Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just now, RonArtest15 said:

 

Yes, I am stereotyping.  I see it everyday in my neck of the woods.  I'm living it. 

So two wrongs make a right?

 

If you want to have a serious discussion regarding the protests, why people are upset with it, what the end goal is, etc then I am totally game.  I think many here would agree that I'm always up for a good open discussion.  And I think there are a lot of others here that have valuable insight to offer.  But wrong "facts", stereotypes, etc don't lead to a thoughtful discussion that is helpful to anyone.

[RonArtest15]

6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So two wrongs make a right?

 

If you want to have a serious discussion regarding the protests, why people are upset with it, what the end goal is, etc then I am totally game.  I think many here would agree that I'm always up for a good open discussion.  And I think there are a lot of others here that have valuable insight to offer.  But wrong "facts", stereotypes, etc don't lead to a thoughtful discussion that is helpful to anyone.

 

True....no argument from me. 

[visionary]

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

So all those "angry 30-something veteran yells at you about government elites while fondling guns in the crew cab of his Dodge Ram" vids on Facebook...those are mostly Russian propaganda, right?

[The Brian Mitchell Truth]

On 8/28/2016 at 6:03 PM, DM72 said:

None of my business if you do or don't. I do, but if someone else decides not or refuses to remove their hat, I don't have a problem with it.

 

You know what I find ironic?  All of the people that feel disrespected, disgusted, outraged, and angry about Kaep and other athletes that take a knee or locking arms during the anthem...  I would like to ask all of them this one question.

 

When you are at home or at a sports bar watching our beloved Skins or any other sporting event, do YOU stand up in your living room or in front of your stool at the bar when the anthem is played?  Cause if you don't, you are a hypocrite inside and out.  If those people are so patriotic then everytime you hear that song played, no matter where you are at, you will stand at attention with hand over heart.

 

I seen a couple of these "hypocrites" in a sports bar 2 weeks ago, ****in and complaining while they watched players take a knee during the anthem.  The first thing I asked them was, "if you 3 guys feel that the ball players were so disrespectful for not standing during the anthem.  If you are so damned patriotic, wtf are you doing still sitting in your bar stools while the anthem is being played?"  It's amazing how quiet that bar got after that.  Amazingly, all the BS about protesting during the anthem ceased.  Hypocrites are so fun to expose.

 

[Burgold]

11 hours ago, tshile said:

 

I think you're being a smart ass at this point.

 

They're doing it in protest and everyone knows that. Let's not add to the bull****, we have enough to wade through as is

It is snark, but I think it's also true and it's an important fact that kneeling has never been considered disrespectful as an act in and of itself. It's actually a devotional gesture. It's a gesture of submission and supplication. So, while players are kneeling to make a point it does seem a stretch to me that they are doing so disrespectfully.

 

Going back to the Sunday night game, there were three classes of response.

Standing

Kneeling

Sitting

 

I'd argue that the sitters could be looked at as being disrespectful while the other two weren't. Earlier, someone mentioned the raised fist. I could see that as being disrespectful. Turning your back is definitely disrespectful. Imagine being in a church and the priest asks the congregation to stand... I don't think many would frown if one got up and kneeled, but they sure would if they stood up and turned their back. They probably would also mutter if the person stood and raised their fist defiantly in the air.

 

So, how you protest does offer a degree of respect or disrespect to the institution.The solution many liked best, not even showing up for the anthem, I personally find the most disrespectful. You disrespect the flag and the Star Spangled Banner so much you won't even show up for it? I know that's not how it's meant, but if I were a teacher leading the Pledge of Alliegance and any time we stood to recite a student got up and walked out the door I'd find that pretty jarring. 

 

Any who, it's a minor point, but I think it's one that matters. I think that those objecting are objecting to the protest and not the act. The act of kneeling is not controversial. No one has ever groused about players assembling after the game, huddling together, and kneeling in prayer. Perhaps, at it's core, this protest is a prayer that America rights its wrongs. That's a pretty good thing. It's certainly not a hostile or disrespectful thing.

[skinsmarydu]

20 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Sorry I am just now coming back to address the kid at the Tomb of the Unknown.  Im on the road so posting while driving is difficult.

 

 

It was respectful.  HE KNELT.  If he had turned his back, THAT would be disrespect.  

And as Bang said, that moment's gonna hang with him.  He might even have a family member or friend being memorialized there. 

 

Thanks for posting while driving.  We're all safer now.

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

24 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

It was respectful.  HE KNELT.  If he had turned his back, THAT would be disrespect.  

And as Bang said, that moment's gonna hang with him.  He might even have a family member or friend being memorialized there. 

 

Thanks for posting while driving.  We're all safer now.

 

 

I didnt post while driving.  Hence the "sorry Im just now responding"

[skinsmarydu]

7 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I didnt post while driving.  Hence the "sorry Im just now responding"

Sorry, I saw "difficult" and misunderstood.

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 minute ago, skinsmarydu said:

Sorry, I saw "difficult" and misunderstood.

No worries.  I could have been more clear.  

[tshile]

it's hilarious that russian internet trolls will forever be on the list of responsible parties for social issues

 

our country is full of stupid people

[LD0506]

12 hours ago, nonniey said:

Yeah he created a win win situation for him. It was a trap that the NFL right into.

 

Oh yeah, Trump opened his stupid hole to spew and outsmarted everybody again! He's so clever he's damn near a super hero

[clskinsfan]

I am so torn on this right now. We all have to make choices. I am completely FOR the RIGHT of the players to kneel or do whatever they want as a sign of protest during the anthem. But I also have the RIGHT not to contribute either financially or emotionally to a bunch of spoiled multi millionaires who want to use something sacred to me as a political pawn. 

 

So it is with a heavy heart that I will be stepping away from Extremeskins, the NFL and my beloved Redskins for a while. I will give no support of any kind to the NFL, its sponsors or any of it's players until they decide to stop the protests during the anthem. Those of you that know me know that until recently my family had season tickets since 1969. We are a REDSKINS FAMILY. But my family also has a long history of military service and love of country. I cannot personally contribute to the league in its current condition.

 

I wish all of my Extremeskins family well. And I will be back when/If the protesting during the anthem stops. For me it really comes down to doing something instead of talking about it. And like I said we all have our own choices to make.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Chris

[Gamebreaker]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I am so torn on this right now. We all have to make choices. I am completely FOR the RIGHT of the players to kneel or do whatever they want as a sign of protest during the anthem. But I also have the RIGHT not to contribute either financially or emotionally to a bunch of spoiled multi millionaires who want to use something sacred to me as a political pawn. 

 

So it is with a heavy heart that I will be stepping away from Extremeskins, the NFL and my beloved Redskins for a while. I will give no support of any kind to the NFL, its sponsors or any of it's players until they decide to stop the protests during the anthem. Those of you that know me know that until recently my family had season tickets since 1969. We are a REDSKINS FAMILY. But my family also has a long history of military service and love of country. I cannot personally contribute to the league in its current condition.

 

I wish all of my Extremeskins family well. And I will be back when/If the protesting during the anthem stops. For me it really comes down to doing something instead of talking about it. And like I said we all have our own choices to make.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Chris

 

Sooooo.....how do you feel about police brutality? 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 minute ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

Sooooo.....how do you feel about police brutality? 

Im going to help him out since he is leaving.

 

I would imagine he is more against police brutality than Fidel Castro was.  You know who he is right?  He was the guy on Kaep's shirt.

[Llevron]

Its unfortunate that you feel that way. You seem like a sensible person and your voice could be better put to use helping advance the discussion than sitting on the sidelines waiting for it to be over. But you gotta do what you gotta do, I guess. 

 

Like I said before I hope the players kneel until the conversation is had in a constructive matter and we as a country get past all the over reactions and taking sides. We will never be the country we are supposed to be until we do that. 

 

Also - Thank your President for ruining football for you. If you really love it that much you should be livid that he made this about the Military and the Flag. It was never about disrespect and it still isn't. He fooled you and now its ruined your family past time. You should be pissed at him, not the "Spoiled Millionaires" 

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Im going to help him out since he is leaving.

 

I would imagine he is more against police brutality than Fidel Castro was.  You know who he is right?  He was the guy on Kaep's shirt.

 

Straw man much? Lol. That wasnt even a good one. Way to go

[Gamebreaker]

5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Im going to help him out since he is leaving.

 

I would imagine he is more against police brutality than Fidel Castro was.  You know who he is right?  He was the guy on Kaep's shirt.

 

More against it than Castro, well that's a low bar. I would've hoped he would've been more against it than his personal feelings about the anthem and the flag, but I guess not. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Gamebreaker

[grego]

On 9/27/2017 at 9:36 AM, justice98 said:

 

I already addressed his play from the pocket with actual data.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2016/sort/cwepaPassesCondensed

 

2016 Regular Season NFL Leaders

RK	PLAYER	PTS ADDED	PASS	RUN	PENALTY	TOTAL EPA	QB PLAYS	RAW QBR	TOTAL QBR
1	Drew Brees, NO	33.6	84.4	1.6	0.4	96.5	760	65.1	66.8
2	Matt Ryan, ATL	61.8	83.1	7.6	4.6	110.9	647	79.4	79.6
3	Kirk Cousins, WSH	33.4	78.8	3.8	3.1	97.8	706	66.1	66.5
4	Aaron Rodgers, GB	54.9	75.9	18.3	6.2	115.0	750	73.8	72.4
5	Tom Brady, NE	47.8	71.5	3.8	2.7	83.3	508	79.1	79.4
6	Dak Prescott, DAL	53.1	71.1	18.8	2.1	102.5	572	78.8	77.6
7	Matthew Stafford, DET	34.6	61.5	16.0	6.3	98.4	715	66.5	65.2
8	Jameis Winston, TB	19.6	61.4	5.8	-0.5	80.6	703	59.7	59.5
9	Derek Carr, OAK	8.8	58.9	-0.6	7.9	72.3	672	54.6	56.1
10	Andrew Luck, IND	32.7	56.6	10.9	5.3	91.4	702	65.9	65.9
RK	PLAYER	PTS ADDED	PASS	RUN	PENALTY	TOTAL EPA	QB PLAYS	RAW QBR	TOTAL QBR
11	Philip Rivers, LAC	14.6	55.3	1.2	4.9	74.9	682	57.5	58.7
12	Ben Roethlisberger, PIT	19.5	53.7	1.9	2.3	64.7	576	61.8	60.5
13	Joe Flacco, BAL	5.7	53.1	4.8	0.4	74.7	753	52.7	52.5
14	Eli Manning, NYG	-1.3	49.7	0.4	1.2	62.0	660	49.3	45.7
15	Carson Wentz, PHI	-1.3	47.9	2.8	2.2	65.0	734	49.4	46.7
16	Russell Wilson, SEA	13.5	47.4	5.8	4.3	75.7	699	56.8	57.1
17	Carson Palmer, ARI	8.8	46.0	0.8	5.6	68.3	700	54.5	52.9
18	Sam Bradford, MIN	13.4	45.8	3.1	1.1	64.6	644	57.3	53.1
19	Alex Smith, KC	13.7	44.7	6.6	2.3	62.7	600	58.0	60.8
20	Marcus Mariota, TEN	15.5	42.9	7.3	5.0	64.7	574	59.4	59.1
RK	PLAYER	PTS ADDED	PASS	RUN	PENALTY	TOTAL EPA	QB PLAYS	RAW QBR	TOTAL QBR
21	Andy Dalton, CIN	1.6	37.9	5.2	3.6	61.8	686	50.8	52.3
22	Tyrod Taylor, BUF	20.0	31.5	20.9	3.4	71.5	608	61.4	62.4
23	Trevor Siemian, DEN	-2.7	31.0	0.9	3.5	50.5	586	48.4	49.7
24	Ryan Tannehill, MIA	-0.8	25.4	3.7	0.7	40.1	476	49.4	48.6
25	Cam Newton, CAR	-3.8	24.4	6.2	5.4	53.4	669	48.0	47.1
26	Brock Osweiler, HOU	-0.8	23.9	9.6	4.2	49.0	583	49.5	49.3
27	Blake Bortles, JAX	-15.9	18.7	13.4	6.0	52.0	773	42.8	43.0
28	Ryan Fitzpatrick, NYJ	-16.8	14.4	3.2	2.9	27.5	481	37.9	39.2
29	Case Keenum, LAR	-14.5	10.2	0.1	1.2	22.6	388	37.1	37.5
30	Colin Kaepernick, SF	-0.7	-0.3	22.8	-0.1	37.1	454	49.5	49.2

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Straw man much? Lol. That wasnt even a good one. Way to go

Its early.

 

I think it says something about messaging though.  Had CK or other players handled this differently maybe we would be seeing a different response.  I know my opinion of CK, and by proxy his protest, went straight to attention whore when he came out to the presser in a freaking Castro shirt and Che hat.

3 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

More against it than Castro, well that's a low bar.

See above why I mentioned Castro.

[grego]

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Its unfortunate that you feel that way. You seem like a sensible person and your voice could be better put to use helping advance the discussion than sitting on the sidelines waiting for it to be over. But you gotta do what you gotta do, I guess. 

 

Like I said before I hope the players kneel until the conversation is had in a constructive matter and we as a country get past all the over reactions and taking sides. We will never be the country we are supposed to be until we do that. 

 

 

 

agree. i wouldnt do it, but i respect and understand the decision. 

 

agree about having the conversation in a constructive manner. now, how does that actually happen? i think we are kind of doing it here, but its more about the anthem and less (or none) about the issue.

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Its early.

 

I think it says something about messaging though.  Had CK or other players handled this differently maybe we would be seeing a different response.  I know my opinion of CK, and by proxy his protest, went straight to attention whore when he came out to the presser in a freaking Castro shirt and Che hat.

 

 

#didnothelphiscause

[steve09ru]

But how do we know these conversations aren't happening already and steps being made to improve?  Seems to me it's at the state and local level where these improvements will need to be made.  You've heard that there's new protocols, trainings in regards to police brutality that are being taken.  These won't happen overnight either.  But in order for this to fully stop outside of just the police brutality aspect, inner cities need to change to.  It's going to take more than just the government officials to make this work and the only way it improves is if the people in these areas work to improve as well.

[Llevron]

13 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Its early.

 

I think it says something about messaging though.  Had CK or other players handled this differently maybe we would be seeing a different response.  I know my opinion of CK, and by proxy his protest, went straight to attention whore when he came out to the presser in a freaking Castro shirt and Che hat.

 

Thats such a petty reason to stop listening to someone to be honest. I mean he didn't even say anything about the shirt. But I also know that you see the world differently than me due to your experiences so I cant really say how you should feel. But if someone was doing something I disagreed with I think the last thing I would be worried about was their T shirt of choice that day. If the world ran like that there would be zero hope of understanding between BLM and any Confederate flag waving groups. 

 

11 minutes ago, grego said:

 

agree. i wouldnt do it, but i respect and understand the decision. 

 

agree about having the conversation in a constructive manner. now, how does that actually happen? i think we are kind of doing it here, but its more about the anthem and less (or none) about the issue.

 

Between you and I - I dont think its possible without leadership that would show us the way. The American people are stupid and afraid for the most part and without someone showing them how to do it, they wont. Its unfortunate. 

 

9 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

But how do we know these conversations aren't happening already and steps being made to improve?  Seems to me it's at the state and local level where these improvements will need to be made.  You've heard that there's new protocols, trainings in regards to police brutality that are being taken.  These won't happen overnight either.  But in order for this to fully stop outside of just the police brutality aspect, inner cities need to change to.  It's going to take more than just the government officials to make this work and the only way it improves is if the people in these areas work to improve as well.

 

Jeff Sessions. Start there and work your way down. You peep how many cases the DOJ dropped? Yea, dont tell me steps are being taken. It wasnt more than a few weeks ago the president told a group of cops to **** up some minorities if you can and they cheered for that ****!

 

 

Edit: I legitimately never even thought about his shirt past 'Well thats sure to piss off a few people' when he had press conference. I find it funny that something so small distracted so many people from cops shooting people in the streets in front of them weekly. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Llevron

[SemperFi Skins]

14 minutes ago, grego said:

 

agree. i wouldnt do it, but i respect and understand the decision. 

 

agree about having the conversation in a constructive manner. now, how does that actually happen? i think we are kind of doing it here, but its more about the anthem and less (or none) about the issue.

 

 

#didnothelphiscause

 

Neither did the pig in a cop uniform socks he wore at practice...

[The Brian Mitchell Truth]

53 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

Sooooo.....how do you feel about police brutality? 

 

OMG!!!!  I was thinking the same thing.  CK's original reasoning in all of this has gotten so lost in the background.  I fully respect how clskinsfan feels, but the true reasoning for the original protest has gotten drowned out.

 

But just imagine if all of us took that same stand but in a different way.  What if all of us said we will stop posting until police brutality stopped and these garbage ass police that commit these atrocities are brought up on REAL charges and REAL jail time for unjustified murder.  What if we said, until these things happened, we will no longer be posting on this Skins forum.

 

That would mean that this site would totally die, because police brutality will never change.

[Llevron]

Pig socks hurt the cause but im sure calling all protesting NFL players sons of ****es was very helpful right? 

 

Right. I aint gonna argue with yall all day, but thats petty as ****.