2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

There's a lot of players I like obviously as I've done more research/read more articles. I do like Bowser, but at #17 that might be too rich. CBS has him at #38. Matt Miller didn't have him in his Top 100 in early March (Although he admitted that his rankings change as he watches more tape and that was early on). I would love him in the 2nd, or with a trade-back ...

 

I do think we should try and grab Ryan Anderson from Bama in the 3rd if we fail to get an Edge in the 1st or 2nd. Actually if we go RB in the 1st ... I wouldn't mind a Dalvin Tomlinson in the 2nd, Anderson in the 3rd and someone like Blair Brown in the 4th or 5th, although that goes against what I posted earlier about "needing an impact, early round ILB and not another mid-round project" ... but a lot of folks seem to like Brown. Throw in G/C Pocic or CB Sidney Jones in the 4th (IF either is there) and I think you'd successfully hit each "hole" with each pick being a BPA through 5. 

1. RB Cook/McCaffrey

2. DL 3Tech Tomlinson

3. EDGE Anderson

4. G/C Pocic

4. CB Jones

5. ILB Brown

 

I'd swap a couple things.

1. McDowwell

2. Mixon

3. Anderson

4 Pocic

4 Vanderdoes

[Skinsinparadise]

I've gone back and forth on McDowell but I've never liked the idea of picking him, I haven't hated it either.    He definitely would not be my preferred choice at #17.  Main thing which makes it acceptable is he's a talented guy on a unit with so little talent.   But too many red flags IMO on him.

 

From NFL Draft 2017 Preview, Nolan Nawrocki.  

Quoting a scout

"McDowell's interview was one of the most difficult to sit through.  There was a lot of blame for everyone else.   It was very self-centered,  It confirmed what you see on tape.  He is a boom-or-bust guy -- there is no in between. How far does he slide before someone says this guy is too big, too long and too athletic not to draft? Some coach will be pounding the table saying, "I know I can change him.  I'm glad it just won't be us."

[JamesMadisonSkins]

21 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I'd swap a couple things.

1. McDowwell

2. Mixon

3. Anderson

4 Pocic

4 Vanderdoes

I tried to emulate just now with a "going for this one time, see how close I can get" with FanSpeak. Traded 1.17 to Cleveland for 2.1, 2.20 and 4.1 ... in order ...

2.1: Joe Mixon, RB Oklahoma

2.17: Malik McDowell, DT MSU

2.20: Ryan Anderson, EDGE Bama (Bowser also there at pick)

3.17: Blair Brown, ILB Ohio

4.1: Ethan Pocic, G/C LSU

4.7: Chad Hansen, WR Cal

4.16: Eddie Vanderdoes, NT UCLA (also could have taken 3T Jaleen Johnson, who I like better, but given McDowell is a 5T and Johnson is a 3T ... Vanderdoes is more of a 1T/NT ... but I have seen where J Johnson could play 1T, anyway ... carrying on)

5.10 Eddie Jackson, S Bama

6.17: Deatrich Wise, EDGE Arkansas

6.25: Jerod Evans, QB VT

 

Ended it there ... but you get the point. I used Matt Miller's most recent draft board, and he's kind of my favorite right now. He's higher on Anderson than Bowser. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

27 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I'd swap a couple things.

1. McDowwell

2. Mixon

3. Anderson

4 Pocic

4 Vanderdoes

Also, McDowell was there into the 2nd where I got him at 2.17 ... Ryan Anderson, in previous Matt Miller Board based mocks was going late 2nd, so I grabbed him at 2.20 ... Pocic and Vanderdoes were both there in the 4th round to take ... BUT, Blair Brown went late 3rd with Miller's Board in a lot of mocks i saw, hence why I went for him at 3.17 ... didn't think he'd make it to the 4.1 pick. Either way, I got all of those guys. Now, without the trade-down to get the 2.20 and 4.1 picks,  I maybe go Mixon-Anderson-Brown-Pocic-Jaleel Johnson and touch up a NT like Vincent Taylor in the 5th. I wouldn't mind waiting to the 4th and 5th to get DL if I felt comfortable I'd come away with Jaleel Johnson from Iowa in the 4th and Vincent Taylor from OK State in the 5th ... allowing a RB-EDGE-ILB-G start to the draft. Of course that's the hardest part about being a GM, you can't necessarily wait on a guy you love being there and not having a backup plan if he's gone. So hopefully we have multiple guys in each round that we are comfortable with. The outcome of the draft is likely nowhere near what I listed above haha

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Also, McDowell was there into the 2nd where I got him at 2.17 ... Ryan Anderson, in previous Matt Miller Board based mocks was going late 2nd, so I grabbed him at 2.20 ... Pocic and Vanderdoes were both there in the 4th round to take ... BUT, Blair Brown went late 3rd with Miller's Board in a lot of mocks i saw, hence why I went for him at 3.17 ... didn't think he'd make it to the 4.1 pick. Either way, I got all of those guys. Now, without the trade-down to get the 2.20 and 4.1 picks,  I maybe go Mixon-Anderson-Brown-Pocic-Jaleel Johnson and touch up a NT like Vincent Taylor in the 5th. I wouldn't mind waiting to the 4th and 5th to get DL if I felt comfortable I'd come away with Jaleel Johnson from Iowa in the 4th and Vincent Taylor from OK State in the 5th ... allowing a RB-EDGE-ILB-G start to the draft. 

 

The only thing is that you are assuming you are able to trade down. That might work out great, but you have to have a trade partner. I've run that mock before, and it's way too easy to trade down on it. It's probably more realistic if you run it without trading down.

 

Also, I would hate your 2nd senario. Taylor is not a NFL NT and if that who you plan to go with, with no other real viable starters?

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

@HTTRDynasty

 

It's funny you mention that. When you consider that until 2016 Trent was considered a bust and the only year he was decent he gets busted for PEDs. So, I'm not sure how that applies. I suppose he was a safe pick, but he's been a role player at best, and with his PED bust, I have a felling he'll go back to being invisible.

Trent wasn't a bust at all.  He played the run well.  Busts don't play the run well.  The problem is, there was no way he was going to live up to his college sack stats and he could've easily been taken in the 3rd.  I live in S.F., and while I don't follow Stanford much, you can't avoid coverage esp. when they're doing well.  When we drafted Murphy, my reaction was, "WTH?  Why?  2nd round?"  But not a bust.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

How likely do you guys think it is Pocic lasts until the 4th round?  If he's already gone, would you take Elflein at that spot?

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Trent wasn't a bust at all.  He played the run well.  Busts don't play the run well.  The problem is, there was no way he was going to live up to his college sack stats and he could've easily been taken in the 3rd.  I live in S.F., and while I don't follow Stanford much, you can't avoid coverage esp. when they're doing well.  When we drafted Murphy, my reaction was, "WTH?  Why?  2nd round?"  But not a bust.

 

He was picked in the 2nd round, and as a result of being a rotational guy, with only one good season that has the cloud of PED's on it, that makes him a bust.

If he had been a 4th round selection, it would have been seen as good value. If he had been a 6th round selection, great value.

 

But you said it best. 'WTF? Why? 2nd round?"

 

Exactly

 

32 and 33 tackles his first 2 years. Not what you want from a 2nd round LB.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, RedskinsInFebruary said:

How likely do you guys think it is Pocic lasts until the 4th round?  If he's already gone, would you take Elflein at that spot?

He falls to the 4th regardless of the draft board I use in Fanspeak but I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone in the 3rd. There are questions about his ability to play guard which might limit him to being drafted by teams that need a center. 

[clskinsfan]

Wow. Havent been in this thread for a while. Been dealing with the ES Draft. But I cant believe the love for Mcdowell in here. The guy doesnt love the game. And it shows in his tape. He disappears for LONG stretches during games. Just going through the motions. Lazy play. I would pass on him in ANY round. The guy has bust written all over him.

 

Edit: I will add that before I started doing my draft prep and watching tape. I had Mcdowell rated very highly. Not any more.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Wow. Havent been in this thread for a while. Been dealing with the ES Draft. But I cant believe the love for Mcdowell in here. The guy doesnt love the game. And it shows in his tape. He disappears for LONG stretches during games. Just going through the motions. Lazy play. I would pass on him in ANY round. The guy has bust written all over him.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Gil Brandt top 150.  Here are some excerpts from players being discussed here of late 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800363/native/hot-150-gil-brandts-topranked-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft?akapp=mobile&akview=phone&akvideo=on

 

Christian McCaffrey

School: Stanford | Year: Junior. Good NFL bloodlines: father, Ed, played 13 years in the NFL and has threeSuper Bowl rings; brother, Max, is on the Packers roster. Was used in many capacities. Tough matchup for opponents. Can run, catch and return kicks. Has outstanding work habits and is an exceptional athlete (37.5-inch vertical and 6.57-second three-cone at combine). Great character. Outstanding, but small, hands (9 inches). Needs to increase upper-body strength.

 

Dalvin Cook

School: Florida State | Year: Junior. Became Seminoles' all-time leading rusher in yards (4,464) and touchdowns (46) in just three seasons. Exceptional vision as a runner, a trait Bill Parcells believes is the most important for a running back. Has strength and is tough. Plays fast. Good but not great hands, and some questions linger about his pass-protection skills. Has had some off-field problems in past, but seems like a good kid when you meet him. Has had three shoulder surgeries since high school.

 

Reuben Foster

School: Alabama | Year: Senior. Played regularly as a true freshman in 2013. Won Butkus Award in 2016 when he finished with 115 tackles. Very tough, competitive player. Very athletic. Was targeted 40 times in 2016 and opponents caught the ball 23 times. No one plays harder, but style of play has led to injuries; he's currently rehabbing from shoulder surgery. Can he stay healthy at 230 pounds? Has overcome a lot in his life to get where he is today.

 

Malik McDowell

School: Michigan State | Year: Junior. Three-year player for the Spartans who had 22 starts in two years. Missed three games with an ankle injury at end of 2016 season. Very athletic. Plays tall; difficult to change this. Only 20 years old. Very immature and did not interview well at the combine. Can run down opposing players. Had just 1.5 sacks and 17 pressures in nine games in 2016. Classic boom-or-bust player.

 

Chris Wormley

School: Michigan | Year: Redshirt senior. Redshirted in 2012 and finished with 30 starts. Team captain. Named Michigan's best defensive lineman in each of past two seasons. Had 18 career sacks. Terrific pro day; sister, mother, and grandmother all traveled from Toledo to attend. Will be good, steady player for team that drafts him.

 

Hasson Reddick

School: Temple | Year: Redshirt senior. Came to Temple as a defensive back walk-on, and redshirted his first season. Played linebacker in 2013 before settling in at defensive end in 2014. Had breakout season in 2016 with 10.5 sacks and 29 pressures. Good quickness and burst. Very tough and competitive. Biggest question: Is he better with his hand in the ground or as a 3-4 'backer? Wore No. 7 at Temple; defensive players are given single-digit numbers for toughness. Had off-campus fight in 2015 and was able to avoid a trial by agreeing to be placed in a diversionary program. Played 121 special teams snaps.

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Wow. Havent been in this thread for a while. Been dealing with the ES Draft. But I cant believe the love for Mcdowell in here. The guy doesnt love the game. And it shows in his tape. He disappears for LONG stretches during games. Just going through the motions. Lazy play. I would pass on him in ANY round. The guy has bust written all over him.

 

Edit: I will add that before I started doing my draft prep and watching tape. I had Mcdowell rated very highly. Not any more.

 

 

Leonard Fournette. Openly admits he doesn't love football. That it's just 'a job' to him. He doesn't live it. Read a couple of scouts say that doesn't sit well with them. 

 

Now he's 100% professional when he's at work. But where do you draw the line on 'desire' and 'love for the game?'

 

Hail. 

[clskinsfan]

22 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Leonard Fournette. Openly admits he doesn't love football. That it's just 'a job' to him. He doesn't live it. Read a couple of scouts say that doesn't sit well with them. 

 

Now he's 100% professional when he's at work. But where do you draw the line on 'desire' and 'love for the game?'

 

Hail. 

 

Fair question. Personally, if I was a GM I wouldnt draft a single player that didnt love the game. But that is just me. And in this comparison (Fournette and Mcdowell) there isnt a comparison at all. One is the best RB in the draft. The other is an inconsistent player that shows an occasional flash on tape.

[Morneblade]

I did a quick search, and could not find anything like that about Fournette. The closest thing I saw was that some scouts thought he was more into his own hype that playing football. But nothing where he came out and said anything like that.

 

And going by the ways he plays? He plays harder than most guys I've seen in a while. I would not worry too much about it.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

9 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Fair question. Personally, if I was a GM I wouldnt draft a single player that didnt love the game. But that is just me. And in this comparison (Fournette and Mcdowell) there isnt a comparison at all. One is the best RB in the draft. The other is an inconsistent player that shows an occasional flash on tape.

 

 

 

 

Well, as much as I disagree with your assertion that Fournette is the best RB in the draft, on pure talent alone I have McDowell a top 5 overall player in the entire class. Which I'm sure you'll disagree with. Just as you'll probably disagree that I can't give a definitive top 10 as outside of the very top 5 or 6 guys it's pretty much much of a muchness of very good, but very similar quality right through the top 60 or so players. 

 

The immature issues don't concern me as much with a 20 year old straight 3 year Junior. 

 

I'd be made up personally that the Redskins were getting one heck of a talented football player if he was the selection at 17 who is versatile to enough to play all over the defensive front. 

 

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

I did a quick search, and could not find anything like that about Fournette. The closest thing I saw was that some scouts thought he was more into his own hype that playing football. But nothing where he came out and said anything like that.

 

And going by the ways he plays? He plays harder than most guys I've seen in a while. I would not worry too much about it.

 

 

 

 

Combine interviews. Search harder. We aren't making things up just for the Hell of it. 

 

In fact thinking on  I can give you one ex-scout you could tweet from Dallas who was linked earlier in a quoted tweet you could ask direct. 

 

Hail. 

[HTTRDynasty]

7 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Fair question. Personally, if I was a GM I wouldnt draft a single player that didnt love the game. But that is just me. And in this comparison (Fournette and Mcdowell) there isnt a comparison at all. One is the best RB in the draft. The other is an inconsistent player that shows an occasional flash on tape.

 

Did you watch McDowell's 2015 tape? 

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Well, as much as I disagree with your assertion that Fournette is the best RB in the draft, on pure talent alone I have McDowell a top 5 overall player in the entire class. Which I'm sure you'll disagree with. Just as you'll probably disagree that I can't give a definitive top 10 as outside of the very top 5 or 6 guys it's pretty much much of a muchness of very good, but very similar quality right through the top 60 or so players. 

 

The immature issues don't concern me as much with a 20 year old straight 3 year Junior. 

 

I'd be made up personally that the Redskins were getting one heck of a talented football player if he was the selection at 17 who is versatile to enough to play all over the defensive front. 

 

 

Combine interviews. Search harder. We aren't making things up just for the Hell of it. 

 

Hail. 

 

Then drop a link, or do you think you are above such a thing?

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

Well, as much as I disagree with your assertion that Fournette is the best RB in the draft, on pure talent alone I have McDowell a top 5 overall player in the entire class.

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

Then drop a link, or do you think you are above such a thing?

 

 

Since when did people have to do your leg work for you because you can't take things at face value?

 

See above, tweet Broaddus. Then work out from there. 

 

Hail. 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Re: the 'I'd just get Mixon in the 2nd' talk.

 

I think there is going to be a few disappointed people because if teams are just taking Mixon out of 1st round consideration only...then I highly doubt he makes it to the Skins 2nd round pick.

 

Here are the teams, that pick before the Skins, that could take Mixon in the 2nd (obviously if they don't take a RB in the 1st):

CLE - Starter

JAX - Starter

NYJ - Split time with Forte...then take over in a year.

CAR - Starter

NO - Split time with Ingram...then take over in a year.

PHI - Upgrade

IND - Split time with Gore...then take over in a year.

BAL - Starter

[mhd24]

At this point, the only 3 guys I want at 17 (whom could be obtainable) are Foster, Reddick, or Cook.  Anyone else seems like a reach (unless we take a corner).  

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Did you watch McDowell's 2015 tape? 

Yes. Thats why I had him rated highly before doing study on this draft. His 2014 tape wasnt awful either. They had him lose weight this year and played him all over the line. Maybe that actually had a negative effect on him? The bottom line for me was his tape was actually pretty poor this year. Yes. He shows flashes. But I dont even have a first round grade on him.

[Morneblade]

Just now, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Since when did people have to do your leg work for you because you can't take things at face value?

 

See above, tweet Broaddus. Then work out from there. 

 

Hail. 

 

Because when you make a statement it's your job to support it. That's why. And no, I don't need to take what you say as pure fact, especially when I could not find anything to support it, which is why is why I said what I said.

 

Now, if I had wanted to be snarky, I just would have done so there. Instead, I said I could not find anything, and basically asked for more info on your source. That's it. And I don't use twitter, so there's that.

 

You, of course have to get indignant. Shocker.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Because when you make a statement it's your job to support it. That's why. And no, I don't need to take what you say as pure fact, especially when I could not find anything to support it, which is why is why I said what I said.

 

Now, if I had wanted to be snarky, I just would have done so there. Instead, I said I could not find anything, and basically asked for more info on your source. That's it. And I don't use twitter, so there's that.

 

You, of course have to get indignant. Shocker.

 

 

 

Mate, it's neither my nor anyone elses' 'job' to do F-all for you because you chose to be a skeptical so and so. 

 

You want to find something? Dig like anyone else has to. 

 

And the hypocrisy of you accusing someone else of being snarky given your recent previous is not a good road to travel down. As exemplified by the way you 'asked' for the extra information right there. 

 

Hail.