2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[nemocystem]

So...i'm becoming resigned to the idea that this ends up like the Scherff pick.  All this hand-wringing over Leonard Williams, & "he will never fall to 5."  Then he did...it was crazy...i remember feeling shocked that he was actually there, the. Sinking into the realization that we were gonna draft Scherff.  

 

I can totally see all this coming down, & McCaffrey is suddenly available at 17...only for us to select Forrest Lamp, or Cunningham.  It wouldn't be popular...& i would be a little perturbed...but either guy could be a solid perennial contributor.  

 

I feel that McCaffrey is most likely gone by 17, & i only hope that 2 QBs get taken early so that one of the more solid prospects falls to 17.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, nemocystem said:

Funny he said Portis as his comp.  I have that written down on my big board as my comp for Cook...aside from fumbles, & pass catching...but Portis loved to clean clocks in pass blocking

 

Yeah before Cooley even got to summing him up as Clinton Portis -- his description of Cook reminded me of him.   I watched Cook more than any other prospect but I haven't really tried to analyze him that deeply.  Cook started as my #1 choice, then he fell out with me, now he's inching his way back up there for me.  

 

I think the wild cards relating to what falls our way are the quarterbacks and what the Saints-Colts and to a lesser degree the Eagles do.  The Saints and the Colts needs arguably match our needs well.  Saints seemed to be linked to MLB/RB.  The Colts seemed to be linked also to MLB/RB.  The Eagles seemed to be linked to CB/RB.   If for example the Saints go McCaffrey and the Colts go Cook -- there is a fighting chance Reddick or Foster lands at #17.  On the other hand if the Saints and the Colts go Reddick/Foster.  Then the Eagles might take one of the Rbs.  

 

If all the hype is on the money about McCaffrey, hard for me to see how he gets past Carolina, Saints/Colts and the Eagles.   Cook's the guy more likely to fall.   This draft IMO is more fascinating from our point of view than most because you got so many wildcards in play.  It's unlikely to happen but we've seen some mocks by legitmate draft geeks who have had one of these guys drop to #17: J. Adams, M. Hooker, R. Foster.  If that goes down seems to be a no brainer to take one of those guys.

 

The one thing though I wonder about R. Foster and Reddick is they both seem to be Will MLBs versus Mikes.  And Zach Brown seems to be a Will.   So how would that all mesh?

 

[Aquariuzzz]

On Dalvin Cook's highlight tapes, his running style is so much like Keith Marshall who we drafted last draft after injuries but similar running style. Similar patience, juke ability and what are the plans for Keith Marshall after a whole season of rest and conditioning???

 

 

Personally, I think McCaffrey is a better fit as a lighter, faster, quicker Fat Rob, but why do we need another Fat Rob for a first round pick when we have other needs that could be filled. Lets be clear, we probably should draft another RB later in the draft but if we don't, its not a big deal. If the defense gets a boost, we wont even notice that RB position is lacking if they play poorly. 

 

We can pick up Mixon or some other underrated RB with a later pick and the chances they produce are about the same (In our system... they wont be superstars let alone given 25-30 carries a game behind our line and under Gruden)

[3 Rings]

Yeah the source for that video linked it as the video interview of the alleged high school victim.  My bad.   Not a good look though with a second allegation, even if dad did recant it for some unknown reason.  I've personally fallen off the fence into do not draft Joe Mixon land.   

[XxSpearheadxX]

6 minutes ago, 3 Rings said:

Yeah the source for that video linked it as the video interview of the alleged high school victim.  My bad.   Not a good look though with a second allegation, even if dad did recant it for some unknown reason.  I've personally fallen off the fence into do not draft Joe Mixon land.   

Yeah it sounds like his future will be affected by his actions no matter what. Amelia Molitor sounds pretty scummy (beligerent drunk racial slur hurling girl), he sounds pretty scummy (well just watch what he did), the Dad from HS either said something in anger and regretted it or got paid off later to recant the truth.  Whole thing is a bucket of snakes. I totally understand not wanting to stick your hand in that, sounds like a safe bet.

[Master Blaster]

20 minutes ago, nemocystem said:

So...i'm becoming resigned to the idea that this ends up like the Scherff pick.  All this hand-wringing over Leonard Williams, & "he will never fall to 5."  Then he did...it was crazy...i remember feeling shocked that he was actually there, the. Sinking into the realization that we were gonna draft Scherff.  

 

I can totally see all this coming down, & McCaffrey is suddenly available at 17...only for us to select Forrest Lamp, or Cunningham.  It wouldn't be popular...& i would be a little perturbed...but either guy could be a solid perennial contributor.  

 

I feel that McCaffrey is most likely gone by 17, & i only hope that 2 QBs get taken early so that one of the more solid prospects falls to 17.

 

Assuming McCaffrey and Cook are both available at 17, and the choice is to go BPA on defense, it actually greatly opens up the possibility of one of McCaffrey/Cook/Mixon to fall to 2.17

[Morneblade]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

The one thing though I wonder about R. Foster and Reddick is they both seem to be Will MLBs versus Mikes.  And Zach Brown seems to be a Will.   So how would that all mesh?

 

 

I agree, with picking up Brown in FA, Reddick and Foster are not such needs. I also worry about Foster playing at under 230 being able to be effective. Reddick is too small for OLB.

 

5 minutes ago, Aquariuzzz said:

On Dalvin Cook's highlight tapes, his running style is so much like Keith Marshall who we drafted last draft after injuries but similar running style. Similar patience, juke ability and what are the plans for Keith Marshall after a whole season of rest and conditioning???

 

 

Personally, I think McCaffrey is a better fit as a lighter, faster, quicker Fat Rob, but why do we need another Fat Rob for a first round pick when we have other needs that could be filled. Lets be clear, we probably should draft another RB later in the draft but if we don't, its not a big deal. If the defense gets a boost, we wont even notice that RB position is lacking if they play poorly. 

 

We can pick up Mixon or some other underrated RB with a later pick and the chances they produce are about the same (In our system... they wont be superstars let alone given 25-30 carries a game behind our line and under Gruden)

 

Cook is more elusive than Marshall. And the problem with Marshall is the injuries. They happen, a lot with him. I was one of his biggest fans coming out last year, and I think he can do something if he stays healthy. But he has to stay healthy. And he really needs to show up this offseason.

 

I don't think you can compare McCaffery to Kelley. Kelley is a 230 pound hard nosed runner with moderate speed at best, while McCaffery is a guy with good wheels and vision, but not much size or power. He also runs routes great for a RB and has really good hands. You could say there are completely different. Rob can carry the rock 20 times a game, but not offer much else. McCaffery can't but can give you a edge and passing threat.

 

I don't think Mixon is underrated. He just has not one, but 2 charges of hitting women come up. His stock is dropping not because of talent, but because of being a scumbag.

[Koolblue13]

Marshall is nobody and its probable the guy never sees an actual snap. Hes also the 5th at best, RB on our roster. Why is he even getting mentioned? 

 

ZB is here on a 1 year deal. He has no impact on whether or not we draft a MLB. At least it shouldn't at all.

 

Cant imagine a father would ever cover for a kid beating his daughter. Still, **** mixon.

[The Rook]

Heard Dan Patrick talking about Chris Collinsworth's mock, so I googled it. Has the Skins taking the safety J Adams. 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Skinsinparadise]

Greg Cosell is hot and miss for me but here is some of his take on players.  He has an interesting point about Conley which is he can play the slot.  If Conley falls he's an intriguing prospect IMO -- big guy with speed, good character/leader type.  Considering how we get beat in the slot when the Giants move Beckham there and Dallas via Beasley -- he could be a big help.  

 

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Greg-Cosells-Nuggets-Of-Draft-Wisdom/5bcae486-659b-40c3-b898-8cd1bc75d9cd

 

Cosell is a fan of Taco Charlton

"I really like Taco Charlton. He may not be, if you're going to do Wide-9, an exact fit," Cosell said. "I think he can be a very good pass rusher. I think because of his size and length he can move inside as well and become a rusher from the d-tackle position."

 

Most analysts grade Ohio State's Marshon Lattimore ahead of his teammate Gareon Conley, but Cosell offers one reason that teams might give the latter a slight edge.

"I'm very intrigued by Gareon Conley because of his ability to play both outside and in the slot and that's so critical in today's NFL with the fact that cumulatively teams play out of their subpackages 68 percent of the snaps last year in the NFL," Cosell said. "Conley has shown the ability, unlike Lattimore, to play in the slot."

 

Cosell believes that Reuben Foster is one of the "three best prospects" in the entire draft class.

"You have to do your due diligence on Reuben Foster for the off the field, but if you're OK with that, if he's there at 14, I'm drafting him ... I think he fits in any defense and I think if he's there, you take him," Cosell said.

 

 One of the players who has helped himself the most in the pre-draft process is Haason Reddick. He earned one of the top practice player awards at the Senior Bowl then turned in an outstanding performance at the Combine. Some mock drafts now have the former Temple star going in the top 10. However, Cosell notes that Reddick will be making the transition from college defensive end to linebacker in the NFL and that makes his evaluation a little bit trickier.

"I love Reddick. I understand why people are excited about him, but I do think any time you make a position change in addition to making the jump from college football to the NFL there's an added layer that has to be accounted for," Cosell said. "He has an explosiveness to his movement that not a lot of linebackers have."

That being said, Cosell thinks Reddick can play any linebacker position in a 4-3 or a 3-4 alignment.

 

 The offensive line group is not considered strong this year. In fact, Cosell "is more fascinated by the offensive guard position" rather than the tackles. The four prospects who stand out to Cosell are: Forrest Lamp, Dan Feeney, Dorian Johnson, and Isaac Asiata.

9. Dion Dawkins played left tackle at Temple, but projects to guard in the NFL. If Dawkins does move inside, Cosell thinks "he would have a chance to be an All-Pro."

[HTTRDynasty]

Quick feet:

 

 

[Hail2theSkins24]

Joe Mixon- incredible talent but not even touching him in first 4 rounds. Way too much baggage, scary history of DV

[XxSpearheadxX]

@HTTRDynasty Good lord thems some fast feet

[HTTRDynasty]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Greg Cosell is hot and miss for me but here is some of his take on players.  He has an interesting point about Conley which is he can play the slot.  If Conley falls he's an intriguing prospect IMO -- big guy with speed, good character/leader type.  Considering how we get beat in the slot when the Giants move Beckham there and Dallas via Beasley -- he could be a big help.  

 

Most analysts grade Ohio State's Marshon Lattimore ahead of his teammate Gareon Conley, but Cosell offers one reason that teams might give the latter a slight edge.

 

"I'm very intrigued by Gareon Conley because of his ability to play both outside and in the slot and that's so critical in today's NFL with the fact that cumulatively teams play out of their subpackages 68 percent of the snaps last year in the NFL," Cosell said. "Conley has shown the ability, unlike Lattimore, to play in the slot."

 

That's interesting, because I just listened to the April 17th episode of the Move the Sticks podcast with Daniel Jeremiah, Bucky Brooks, and Lance Zierlein.  They were discussing Lattimore in depth and Zierlein brought Conley into the conversation (starts at 12 minutes) and said that he was in love with Conley, then saw him against Michigan and saw him really struggle to cover WRs inside the numbers.  Said Conley had issues staying tied to the routes.  That would suggest he would struggle in the slot.  But who knows, maybe Cosell is right.  I haven't watched much film on him, besides the video below:

 

[SkinsTillIDie]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

I agree, with picking up Brown in FA, Reddick and Foster are not such needs. I also worry about Foster playing at under 230 being able to be effective. Reddick is too small for OLB.

 

Haasan Reddick is athletically similar to Von Miller and Junior Galette, and is exactly the type of pass rusher we need to add to our current group. A 3rd down pass rush of Reddick – Smith – Murphy/Lanier – Kerrigan could be dynamic, an athletic array of power and speed.

 

Haasan Reddick: 6'1, 237 lbs, 32.75" arms, 10.125" hands
40 time -- 4.52
bench -- 24 reps
vertical -- 36.5"
broad jump -- 133"
3 cone -- 7.01
20 yard shuttle -- 4.26

 

Von Miller: 6'3, 246 lbs, 33.5" arms, 9.25" hands
40 time -- 4.53
bench -- 21 reps
vertical -- 37"
broad jump -- 126"
3 cone -- 6.70
20 yard -- 4.06

 

Junior Galette: 6'2, 257 lbs, 33" arms, 9" hands
40 time -- 4.77
bench -- 25 reps
vertical -- 33.5"
broad -- 113"
3 cone -- 7.04
20 yard shuttle -- 4.16

 

 

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Greg Cosell is hot and miss for me but here is some of his take on players.  He has an interesting point about Conley which is he can play the slot.  If Conley falls he's an intriguing prospect IMO -- big guy with speed, good character/leader type.  Considering how we get beat in the slot when the Giants move Beckham there and Dallas via Beasley -- he could be a big help.  

 

Slot corner is sneakily one of our biggest needs, with Josh Norman the only player on the roster who's proven adept at playing the nickel. Breeland and Fuller were both mostly terrible there last year, and with Breeland's contract status and Fuller's + Dunbar's degree of rawness on the boundary-- and with Josh Norman entering his age 30 year -- we need an influx of talent here.

 

Of our 208 third-down snaps, 107 occurred when the opposition needed at least 7 yards. They converted 3rd and 7+s 38.3% of the time. And 46.6% overall for 3rd downs. We badly need an improved pass rush and pass defense. Slot corner has probably garnered 10% of the conversation that nose tackle has on this board, though it's a far more urgent need (and a more important, harder to find position).

 

 

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cosell is a fan of Taco Charlton

"I really like Taco Charlton. He may not be, if you're going to do Wide-9, an exact fit," Cosell said. "I think he can be a very good pass rusher. I think because of his size and length he can move inside as well and become a rusher from the d-tackle position."

 

In time, Charlton also has the potential to play a Justin Smith-type role in Jim Tomsula's defensive line. Athletically comparable as draft prospects:

 

Justin Smith -- 6'4, 267lbs
40 time -- 4.64
bench -- 26 reps
vertical -- 34"
broad jump -- 117"

Taco Charlton -- 6'6, 277lbs, 34.25" arms, 9.75" hands
40 time -- 4.86
bench -- 25 reps
vertical -- 33"
broad jump -- 116"

3 cone -- 7.17
20 yard shuttle -- 4.39

 

An athlete one tier below JJ Watt:

 

JJ Watt -- 6'5, 290 lbs, 34" arms, 11.125" hands
40 time -- 4.84
bench -- 34 reps
vertical -- 37"
broad jump -- 120"
3 cone -- 6.88
20 yard shuttle -- 4.21

 

[Warhead36]

Yeah Reddick is now my #1 choice. I'm reading some things now about Foster having issues with his shoulder. I like him, have been high on him forever, but the last thing we need is another Malcolm Kelly.

[Skinsinparadise]

Cooley has some company about Cook being a good blocker

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2017-nfl-draft-big-board-here-are-the-top-100-prospects-and-whos-up-down/

8. Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State, Jr, 5-10, 210, 4.49

Cook's shuttle times caused consternation at the combine but what timed tests cannot take into account are anticipation and vision, which make Cook such a dynamic runner. Cook possesses soft hands out of the backfield, as well as the toughness and selflessness to block, making him a fit in today's NFL offense. Durability and character concerns will likely push Cook further down the board than my ranking indicates but the three-time 1,000-plus-yard rusher is about as proven on the field as it gets.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Dalvin Cook is just like Keith Marshall?  Jeezus.  People need to let go the idea of Marshall being an impact player.  

 

I'm still crossing my fingers for Reddick.  But I doubt he'll be there.  Come on Brucie, don't let me down.

[Skinsinparadise]

We've had some discussion O line for what its worth, here are the PFF grades 

 

Run blocking

Trent Williams 89

Brandon Scherff: 82.6

Morgan Moses: 82

Shawn Lauvao:  68.7

Spencer Long 61.7

Niles Paul: 70.6

Jordan Reed: 48.9

Vernon Davis 40.3

 

Pass blocking

Trent Williams 90.6

Morgan Moses 84.3

Spencer Long 85.4

Brandon Scherff 82.1

Niles Paul 65.4

Vernon Davis 60.4

Matt Jones 58.5

Jordan Reed 54.3

Chris Thompson 48.7

Rob Kelly 47.9

Shawn Lauvao 47.3

 

60 and above is good.  So using these metrics the O line is a good run blocking line save for the tight ends who stink at it.  It's a good pass blocking O line save for Lauvao and the running backs.

[Dark Acre]

I'm one of those "build the foundation first" types.  I'd prefer to solidify our LG, DL, and ILB situations.  I think secondary will be fine with a decent front 7.  Next year if we really want that flashy non-foundation player, we can trade up for him.  Yeah, it's cool to have a ferrari, but not so much if the garage is falling apart. 

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

We've had some discussion O line for what its worth, here are the PFF grades 

 

Run blocking

Trent Williams 89

Brandon Scherff: 82.6

Morgan Moses: 82

Shawn Lauvao:  68.7

Spencer Long 61.7

Niles Paul: 70.6

Jordan Reed: 48.9

Vernon Davis 40.3

 

Pass blocking

Trent Williams 90.6

Morgan Moses 84.3

Spencer Long 85.4

Brandon Scherff 82.1

Niles Paul 65.4

Vernon Davis 60.4

Matt Jones 58.5

Jordan Reed 54.3

Chris Thompson 48.7

Rob Kelly 47.9

Shawn Lauvao 47.3

 

 

Thanks SiP, sorry to bug you about it.

 

We need a Guard when Jordan Reed is better in pass pro.

[Est.1974]

Would happily take a Moton selection for OG. May have greater needs when we'd have to pick him, another reason I'd like to move back out of 17 in most scenarios other than a potential blue chipper falling out of the top 10.

[nemocystem]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah before Cooley even got to summing him up as Clinton Portis -- his description of Cook reminded me of him.   I watched Cook more than any other prospect but I haven't really tried to analyze him that deeply.  Cook started as my #1 choice, then he fell out with me, now he's inching his way back up there for me.  

 

I think the wild cards relating to what falls our way are the quarterbacks and what the Saints-Colts and to a lesser degree the Eagles do.  The Saints and the Colts needs arguably match our needs well.  Saints seemed to be linked to MLB/RB.  The Colts seemed to be linked also to MLB/RB.  The Eagles seemed to be linked to CB/RB.   If for example the Saints go McCaffrey and the Colts go Cook -- there is a fighting chance Reddick or Foster lands at #17.  On the other hand if the Saints and the Colts go Reddick/Foster.  Then the Eagles might take one of the Rbs.  

 

If all the hype is on the money about McCaffrey, hard for me to see how he gets past Carolina, Saints/Colts and the Eagles.   Cook's the guy more likely to fall.   This draft IMO is more fascinating from our point of view than most because you got so many wildcards in play.  It's unlikely to happen but we've seen some mocks by legitmate draft geeks who have had one of these guys drop to #17: J. Adams, M. Hooker, R. Foster.  If that goes down seems to be a no brainer to take one of those guys.

 

The one thing though I wonder about R. Foster and Reddick is they both seem to be Will MLBs versus Mikes.  And Zach Brown seems to be a Will.   So how would that all mesh?

 

Mostly agreed..though I'm not sold on Cook, don't think I'd be upset.  Just apprehensive until he proves his issues to not be so.

 

As for the LB situation...it's frankly why i say **** it, & if McCaffrey, or another super stud doesn't fall...just go ahead, & grab Cunningham.  He's solid, he's a MILB all day, he will start day 1, & ZB can excel at the WILB role.

[nemocystem]

When i watch OSU film, 2 guys pop more than anyone else...Gareon Conley, & Raekwon McMillan.  Hooker has a few highlight plays, but he's not flying around making tackle after tackle like Adams is.  Lattimore gives you good film when the ball is going his way.  Conleu just keeps popping up like: "wait...who was...man..Conley again!"

 

Also....

 

So...let's assume Reddick is the pick...

 

Are we looking at trading Kerrigan (high contract, duplication rushing from the left), & moving back into the 2nd or 3rd?  Or are we going to play "Let's Change Your Position, Again!"

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, nemocystem said:

Mostly agreed..though I'm not sold on Cook, don't think I'd be upset.  Just apprehensive until he proves his issues to not be so.

 

As for the LB situation...it's frankly why i say **** it, & if McCaffrey, or another super stud doesn't fall...just go ahead, & grab Cunningham.  He's solid, he's a MILB all day, he will start day 1, & ZB can excel at the WILB role.

 

Spent some time looking at buzz about McCaffrey and Cook.   The fan base and some of the local media obsessed with McCaffrey seems to be the Eagles -- they seem convinced he's going there.  And for Cook, its the Tampa Bay Bucs, they seem convinced he's going to them.

 

My thing is I don't want Cook or McCaffrey in Philly.