Scott McCloughan: Honest Evaluation and Contract Renewal

[The Consigliere]

On 12/21/2016 at 2:13 PM, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Question, do we have a good running game? Answer, no. Question, who is responsible for the running game? Answer, the O line. 

 

It's also worth noting that back a few pages (or maybe it was another thread) a poster linked a graphic showing that the Left side of the line is run blocking at a top 5 level, while the center and right side of the line are run blocking at a bottom 5 or so level (might have been bottom 8). It definitely appears that the run blocking issues are centered around everyone not named Trent Williams, and that Scherrf and Moses are not run blocking at even a below average level, they're worse than that.

 

Quite odd to me as traditionally lineman love run blocking and hate pass blocking, and it's usually much easier to find solid run blockers than it is technical pass blockers, oddly we have the opposite problem. 

[The Consigliere]

On 12/26/2016 at 7:30 AM, Mooka said:

 

A first round player that misses their entire rookie season, including camp is a huge bust already. 

WR? Pretty much impossible for a WR in Josh's situation to make a comeback. Guys like Malcolm Kelly, *Kevin White, Stephen Hill, etc. Best case scenario for Josh is at a Robert Meachem level, or more recently maybe Perriman for Baltimore. And that's his ceiling. 

 

I suggest you consult with people who aren't redskins fans. By and large the consensus of non-redskins fans is that he was the #1 or #2 WR in the draft class, and if the '16 and '17 WR classes were merged, he'd still be a top 4-5 WR in the combined class. 

 

He's nothing remotely like Kelly, White, or Hill. Totally different kind of WR. Scored exceptionally well with Matt Harmon's reception perception tools, with Matt Waldman's tape scouting, and with Matt Kelley's metrics based analysis (which has him blowing Will Fuller out of the water on every athletic measurement except 40 yard dash time, and even there, his height adjusted speed score is ridiculous). 

 

If he's healthy, and he can get more comfortable dealing with press coverage, he has pro bowl caliber upside. He's a stud. If he's not healthy and stay's unhealthy, that is a problem, but that and getting comfortable developing a nice array of moves to beat the press are my lone concerns, if he's healthy and does the latter he'll be a monster WR for us, best WR we've had since Gibbs I and Ellard's retirement tour. 

[The Consigliere]

On 12/26/2016 at 10:42 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

As for Doctson -- Scot was enamored.  He has no fear about that injury having long term implications.  He said that Doctson somewhat blew it by not disclosing his injury-pain for too long hence making that problem worse.  Said Docston to him is Dez Bryant.  He gave me every indication he's jazzed about him for next season.  

 

Doctson was my pick on the draft thread when we made picks before the draft.  He has good speed, great hands, wins jump balls, has size.  There was a great article before the draft which measured the receivers in the draft on numerous metrics and Doctson was the guy who was off the charts.  Forgetting all of that if Scot can find Crowder in the late 4th, I'll trust his judgment about a receiver in the first.  Will see.

 

68th Percentile in Height Adjusted Speed (66th when not adjusted for height)

97th Percentile in Burst Score (vertical/broad jump inertial explosiveness metric)

81st Percentile in Agility Score 

96th Percentile in Catch Radius

 

Blows out the rest of the class of '16 in every metric save for speed and he's quite good there as well. 

[The Consigliere]

On 12/26/2016 at 11:17 AM, 50yrSKINSfan said:

O.K. Suppose Dotson never plays a down for us? Suppose he never heals and he is out of football. Would you then say he was a bust or a great pick? You would say he is a bust. If you bothered to read my posts about the guy I said "NOW he is a bust because he cannot help us but if he comes back next year and becomes a good receiver then I will say it was a good pick. If Dotson never plays and we loose Garcon and DJax we are in worse position. " Rating SM picks NOW not next year LAMO and you GTFO.  

 

This makes no sense to me. It ignores the idea that you develop players you draft, but rather assumes you draft completed products. Granted things have changed with free agency and 4 year rookie deals, but pre-'14 most WR's and QB's were seen as playing on 3 year developmental horizon's, where you cashed out and moved on after 3+ years of little improvement.

 

Based upon your system it appears that development lasts all of one quarter of game 1 and then it's good Irene unless you have seen some kind of immediate dividends. 

 

Tom Brady sat a year, was he a bust? Joe Montana took a year to fully wrestle his job away from Steve Deberg, was he a bust? Some WR's that took more than 1 year to show much in the past decade: 

Victor Cruz

Alshon Jeffrey

Jordy Nelson

Vincent Jackson

Roddy White

Steve Smith

Kenny Britt

Doug Baldwin

Golden Tate

Antonio Brown

Emmanuel Sanders

Demaryius thomas

Tyrell Williams

 

could go on and on. 

 

A player is a bust when he's proven that he can't cut it at the NFL level, when you throw a player into the bust bin because they missed a bunch of time as a rookie, or because they didn't produce meaningful difference making moments as a rookie you toss out the vast majority of players in the league, as well as a huge proportion of the quality WR's on NFL rosters. For every Calvin Johnson or AJ Green, there are another 10 WR's who produced excellent career numbers who took 2 and 3 or even more years to develop into studs at the NFL level. 

 

I don't get your moniker. 50 years should suggest patience. There are no short cuts when it comes to building a winner in the NFL other than landing a franchise QB. Everything else takes time, and even if you land the franchise QB, it usually takes plenty of time. Have some patience with Doctson. The guy tested through the roof, was a monster in college, and passed both metrics, and tape tests, as well as heavy analysis of his route running skills. He passed on everything essentially, then got hurt. Give it time. Maybe he fails, maybe he's no better than Rod Gardner, but the available evidence suggests that if healthy, he'll be a darn good WR at the next level, no guarantee but more likely than not. 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, ultravin said:

rex ryan just got fired.  scotty mac needs to get him ASAP.  Im tired of watching this defense of ours.  he is who we need badly.  this team can be just like greg williams defense back when jg2 was around.  we have a dangerous offense, now we can have that nasty defense

 

He just took a top 5 NFL Defense, and made it one of the very worst in the league by demanding that the talent they had, do things ill suited to their talent. That Bills teams strength was in its front, which was incredibly effective at blowing up the run and sacking the QB. He then forced them to use his system which specialized in creating opportunities for the linebackers to destroy defenses, linebackers that weren't a strength on Buffalo (their strength when he arrived was DL and Secondary) . This is the exact opposite of what we need. We need a modern coach the recognizes the talent base, and maximizes what he has to work with. We've seen this with Bellichek in New England, with the Steelers and Haley, with the dolphins and Gase One could go on and on, heck we have it here in how we utilize Kirk. 

 

If Ryan was dumb enough to go into the Bills F.O., and tear down a top 5 defense in one year and flush it down the toilet into a bottom 5 unit during his brief Bills sojourn, you know all you need to know about him. A football dinosaur chained to his system that will demand that the players fit into it, regardless of how well or ill the fit may be in design. 

 

I want a new DC as well, but I want a hungry, young assistant that shows promise, not an old dinosaur married to a system he refuses to refine or adjust regardless of his roster. 

[The Consigliere]

12 hours ago, bradboyd80 said:

Eh, Buffalo's D the last two years have been in the mid-to-late teens, while we've been in the mid-to-late twenties. I'll take that over what we have now. 

 

Bunch of different metrics you can use, but outsiders has them #2 the year before he arrived, and 24th in both of his two years in Buffalo. I've heard of worse as well, though I'm failing to dig them up right now, could have sworn it was bottom 5, so my previous posts could be a bit off. 

[benskins26]

On top of all the actual Bad fits and stats, dude is a clown. We've finally removed ourselves from years of drama and media circus- that comes right back with a guy like Ryan. I think it was Grant Paulsen who called him a charicature of himself, full of so much BS and hyperbole. 

I'm not 100% convinced that either Ryan coaches any higher than positional in the NFL again. Complete clown show, both of them. And overrated. Statistically lead some of the worst defenses in recent years. We need an upgrade from Barry, but if it's between berry and the Ryan traveling circus act, I'll take Barry 10/10 times. 

[crabbypatty]

16 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

It's also worth noting that back a few pages (or maybe it was another thread) a poster linked a graphic showing that the Left side of the line is run blocking at a top 5 level, while the center and right side of the line are run blocking at a bottom 5 or so level (might have been bottom 8). It definitely appears that the run blocking issues are centered around everyone not named Trent Williams, and that Scherrf and Moses are not run blocking at even a below average level, they're worse than that.

 

Quite odd to me as traditionally lineman love run blocking and hate pass blocking, and it's usually much easier to find solid run blockers than it is technical pass blockers, oddly we have the opposite problem. 

 

It's baffling to say the least. I really think it comes down to Gruden's running scheme. Everything else has changed pieces at virtually all positions on the line, and RB, and still no real consistent AVERAGE success could be found on the ground. That leaves the finger pointed solely at one thing.. the "power" running scheme of Gruden's.. which is really not much more than a token attempt to keep teams honest so the team can sling the ball 8 out of 10 times. We always run out of these bunch formations with the TE's in tight and it's always some kind of trap style play inside. That **** ain't working.. unfortunately this is what we're stuck with for the duration of Gruden's tenure

 

[Mooka]

Remember guys, Lavar is benched because he free-lances too much and is a big dummy. 

 

Knee bruise and 3 scopes in the off-season?

 

Nah, nothing to do with it. 

 

 

 

Hey Consigliere, find me ONE player in NFL who successfully rehabbed in Josh's situation. One. I guarantee if you do find one, its either not a WR, or something drafted with an existing injury. You just listed like 20 players who developed nicely in their careers, surely you can find one who missed their entire first season?

 

When you do find one, it'll be Robert Meachem, and a bunch of guys who's careers are over. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, The Consigliere said:

 

This makes no sense to me. It ignores the idea that you develop players you draft, but rather assumes you draft completed products. Granted things have changed with free agency and 4 year rookie deals, but pre-'14 most WR's and QB's were seen as playing on 3 year developmental horizon's, where you cashed out and moved on after 3+ years of little improvement.

 

Based upon your system it appears that development lasts all of one quarter of game 1 and then it's good Irene unless you have seen some kind of immediate dividends. 

 

Tom Brady sat a year, was he a bust? Joe Montana took a year to fully wrestle his job away from Steve Deberg, was he a bust? Some WR's that took more than 1 year to show much in the past decade: 

Victor Cruz

Alshon Jeffrey

Jordy Nelson

Vincent Jackson

Roddy White

Steve Smith

Kenny Britt

Doug Baldwin

Golden Tate

Antonio Brown

Emmanuel Sanders

Demaryius thomas

Tyrell Williams

 

could go on and on. 

 

A player is a bust when he's proven that he can't cut it at the NFL level, when you throw a player into the bust bin because they missed a bunch of time as a rookie, or because they didn't produce meaningful difference making moments as a rookie you toss out the vast majority of players in the league, as well as a huge proportion of the quality WR's on NFL rosters. For every Calvin Johnson or AJ Green, there are another 10 WR's who produced excellent career numbers who took 2 and 3 or even more years to develop into studs at the NFL level. 

 

I don't get your moniker. 50 years should suggest patience. There are no short cuts when it comes to building a winner in the NFL other than landing a franchise QB. Everything else takes time, and even if you land the franchise QB, it usually takes plenty of time. Have some patience with Doctson. The guy tested through the roof, was a monster in college, and passed both metrics, and tape tests, as well as heavy analysis of his route running skills. He passed on everything essentially, then got hurt. Give it time. Maybe he fails, maybe he's no better than Rod Gardner, but the available evidence suggests that if healthy, he'll be a darn good WR at the next level, no guarantee but more likely than not. 

 

 

 

What makes no sense to me is that when you draft a player that high you want him to come in and help you right away. I hope he is great next year and for 10 years after but as of now he is not helping us. If the guy was that awesome then how come no one else took him before us? Sip said he was rated at 10 and we got him at 22, did SM miss some red flags? Has Doctson proved he can cut it up to now? I am all for giving him a chance as we have no choice. Look, I was down on the pick from the start. I'm sitting there, knowing we have a bottom third defense and SM drafts a receiver. Just not the guy I would have drafted so of course when he can't play I am really going to hate the pick. No need to give a list of guys that sat as for every one of them there are 10 guys that came in as rooks and have helped. P.S. I am running out of patience and time because it is getting closer to 60 than 50.

[bradboyd80]

6 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Bunch of different metrics you can use, but outsiders has them #2 the year before he arrived, and 24th in both of his two years in Buffalo. I've heard of worse as well, though I'm failing to dig them up right now, could have sworn it was bottom 5, so my previous posts could be a bit off. 

Yeah I just went with simple statistics to get an idea. Posted it in the Joe Barry thread.  Over the last three years, the Bills were essentially middle of the pack in almost every category, while we were towards the bottom in every category.  Your point remains, however. I don't want somebody that won't adjust to maximize the talent he has. Give me a Rod Marinelli type. 

[Riggo-toni]

In 2001 Schotferbrains drafted Rod Gardner at #15. Gardner was the second most productive WR his rookie year, barely trailing behind Chris Chambers.

Chambers had a mediocre career, and Gardner was out of football in a few years. WRs from the same draft who were basically invisible their first year? You might recognize a few of their names....

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Santana Moss

TJ Houshmendzadeh 

Reggie Wayne

 

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

What makes no sense to me is that when you draft a player that high you want him to come in and help you right away. I hope he is great next year and for 10 years after but as of now he is not helping us. If the guy was that awesome then how come no one else took him before us? Sip said he was rated at 10 and we got him at 22, did SM miss some red flags? Has Doctson proved he can cut it up to now? I am all for giving him a chance as we have no choice. Look, I was down on the pick from the start. I'm sitting there, knowing we have a bottom third defense and SM drafts a receiver. Just not the guy I would have drafted so of course when he can't play I am really going to hate the pick. No need to give a list of guys that sat as for every one of them there are 10 guys that came in as rooks and have helped. P.S. I am running out of patience and time.

 

Bolded are the really the drivers for your position. You never liked the pick so you are zero patience for it to work out. There are two different conversations. Was it a good pick to start with - and did the pick work out.

 

1. It was a great pick. Doctson was thought by many to be a top 10 picks and the best WR in the draft. He is a great person, extremely hard worker and has all the physical tools to be great. If you have watched any tape on the kid you see he has great timing, really strong and aggressive hands, wins most battles for the ball and has a great vertical making him able to out jump most if not all defenders. Had he not gotten injured, the RZ issues we have may not been as bad. Just add 6 to 8 TDs for the season in the right place and we are 11-4 right now.

 

2. Has the pick worked out? No. The team was unlucky and he got a freak injury before he could make an impact. All the medical experts say he can come back 100% but it takes time. To declare someone a "bust" (very overused word) due to one injured year is jumping to a final conclusion with the very smallest of data.

 

I wonder what your take would have been had we taken William Jackson CB (taken #24) - On IR - not that we needed CB. How about if we reached for NT Kenny Clark (#27) who can't start on a bad GB D and has all of 20 tackles. Based on previous posts stating Scherff was a "reach" at 5 since he was rated at 8 - the team would have had to reach 5 spots to get an underperformer. How about Robert Nkemdiche DT (Taken at #29) who has been an object failure with exactly 1 tackle. How about Vernon Butler DT - (pick 30) who has a total of 7 tackles. Now you are starting to get out of the 1st rd. The only Def players in the next 10 picks after the Redskins is Artie Burns. But again, we did not need CB at the time. So even picking by need we never draft Artie Burns.

 

We could have traded the pick. But for what? To who? Also, I can just see the apoplectic meltdown by the fans had Scot traded the 1st rd pick no matter what he got in return. That's the problem with drafting for need - which is what you are suggesting vs. BP - Scot's approach. The Doctson pick was a great pick with the information available and how the board looked at the time.

 

Unfortunately he is injured. He needs to be given time to recover. If he doesn't, that would suck but it does not make it a bad pick. It makes a good pick turn out poorly. Not all 1st rd picks are going to contribute. Look at the players I just listed. Add Laquon Treadwell to that - the only WR ranked in any preseason poll higher than Doctson. But he is slow and is having trouble learning the route trees. Doctson may have had the same problems - except he is not slow.

 

Need to be able to separate the two.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Riggo-toni said:

In 2001 Schotferbrains drafted Rod Gardner at #15. Gardner was the second most productive WR his rookie year, barely trailing behind Chris Chambers.

Chambers had a mediocre career, and Gardner was out of football in a few years. WRs from the same draft who were basically invisible their first year? You might recognize a few of their names....

Steve Smith

Chad Johnson

Santana Moss

TJ Houshmendzadeh 

Reggie Wayne

 

Wonderful list but going into this weeks game, which we need BAD, Dotson is not there for us and HE HAS NOT BEEN HERE ALL YEAR. Has Wentz been a help? How about Elliot? Let's put the Dotson thing to rest.  It is wasted energy and just gets my blood pressure up. Seems to me you can't say anything negative on this board without a hundred guys hammering you into the ground. You like him, fine, but as of NOW I do not!  Your not going to change my thinking with a list.  I want production not excuses or lists. A list is not gonna help this weekend AND THIS WEEKEND IS WHAT I AM INTERESTED IN, NOT NEXT YEAR OR 5 YEARS FROM NOW!  Merry Christmas

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

What makes no sense to me is that when you draft a player that high you want him to come in and help you right away. I hope he is great next year and for 10 years after but as of now he is not helping us. If the guy was that awesome then how come no one else took him before us? Sip said he was rated at 10 and we got him at 22, did SM miss some red flags? Has Doctson proved he can cut it up to now? I am all for giving him a chance as we have no choice. Look, I was down on the pick from the start. I'm sitting there, knowing we have a bottom third defense and SM drafts a receiver. Just not the guy I would have drafted so of course when he can't play I am really going to hate the pick. No need to give a list of guys that sat as for every one of them there are 10 guys that came in as rooks and have helped. P.S. I am running out of patience and time because it is getting closer to 60 than 50.

 

 

Please tell me who else we could have picked in the first round that would have made a significant impact on our team this year...  PFF recently posted an article grading the 1st round rookies for the year.  I don't see anyone else who would have done much to help us this year:

 

22. Josh Doctson, WR, Redskins (TCU)

Snaps: 31

PFF overall grade: N/A

Josh Doctson’s rookie season has been blighted by injury, and he had only seen the field in two games—the first two of the year—before being placed on IR, ending his season.

23. Laquon Treadwell, WR, Vikings (Ole Miss)

Snaps: 79

PFF overall grade: N/A

At midseason, Laquon Treadwell had seen just 11 snaps on offense, and while that workload has increased exponentially over the second half of the year, his total still sits at just 79. He has seen three targets all season, catching one pass for 15 yards the first time the ball was thrown his way.

24. William Jackson III, CB, Bengals (Houston)

Snaps: 0

PFF overall grade: N/A

A torn pectoral muscle suffered in the first padded practice quickly ended Jackson’s rookie season; he has been on IR all year.

25. Artie Burns, CB, Steelers (University of Miami)

Snaps: 508

PFF overall grade: 76.3

No rookie cornerback has surrendered more touchdown catches than Artie Burns, but he also has three picks, five pass breakups, and has allowed fewer than 60 percent of the passes thrown into his coverage to be caught. One 95-yard catch-and-run by Mike Wallace skews his numbers, and Burns has shown a marked improvement over the second half of the season.

26. Paxton Lynch, QB, Broncos (Memphis)

Snaps: 174

PFF overall grade: 40.2

Since midseason, Paxton Lynch received one more opportunity to get on the field, with an injury to Trevor Siemian giving him the start in Week 13 against Jacksonville. He was arguably worse than his previous start, completing only 12 passes for 104 yards (just 4.3 yards per attempt). Lynch may be the QB of the future in Denver, but everything he has shown so far says that future is a long way off.

27. Kenny Clark, DT, Packers (UCLA)

Snaps: 318

PFF overall grade: 68.0

The Packers have worked Kenny Clark into the defensive-line rotation all season, and while he has flashed the occasional good play, they have been 300 largely non-descript snaps. Clark has just nine total QB pressures and 12 defensive stops on the year.

28. Joshua Garnett, RG, 49ers (Stanford)

Snaps: 655

PFF overall grade: 45.7

After entering the starting lineup in Week 5, Joshua Garnett has started 11 games for the 49ers at right guard, and struggled badly in both run blocking and pass protection. He has surrendered 33 total QB pressures, which is 10th-most among guards, despite playing four fewer games than most; only Arizona’s Earl Watford has a lower pass-blocking efficiency mark than Garnett’s 93.7.

29. Robert Nkemdiche, DT, Cardinals (Ole Miss)

Snaps: 82

PFF overall grade: N/A

A high-ankle sprain kept Robert Nkemdiche off the field early in the season, but he then found his way into head coach Bruce Arians’ doghouse, and has barely been seen all year.

30. Vernon Butler, DT, Panthers (Louisiana Tech)

Snaps: 204

PFF overall grade: 67.1

An injury limited Vernon Butler over much of the season, but he has played in the past six straight games, with 20-plus snaps in each. Over that time, though, he has flashed rather than performed consistently, with five total QB pressures and four defensive stops.

31. Germain Ifedi, OL, Seahawks (Texas A&M)

Snaps: 777

PFF overall grade: 37.6

Germain Ifedi has been one of the league’s worst offensive linemen in his rookie season, playing guard on a team that seems stacked with them. He has surrendered 38 total QB pressures (tied for fourth-most among guards), despite playing only 12 games, and been flagged eight times. His run blocking has at least been passable, but his pass protection needs to improve immeasurably for him to be a viable starter.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Please tell me who else we could have picked in the first round that would have made a significant impact on our team this year...  PFF recently posted an article grading the 1st round rookies for the year.  I don't see anyone else who would have done much to help us this year:

 

22. Josh Doctson, WR, Redskins (TCU)

Snaps: 31

PFF overall grade: N/A

Josh Doctson’s rookie season has been blighted by injury, and he had only seen the field in two games—the first two of the year—before being placed on IR, ending his season.

23. Laquon Treadwell, WR, Vikings (Ole Miss)

Snaps: 79

PFF overall grade: N/A

At midseason, Laquon Treadwell had seen just 11 snaps on offense, and while that workload has increased exponentially over the second half of the year, his total still sits at just 79. He has seen three targets all season, catching one pass for 15 yards the first time the ball was thrown his way.

24. William Jackson III, CB, Bengals (Houston)

Snaps: 0

PFF overall grade: N/A

A torn pectoral muscle suffered in the first padded practice quickly ended Jackson’s rookie season; he has been on IR all year.

25. Artie Burns, CB, Steelers (University of Miami)

Snaps: 508

PFF overall grade: 76.3

No rookie cornerback has surrendered more touchdown catches than Artie Burns, but he also has three picks, five pass breakups, and has allowed fewer than 60 percent of the passes thrown into his coverage to be caught. One 95-yard catch-and-run by Mike Wallace skews his numbers, and Burns has shown a marked improvement over the second half of the season.

26. Paxton Lynch, QB, Broncos (Memphis)

Snaps: 174

PFF overall grade: 40.2

Since midseason, Paxton Lynch received one more opportunity to get on the field, with an injury to Trevor Siemian giving him the start in Week 13 against Jacksonville. He was arguably worse than his previous start, completing only 12 passes for 104 yards (just 4.3 yards per attempt). Lynch may be the QB of the future in Denver, but everything he has shown so far says that future is a long way off.

27. Kenny Clark, DT, Packers (UCLA)

Snaps: 318

PFF overall grade: 68.0

The Packers have worked Kenny Clark into the defensive-line rotation all season, and while he has flashed the occasional good play, they have been 300 largely non-descript snaps. Clark has just nine total QB pressures and 12 defensive stops on the year.

28. Joshua Garnett, RG, 49ers (Stanford)

Snaps: 655

PFF overall grade: 45.7

After entering the starting lineup in Week 5, Joshua Garnett has started 11 games for the 49ers at right guard, and struggled badly in both run blocking and pass protection. He has surrendered 33 total QB pressures, which is 10th-most among guards, despite playing four fewer games than most; only Arizona’s Earl Watford has a lower pass-blocking efficiency mark than Garnett’s 93.7.

29. Robert Nkemdiche, DT, Cardinals (Ole Miss)

Snaps: 82

PFF overall grade: N/A

A high-ankle sprain kept Robert Nkemdiche off the field early in the season, but he then found his way into head coach Bruce Arians’ doghouse, and has barely been seen all year.

30. Vernon Butler, DT, Panthers (Louisiana Tech)

Snaps: 204

PFF overall grade: 67.1

An injury limited Vernon Butler over much of the season, but he has played in the past six straight games, with 20-plus snaps in each. Over that time, though, he has flashed rather than performed consistently, with five total QB pressures and four defensive stops.

31. Germain Ifedi, OL, Seahawks (Texas A&M)

Snaps: 777

PFF overall grade: 37.6

Germain Ifedi has been one of the league’s worst offensive linemen in his rookie season, playing guard on a team that seems stacked with them. He has surrendered 38 total QB pressures (tied for fourth-most among guards), despite playing only 12 games, and been flagged eight times. His run blocking has at least been passable, but his pass protection needs to improve immeasurably for him to be a viable starter.

It is Monday morning QBING now but in all honestly I wanted the center the Colts got. I don't know if he is playing but that is the guy I wanted. At that time we were complaining about our center and LG so I thought, with the info we had, that the center was the guy to get. I wanted to move up a couple of spots to get him. I do not mind moving a couple of spots but never giving away the farm for a option QB. Wonder what our run game would be with him?  I always like moving up if I see a guy I want. I wanted Defense help most and a receiver was not on my list. What is wrong with the corner the Steelers got?

[Hail2theSkins24]

@goskins10 Agree with you that the injury to Doc is more unlucky than anything. I don't think we'd hear a peep of frustration if he played on D and the injury happened. But our defense is so bad so of course there will be the, "Why'd we take a WR! Our offense is fine!" 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

68th Percentile in Height Adjusted Speed (66th when not adjusted for height)

97th Percentile in Burst Score (vertical/broad jump inertial explosiveness metric)

81st Percentile in Agility Score 

96th Percentile in Catch Radius

 

Blows out the rest of the class of '16 in every metric save for speed and he's quite good there as well. 

 

When I spoke to Scot about Doctson the best way I can describe what he thinks of Doctson and his prospects going forward -- I'd call it it a cross from jubilant to beaming.  If I understood Mooka he said my experience with Scot isn't relevant to this discussion.  He's entitled to that opinion, its cool. But, I'll stick to it being big time relevant.   According to Scot, his achilles will heel - he didn't have concerns about the injury lingering into next season  To throw a comparison, (talking a little out of school), he was concerned about Gallette coming off of his achilles injury.

 

Funny enough my lingering memory of Doctson was being at the Dallas game where he blew by the Dallas secondary (sore achilles notwithstanding) and caught a bomb from Kirk which would have been a TD if Kirk didn't under throw it.   We can wallow in the Doctson injury or see how it plays out next season, personally I am super jazzed to see it play out.

[crabbypatty]

19 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

It is Monday morning QBING now but in all honestly I wanted the center the Colts got. I don't know if he is playing but that is the guy I wanted. At that time we were complaining about our center and LG so I thought, with the info we had, that the center was the guy to get. I wanted to move up a couple of spots to get him. I do not mind moving a couple of spots but never giving away the farm for a option QB. Wonder what our run game would be with him?  I always like moving up if I see a guy I want. I wanted Defense help most and a receiver was not on my list. What is wrong with the corner the Steelers got?

 

Didn't Kelly tear up his knee and have to sit out the season as well?

So you're sitting here arguing because the GM didn't pick the guy or position you wanted?

Newsflash guy, that describes 99.9% of us other football fans lol

 

It's already been pointed out that at the time and with the info available, none of the other picks in that range have made any sort of contribution either, soooo yeah.

 

you may not mind giving up picks to move up, but our GM certainly does.. hard to restock a roster from top to bottom when you're trading away picks.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

you may not mind giving up picks to move up, but our GM certainly does.. hard to restock a roster from top to bottom when you're trading away picks.

 

Yeah he has said it in interviews and told me as well, he will trade down but he doesn't like to trade up.   If you are trading up in the first round, depending on how far you go, you are generally at least giving up a 4th rounder but more often a 3rd, sometimes higher.  

[Wildbunny]

9 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

Didn't Kelly tear up his knee and have to sit out the season as well?

Nope, Ryan Kelly is their starting Center since the beginning of the season.

 

Now the Colts OL isn't exactly great also...

[HTTRDynasty]

31 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

It is Monday morning QBING now but in all honestly I wanted the center the Colts got. I don't know if he is playing but that is the guy I wanted. At that time we were complaining about our center and LG so I thought, with the info we had, that the center was the guy to get. I wanted to move up a couple of spots to get him. I do not mind moving a couple of spots but never giving away the farm for a option QB. Wonder what our run game would be with him?  I always like moving up if I see a guy I want. I wanted Defense help most and a receiver was not on my list. What is wrong with the corner the Steelers got?

 

Yes, that's some hardcore Monday Morning QB'ing.  At least you admit it.  So you're willing to trade away valuable mid-round picks to go get a guy you're not even sure will be taken before your pick?  Okay.  I'm glad Scot doesn't agree.  And it's telling that out of that long list of players, the only one you were able to legitimately bemoan us not picking is a player that was selected before our pick.

[Morneblade]

To the OP, I'm really happy we have him. He did a great job with San Fran and Seattle and I think he'll be here for a long time. We've needed another Bobby Beathard for decades. I think we have him with Scot. Not ever pick/FA will work out,but he's going to build the team the right way.

[returnofthefunbunch]

17 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

To the OP, I'm really happy we have him. He did a great job with San Fran and Seattle and I think he'll be here for a long time. We've needed another Bobby Beathard for decades. I think we have him with Scot. Not ever pick/FA will work out,but he's going to build the team the right way.

Totally agree.  Beathard even made some mistakes.  No one is going to make the right decision 100% of the time.  We have improved the last two years, and we are no longer the laughing stock of the league.  It takes time to build a champion.  I think SM is on the right path.  He has an actual plan.  He is not just throwing darts at a dart board like Vinny used to.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yes, that's some hardcore Monday Morning QB'ing.  At least you admit it.  So you're willing to trade away valuable mid-round picks to go get a guy you're not even sure will be taken before your pick?  Okay.  I'm glad Scot doesn't agree.  And it's telling that out of that long list of players, the only one you were able to legitimately bemoan us not picking is a player that was selected before our pick.

If you remember we were all freaking out about our smallish center being knocked back into our QB so of course when I saw Kelly, and I thought he still could be there after 15, I thought we had a shot at him. Think he was ranked 15 or so. But when you looked at the draft you had to figure the Colts were going to take him being that, and I am going by memory, that Luck was sacked and pressured a mil times. Was not that hard of a read really. No one can see the future, just saying, I saw the Colt pick comming as I was tracking Kelly from the beginning of the draft. There is a gauge for what a draft pick is worth. Think if I got a deal I would do it but not a 1 and 3. Pos our 1 and a 4th next year. If it was too much then no but our 1st and a 4th? How did it work out? Did we really need a center? Explained in a mil earlier posts I wanted D help.