The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

Except for the fact that we've done next to nothing to fix the position, what he said actually confirms what he's done. We don't need talent there. "Coach 'em up".

 

 

And like I'm getting at "I'll be more worried about what he said if the actually comes true".  

 

I prefer to wait to get worked up when things, I have no control over, actually happen.  

 

Don't worry though...I'll be right with you if the plan is Phil Taylor and A.J. Francis at NT. <-- thanks for making me puke a little in my mouth.

[Morneblade]

10 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

And like I'm getting at "I'll be more worried about what he said if the actually comes true".  

 

I prefer to wait to get worked up when things, I have no control over, actually happen.  

 

Don't worry though...I'll be right with you if the plan is Phil Taylor and A.J. Francis at NT. <-- thanks for making me puke a little in my mouth.

 

Those that ignore history....

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

18 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Those that ignore history....

 

So Jay is the reason for the crappy DL?  Only Jay?  Not GMSM? Not Bruce? Not Shanny? Not Gibbs (2 DL drafted in 4yrs - Montgomry & Golston)?

 

FYI, since Allen has been here he has drafted 3 D-linemen: Jenkins (2nd rd 2011), Neild (7th rd 2011) & Ioannidis (5th rd 2016).

 

I think maybe your angst should be directed toward Allen more so than Jay...but after this draft it'll be more on Jay since he might have more power in this draft.

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

So Jay is the reason for the crappy DL?  Only Jay?  Not GMSM? Not Bruce? Not Shanny? Not Gibbs (2 DL drafted in 4yrs - Montgomry & Golston)?

 

FYI, since Allen has been here he has drafted 3 D-linemen: Jenkins (2nd rd 2011), Neild (7th rd 2011) & Ioannidis (5th rd 2016).

 

I think maybe your angst should be directed toward Allen more so than Jay...but after this draft it'll be more on Jay since he might have more power in this draft.

 

Valid points. But Jay has said he has had influence in the draft, and is now saying what he said about NT. And you're not concerned yet?

 

As for Gibbs, he didn't draft them, but he went after them hard in FA. Not just bottom dwellers either, like we have had in the last several seasons.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

Valid points. But Jay has said he has had influence in the draft, and is now saying what he said about NT. And you're not concerned yet?

 

As for Gibbs, he didn't draft them, but he went after them hard in FA. Not just bottom dwellers either, like we have had in the last several seasons.

 

Yeah Gibbs did get FA and the DL wasn't a problem then. 

 

Yes, I'm concerned the Skins will have Taylor/Francis/Hood fighting it out at NT...but it's still April.  We still have the draft (my hopes) or potentially a surprise cut (not what I'd like to bank on) to get the NT position addressed properly.  

 

And we can't do anything about it anyway man...just enjoy the abuse we subject ourselves to dude!

[Morneblade]

22 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

Yeah Gibbs did get FA and the DL wasn't a problem then. 

 

Yes, I'm concerned the Skins will have Taylor/Francis/Hood fighting it out at NT...but it's still April.  We still have the draft (my hopes) or potentially a surprise cut (not what I'd like to bank on) to get the NT position addressed properly.  

 

And we can't do anything about it anyway man...just enjoy the abuse we subject ourselves to dude!

 

I know, I'm hoping for that too. But Gruden's words really concerned me. It's like he's banking on just giving Tomsula nothing, but expects him to work magic with it. And on the other side of the table, Callahan has nothing worse than a 3rd round pick, and two top 5 picks.

 

Gruden at times reminds me of a kid in a candy story, with no adult supervision. He sees shiny cool offensive toys and gets carried away with them.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

Gruden at times reminds me of a kid in a candy story, with no adult supervision. He sees shiny cool offensive toys and gets carried away with them.

 

I agree.  When Gruden was hired my wife (Packers fan) asked me what I thought of him...I said "I think he is kind of a doofus"...for lack of a better description.  I thought the same thing after his first season as well.  He has grown on my since then. Now, I think he is pretty competent as a HC but his Redskins football demise will be his own doing.  I wish he had a little more Gibbs/Parcells sternness to him.  I'm worried his laid back attitude is going to bite him in the ass one of these days.

[PartyPosse]

4 hours ago, MEANDWARF said:

It's official, Jets asking for a 4 for Richardson. IMO I would give no more than a 5.

 

According to the New York Post's Brian Costello, a fourth-round pick is "about as much" the Jets can hope for in exchange for DE Sheldon Richardson.

This jibes with what has been reported over the past couple weeks, especially since the Eagles acquired DT Timmy Jernigan from the Ravens by exchanging third-rounders. The Jets are fully expected to keep shopping Richardson on draft weekend, but a possible hangup may be Richardson only having one year left on his deal. He's said to be looking for a $100 million extension. (That's laughable considering his off-field past and bad 2016.) A fourth- or fifth-rounder may be all that's offered, and GM Mike Maccagnan will have to weigh whether it's enough.

 

 

At the risk of only having him one year he is absolutely worth a 5th round pick considering if he has a big year and signs elsewhere we would probably be entitled to a comp pick no worse than what we paid.

[carex]

12 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I know, I'm hoping for that too. But Gruden's words really concerned me. It's like he's banking on just giving Tomsula nothing, but expects him to work magic with it. And on the other side of the table, Callahan has nothing worse than a 3rd round pick, and two top 5 picks.

 

Gruden at times reminds me of a kid in a candy story, with no adult supervision. He sees shiny cool offensive toys and gets carried away with them.

 

I think the point some of these comments and what Gruden's said is that these guys are not nothing when you compare them to what he had, and got production from in San Francisco

[dckey]

I know most may disagree with the NT position but I just did some research on Jim Tomsula as DL coach when he was with the 49ers from 2007-2014.  Which I think is where Jay Gruden may have history with his comments of Jim will find a NT.  Tomsula never really put stock into the NT position, but he had stud DE's on the line as well, but here are the starting NT for Tomsula over that period

 

2007-2010 Aubrayo Franklin(5th Rnd pick 146) 112Tackles 4.5 Sacks in 4 years

2010-2012 Isaac Sopoaga (4th Rnd pick 104) 41 Tackles 1 Sack in 2 years

2013 Glen Dorsey (1st Rnd Pick 5) 30 tackles 2 sacks in 1 year

2014 Ian WIlliams (Undrafted) 18 Tackles 1 Sack in 9 games

2014 Quinton Dial (Rnd 5 Pick 157) 21 Tackles 2 Sacks in 6 games

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

I think the point some of these comments and what Gruden's said is that these guys are not nothing when you compare them to what he had, and got production from in San Francisco

 

Actually, what we have is nothing. The fact that Gruden is fine with nothing, and relying on Tomsula to make "something" out of it is irresponsible. Give the man something to work with. We give Callahan a ton of talent to work with, why should we give Tomsula nothing?

 

1 hour ago, dckey said:

I know most may disagree with the NT position but I just did some research on Jim Tomsula as DL coach when he was with the 49ers from 2007-2014.  Which I think is where Jay Gruden may have history with his comments of Jim will find a NT.  Tomsula never really put stock into the NT position, but he had stud DE's on the line as well, but here are the starting NT for Tomsula over that period

 

2007-2010 Aubrayo Franklin(5th Rnd pick 146) 112Tackles 4.5 Sacks in 4 years

2010-2012 Isaac Sopoaga (4th Rnd pick 104) 41 Tackles 1 Sack in 2 years

2013 Glen Dorsey (1st Rnd Pick 5) 30 tackles 2 sacks in 1 year

2014 Ian WIlliams (Undrafted) 18 Tackles 1 Sack in 9 games

2014 Quinton Dial (Rnd 5 Pick 157) 21 Tackles 2 Sacks in 6 games

 

 Really? You've spoken to him about this?

 

You might be more accurate in point out that the HC, or DC didn't care much, but I also notice a 1st round pick in there. In fact, a top 5 pick in there. I'll also point out that, if these are all 49er picks, you have 4 picks in 7 years.

 

Can you guess the last time we drafted a NT?

[carex]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

Actually, what we have is nothing. The fact that Gruden is fine with nothing, and relying on Tomsula to make "something" out of it is irresponsible. Give the man something to work with. We give Callahan a ton of talent to work with, why should we give Tomsula nothing?

 

 

 Really? You've spoken to him about this?

 

You might be more accurate in point out that the HC, or DC didn't care much, but I also notice a 1st round pick in there. In fact, a top 5 pick in there. I'll also point out that, if these are all 49er picks, you have 4 picks in 7 years.

 

Can you guess the last time we drafted a NT?

 

that first round draft pick wasn't for the 9ers, he was drafted by the Chiefs and a bit of a bust until he played under Tomsula

[dckey]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 Really? You've spoken to him about this?

 

You might be more accurate in point out that the HC, or DC didn't care much, but I also notice a 1st round pick in there. In fact, a top 5 pick in there. I'll also point out that, if these are all 49er picks, you have 4 picks in 7 years.

 

Can you guess the last time we drafted a NT?

Dorsey was drafted by Kansas City and signed to SF after being released because he did not live up to his draft status.  Franklin was drafted by the Ravens and released, Only drafted players by SF were Sapoaga and Dial.  Sapoaga was the DE before converting to NT.  All I am saying is his talent was not that good

[Peregrine]

If we dont have a real NT this year, then yes, it is 100% Jay's fault.  Keeping in mind that he claimed he was involved in all of the past personel decisions, as they were "group decisions", and now that SM is gone he has even more say, and that he specifically said he hired Manusky because Manusky said the players we currently had were fine, and said that we dont need to go out and get a 1st round NT because Tomsula will make someone into one, then yes, it will be 100% Jay's fault.

 

Theres only so many times a person can make it perfectly clear they dont think they need to get one, before you have to take them at his word.  For his sake, it had better pan out.  There were some very bold moves made this offseason that will work out well or poorly, and effect key jobs.

[Morneblade]

22 minutes ago, carex said:

 

that first round draft pick wasn't for the 9ers, he was drafted by the Chiefs and a bit of a bust until he played under Tomsula

 

Which was why I said "if these were all 49er picks" because I did not bother to look.

23 minutes ago, dckey said:

Dorsey was drafted by Kansas City and signed to SF after being released because he did not live up to his draft status.  Franklin was drafted by the Ravens and released, Only drafted players by SF were Sapoaga and Dial.  Sapoaga was the DE before converting to NT.  All I am saying is his talent was not that good

 

Might not have been, but that isn't really the point I'm making. The point I'm making, is rather than give someone that is really good at his job, garbage, and expect him to make something passable, give him some talent. Give the man something to work with, and maybe he can make it GREAT. Make it the strength of the defense, and watch how much better the entire defense gets.

 

 

[dckey]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

Which was why I said "if these were all 49er picks" because I did not bother to look.

 

Might not have been, but that isn't really the point I'm making. The point I'm making, is rather than give someone that is really good at his job, garbage, and expect him to make something passable, give him some talent. Give the man something to work with, and maybe he can make it GREAT. Make it the strength of the defense, and watch how much better the entire defense gets.

 

 

I understand your point and I am not trying to debate with you, we've been through this before LOL!!!  All I am saying is maybe Tomsula doesn't value the NT position as much as you do (I don't know) but his history with the comments made about the talent they have already on the team and what he got while at SF seems that way.  He really emphasized the DE on his line, he got great production from them.

[WelshSkinsFan]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Which was why I said "if these were all 49er picks" because I did not bother to look.

 

Might not have been, but that isn't really the point I'm making. The point I'm making, is rather than give someone that is really good at his job, garbage, and expect him to make something passable, give him some talent. Give the man something to work with, and maybe he can make it GREAT. Make it the strength of the defense, and watch how much better the entire defense gets.

 

 

 

Ok but at this point what exactly do you want the team to do, not being argumentative but just curious?  I want a true NT but we could not address the position in FA as there were only 3 guys out there and they chose other options or in the case of Hankins got lucky and found a team willing to overpay.  I think we all agree the draft does not include a dominant NT and honestly it is not a position that tends to be a feature in the first couple of rounds due to not being an every down position.

 

Speaking personally if we go heavy on defense in this draft and that includes one of the better NT prospects in the 3rd or 4th round I will accept the team has done what it can to address the position this time around.  What would you consider acceptable at this point?

[dckey]

The whole time Tomsula was at SF they drafted 3 DT (only RJF started NT), but 8 DE.  I would think he had some input into his DL

[TheShredder]

7 hours ago, Morneblade said:

The opposite of that, what we have been doing for years, is to "pick a guy". Someone that is not a NT and tell them "Hey, I know you've never played Nose, don't have any of the physical attributes to play it, but guess what? You're the guy. Go get 'em."

 

Yeah, that's like taking an awesome college first baseman and putting him in center-field. You've got a opening in the middle with a good coach, but if they try to pound a triangle through the circle hole they'll quickly find out how frustrating of a mistake that is.

[Master Blaster]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Completely inaccurate?  That would mean - NT, pass rushing OLBs and speedy MLBs aren't cornerstones to successful 3-4s.  And your own explanation doubles down on my point about the importance of the NT.  So since you agree with me there, I assume you must be talking about a component of my point.

 

 

 

 

I agree with you. Was just saying it's not accurate historically. Levon Kirkland wouldn't be an ILB today, nor would Teddy Bruschi.

 

The pluggers at ILB aren't needed, and that may be causing some of the run stopping issues. 

 

[Stadium-Armory]

8 hours ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

I agree.  When Gruden was hired my wife (Packers fan) asked me what I thought of him...I said "I think he is kind of a doofus"...for lack of a better description.  I thought the same thing after his first season as well.  He has grown on my since then. Now, I think he is pretty competent as a HC but his Redskins football demise will be his own doing.  I wish he had a little more Gibbs/Parcells sternness to him.  I'm worried his laid back attitude is going to bite him in the ass one of these days.

 

I've met him and he's a pretty serious guy. He seems laid back at first glance, but in-person you can tell he is intense. Not a push over.

[Skinsinparadise]

I put this in the draft thread but seems to fit here too based on recent discussion

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30929/redskins-hope-jim-tomsulas-coaching-helps-solve-problem-at-nose-tackle

 

“Coach Tomsula has assured me that he will find a nose guard,” Redskins coach Jay Gruden said last month at the owners meetings, “[and] he’ll make a nose guard. If you look at his track record, you look at the nose guards he’s had, none of them have been priority first-round draft choices. He’s made nose guards. He coaches that position extremely well, and I have faith that he’ll do that.”

 

Indeed, Tomsula used four different players at nose tackle during his time in San Francisco: Aubrayo Franklin, Isaac Sopoaga, Glenn Dorsey and Ian Williams. Of this group, Franklin and Sopoaga were fifth-round and fourth-round picks, respectively; Williams was undrafted. Dorsey was a first-round pick, but with Kansas City, and was signed to be a backup. He became a starter when Williams got hurt.

The overall point, though, is that when Tomsula coached the 49ers’ line, they did not invest heavily in a nose tackle. They received solid play from the position, however, and during all of his eight seasons as the line coach, the 49ers ranked in the top 10 in yards per carry allowed. They ranked among the top five on four occasions.

 

Of course, the 49ers also had strong defenders surrounding the nose tackle – end Justin Smith and inside linebackers Patrick Willis among them -- to make sure they stopped the run and defended well overall. Without elite players elsewhere, the hole at nose tackle sticks out.

But the Redskins’ defense the last few years struggled vs. the run as much out of their nickel package -- when they don’t use a pure nose tackle -- as when they were in their base front. The Redskins' big search has been to find players who can have an impact on the pass game as much as anything. Or those who can play three downs. Using a high pick just to find a nose tackle? That seems unlikely, given Gruden's comment.

Still, it would help their defense quite a bit to plug this hole.

 

Several defenders last season -- including some on the line -- mentioned a handful of times how the lack of a true nose hurt the defense. They needed someone to command double-teams. The quest remains to find that player.

[Koolblue13]

Theres a few Noses around 3/4 and I expect us to draft one. If not, then I'll panic.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Theres a few Noses around 3/4 and I expect us to draft one. If not, then I'll panic.

 

yeah I agree.  Tomlinson, Qualls, Vanderdoes, M. Adams.  3rd-4th round seems to be the sweet spot.  I am all on board with the Tomsula makes lemonade out of lemons drill but I'd much rather give him some real talent.  SF had arguably the best tandem MLBs in the league during part of Tomsula's stint.  I think you can get away perhaps with ok talent at certain positions when big talent surrounds them.  But we can use upgrades in every part of the front 7.

[Koolblue13]

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

yeah I agree.  Tomlinson, Qualls, Vanderdoes, M. Adams.  3rd-4th round seems to be the sweet spot.  I am all on board with the Tomsula makes lemonade out of lemons drill but I'd much rather give him some real talent.  SF had arguably the best tandem MLBs in the league during part of Tomsula's stint.  I think you can get away perhaps with ok talent at certain positions when big talent surrounds them.  But we can use upgrades in every part of the front 7.

If your lemons suck, your lemonaids gonna suck.

 

We don't have any lemons. We've got two old busted trees that don't produce fruit anymore. We absolutely have to hit the market.

 

We have 3 picks, in the perfect position to grab at least one of the NTs in the 4rth.

 

I'd reach with our 3rd for one too. Id also take two.

If our draft went McDowell, Wormley, Adams, Qualls I wouldn't be mad at all.