Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

[zoony]

I guesss the question i would be asking as an African American is why all these other minorities like Asians and Jews and even Hispanics are so successful after a generation or two on US soil.  Captains of industry like Henry Ford and Walt Disney and our countrys Presidents have been OPENLY anti semetic as recently as the 1970s.  Among those who are truly racist, nobody is hated more than the Jews.  Yet they have come to this country and dominated.  Second generation hispanics who came over as anchor babies are already woven into our country's university system and corporate America.  Yet we know what racist America thinks of them just look at Trumps polling numbers. The Asians need no introduction.

 

So whats holding back the AA community?  I might start with the prevailing attitudes towards education in my community.  Beyond that i dont know, but something stinks no doubt

 

There is no doubt racism exists today towards blacks and little doubt that even institutional racism still exists.  That needs to be worked on and talked about. 

 

I dont think anyone wants to really have an honest converstion about the problems in the AA community.  It always boils down to a shouting match between "the man is keeping us down" -vs- "just work harder"

 

Kaps done nothing to help.  Some say hes raising awareness, but i think hes just polarized the issue more, actually making it worse.  Regardless, i think the guy has an IQ of my dog's butthole.  If the AA is looking to him to be a leader, i men, God help us all.  This is the douchebag who used to kiss his biceps after a TD.  Maybe look to those presenting articulate solutions and pragmatism to lead on this issue.  Crazy talk i know

[Going Commando]

I don't understand why Kaepernick's action touched a nerve like it did.  Good God, how bored are people?

What a silly and unserious thing to become a proxy war in a broad racial conflict.

[codeorama]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't understand why Kaepernick's action touched a nerve like it did.  Good God, how bored are people?

What a silly and unserious thing to become a proxy war in a broad racial conflict.

 

Its because he's not some random struggling guy. He's paid millions for playing a game. Something most of us wish we could do yet he hates the place where he's allowed to have that opportunity. 

 

Most st people realize that if he lived somewhere else, his life wouldn't be as privledged as it is. 

[justice98]

6 minutes ago, codeorama said:

 

Its because he's not some random struggling guy. He's paid millions for playing a game. Something most of us wish we could do yet he hates the place where he's allowed to have that opportunity. 

 

Most st people realize that if he lived somewhere else, his life wouldn't be as privledged as it is. 

So it all boils down to how much money he makes.

[codeorama]

9 minutes ago, justice98 said:

So it all boils down to how much money he makes.

 No, it doesn't boil down to that. But I'd seriously bet that I've personally experienced more racism in the past 4 years than he has. I'm white but I live in a predominantly black city and teach in a predominantly black school district. I'm literally the minority. So I don't have pity on him. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think anyone who's listened to him knows that he's not talking about himself, he's talking about, as he said:  

Quote

"The fact that it has blown up like this, I think it's a good thing. It brings awareness," Kaepernick said Sunday. "Now, I think people are really talking about it. Having conversations about how to make change. What's really going on in this country. And we can move forward. ...There is police brutality. People of color have been targeted by police. So that's a large part of it and they're government officials. They are put in place by the government. So that's something that this country has to change. There's things we can do to hold them more accountable. Make those standards higher."

He's never once said he's been treated unfairly or felt that he's a target.  Not once.  He's never said "I've experience so much racism over the past few years..."  So all of the "well if he feels so oppressed, he should thank his lucky stars and realize what a great country this is" kind of posts and sentiments found elsewhere are pretty off-base.  IMO as are the "flag=military" assumptions that people have dragged into this.  He's never once talked about the military either.  

I just find it funny that Colin Kaepernick thinks he knows "What's really going on in this country."  He can barely string a sentence together, wore a Fidel Castro t-shirt to his press conference yesterday and just doesn't seem to be the most shining example of intelligence.  This is a dude who'd kiss his muscles after scoring touchdowns a few years ago.  He's acting like he's bringing something new to the forefront here when people have been talking about this issue since Ferguson brought it back to the nation's conscious a couple years ago.  It's been an issue for a long time.  

Maybe Colin should donate some of his time or salary to figure out how he can really help and lead by example rather than sitting down for a few minutes before a football game.  

[skinsmarydu]

35 minutes ago, justice98 said:

So it all boils down to how much money he makes.

Not really.  Go back to his first statement.  If he won't "stand for the flag of a country" that has offered him the ability to make millions, then he won't appreciate the advantages he is offered by the freedom he enjoys as a citizen of said country. 

And who cares?  Let him sit.  (Better than him doing it standing up, with a football in his hand, imo.)  We might end up having to face his team in the playoffs. 

 

[tshile]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't understand why Kaepernick's action touched a nerve like it did.  Good God, how bored are people?

What a silly and unserious thing to become a proxy war in a broad racial conflict.

Or...

It has nothing to do with a racial conflict, much less proxy war for one, and has everything to do with not standing during the national anthem.

 

[grego]

17 hours ago, Rskins06 said:

http://www.allenbwest.com/allen/message-non-oppressed-black-man-colin-kaepernick

Good read

that was a spanking.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

Kaepernick makes is sound as if nobody has turned on a TV in the past couple of years. "Hey, did you guys know that police are using excessive force often! I hate my country and my flag!"

[justice98]

1 hour ago, codeorama said:

 No, it doesn't boil down to that. But I'd seriously bet that I've personally experienced more racism in the past 4 years than he has. I'm white but I live in a predominantly black city and teach in a predominantly black school district. I'm literally the minority. So I don't have pity on him. 

"In the past 4 years". Colin Kaepernick is a 28-year old biracial man. Your 4 years dont trump his entire life.  He's personally talked about what he experienced with racism growing up.  You dont forget and it doesnt stop once you get a little cash.  If people saw him as black before, they'll see him as black now.

And I dont know why people assume racism stops when you get a little money in your pocket. 

[Bang]

6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't understand why Kaepernick's action touched a nerve like it did.  Good God, how bored are people?

What a silly and unserious thing to become a proxy war in a broad racial conflict.

It's simple.

it gave people an unassailable position from which to sneer down on someone else.

Social media paradise.

~Bang

[Burgold]

More, there has been a long simmering debate on respect for the National Anthem at sporting events whether it's people talking through it, shouting "O!" to praise the Orioles, sitting, or whatever. It feeds into a more general discussion people have been having. It also feeds into the discussions of whether kids should stand up in class and state the pledge if their parents are atheist, a different religion, etc.

In part, that's why it hasn't been a good driver for this particular protest. Not standing up for the Anthem seems to be part of an ongoing debate with no clear reasoning.

[zoony]

30 minutes ago, Bang said:

It's simple.

it gave people an unassailable position from which to sneer down on someone else.

Social media paradise.

~Bang

But enough about Kap!

 

rimshot!!!

[SkinsHokieFan]

I am often these days reminded of the line by Brad Pitt's charachter in "12 years a slave" 2:38 into this clip

 

"These is an ill Mr. Epps, a feaful ill resting upon this nation, and there will be a day of reckoning yet."

 

That day in theory would have been the civil war. But another 100 years of institutional racism plus a few decades more in society and that true reckoning never came. With the advent of live streams and how quick a video of a police shooting gets out, we may finally be there.

Rodney King was unique in 1991 because police brutality against blacks was actually caught on camera for once. Now it seemingly happens every other day.

That reckoning is not just occurring here in America though, its also happening in Europe. We are at an interesting point in history, probably the first time since right before the renaissance that the narrative of the world at large is not controlled by white European men (or decesedants of who became American), whether it be European colonial masters conquering the world, or plantation owners in the south.  

And while it may not be fair, actions people like Colin Kapernick take is essentially asking those who around today to answer for the sins of their forefathers. 

One more thing. I can't stand the anthem at sporting events. Or God Bless America. Or any other over the top nationalistic BS. It makes sense in the olympics when you are representing America. But for a Friday night Redskins vs Bills preseason game along with "honoring America" before the 2 minute warning? Spare me please. 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by SkinsHokieFan

[Bozo the kKklown]

8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't understand why Kaepernick's action touched a nerve like it did.  Good God, how bored are people?

What a silly and unserious thing to become a proxy war in a broad racial conflict.

A lot of white Americans see it as an attack on America (and by proxy, whiteness. Even if they do not want to admit it)

 

That combined with how overly patriotic the NFL likes to pretend it is (while charging the military for it, which actually isnt patriotic but shhh) and it was a perfect storm.

[justice98]

Jackie Robinson explained quite eloquently in his autobiography, I thought, why he wouldnt stand for the anthem.

[Burgold]

Recent posts made me think of something that happened back in high school. We were sitting for an assembly and they began playing the Star Spangled Banner. No one really expected it, but I overheard two French exchange students ask each other "Shouldn't we be standing up for this?" Most of the students in the auditorium were seated. Guiltily, I stood right after hearing this and I think by the end practically everyone was standing.

I don't think this was an example of protest, but just a lack of coordination and cluelessness.

So, I suppose part of the question of this thread is should you stand period and is it appropriate to play the National Anthem at sporting events? This new way of parsing the question doesn't really change how I feel, but I think it's interesting.

Edit: I haven't read the Jackie Robinson explanation. I probably would find it compelling.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I've read the Jackie Robinson bit.  I would not that 1) he did a lot more than JUST not standing for the anthem and 2) times were far different back then.

[justice98]

But his line "I know that I am a black man in a white world", even in 2016, black people know exactly what that's about.  That hasnt changed over time.

34 minutes ago, Burgold said:

So, I suppose part of the question of this thread is should you stand period and is it appropriate to play the National Anthem at sporting events? This new way of parsing the question doesn't really change how I feel, but I think it's interesting.

It's not inappropriate, but it doesnt serve any real purpose either.

[twa]

7 minutes ago, justice98 said:

But his line "I know that I am a black man in a white world", even in 2016, black people know exactly what that's about.  That hasnt changed over time.

I thought he was bi-racial?

Are we sure he is black?

[The Evil Genius]

Times might have been different and the racism back then was more overt, but it doesn't change that statistically there was a 6% rise in fatal shootings by police in the first 6 months of this year. 

And that blacks are 2.5 times more likely to be shot than whites.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fatal-shootings-by-police-surpass-2015s-rate/2016/07/07/81b708f2-3d42-11e6-84e8-1580c7db5275_story.html

Quote

A Post database that tracks fatal shootings by police shows a 6 percent increase in the number of such deaths during the first six months of 2016, compared with the same period last year. Fatal encounters are strikingly similar to last year’s shootings: Blacks continued to be shot at 2.5 times the rate of whites. About half of those killed were white, and about half were minorities. Less than 10 percent of all those killed were unarmed. One-quarter were mentally ill.

But there are notable differences: More of the shootings were captured on video, 76 in the first half of 2015 and 105 in the first half of this year. And the number of fatal shootings of black women, such as that of Jessica Nelson-Williams in San Francisco in May, has risen. Nearly the same number of black women have been killed so far this year as in all of last year — eight this year, compared with 10 in all of 2015.

 

And I think that's the discussion that should be coming out of this. Unfortunately, had Kap held on to his views and stood during the anthem - most people here would have listened to him more....

Or not - since no one seems to know he's been talking about this issue for months now. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by The Evil Genius

[Bang]

I don't get at all that Kaepernick is complaining about HIS life.. .  but i am hearing plenty of people hearing hm attach himself to the problems he is protesting.. i haven't gotten that from him at all.

i think the "he's rich and has nothing to **** about" is ludicrous.

He isn't saying he has it bad. But, if he got pulled over by one of those cops who are the type causing problems,,  all of his money means nothing while he's standing there trying not to get killed.

Money, position, means nothing about your social conscience. having one does not mean you are no longer allowed to have the other,, and it also doesn't mean that unless you put it all in 100% then it's meaningless. (Bill Gates doesn't worry about malaria carrying mosquitoes biting him in his sleep. But others do, and he's spent a lot helping people who have this problem. But he hasn't stopped terrorism, and he hasn't spent trillions in trying to clean up fukushima, and he doesn't make sure everyone in Peru has clean water, etc. etc. etc. So is his malaria nets effort useless, then? Is he a hypocrite because he hasn't addressed every problem his vast resources could?

Fact is, if he, or Kaepernick, or anyone in those positions said "**** you, i got mine"... we'd have even less respect than we think we have for his statements.

 

then again, maybe not. That does seem to be the heroic attitude anymore.

 

~Bang

[twa]

and study shows black officers are more likely to shoot blacks than white officers

 

and study says body cams increase the odds of a officer using deadly force

 

what is the answer?

[justice98]

3 minutes ago, twa said:

I thought he was bi-racial?

Are we sure he is black?

Kap's dad was black, if I'm not mistaken.  And he's talked about being biracial and growing up with white adoptive parents and people in the community looking at him weird and being suspicious of him cuz they though he was black.

But aside from that, I was really talking about Jackie Robinson.