The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Est.1974]

Kerrigan fits being mid 260s as an OLB in the 3-4. Can't see him being effective as a 290 DE to the same degree. Not average 10 sacks per season effective anyway.

[Morneblade]

Just now, goskins10 said:

 

Ryan lost a little weight to play OLB. He was 274 for his pro-day. I am sure he could bulk up if needed. Murphy has played DE already. Yes he will miss 4 games. But so what? He is still on the team. Gallette is the biggest ? But that's 3 without including the draft.

 

If they want to do it they could fairly easily. Not sure they will. But it could be done.

 

I seriously doubt they will, although Manusky has played in it, and coached it. But he is on record for going with a 3-4.

 

I'd also like to clarify, we would be thin at DE, but not destitude. I think we could do it. Hood could even pop out there and play LDE in a pinch. RDE would still be thin, but there are several RDE's in the draft that would help for depth. We might have some depth issues, but I think we could cover those in 1 offseason.

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Kerrigan fits being mid 260s as an OLB in the 3-4. Can't see him being effective as a 290 DE to the same degree. Not average 10 sacks per season effective anyway.

 

290 might be too much, but 280 would be much easier for him. And instead of needing to worry about being in coverage too, he can just bulk up and get a little stronger. I think he would be fine.

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

290 might be too much, but 280 would be much easier for him. And instead of needing to worry about being in coverage too, he can just bulk up and get a little stronger. I think he would be fine.

 

I think more weight would make him slower and less effective as a pass rusher. Not that it matters now.

 

But there are no facts to suggest he would have been more effective in a 4-3 over the last 6 seasons.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I think more weight would make him slower and less effective as a pass rusher. Not that it matters now.

 

But there are no facts to suggest he would have been more effective in a 4-3 over the last 6 seasons.

 

There are no facts to suggest he would not be. He was a better DE in college than he has been in a OLB in the pros. And he is not good in space.

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

There are no facts to suggest he would not be. 

 

I agree. The comment was that it had been argued, probably rightly so, that he would have been more effective in the 4-3. There is nothing to support that either way.

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I agree. The comment was that it had been argued, probably rightly so, that he would have been more effective in the 4-3. There is nothing to support that either way.

 

Probably because he was a 4-3 coming out of college. And he also lines up as one in our nickle package. But because he is a OLB in our base 3-4, he can't add weight, and he gets moved around a lot when trying to set the edge.

 

At the end of the day, we're just talking. Manusky is not going to change us out of a 3-4. We're still stuck with it for awhile.

[skinny21]

6 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

I'm not, there are several people here that are just as adamant, but maybe not as vocal. The biggest issues with NT is that we ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE ONE. Let's forget talent for a second. We have Phil Taylor, and his 2 year vacation for football because of bad knees. That's about it. If you are going to run a 3-4, you need a NT. It's that simple. I agree that we need more talent on the DL and I have been pushing very hard for that as well.

 

 

We don't need a 350 pound guy in there, but we DO need a guy that cannot get blown off the LOS. We're likely going to be a 1 gap system, so if he's 320 and has some quickness, that's great, but he's STILL going to need to be able to anchor too. We have not had that, and have been gashed. None of the guys you mentioned I have any faith in to be effective as a NT.

So, in 2015 I think our line did a pretty good job of disrupting the qb.  Unfortunately, Hatcher struggled against the run, as did our ILBs and safeties.  

Don't blame you on not having faith in our current NT options.  I think McGee can anchor well, even against double teams, so maybe he can be in the rotation for PT there.  I think Ioannidas and Hood could occasionally man the spot, but it's hard to expect much out of them.  

Essentially, I think one of the above, with McClain and a Lanier/a draft pick at the end spots could improve our run D while also giving a bit of push up the middle.  Less pass rush than 2015, but (somewhat?) better run D.  Galette, Murphy, Smith and a draft pick should give us a better outside rush than we had two years ago.  Better, and more aggressive (blitzes from our) ILBs should help the pass rush too... and I have to imagine our ILBs and safeties will be better vs the run than their 2015 counterparts.  

 

All in all, I hope we draft a nose, but I think there's a chance that we can cobble together a fairly balanced, decent defense (particularly if we add a couple/few contributors from the draft).  

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By the way, Wade Phillips said the NT was the 2nd most important part position in football. In front of LT. And it seems everyone just thinks you can throw junk at the position and expect results. So, if you wonder why I tend to be vocal about it, that part of the reason why.

Don't blame you.  Really, my point is that I think we can (and may) see a much improved defense even if we don't land a viable starter at NT... not that we shouldn't sweat the position at all.  

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I know what Manusky runs, he's going to prefer a attacking 1 gap scheme. Although at this point I wish we would just scrap the 3-4 and run a 4-3. The big issue was how soft the middle of the defense was. No push. Can't stop the run, can push the pocket. And to be frank, I don't care who the CB's are, if you don't get pressure, they are going to get burned.

Yeah, I can certainly understand the argument that if we can't/don't address NT, a defensive switch might be the best option.  I will say that we didn't have much of a NT in 2015, but still managed a solid pass rush.  The fact that we had fairly poor corners and still managed some solid showings says a lot.  Replicating that pass rush while improving our dbs could go a long way.  Solid run Defenders on the line, coupled with better tackling and run fits from the backers and safeties ought to help limit teams running all over us.  

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We've added Brown, who I like, and not much else in the middle. We might have taken a step back on the DL, and still no NT. Not looking good so far as far as the "spine" of the team.

Agree about the dline.  Still surprised they opted to let Baker walk.  I think Swearinger and Cravens have some potential at safety.  Certainly more than we had with Hall/Goldson/Robinson/Bruton/Blackmon/Johnson/Whitner.  I'm far from sold on them, but they offer better athleticism and pretty solid tackling.  

[Morneblade]

34 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

So, in 2015 I think our line did a pretty good job of disrupting the qb.  Unfortunately, Hatcher struggled against the run, as did our ILBs and safeties.  

Don't blame you on not having faith in our current NT options.  I think McGee can anchor well, even against double teams, so maybe he can be in the rotation for PT there.  I think Ioannidas and Hood could occasionally man the spot, but it's hard to expect much out of them.  

 

None of these guys can play NT. McGee is a DE. Hood is a DE. Ioannidas is a DE at this point. These are not NT options. They are bad excuses.

 

34 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Essentially, I think one of the above, with McClain and a Lanier/a draft pick at the end spots could improve our run D while also giving a bit of push up the middle.  Less pass rush than 2015, but (somewhat?) better run D.  Galette, Murphy, Smith and a draft pick should give us a better outside rush than we had two years ago.  Better, and more aggressive (blitzes from our) ILBs should help the pass rush too... and I have to imagine our ILBs and safeties will be better vs the run than their 2015 counterparts.  

 

Baker was better than any of these guys, and you think it's going to be better? Sorry, I don't share your optimism. So far the DL has taken a step backward.

No idea what we will get from Smith, no idea if Galette will even see the field, at least Kerrigan is consistent. But right now, we have exactly the same thing as last year. Except a Trent Murphy on PEDs.

 

The only improvement so far has been Zach Brown. And he is best when he can run, and not have to fight through people. And maybe no Will Compton.

 

34 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

All in all, I hope we draft a nose, but I think there's a chance that we can cobble together a fairly balanced, decent defense (particularly if we add a couple/few contributors from the draft).  

 

Not with this mess. We need a lot of help. And if your hoping for everything to fall just right in the draft, it's likely we'll be in big trouble.

 

34 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Don't blame you.  Really, my point is that I think we can (and may) see a much improved defense even if we don't land a viable starter at NT... not that we shouldn't sweat the position at all.  

 

Very doubtful. I expect more of the same. 4.8 yards per rush in 2015, 4.5 last year. It's painfully obvious how much you don't value it.

 

34 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I can certainly understand the argument that if we can't/don't address NT, a defensive switch might be the best option.  I will say that we didn't have much of a NT in 2015, but still managed a solid pass rush.  The fact that we had fairly poor corners and still managed some solid showings says a lot.  Replicating that pass rush while improving our dbs could go a long way.  Solid run Defenders on the line, coupled with better tackling and run fits from the backers and safeties ought to help limit teams running all over us.  

 

You don't get it. You think, you do, but you don't. Here it is from a different point of view. It's like me saying, "we don't need a good QB, we just need a couple good WR's and the passing game will be fine"

 

If you don't have a NT, you don't stop the run in a 3-4. But all you want to talk about is passing, which takes a even more gifted NT to not have to be on the field for. But, you have to stop the run to put people in a must pass situation, and then you can tee off. Hard to do that one 3rd and 1.

 

34 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Agree about the dline.  Still surprised they opted to let Baker walk.  I think Swearinger and Cravens have some potential at safety.  Certainly more than we had with Hall/Goldson/Robinson/Bruton/Blackmon/Johnson/Whitner.  I'm far from sold on them, but they offer better athleticism and pretty solid tackling.  

 

That's great, 8 yards from the LoS. Not so great when it was 3rd and 1.

 

I get it. You completely undervalue a NT in a 3-4.

[Koolblue13]

Ratliff sucked against the run and Dallas had a good D because of their LBs.

 

I agree we need a nose to stuff the run, but its not everything. Wilfork stuffing Beast Mode to winthe SB. Yes I get it.

 

Why even pretend we're going back to a 43. The 34 is the top D in the league because of speed. Everything is fast. An extra LB on the field adds speed.

 

Hood, RJF, whoever, sucked. Compton sucks. Don't know how it'll be next year. Baker was the only lineman who could get after a QB and hes gone. 

[TSO]

Yeah, I just want an impact Dlineman, period. Could be a 1 tech, 3 tech, 5 tech or anything in between. Preferably can play at all spots. 

 

Just one impact guy who can win one on one consistently, forcing teams to double team him and can even win those at times. 

 

Just one of those type of guys will do wonders for us in both the run game and passing game. 

 

I don't care if he comes in the shape of a traditional fat ass NT or a lean super-athletic beast. Just give me one of those guys and preferably three. 

 

They change your entire defense more than any other position. They are the greatest mask of any and all other deficiencies. 

[HTTRDynasty]

20 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Yeah, I just want an impact Dlineman, period. Could be a 1 tech, 3 tech, 5 tech or anything in between. Preferably can play at all spots. 

 

Just one impact guy who can win one on one consistently, forcing teams to double team him and can even win those at times. 

 

Just one of those type of guys will do wonders for us in both the run game and passing game. 

 

I don't care if he comes in the shape of a traditional fat ass NT or a lean super-athletic beast. Just give me one of those guys and preferably three. 

 

They change your entire defense more than any other position. They are the greatest mask of any and all other deficiencies. 

 

Yeah, with the additions to safety and ILB we made this offseason, a true game-changer on the DL in both the running game and the passing game could quite possibly turn this into a top half of the league defense, which would obviously be a huge improvement. 

 

The lack of a stud like that on the DL or EDGE is likely the biggest factor in Wade Phillips turning us down.  The dude went from prime Demarcus Ware to JJ Watt to Von Miller to Aaron Donald.  Players like that will make any DC worth a damn look competent.  The only guys I see in this draft with the potential to be that sort of player are Myles Garrett and Malik McDowell.  We have no shot at Garrett...

[DC Lumber Co.]

I wonder what our plan is at backup center? Its a pretty obvious need that doesn't get discussed much.

 

are there any swing guards/centers still on the market in the same class as sullivan was? Or maybe we wait to see who shakes loose from training camp roster cuts. Or do we view someone in-house as an option?

 

 

 

 

[skinny21]

10 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

None of these guys can play NT. McGee is a DE. Hood is a DE. Ioannidas is a DE at this point. These are not NT options. They are bad excuses.

So, you don't buy scouts take that McGee is good at not getting moved off the line? That Ioannidas can't improve off last year's performance?

10 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Baker was better than any of these guys, and you think it's going to be better? Sorry, I don't share your optimism. So far the DL has taken a step backward.

No idea what we will get from Smith, no idea if Galette will even see the field, at least Kerrigan is consistent. But right now, we have exactly the same thing as last year. Except a Trent Murphy on PEDs.

1) Yes, Baker was our best lineman

2) our line could overall be worse, but could certainly improve vs the run

3) I was comparing our OLBs to 2015 - when Galette was injured, and Murphy and Smith were still learning.  I'm hopeful we can get a (at least) situational pass rusher.  

10 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

The only improvement so far has been Zach Brown. And he is best when he can run, and not have to fight through people. And maybe no Will Compton.

You liked the tandem of Whitner/Blackmon over Swearinger/Cravens?  Hmm... I hope you're wrong.  

10 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Not with this mess. We need a lot of help. And if your hoping for everything to fall just right in the draft, it's likely we'll be in big trouble.

Just right?  No.  Just hoping we can add a Dlineman, an edge rusher and maybe an ILB/corner.  

10 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Very doubtful. I expect more of the same. 4.8 yards per rush in 2015, 4.5 last year. It's painfully obvious how much you don't value it.

I absolutely value it, but like TSO said, I just want a lineman that can make a difference.  I'm hoping we get a NT, but I don't think we're necessarily screwed without one.  

10 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

You don't get it. You think, you do, but you don't. Here it is from a different point of view. It's like me saying, "we don't need a good QB, we just need a couple good WR's and the passing game will be fine"

Yes, yes I do.  No it's not not.  

10 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

If you don't have a NT, you don't stop the run in a 3-4. But all you want to talk about is passing, which takes a even more gifted NT to not have to be on the field for. But, you have to stop the run to put people in a must pass situation, and then you can tee off. Hard to do that one 3rd and 1.

 

 

That's great, 8 yards from the LoS. Not so great when it was 3rd and 1.

 

I get it. You completely undervalue a NT in a 3-4.

You didn't notice our historically bad showing on 3rd down, particularly our struggles on 3rd and long?  Weird.  My take is that although I don't expect us to be good against the run (if we don't add a nose), I think we can perform much better on longer 3rd downs, especially if our safeties, ILBs and OLBs are improved.  Add some competition to the slot corner and hopefully an impact Dlineman and I'll feel even more strongly about this.  Surprised you can't see that.  ?

[Morneblade]

29 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

So, you don't buy scouts take that McGee is good at not getting moved off the line? That Ioannidas can't improve off last year's performance?

 

Are those guys going to play NT?

No

Besides, Matt has a LONG way to go, and McGee has been a injury prone player that kinda played good one year. I am far from sold from either one.

 

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1) Yes, Baker was our best lineman

2) our line could overall be worse, but could certainly improve vs the run

3) I was comparing our OLBs to 2015 - when Galette was injured, and Murphy and Smith were still learning.  I'm hopeful we can get a (at least) situational pass rusher.  

 

Why, because you say so? Baker was a better run defender than anyone we have right now.

Not much has changed from 2015. Smith regressed, Galette was hurt again, and Murphy got popped for PEDs. yeah, we need OLB help. Not sure we'll get a guy that can be a impact player.

 

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You liked the tandem of Whitner/Blackmon over Swearinger/Cravens?  Hmm... I hope you're wrong.  

 

Was actually referring to the front 7, which much more important in stopping the run. I like the additions in the secondary, but there are still huge question marks there. No on has any idea if Cravens can play SS in the NFL. It's been awhile since he has played it at all. And I'm a bit worried about Swearingers aggressiveness. As a FS, you cant get caught up looking for a big hit. And he jumps routes. We'll have to see how he does.

 

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Just right?  No.  Just hoping we can add a Dlineman, an edge rusher and maybe an ILB/corner.  

I absolutely value it, but like TSO said, I just want a lineman that can make a difference.  I'm hoping we get a NT, but I don't think we're necessarily screwed without one.

 

 

Thanks for making my point.

 

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Yes, yes I do.  No it's not not.  

 

No, you don't. You have the gaul to sit here and tell me you "value" a position, then say we don't need it. YOU DON'T VALUE IT.

 

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You didn't notice our historically bad showing on 3rd down, particularly our struggles on 3rd and long?

 

 

As a matter of fact, I did. When you can't push the pocket, it's easy for a QB to step up. Or don't have a real pass rusher. Or both. Maybe you don't know my posting history on this. Or my extreme hatred for all things Barry, and NOT getting Philips when he was available. But there is plenty of it out there.

 

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My take is that although I don't expect us to be good against the run (if we don't add a nose), I think we can perform much better on longer 3rd downs, especially if our safeties, ILBs and OLBs are improved.  Add some competition to the slot corner and hopefully an impact Dlineman and I'll feel even more strongly about this.  Surprised you can't see that.  ?

 

Maybe. Or maybe we won't have to worry about that because we won't have that many 3rd and longs because it's 3rd and 2 more often. And I'm not surprised you don't see that. Or maybe we still don't collapse the pocket and it's all for naught.

 

DL in this class it not great. There are really only a couple guys that have high ceilings, so I don't know if there is going to be one that makes a big impact, even in the 2nd round. NT's don;t really start until the 4th round, because nothing great in this class either, but we absolutely need one. There look to be a couple OLBs that could help, and a bunch of secondary players. But a lot of holes to fill.

 

Do me one favor. If you are going to sit here and say we can get by without getting a NT, don't in the next breath tell you value the position. Just, don't.

It makes me want to kill. And I already have enough issues as it is.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

11 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Why even pretend we're going back to a 43. The 34 is the top D in the league because of speed. Everything is fast.

I can assure you, with absolute certainty, that there is at least one 3-4 defense in the NFL that is slow as ****.

[skinsfan93]

Bottom line to me is that there is no NT or DE worth drafting at 17. Either we move down which I doubt since we have already 10 picks or we go offense in the first round and look for a edge rusher in the latter rounds. 

 

The game is about a impact play or two so I think we take maybe Cook or McCaffrey or even Ross. I like fat Rob but he's just not gonna scare defenses. Too bad about Jones and maybe he can gain back his form. Love Thompson but he's not a threat to run it on 1st or 2nd down. Imagine Cook or McCaffrey paired with Rob with CT on 3rd down. We have big wideouts now so a speedster like Ross could help clear the underneath. He would be an interesting player for us. 

[skinny21]

C'mon Morneblade.  Of course we need a nose.  I know this, and everyone else does as well.  Do I think this D can improve without one?  Yes, I do.  I keep bringing up the 2015 defense because while they were atrocious vs the run, they did some things pretty well - most notably on 3rd downs, rushing the passer, turnovers and in the RZ.  That was without Norman, without Galette, with pretty awful play by our ILBs and safeties.  Smith had a few nice games, and Kerrigan was still Kerrigan, but. I think it's fair to think Murphy and Smith are better now than they were.  Drafting an OLB should help the group as well.  

 

I've said I'm not sold on our safeties (in this conversation and elsewhere), but I think this is the best group we've had in a while... at least on paper.  Could they stink up the joint?  Yep, but at least we have a reasonable chance of improving the position. Will their addition, along with Brown, mean we can perform much better against the run if we don't wind up with a decent NT?  Maybe, but I wouldn't expect much more than a marginal improvement... and I realize even that might not happen. 

 

I don't think finding a Dlineman and edge rusher that can contribute means the draft has to work out just right for us.  I mentioned maybe finding an ILB/slot corner, but I'm not banking on it... so again, I don't think the 'just right' comment is fair.  

 

Totally agree that Baker was our best lineman and I was bummed to see him go.  Could have been mitigated if we'd landed Logan/Hankins/etc, but we didn't.  I still think it's possible that the changes at safety, ILB and the dline additions (not to mention any help we get from our younger guys and the draft) could net us a better showing vs the run.  I think it's certainly possible that coaching and scheme help on this front as well.  

 

Anyway, I guess we'll just have to see how it goes.  I'm certainly not expecting a much better D (regardless of whether we land one of the top NTs in the draft), but I see enough positive changes that I see the potential for improvement... particularly in some of the areas we were so, so poor at last year.  

[Morneblade]

12 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

Bottom line to me is that there is no NT or DE worth drafting at 17. Either we move down which I doubt since we have already 10 picks or we go offense in the first round and look for a edge rusher in the latter rounds. 

 

The game is about a impact play or two so I think we take maybe Cook or McCaffrey or even Ross. I like fat Rob but he's just not gonna scare defenses. Too bad about Jones and maybe he can gain back his form. Love Thompson but he's not a threat to run it on 1st or 2nd down. Imagine Cook or McCaffrey paired with Rob with CT on 3rd down. We have big wideouts now so a speedster like Ross could help clear the underneath. He would be an interesting player for us. 

 

If McDowell didn't issues, he's a top 10 pick. So I disagree with you there. I would not take a NT until the 4th, so I agree with you there, but we need to do something about that position.

 

As for the rest, really just window dressing. I like Cook over McCaffery, and I think we're fine with speed. Pryor is blazing and 6'6. Doctson is not a slouch. We're find as far as speed goes.

[CTskin]

44 minutes ago, skinsfan93 said:

The game is about a impact play or two so I think we take maybe Cook or McCaffrey or even Ross. I like fat Rob but he's just not gonna scare defenses. Too bad about Jones and maybe he can gain back his form. Love Thompson but he's not a threat to run it on 1st or 2nd down. Imagine Cook or McCaffrey paired with Rob with CT on 3rd down. We have big wideouts now so a speedster like Ross could help clear the underneath. He would be an interesting player for us. 

At least three RBs will be taken in the 1st round, probably in the top 20. That's borderline unprecedented in this era of football. The last "great class" coming out was in 2015 when Gurley, Gordon, Yelen went in the top 35. We now know that none of them are special; above average at best (some may argue Gurley is better than that, but look at his stats after his first four games when he burst onto the scene). 1st round RBs are so far from guaranteed gamechangers. It's just not a value I see at #17, especially considering Kelley averaged 4.2, which doesn't leave a whole lot of room for improvement. Swiss army knife guys are neat and all, but Gruden's offense will never utilize a RB like AZ or Pitt does.

 

Also, you're scenario "imagine Cook or McCaffrey paired with Rob with CT on 3rd down" is nice, but never going to happen. We simply don't use two RBs on the field at the same time, so unless your idea is to take Crowder out and put one of them in the slot, it won't happen. 

 

Fournette has injury concerns, Cook has fumbling and character issues, McCaffery is the size of Chris Thompson so there are serious doubts about his ability to be a 3-down back. None of them are EZE, for example, who had none of the aforementioned concerns and was much more of a sure thing. 

 

If we traded down and a RB or WR fell in our lap, so be it, just not at #17.

[skinny21]

To be fair... Thompson was 192 at the combine, McCaffrey 10 lbs heavier at 202, 2 lbs heavier than Jamaal Charles's combine weight, someone he's been compared to.

 

Does anyone have a current weight on Thompson?  I'm seeing 195, but not sure how current/accurate that is.

 

 

As to Kelley's 4.2 number, I think it's really interesting that all of our backs averaged over 4 ypc.  Of course, Brown's were inflated due to the one long run (coupled with low usage), and it's hard to analyze Thompson in this regard because of how he was used.  Jones, though, averaged 4.6 ypc... which might be telling.  Makes me wonder just how good our line actually is in run blocking, and just how much better a really good back could do.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Kelley a lot - especially his subtle moves to gain those extra few yards and avoid TFLs - but I'm wondering if we have a chance to improve there.

 

 

Back to McCaffrey, I really like Nemo's description.  His patience, vision and wiggle are fantastic and really allow him to set his blockers up.  Easy to see why someone might believe his line made him look good rather than the other way around.  I think he could make our line look significantly better, but the concerns over his size are pretty valid.  Yes, his abilities make it tougher to get big hits on him, but it's not like he wouldn't see a lot of wear and tear against bigger, faster, stronger NFLers.

 

Was a big fan of his dad - work ethic, character, toughness and hands like fly paper.  

 

Kind of random, but just wanted to say - in all honestly my take on him has absolutely nothing to do with the "ooh, a white running back" claim some are making.  

[Morneblade]

20 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

To be fair... Thompson was 192 at the combine, McCaffrey 10 lbs heavier at 202, 2 lbs heavier than Jamaal Charles's combine weight, someone he's been compared to.

 

Don't for get that Thompson is 5'8 and McCaffery is 5'11. Thompson has more muscle on him.

 

How healthy has Charles been?

Edit: Charles also ran a 4.38 40

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Does anyone have a current weight on Thompson?  I'm seeing 195, but not sure how current/accurate that is.

 

Probably pretty close.

 

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As to Kelley's 4.2 number, I think it's really interesting that all of our backs averaged over 4 ypc.  Of course, Brown's were inflated due to the one long run (coupled with low usage), and it's hard to analyze Thompson in this regard because of how he was used.  Jones, though, averaged 4.6 ypc... which might be telling.  Makes me wonder just how good our line actually is in run blocking, and just how much better a really good back could do.

 

Kelley was 4.5 before he hurt his knee. The big issue with the line is when it needs to be physical. They are really bad at it. Kelley got a lot of positive yardage that should have been negative. I think part of it is because we didn't run that much last year, and defenses sat on the pass more.

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

As to Kelley's 4.2 number, I think it's really interesting that all of our backs averaged over 4 ypc.  Of course, Brown's were inflated due to the one long run (coupled with low usage), and it's hard to analyze Thompson in this regard because of how he was used.  Jones, though, averaged 4.6 ypc... which might be telling.  Makes me wonder just how good our line actually is in run blocking, and just how much better a really good back could do.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Kelley a lot - especially his subtle moves to gain those extra few yards and avoid TFLs - but I'm wondering if we have a chance to improve there.

 

Yea, it's weird.  The OL did not look all that good at run blocking, especially at C and LG and especially in short yardage situations, but I think we're a lot better than we think when compared to the rest of the league. 

 

According to Football Outsiders, for the 2016 season, the OL was 3rd in pass protection and 6th in run blocking.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

 

Also, according to TeamRankings, we're 7th in team yards per rush attempt.  Yet, we're only 25th in rushing play percentage.  So maybe the lack of bulk rushing stats had us underrating our run blocking and running back prowess, and overrating the rest of the leagues'?

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-play-pct

We certainly didn't seem like a top 6 run blocking unit on film, but I think we're a lot better than most fans think.  Currently, I think we're definitely a top 5 pass blocking unit though.  Upgrade LG, and I think our OL is a top 3 unit next year.  We also need some TE's that can actually block because that holds us back too.

[CTskin]

9 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

To be fair... Thompson was 192 at the combine, McCaffrey 10 lbs heavier at 202, 2 lbs heavier than Jamaal Charles's combine weight, someone he's been compared to.

 

Exactly. And how many new knees does Charles have now? CT has been injured a bit, not anywhere near the same extent, but he touches the ball six times a game. Sub-200lbers just can't hold up as 3-down backs, literally zero have. And I don't want a gadget back at #17.

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Exactly. And how many new knees does Charles have now? CT has been injured a bit, not anywhere near the same extent, but he touches the ball six times a game. Sub-200lbers just can't hold up as 3-down backs, literally zero have. And I don't want a gadget back at #17.

 

Charles was also blazing, ran a 4.38 at the combine. McCaffery is not in that league.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I want the white RB. Fits my vision for how I'd like to reshape the team.