The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[clskinsfan]

17 hours ago, moondog said:

And I know everyone gets spun up about free agents but I don't see swearinger as some great player for us. I think he'll be an average starter that we will grow tired of due to attitude and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties.

 

What? Swearinger had 2 penalties in 16 games last year and his ONLY personal foul was a facemask????

 

http://www.nflpenalties.com/player/d-swearinger-arizona-cardinals?year=2016

[petedaddy]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

What? Swearinger had 2 penalties in 16 games last year and his ONLY personal foul was a facemask????

 

http://www.nflpenalties.com/player/d-swearinger-arizona-cardinals?year=2016

 

It was a really vicious hit

 

 

he then proceeded to set drew brees on fire, we will surely grow tired of these antics

 

 

[seantaylor=god]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

thanks, if you buy into some of the mocks the two big names that might be a surpise fall to #17 are M. Hooker or R. Foster.  

 

I think there is a pretty good chance Foster is there. ILBs tend to slip and I have read about negative issues surrounding him.  

1. He did poorly with teams on X's and O's; he has good instincts but there are questions about how quickly he will learn the defense and contribute. (I don't have a problem with this because we don't need him to start immediately, and he has a great history of contributing on ST at Alabama, so he will still contribute early.)

 

2. He surroundings himself with bad influences (I would have a real problem with this.)

[Koolblue13]

4 hours ago, MariusVT said:

I think there's zero chance they spend every draft pick on the D like some are dreaming here.

Really? Thats unfortunate. I really thought every pick would be spent on Defense. We'd be the first team in history to only draft one side of the ball. Especially after signing 6 starters in 2 years.

4 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

I know. That part is what concerns me. Jay just seems to think that Tomsula can make something from nothing, and it really bothers me. The DL has been an afterthought since he has been here, and NT even less so. I'm actually really concerned we'll end up drafting 2-3 offensive players early and then wonder why the defense is tanking again mid-season.

I dont think Jay is arrogant enough to believe coaching up is a real thing. Hes a smart guy. He knows a coaches job is to put the talent in position to excel, not plug potato salad into a cracking damn and call it plaster.

20 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

 

 

2. He surroundings himself with bad influences 

You dont ****ing know me.

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I dont think Jay is arrogant enough to believe coaching up is a real thing. Hes a smart guy. He knows a coaches job is to put the talent in position to excel, not plug potato salad into a cracking damn and call it plaster.

 

 

Really? I'll be frank, I think he undervalues the DL in general, and especially NT.

“He’ll make a nose guard,” Gruden said at the 2017 NFL Owners Meetings in Phoenix this week. “If you look at his track record, [and] you look at the nose guards [that] he’s had, none of them have been priority first-round draft choices. He’s made nose guards. He coaches that position extremely well, and I have faith that he’ll do that.” 

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Jim-Tomsula-Will-Find-The-Right-Nose-Tackle-For-Redskins/ea56f550-4aba-4635-ad69-f61eda53a546

[clskinsfan]

28 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Really? I'll be frank, I think he undervalues the DL in general, and especially NT.

“He’ll make a nose guard,” Gruden said at the 2017 NFL Owners Meetings in Phoenix this week. “If you look at his track record, [and] you look at the nose guards [that] he’s had, none of them have been priority first-round draft choices. He’s made nose guards. He coaches that position extremely well, and I have faith that he’ll do that.” 

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Jim-Tomsula-Will-Find-The-Right-Nose-Tackle-For-Redskins/ea56f550-4aba-4635-ad69-f61eda53a546

 

And Gruden is right. Ask 49er fans what they think about losing Tomsula:

 

"Tomsula took over the Niner’s d-line in 2007. In the eight seasons in which he was in charge of the position group, the 49ers ranked fourth in the NFL in rushing yards allowed per game (98.4), second in yards per attempt (3.72) and third in points allowed (19.4). In 2011, the unit set an NFL record by not allowing a rushing touchdown in their first 14 games, and only gave up three the entire season."

 

"DE Justin Smith made five Pro Bowls and was selected to three All-Pro teams in his seven seasons with San Francisco. He never received either accolade in the seven seasons prior to working with Tomsula. Linemen like NT Aubrayo Franklin, NT Isaac Sopoaga, and DE Ricky Jean-Francois made an impact with the 49ers, but were bascially invisible after leaving the team. NT Glenn Dorsey, who was selected fifth overall in the 2008 draft, was seen as a disappointment in his first five years with the Kansas City Chiefs. Under Tomsula, he flourished as a nose tackle with the Niners until injuries took him off the field."

 

"Tomsula’s also worked wonders with undrafted players like NT Ian Williams, who was turning into force in the middle last year before getting injured. Even undrafted role players like DE Demarcus Dobbs and Tony Jerod-Eddie stepped up admirably when called upon. Late round draft picks? He’s helped them too, as DE Ray McDonald (3rd round) was a stalwart opposite Smith from 2011-2014, and DE Quinton Dial (5th round) has turned into a valuable asset (he’s currently the second highest rated d-lineman on the team per Pro Football Focus at 75.8)."

 

"If you didn’t appreciate Tomsula from 2007-2014, you’re probably starting to miss him now. After years of stout defense up front, the 49ers are abysmal this season, and the line is pushed around with regularity. Under DC Jim O’Neil and defensive line coach Jerry Azzinaro, San Francisco ranks last in rushing yards allowed (2032), yards per carry (4.9) and have allowed nine 100-yard rushers this season. "

 

https://ninerfans.com/as-a-position-coach-the-49ers-really-miss-jim-tomsula/

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

I love the Tomsula pick-up, but it's hard to quantify how much of the 49ers success against the run came from Tomsula's DL versus how much came from the studliest LB group in the league with some combination of the following throughout his tenure there: Takeo Spikes, Patrick Willis, Ahmad Brooks, Aldon Smith, Navarro Bowman, and Chris Borland.

[Morneblade]

57 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

And Gruden is right. Ask 49er fans what they think about losing Tomsula:

 

"Tomsula took over the Niner’s d-line in 2007. In the eight seasons in which he was in charge of the position group, the 49ers ranked fourth in the NFL in rushing yards allowed per game (98.4), second in yards per attempt (3.72) and third in points allowed (19.4). In 2011, the unit set an NFL record by not allowing a rushing touchdown in their first 14 games, and only gave up three the entire season."

 

"DE Justin Smith made five Pro Bowls and was selected to three All-Pro teams in his seven seasons with San Francisco. He never received either accolade in the seven seasons prior to working with Tomsula. Linemen like NT Aubrayo Franklin, NT Isaac Sopoaga, and DE Ricky Jean-Francois made an impact with the 49ers, but were bascially invisible after leaving the team. NT Glenn Dorsey, who was selected fifth overall in the 2008 draft, was seen as a disappointment in his first five years with the Kansas City Chiefs. Under Tomsula, he flourished as a nose tackle with the Niners until injuries took him off the field."

 

"Tomsula’s also worked wonders with undrafted players like NT Ian Williams, who was turning into force in the middle last year before getting injured. Even undrafted role players like DE Demarcus Dobbs and Tony Jerod-Eddie stepped up admirably when called upon. Late round draft picks? He’s helped them too, as DE Ray McDonald (3rd round) was a stalwart opposite Smith from 2011-2014, and DE Quinton Dial (5th round) has turned into a valuable asset (he’s currently the second highest rated d-lineman on the team per Pro Football Focus at 75.8)."

 

"If you didn’t appreciate Tomsula from 2007-2014, you’re probably starting to miss him now. After years of stout defense up front, the 49ers are abysmal this season, and the line is pushed around with regularity. Under DC Jim O’Neil and defensive line coach Jerry Azzinaro, San Francisco ranks last in rushing yards allowed (2032), yards per carry (4.9) and have allowed nine 100-yard rushers this season. "

 

https://ninerfans.com/as-a-position-coach-the-49ers-really-miss-jim-tomsula/

 

 

 

I have a BETTER idea. Instead of giving him garbage, give him some talent. So, you know, we can have a REALLY good DL.

You know, like we do Callahan? Or does that make too much sense?

[moondog]

10 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

What? Swearinger had 2 penalties in 16 games last year and his ONLY personal foul was a facemask????

 

http://www.nflpenalties.com/player/d-swearinger-arizona-cardinals?year=2016

Just saying, we've played him several times since he's been in the league with the Texans/Cardinals and he is obnoxious and constantly recognizable on the field talking ****, in people's faces after the play, etc. and I've rarely seen his play back it up. Credit where it's due for looking up the numbers, I'm speaking purely my opinion from the several times I've seen him play against us and a few other teams. 

 

Will gladly eat crow if he turns out to be a stud at free safety for us, but I don't see it happening. 

[Koolblue13]

16 minutes ago, moondog said:

Just saying, we've played him several times since he's been in the league with the Texans/Cardinals and he is obnoxious and constantly recognizable on the field talking ****, in people's faces after the play, etc. and I've rarely seen his play back it up. Credit where it's due for looking up the numbers, I'm speaking purely my opinion from the several times I've seen him play against us and a few other teams. 

 

Will gladly eat crow if he turns out to be a stud at free safety for us, but I don't see it happening. 

I don't see it happening either personally,  but all of these guys talk **** and showboat these days. Its why we celebrate guys who just go back to the huddle. Frustrating. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Hankins to the Colts for 30 mill. Giant loss.

[Master Blaster]

On 4/13/2017 at 2:50 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

IMO the cornerstone of a killer 3-4 defense:  fast linebackers who can move sideline to sideline and are good tacklers.  With Zach Brown we have at least one guy like that.  Also, a big D line especially NT who can clog lanes (stop the run) and keep guards, etc off of the speedy MLBs.  We don't have that yet, IMO.  And great pass rush off the edges -- on that we are ok IMO but nothing special.  Signing Hankins IMO would help fill a key gap easing off pressure on filling these needs in the draft.  But I agree its unlikely they sign Hankins. At this point IMO, the key for the draft is NT, one 5 technique type who can bring some pass rush and a speedy-wide 9 type pass rusher to give a different dimension from the edge compared to the power pass rushers we have now. 

 

Historically this is completely inaccurate.  The 5-2 style 3-4 was designed to force teams to try and run up the middle.  With the two OLB's it was difficult to get the edge, but in a stack 3-4 there is a 1:1 ratio of G/C/G to go against NT/ILB/ILB, meaning that was where the battles would be fought.  Now with the evolution of offenses this has obviously changed and you may be completely accurate.  Either way, the most important part of the 3-4 is the middle (NT/ILB/S), which is ironically exactly what the Redskins have ignored.

I'm not sure all the right pieces are there yet, but it's good to at least see the team trying to address the shortcomings in the most crucial areas. 

[Rex Tomb]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Hankins to the Colts for 30 mill. Giant loss.

 

At least he's out of the division now.

 

[Master Blaster]

12 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Really? I'll be frank, I think he undervalues the DL in general, and especially NT.

“He’ll make a nose guard,” Gruden said at the 2017 NFL Owners Meetings in Phoenix this week. “If you look at his track record, [and] you look at the nose guards [that] he’s had, none of them have been priority first-round draft choices. He’s made nose guards. He coaches that position extremely well, and I have faith that he’ll do that.” 

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Jim-Tomsula-Will-Find-The-Right-Nose-Tackle-For-Redskins/ea56f550-4aba-4635-ad69-f61eda53a546

 

 

You're right Jay should have said "We're screwed!  Nothing we can do.  Don't have any talent and our coaches suck.  Just go ahead and run on us everydown because we won't be able to stop the run."

[MEANDWARF]

It's official, Jets asking for a 4 for Richardson. IMO I would give no more than a 5.

 

According to the New York Post's Brian Costello, a fourth-round pick is "about as much" the Jets can hope for in exchange for DE Sheldon Richardson.

This jibes with what has been reported over the past couple weeks, especially since the Eagles acquired DT Timmy Jernigan from the Ravens by exchanging third-rounders. The Jets are fully expected to keep shopping Richardson on draft weekend, but a possible hangup may be Richardson only having one year left on his deal. He's said to be looking for a $100 million extension. (That's laughable considering his off-field past and bad 2016.) A fourth- or fifth-rounder may be all that's offered, and GM Mike Maccagnan will have to weigh whether it's enough.

 

 

[Kurd Cudins]

17 minutes ago, MEANDWARF said:

It's official, Jets asking for a 4 for Richardson. IMO I would give no more than a 5.

 

According to the New York Post's Brian Costello, a fourth-round pick is "about as much" the Jets can hope for in exchange for DE Sheldon Richardson.

This jibes with what has been reported over the past couple weeks, especially since the Eagles acquired DT Timmy Jernigan from the Ravens by exchanging third-rounders. The Jets are fully expected to keep shopping Richardson on draft weekend, but a possible hangup may be Richardson only having one year left on his deal. He's said to be looking for a $100 million extension. (That's laughable considering his off-field past and bad 2016.) A fourth- or fifth-rounder may be all that's offered, and GM Mike Maccagnan will have to weigh whether it's enough.

 

 

Please explain how you got, "It's official, they are asking for a fourth", from that excerpt. This is how stupidity gets perpetuated.

[Morneblade]

29 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

You're right Jay should have said "We're screwed!  Nothing we can do.  Don't have any talent and our coaches suck.  Just go ahead and run on us everydown because we won't be able to stop the run."

 

Are you being obtuse on purpose, or are you just really that dense? If it's the latter I'll try to explain it to you.

 

It's calling "investing". You go out, and you actively try and fix the big gaping hole that has been left there for 7 years. You might even invest multiple players at it, so you have a better chance of finding a good one.

 

The opposite of that, what we have been doing for years, is to "pick a guy". Someone that is not a NT and tell them "Hey, I know you've never played Nose, don't have any of the physical attributes to play it, but guess what? You're the guy. Go get 'em."

 

What Jay SHOULD have said is : "Yeah, it's a hole that we've had for some time, and it's hurt us. It hurts the whole defense. But we've got a great coach in Jim Tomsula, and we need to get him some pieces to work with. We have confidence if we get him some good pieces, he can make great things with them, he's excellent in maximizing peoples talent."

[Dark Acre]

14 hours ago, seantaylor=god said:

 

I think there is a pretty good chance Foster is there. ILBs tend to slip and I have read about negative issues surrounding him.  

1. He did poorly with teams on X's and O's; he has good instincts but there are questions about how quickly he will learn the defense and contribute. (I don't have a problem with this because we don't need him to start immediately, and he has a great history of contributing on ST at Alabama, so he will still contribute early.)

A guy who cannot start in the front 7 on this D should not be the #17 overall pick.

[MEANDWARF]

11 minutes ago, Lloyds' Mongolian Beef said:

Please explain how you got, "It's official, they are asking for a fourth", from that excerpt. This is how stupidity gets perpetuated.

Well dear sir, I have you know I strive on stupidity!!!! Plus I was bored.

I do better next time.......yeah right!

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

What Jay SHOULD have said is : "Yeah, it's a hole that we've had for some time, and it's hurt us. It hurts the whole defense. But we've got a great coach in Jim Tomsula, and we need to get him some pieces to work with. We have confidence if we get him some good pieces, he can make great things with them, he's excellent in maximizing peoples talent."

 

If the Skins do "invest" (a pick before the 6th round) in a NT in the draft (like all of us hope/pray) does it matter what he said at all?  Will those players play better if he had said what you wrote? I think we would all feel better if he had said what you wrote...but that's our problem and the team/Gruden shouldn't give two ****s about that. 

 

Maybe when the Skins 1st or 2nd pick in the 4th round comes up Gruden doesn't want other teams thinking he is desperate for a NT (and possibly getting jumped for a NT)...or maybe he isn't thinking past what's for lunch tomorrow...either is possible imo  

 

 

[elkabong82]

Usually not a fan of trading draft picks, but Skins should definitely trade for Richardson. However, if I'm them I'd float a 5th, and maybe a low conditional picks net year. I'm not sure I'd do a 4th since both ours are higher up in the 4th and Richardson's production dipped this past season.

[Morneblade]

21 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

If the Skins do "invest" (a pick before the 6th round) in a NT in the draft (like all of us hope/pray) does it matter what he said at all?  Will those players play better if he had said what you wrote? I think we would all feel better if he had said what you wrote...but that's our problem and the team/Gruden shouldn't give two ****s about that. 

 

Maybe when the Skins 1st or 2nd pick in the 4th round comes up Gruden doesn't want other teams thinking he is desperate for a NT (and possibly getting jumped for a NT)...or maybe he isn't thinking past what's for lunch tomorrow...either is possible imo  

 

 

 

Because no one else has figured out how bad the middle of the defense has been. Because, to date, no other NFL team has figured out that "gosh, the Redskins don't have a NT?! My goodness, we ALL though, Kedrick Golson  and Ziggy Hood were the prototypical NTs, why are they thinking about going a different direction?!"

 

Really?

 

Every other NFL team knows we have serious issues there. No one was shocked about getting Swearinger, moving Cravens to SS, or picking up Brown.

 

And we all know team throw smoke screens up about 4th round picks.

 

As for what he said, it goes stock and file at how the position has been addressed in the past. Does it matter if we take the best true NT what he said?

No.

 

Does it matter if we don't go after one at all in the draft, and use a UDFA to try to plug in as a starter?

Yes. Because not only has he shown you, he flat out TOLD you how little he thinks of the position. And that you cannot trust him to take care of the defense, and in the bigger picture he has shown you he does not know how to craft a winning football team.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

 

Historically this is completely inaccurate.  The 5-2 style 3-4 was designed to force teams to try and run up the middle.  With the two OLB's it was difficult to get the edge, but in a stack 3-4 there is a 1:1 ratio of G/C/G to go against NT/ILB/ILB, meaning that was where the battles would be fought.  Now with the evolution of offenses this has obviously changed and you may be completely accurate.  Either way, the most important part of the 3-4 is the middle (NT/ILB/S), which is ironically exactly what the Redskins have ignored.

I'm not sure all the right pieces are there yet, but it's good to at least see the team trying to address the shortcomings in the most crucial areas. 

 

Completely inaccurate?  That would mean - NT, pass rushing OLBs and speedy MLBs aren't cornerstones to successful 3-4s.  And your own explanation doubles down on my point about the importance of the NT.  So since you agree with me there, I assume you must be talking about a component of my point.

 

Only thing that maybe you are suggesting where I am completely off is the role of the outside LBs?    The outside linebackers you are saying are there to primarily hold the edge to push the opponent's running game up the middle?  Isn't that though the job of the DEs to help stop the run as for their primary duty as opposed to the outside linebackers.  Case in point, Manusky hyping up Mcclain and Mcgee's ability to stop the run.  They aren't per se about holding the edges but again about clogging lanes in particular if its a 2 gap 3-4 system.  

 

If the OLBs are primarily about stopping the run, than those days have long passed for the typical 3-4 from what I've observed.  A fast MLB can also help stop the run on the edges like Shazier.

 

Not saying the OLBs aren't there to stop the run too but their pass rusher ability tends to be hyped as the more important dynamic of the two.  Ideally, its also great to have OLBs who can do both.  

 

Edit:  there are nuances to this point -- 1 gap versus 2 gap system, no position is an all or nothing drill, the Mike versus Will LB, etc.  But my point was simple -- most successful 3-4 defenses from what I've observed have a good NT, has speedy MLBs (at least one speed guy, the Will) and good pass rush off the edges. 

 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

As for what he said, it goes stock and file at how the position has been addressed in the past. Does it matter if we take the best true NT what he said?

No.

 

Does it matter if we don't go after one at all in the draft, and use a UDFA to try to plug in as a starter?

Yes. Because not only has he shown you, he flat out TOLD you how little he thinks of the position. And that you cannot trust him to take care of the defense, and in the bigger picture he has shown you he does not know how to craft a winning football team.

 

So, like I said... "If the Skins do "invest" (a pick before the 6th round) in a NT in the draft (like all of us hope/pray) does it matter what he said at all?  Will those players play better if he had said what you wrote?"  The answer is no.

 

I didn't talk about... "Does it matter if we don't go after one at all in the draft, and use a UDFA to try to plug in as a starter?"... because it is obvious we would all be concerned. 

 

Don't put me in the category of people who think the DL (especially the NT) is fine just because I disagree with how you view something Gruden said in a PC. I don't even think those people actually exist. 

 

 

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

So, like I said... "If the Skins do "invest" (a pick before the 6th round) in a NT in the draft (like all of us hope/pray) does it matter what he said at all?  Will those players play better if he had said what you wrote?"  The answer is no.

 

I didn't talk about... "Does it matter if we don't go after one at all in the draft, and use a UDFA to try to plug in as a starter?"... because it is obvious we would all be concerned. 

 

Don't put me in the category of people who think the DL (especially the NT) is fine just because I disagree with how you view something Gruden said in a PC. I don't even think those people actually exist. 

 

 

 

Except for the fact that we've done next to nothing to fix the position, what he said actually confirms what he's done. We don't need talent there. "Coach 'em up".