessing we see the strong safety in the box a lot, for example. 

 

 

 

 

 

Again this all depends on if we are 1 gap or 2 gap defense. If we are 1 gap you NEED your ILBs to be thumpers who can come up, shed and tackle. That did not happen far too often last year. 

[skinny21]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Lining up a D'Line at a zero or 1 tech does not mean he has to be 2 gapping. Not all 3-4s are 2 gap defenses. Last year we were 1 gap in our 3-4 base.

 

Thats what I was saying in my earlier post. If we are staying mainly as a 1 gap defense the type of player we will want for that 0,1,3,5 tech role will be different. We need to sign and draft players that fit the system, so I'd look at more athletic DTs who can penetrate a gap and can play 1 tech in base and slide to 3 tech in sub packages. We use a 5tech in both base and sub so thats a given - and a big need IMO even if we bring Swaggy back.

 

 

Again this all depends on if we are 1 gap or 2 gap defense. If we are 1 gap you NEED your ILBs to be thumpers who can come up, shed and tackle. That did not happen far too often last year. 

Yeah, I'm with you.  

 

Traditionally, 3-4s run 2 gap, correct?  My impression is that the Phillips tree seem to be the ones going against the grain.

 

Reading the tea leaves...

Manuskey said we're going to stop the run (no one is going to run on us)

He put NT high on his wish list

He didn't mention DT or ILB (aside from them being able to thump downhill)

3-4s traditionally 2 gap their linemen

NT's are generally used to occupy 2 gaps (someone like Ratliff in Dallas seems the exception I believe)

If he plans on sticking to a 1 gap D, you'd think ILB would be a pretty big need.

 

So, granted that I'm mostly talking out of my ***, I could see a lean towards playing more 2 gap with our linemen (or more than we have anyway).  I actually could see it more like Bradley's line - 1 (or 2?) guys playing 2 gap and the others shooting gaps.

 

 

 

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I'm with you.  

 

Traditionally, 3-4s run 2 gap, correct?  My impression is that the Phillips tree seem to be the ones going against the grain.

 

That was the 'traditional' approach. Now its more complex.

 

You can 2 gap, 1 gap and run a hybrid front out of a 3-4 look. Wade Philiips was someone who was among the first to use a 1 gap scheme in a 3-4 front. Some teams run a hybrid, normally 2 gap to the strong side and 1 gap to weak.

 

Bottom line is you can run either 1 gap or 2 gap in either a 3-4 or 4-3 front.

 

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

Reading the tea leaves...

Manuskey said we're going to stop the run (no one is going to run on us)

He put NT high on his wish list

He didn't mention DT or ILB (aside from them being able to thump downhill)

3-4s traditionally 2 gap their linemen

NT's are generally used to occupy 2 gaps (someone like Ratliff in Dallas seems the exception I believe)

If he plans on sticking to a 1 gap D, you'd think ILB would be a pretty big need.

 

So, granted that I'm mostly talking out of my ***, I could see a lean towards playing more 2 gap with our linemen (or more than we have anyway).  I actually could see it more like Bradley's line - 1 (or 2?) guys playing 2 gap and the others shooting gaps.

 

 

 

 

I could certainly see a hybrid approach. The decision of 1 gap or 2 gap is critical because that dictates the kind of player you want to target in free agency and the draft.

[skinny21]

10 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

That was the 'traditional' approach. Now its more complex.

 

You can 2 gap, 1 gap and run a hybrid front out of a 3-4 look. Wade Philiips was someone who was among the first to use a 1 gap scheme in a 3-4 front. Some teams run a hybrid, normally 2 gap to the strong side and 1 gap to weak.

 

Bottom line is you can run either 1 gap or 2 gap in either a 3-4 or 4-3 front.

 

 

I could certainly see a hybrid approach. The decision of 1 gap or 2 gap is critical because that dictates the kind of player you want to target in free agency and the draft.

Right on.  I guess I'm like many others in that ILB seems like such a big need, so I'm finding myself trying to reason why ILB wasn't mentioned on his "wishlist".

 

Thanks for the responses!

[Thinking Skins]

10 hours ago, Reaper Skins said:

I'm still holding out hope for the kid we got from Boston College.  Stephen Daniels.  Draft profile talks about a sure tackler who has a strong interior presence and is rarely confused in coverage.  Compared him to Brandon Spikes.  He did have physical limits, but I'm hoping with a year in our weight training program and recovery from his labrum injury he takes on a bigger role.  

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-steven-daniels-lb-boston-college/

 

 

I'm all for low round picks being given a shot, but I wouldn't want to go into the season with my hopes that he develops into anything more than a situational guy. It'd be one thing if there were reports of him being good in training camp, or us having some game film to judge him on, but its not too much we can say about scouting reports. Give him a shot, but lets draft somebody like Foster or Cunningham and at least bring in some guys who are competition for the starting spot in FA. It may not be a Z. Brown type player, but please give me somebody who plays more than teams. 

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Right on.  I guess I'm like many others in that ILB seems like such a big need, so I'm finding myself trying to reason why ILB wasn't mentioned on his "wishlist".

 

Thanks for the responses!

Maybe because it's our biggest need and he doesn't want to show our hand. Hes also probably close with them cats.

 

Although keeping only our LB coaches does lead me to believe we're happy there unfortunately. 

[Thinking Skins]

11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Maybe because it's our biggest need and he doesn't want to show our hand. Hes also probably close with them cats.

 

Although keeping only our LB coaches does lead me to believe we're happy there unfortunately. 

 

This scares me. If we don't realize the ILB is a problem, then its a problem not only with our coaches but with our scouts and our GM. We lost 2 ILBs (Robinson and Riley) last year and replaced them with a UDFA and a guy off the street (given a former higher round pick). It'd be nice if they were playing lights out but on a 31st ranked defense nobody's job should be safe. 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

This scares me. If we don't realize the ILB is a problem, then its a problem not only with our coaches but with our scouts and our GM. We lost 2 ILBs (Robinson and Riley) last year and replaced them with a UDFA and a guy off the street (given a former higher round pick). It'd be nice if they were playing lights out but on a 31st ranked defense nobody's job should be safe. 

Well, it really couldn't be more obvious. Other than the issues with Bash, most of the times we were repeatedly beaten, was the middle. TEs and WEs coming through the middle on 3rd Downs over and over and over. Not to mention how often Compton got blown up by a guard or a RB with steam carrying him 3 more yards down field.

 

I mean, 7th round picks, UDFA and street pick ups is all we've thrown in there. Absolutely zero investment other than hope while we watch Sean Lee continue to carry a defense that shouldn't be able to stop us.

 

Timmons and Foster is what im hoping for.

[SkinsGuy]

11 hours ago, Jacoby6644 said:

So I may have missed something here. Keep seeing reports/rumors/grumbling about a segment of the players not liking Manusky. Is this just noise or are there substantiated reports/links/etc that claim the players don't like him???

 

I haven't, read, heard, or seen anything like that.

[Thinking Skins]

14 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I will be the fish that swims upstream and say that Scot now doesn't plan wholesale personnel changes on defense. I thought the same would happen a year ago and I was wrong. He will draft a few guys on D like every team does every year. Our big pickup presume via FA will be a nose. Who's available in FA will largely dictate the moves he makes.

 

 

The more I think about it the more I think you're right about this. I was just looking through te 2016 FA thread and its surprising how rarely we even came up in discussion with a FA.

 

Free-agent DE Chris Long will visit the Redskins on Tuesday. (via @wingoz)
Have no idea if true, but @ProCanes says the #Redskins are one of three suitors for RB Lamar Miller from the #Dolphins. @1067theFan now!
Many teams in on #Bengals WR Mohamed Sanu, including #Giants, #Patriots, #Falcons, #Cowboys, #Redskins, #Bucs
Redskins have some interest in FS Reggie Nelson. Tenth-year vet, 5-11, 210, 77 tackles, 8 INTs last year for CIN.
Broncos TE Vernon Davis visiting the Redskins today, per source - GM Scot McCloughan connection to TE.
DL Andre Branch is headed to the #Redskins to visit, source said.
Skins have agreed to terms with former Chargers DL Kendall Reyes on a a new contract

John Keim ‏@john_keim  3m3 minutes ago
Clear focus early on: DL and pass rushers. no surprise. Only one signing (reyes) but did talk to Ngata, had Long in and Branch visits today

I'm told LB Terence Garvin is visiting the #Redskins today.
The Redskins hosted safety David Bruton Tuesday, according to a source. Bruton played strong safety for Denver and suffered a season-ending broken fibula on Dec. 20. The Broncos reportedly remain interested in re-signing a player who has been a team captain the last three years.
 Like this
IT'S OFFICIAL: #Redskins sign free agent safety David Bruton.
And there it is . Chris Long is going to New England.
WR Anquan Boldin (13,195 yards, 1,009 receptions) reportedly visiting with #Redskins. 1f4da.png: http://redsk.in/1XZZVZj
DT Terrance Knighton, who visited the #Patriots today, is visiting the #Redskins tomorrow, source said. #intrigue
The Skins have agreed to terms with free agent TE Vernon Davis. The DC native is returning home
Nice catch by @SCzardaRedskins. RB Stevan Ridley apparently chose #Lions over #Redskins: 
Free agent CB Greg Toler is visiting with the #Redskins today, source said. The LB coach is his former DC at Indy, Greg Manusky
Teams expressing most interest in former Panthers CB Josh Norman so far include SF, Washington, Pittsburgh, Miami. Others also making pitch.
I'm told CB Josh Norman has agreed to terms with the #Redskins.
The redskins are building a defense with players who have passion and attitude. Will be energetic bunch

 

Those are tweets from various sources about different players. We all had fantasies about different players and for the most part we just saw them sign elsewhere without even giving us consideration. Maybe Scot made the courteous phone call, but none of the big-to-medium name guys even came here.

 

Key thing is we were actually excited about Bruton based on a few games and his draft profile. Maybe Barry used him wrong, but we had a chance to get Weddle or Gipson and went for Bruton. Who's to say we won't do the same this year? We also went for NOBODY at DT. We had an offer for Knighton but he went to the Patriots, got cut and we didn't sign him back. How much of this was Scot vs Barry wanting the wrong guys? I'm hesitant to blame a DC for scouting guys because that's not his job. He may have been an advocate for Reyes but he was signed to be a backup. Maybe Barry argued against Knighton, or in favor of Golston, but there were so many holes not addressed and not even attempted to be addressed that I'm afraid to get my hopes up that we'll even address the issues in FA. And I kinda like that because I want to use the draft, but I have a feeling that we'll draft a bunch of "football players" who don't have a position on 50% of snaps in a game. 

[MartinC]

14 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

The more I think about it the more I think you're right about this. I was just looking through te 2016 FA thread and its surprising how rarely we even came up in discussion with a FA.

 

 

 

 

Who's to say we won't do the same this year? We also went for NOBODY at DT. We had an offer for Knighton but he went to the Patriots, got cut and we didn't sign him back. How much of this was Scot vs Barry wanting the wrong guys? 

 

We signed Reyes at DT in free agency. Did not go well.

 

We have to invest in some quality free agents or high draft picks on that D'Line. 

[maskedsuperstar]

On 1/25/2017 at 3:04 PM, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I'm with you.  

 

Traditionally, 3-4s run 2 gap, correct?  My impression is that the Phillips tree seem to be the ones going against the grain.

 

Reading the tea leaves...

Manuskey said we're going to stop the run (no one is going to run on us)

He put NT high on his wish list

He didn't mention DT or ILB (aside from them being able to thump downhill)

3-4s traditionally 2 gap their linemen

NT's are generally used to occupy 2 gaps (someone like Ratliff in Dallas seems the exception I believe)

If he plans on sticking to a 1 gap D, you'd think ILB would be a pretty big need.

 

So, granted that I'm mostly talking out of my ***, I could see a lean towards playing more 2 gap with our linemen (or more than we have anyway).  I actually could see it more like Bradley's line - 1 (or 2?) guys playing 2 gap and the others shooting gaps.

 

 

 

Yes, Ratliff was barely 300lbs. but he was a one gap NT, in Wades defense. In one gap, the DL are smaller and quicker.

If the Skins continue with the one gap, Poe should be on the radar.

On 1/25/2017 at 11:05 PM, Thinking Skins said:

 

The more I think about it the more I think you're right about this. I was just looking through te 2016 FA thread and its surprising how rarely we even came up in discussion with a FA.

 

 

 

 

Those are tweets from various sources about different players. We all had fantasies about different players and for the most part we just saw them sign elsewhere without even giving us consideration. Maybe Scot made the courteous phone call, but none of the big-to-medium name guys even came here.

 

Key thing is we were actually excited about Bruton based on a few games and his draft profile. Maybe Barry used him wrong, but we had a chance to get Weddle or Gipson and went for Bruton. Who's to say we won't do the same this year? We also went for NOBODY at DT. We had an offer for Knighton but he went to the Patriots, got cut and we didn't sign him back. How much of this was Scot vs Barry wanting the wrong guys? I'm hesitant to blame a DC for scouting guys because that's not his job. He may have been an advocate for Reyes but he was signed to be a backup. Maybe Barry argued against Knighton, or in favor of Golston, but there were so many holes not addressed and not even attempted to be addressed that I'm afraid to get my hopes up that we'll even address the issues in FA. And I kinda like that because I want to use the draft, but I have a feeling that we'll draft a bunch of "football players" who don't have a position on 50% of snaps in a game. 

Made no sense to bring in Knighton. He's a 2 gap NT. And for 4 mil, 10-12 plays a game? Nah! And Scot didn't make that mistake again.

[skinny21]

18 minutes ago, maskedsuperstar said:

Yes, Ratliff was barely 300lbs. but he was a one gap NT, in Wades defense. In one gap, the DL are smaller and quicker.

If the Skins continue with the one gap, Poe should be on the radar.

Made no sense to bring in Knighton. He's a 2 gap NT. And for 4 mil, 10-12 plays a game? Nah! And Scot didn't make that mistake again.

I'm so torn on this issue.  Part of me says picking up a lineman (2 would be better) that can penetrate means more TFLs and more pressure on the qb.  On the other hand, if the line doesn't make a play, it puts more stress on the ILBs... and I'm not sure our guys are up to that challenge.  I think my hope is that they find a lineman that take on double teams, but is versatile (and athletic enough) to play DT in our nickel looks and not get abused if a team runs a hurry up O.

 

That nose can help keep the ILBs clean, keep the other linemen from getting doubled, and allow them to still shoot gaps to pressure run and pass.

 

If I had to guess though, the D continues with a 1 gapping line, and has the linebackers (and/or the SS) shoot gaps to impact run and pass.  I'm guessing that the fans that wanted to exchange giving up big plays for more pressure are going to get their wish.

 

 

 

The only way I could see Knighton returning is 1) we miss out on the better FA dlinemen, and/or 2) he lost enough weight that they believe he can slide over to a 3 or 5 tech and 1 gap effectively.

[RandyHolt]

Did we conclusively know that we 1 gapped our nose last season?

 

Disclaimer, I have no clue, but figured extensive 1 gaps would lead to guys beating their blocks and it easily seen. Blind squirrel finding a nut.

 

[BTBIRD 227]

Everyone keeps referring to free agency as the cure all for our troubles on the defensive side of the ball. 

If I remember correctly Scott M was basically against major free agency acquisitions. Scott M feels the free agency  is for teams to get rid of malcontents and or  has beens. Yes there are a few gems out there in free agency (Norman), but most of the time free agents are some other teams headache or pre Madonnas or just plain people living on their past accomplishments.

Scott likes youth on his football squad , to build the defense we need a good draft, and I think Manusky would prefer players he can mold in to his brand of player. 

I just want to see the Skins to be very wise in their decisions , we have the cap numbers in our favor, build  Manusky's  defense thru the draft, Hail

[Koolblue13]

If we're one gap, we need bigger better ILBs.

 

If we're two gap, we need a better NT.

[Peregrine]

12 hours ago, BTBIRD 227 said:

Everyone keeps referring to free agency as the cure all for our troubles on the defensive side of the ball. 

If I remember correctly Scott M was basically against major free agency acquisitions. Scott M feels the free agency  is for teams to get rid of malcontents and or  has beens. Yes there are a few gems out there in free agency (Norman), but most of the time free agents are some other teams headache or pre Madonnas or just plain people living on their past accomplishments.

Scott likes youth on his football squad , to build the defense we need a good draft, and I think Manusky would prefer players he can mold in to his brand of player. 

I just want to see the Skins to be very wise in their decisions , we have the cap numbers in our favor, build  Manusky's  defense thru the draft, Hail

I would agree that most of the time FA is for teams to get rid of players they dont want, which is a red flag.  But, sometimes, teams get rid of players because they just cant afford to keep 2 guys, and so they have to let one go.  Thats what a salary cap will do for you. Its those guys you go after, and Scotty Mac has said hes not against picking up players in FA.  Josh Norman is clear evidence of that.  At some point we have to spend our 60 million.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

21 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Did we conclusively know that we 1 gapped our nose last season?

 

Disclaimer, I have no clue, but figured extensive 1 gaps would lead to guys beating their blocks and it easily seen. Blind squirrel finding a nut.

 

I don't think we conclusively know a thing here on ES