2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Just now, SkinsPassion4Life said:

I agree with Cooley again.....No for Takk, Harris and McDowell....Taco is a consideration, but better suited for a 4-3 DE

 

Charlton is nowhere near ready to play consistently the pros. And we need players that can contribute now. 

 

I'd take Wormley from Michigan in a heartbeat over a guy who you're looking at improving the next 2/3 years personally. We just aren't in a position to wait on very good, young potential that would cost a valuable high pick. 

 

Hail 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

What would either one bring that is markedly different than what we have currently?

Seriously? We have no dynamic threat at RB. Teams don't game plan against our running game. We don't see 7/8 in the box ever.

 

I dont want to draft a RB this year at all. I don't.  Its widely known I'd be happy drafting 10 guys in the front 7 alone.

 

But you can't tell me a dynamic RB who catches like a WR on our roster doesn't change things.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Just now, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Charlton is nowhere near ready to play consistently the pros. And we need players that can contribute now. 

 

I'd take Wormley from Michigan in a heartbeat over a guy who you're looking at improving the next 2/3 years personally. We just aren't in a position to wait on very good, young potential that would cost a valuable high pick. 

 

Hail 

 

I tend to agree...Taco is about #6 or 7 on my list at 17........McCaffrey, Reddick, Cook, Davis, Foster

[nemocystem]

One of the things i love about Malik...watch both the ND, & WIS games to see a ) how often he lines up at 5, or edge in obvious pass downs....then watch him abuse 2 consensus 1st round LTs en route to the QB.  Violent hands, convert speed to power, utilize several moves.

 

The most underrated ability for Malik is his ability to get skinny with power, & split double teams to create penetration.  It's rather uncanny.

 

Also...Cunningham rushes the QB quite successfully as well on obvious passing downs.

 

I think the people not wanting McCaffrey at this point have just made up their minds that they aren't gonna like him.  It just comes down to a difference of preference.  I also think that should we draft him, that tune changes real fast after year 1.  Would be willing to bet on it should he end up being the pick.

 

I'm backing away from Peppers because:

 

1) we signed Swearinger for more than 1 year.

 

2) we have Cravens

 

3) he doesn't play CB.

 

4) there will be too many other high quality players available at positions of more pressing need.  

 

Would not be shocked if he were the pick, but not holding my breath.

 

As for edge rusher in this draft?  I say don't force it.  Just like QB in this draft.....if you like the guys in the draft, & you have a QB room that will enable some lengthened grooming,  then sure...grab one of the QBs this year.  If I'm looking for a franchise QB this year?  I would trade away 2017 assets to acquire early 2018 draft picks so i can do whatever is necessary to grab one of several coming out next year.

 

Even if we traded away KC...i wouldn't spend a single pick on QB this year before round 5.   This is not the year of the QB,  or the edge rusher.  Don't force it Redskins.

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Seriously? We have no dynamic threat at RB. Teams don't game plan against our running game. We don't see 7/8 in the box ever.

 

I dont want to draft a RB this year at all. I don't.  Its widely known I'd be happy drafting 10 guys in the front 7 alone.

 

But you can't tell me a dynamic RB who catches like a WR on our roster doesn't change things.

 

We have Chis Thompson.

 

Teams don't game plan against the run, because we don't run the ball that much. That's a play calling issue. That, and we're a lousing run blocking team. If you REALLY want to improve the run game, draft a LG and get the rest of the guys to block like the Hogs used to. Right now, as a unit, the run blocking is soft. It's sad.

 

And I'm not pulling Crowder for a RB, sorry.

 

Having a RB that runs better routes that Chris Thompson is such a marginal impact overall, to blow a first round pick on that is stupid.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

I tend to agree...Taco is about #6 or 7 on my list at 17........McCaffrey, Reddick, Cook, Davis, Foster

 

I am not too far off this list except McCaffrey isn't my top choice.  I think you will like Cooley's take on things.  He's hyped Reddick and Foster in a previous segment a couple of weeks ago saying that's who he'd target and might even try to leapfrog the Colts to get one of the two players.  And as I said he seemed to hint at the end of a segment today that he loves both Cook and McCaffrey but will be going over their film tomorrow.  He hasn't talked Davis, yet. 

[nemocystem]

19 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

What would either one bring that is markedly different than what we have currently?

Red zone options, for starters

[Morneblade]

Just now, nemocystem said:

Red zone options for starters

 

Enlighten me.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

8 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

I tend to agree...Taco is about #6 or 7 on my list at 17........McCaffrey, Reddick, Cook, Davis, Foster

 

I would add TJ Watt to the list ahead of Taco.....but I would not take any of these pass rushers at 17....we need as close to a sure thing as possible when drafting that high.

[Morneblade]

Just now, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

I would add TJ Watt to the list ahead of Taco.....but I would not take any of these pass rushers at 17....we need as close to a sure thing as possible when drafting that high.

 

Yeah, Taco is not a good scheme fit for us.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

1 minute ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

I would add TJ Watt to the list ahead of Taco.....but I would not take any of these pass rushers at 17....we need as close to a sure thing as possible when drafting that high.

 

 

I'd take Takk and not blink. But you'd be waiting on him until October with his shoulder which isn't ideal at all in our 'need now!' situation. 

 

Also, to add to your fears on Peppers, I'd look at Louisianna Techs Xavier Woods lower down before entertaining him. (Peppers is a RB. Stand by it.). Everything Peppers wishes he was in a DB. 

 

Hail. 

[nemocystem]

Having a matchup weapon who can break DB ankles with route running skills coming out of the backgield vs just a guy who is fast & can catch a bit opens up that tiny 10 yard box with options.

 

See: Rams with Bruce/Holt/Hakim/Faulk, or Falcons with Freeman/Julio.  SD when they had LT....Seahwaks with Lynch out if the backfield....Bell with Steelers.

 

If you have to worry about the guys outside, & then you have a RB matched up 1v1 LB...McCaffrey is going to win that matchup 9/10...or run it vs an open defense that's worried about the outside with much better vision, & patience than CT.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Maybe draft Peppers and make him a two way player...RB/S + Kick Returner......Nah

[Morneblade]

8 minutes ago, nemocystem said:

Having a matchup weapon who can break DB ankles with route running skills coming out of the backgield vs just a guy who is fast & can catch a bit opens up that tiny 10 yard box with options.

 

See: Rams with Bruce/Holt/Hakim/Faulk, or Falcons with Freeman/Julio.  SD when they had LT....Seahwaks with Lynch out if the backfield....Bell with Steelers.

 

If you have to worry about the guys outside, & then you have a RB matched up 1v1 LB...McCaffrey is going to win that matchup 9/10...or run it vs an open defense that's worried about the outside.

 

So, you're saying that Chris Thompson is not a huge task for a LB to cover? That's insulting to Thompson. He's quicker that McCaffery.

 

I hope play calling will improve this year, so that we will actually spread out and try to run the ball, instead of always spreading out and passing, or always going jumbo and running. And I think the issues with running are not the RB's but the OL. LG is bad, and the rest are not physical enough. We don't move the LoS.

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

10 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Maybe draft Peppers and make him a two way player...RB/S + Kick Returner......Nah

 

I think that's been most of his problem ironically. No defined position. Not only has he been stuck with the safety/ LB duties at Michigan, he had to know the O and sit in on their meetings along with teams. His head must of been kettled. (Ready to explode for any non-Scousers out there.). 

 

IMHO, to get any success if you draft him, you need a defined plan from Day 1 of what you want to do with him. Not one where you find out on the fly trying him alll over. 

 

Exceptional athlete. And a pretty darn good football player with his natural instincts. I just don't know where he fits best. But as he's undersized for a LB, and below average and unreliable in coverage along with being an average tackler, I wouldn't want him on my D. Just a personal opinion but his instincts with a ball in his hands in space, either returning or when they did use him as a RB, even out of the wildcat ..... I really think you could develop on what he was in HS there. 

 

But as far as at 17 ..... NAH!!!!!

 

Hail. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF is running a live mock draft.  I saw the plug for the Redskins O line from them, so I just went through their grades.  On their metrics, Redskins have an above average run blocking team as for the O line.  According to them, Lauvao's weakness is pass blocking not run blocking.   But the TE's all grade poorly as run blockers, exception being Niles Paul.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-live-seven-round-mock-draft/

17. Washington Redskins

Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State

There is not a player in the draft that improves the Redskins’ outlook on Day 1 more than Dalvin Cook. His vision and knack for hitting well-timed creases on stretch runs are a perfect match for what Washington wants to do in a largely zone-running scheme. Cook now gets to run behind a much better offensive line than he did in college, which should allow the back with the highest 2016 FBS elusive rating more time and space to operate. — Trevor Lynch, @PFF_Lynch

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Well arguably the best tackler the entire class. One of many guys I'm amazed hasn't been talked about in here who'd be a superb addition to or LB corp. 

 

Hail. 

 

Have been a few articles out about him. Fourth round range, great 2016 season, limited coverage experience, reminds me of Daniels who we already have. Could be a solid addition, maybe if he slipped a round or so.

 

Also, What range is Demarcus Walker likely to land in anyone? I'm thinking before our second...

[Morneblade]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

PFF is running a live mock draft.  I saw the plug for the Redskins O line from them, so I just went through their grades.  On their metrics, Redskins have an above average run blocking team as for the O line.  According to them, Lauvao's weakness is pass blocking not run blocking.   But the TE's all grade poorly as run blockers, exception being Niles Paul.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-live-seven-round-mock-draft/

17. Washington Redskins

Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State

There is not a player in the draft that improves the Redskins’ outlook on Day 1 more than Dalvin Cook. His vision and knack for hitting well-timed creases on stretch runs are a perfect match for what Washington wants to do in a largely zone-running scheme. Cook now gets to run behind a much better offensive line than he did in college, which should allow the back with the highest 2016 FBS elusive rating more time and space to operate. — Trevor Lynch, @PFF_Lynch

 

There were a lot of these last year. OL got blown up and he had to make a 2 yard gain out of a 2 yard loss. And I don't even want to talk about how bad it was in short yardage.

"He had some of the greatest two-yard runs that I’ve seen. He gets back to the line of scrimmage, he keeps his feet moving, he protects the ball [and] he’s going to get better in pass protection.”

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Not-Once-Did-Robert-Kelley-Look-Out-Of-Place-In-Starting-Lineup/bed361dd-8237-4efc-9aaf-a8a638178630

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

10 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Have been a few articles out about him. Fourth round range, great 2016 season, limited coverage experience, reminds me of Daniels who we already have. Could be a solid addition, maybe if he slipped a round or so.

 

.....

1

 

Here's my thoughts FWIW having been high enough on him to make him a priority going into our mock. He's only going the mid-rounds down to being a little undersized. But he plays WAY bigger than that: 

Hail. 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

The best thing you could say about Fat Rob was that he rarely lost yards...and If we drafted McCaffrey or Cook, I'm sure there would be some minus runs when Long or Lavauo get blown up in the backfield....However; there were a lot of huge runs that were out there that Kelley was not going to give you; that McCaffrey and Cook will.

 

You also have to look at the passing game....and let's be honest, Jay wants to throw the ball...no matter what he says...having an excellent 3 down RB who can catch is a major addition....Linebackers have to account for that.

 

One more thing....the notion that our offense is good enough is not true..we were 12th in scoring....we don't score enough...part of the reason was the RB position.

 

[Koolblue13]

Lol @ chris ****ing Thompson. Im glad we have him, but hes not an unupgradable player by a long shot.

 

Before this season, when Jay was calling plays, we ran it more than most teams.

[Veryoldschool]

I don't know which OL or DL guys to draft in the first couple of rounds the Skins should take but that is what they should do.  Getting tougher up front should be the priority in the draft.  Unfortunately Danny & his hand puppet Bruce will be making the calls so I'll be shocked if it goes well even if they pick OL or DL guys, they are bound to pick the clown show guy who shows up at 350 and runs his mouth.

 

Danny with or without his sock puppet just don't have it in him make a smart pick.  I just hope Danny doesn't go full on retard and draft Deshaun Watson to gear up for a next generation messiah jersey sell bonanza.  Danny needs a new bro and Deshaun Watson might prove an irresistible temptation especially if Danny has to lean over skis and trade up.  Nothing like a bold, high risk, low reward trade to get give Danny a chubby.

 

Quiet, hard working, keep his nose clean and work his tail off road grading OL like Brandon Scherff are too bland for Danny.  The OL needs at least 1 more like Scherff but I don't think it happens, too boring for Danny.  How many jerseys will a LG or Center sell?  None, so if Snyder doesn't go full on Deshaun Watshedoing I think he picks  a DL who will slam buckets of chicken all over NOVA but very few QB before eating his way out of the League.

 

If Snyder goes for lineman in the first round I am almost certain it will be a DL who will prove to be a low performing loud mouth,  you can bank on it.  If 10 DL prospects were standing before Bill Belichick and Dan Snyder I think you can pretty much count on Snyder drafting the first guy Belichick would have eliminated from consideration. 

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

There were a lot of these last year. OL got blown up and he had to make a 2 yard gain out of a 2 yard loss. And I don't even want to talk about how bad it was in short yardage.

"He had some of the greatest two-yard runs that I’ve seen. He gets back to the line of scrimmage, he keeps his feet moving, he protects the ball [and] he’s going to get better in pass protection.”

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Not-Once-Did-Robert-Kelley-Look-Out-Of-Place-In-Starting-Lineup/bed361dd-8237-4efc-9aaf-a8a638178630

 

The Washington Redskins remain happy with their running backs. They also remain on the lookout for someone at that position who could do even more.

Redskins coach Jay Gruden has said this before and he said it again earlier this week at the scouting combine in Indianapolis. He likes Rob Kelley, he likes Chris Thompson and Mack Brown, and he still says Matt Jones can develop.

That said ...

“When you get a great one, it makes a team different,” Gruden told reporters, via ESPN reporter Alden Gonzalez. “And it takes a team from a pretender to an immediate contender. We’re all looking for that.”

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30373/jay-gruden-likes-redskins-running-backs-but-great-one-available

 

 I am ok with drafting a running back and ok with not drafting a running back.

 

Yeah Robert Kelley is a gritty-tough runner.    People focus a bunch on Kirk failing in the Carolina/NY Giants games -- but the guy IMO who made both games tough for Kirk was Kelley.  Kelley was shut down in both of those games.   2.8 yards a carry for 33 yards against the Giants.  Less than a yard a carry for 10 yards against Carolina.  The "cowgirls comment" he made before the Thanksgiving game was backed up with a 2.6 YPC, 37 yards performance.   He had one 100 yard game during the season and that one was mainly about that one break loose long run at the end of that game.   If we want to find the last 100 yard game Kelley had before that one -- you'd have to go back to his high school days.

 

I don't like beating up on Robert Kelley.  He really could be the goods.  But I don't see what we saw last season where we can say we can all relax, we got our stud running back in house.  I watched a lot of Dalvin Cook and he at times is unreal as for being explosive.  I never get that vibe watching Robert Kelley.  

 

I think Jay's comment above sums it well, a great running back makes a team different.   The implication clearly is a great running back isn't on this roster right now. As for Jay not running the ball.  In Cincy they were middle of the pack as for their running game -- YPG, etc.   Some expect with Jay taking over the play calling that they will run the ball more than McVay choose to do.

32 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

You also have to look at the passing game....and let's be honest, Jay wants to throw the ball...no matter what he says...having an excellent 3 down RB who can catch is a major addition....Linebackers have to account for that.

 

One more thing....the notion that our offense is good enough is not true..we were 12th in scoring....we don't score enough...part of the reason was the RB position.

 

 

McCaffrey arguably has good hands even by receiver standards.  Dalvin Cook could go on a route and catch a 45 yard pass.  I get Kelley was ok as a receiver in college but this season he struggled catching 3-5 yard screen passes. 

[Morneblade]

15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Lol @ chris ****ing Thompson. Im glad we have him, but hes not an unupgradable player by a long shot.

 

Before this season, when Jay was calling plays, we ran it more than most teams.

 

Sure, he's an upgradable player. Outside or Trent Williams, who isnt?

But, outside of Fournette, there isn't a RB that is a slam dunk to be dominant. And Fournette is not going to be there.

Now, if you want to blow a (and I do me blow) a 1st round pick on McCaffery, I think that's a dumb move. He's not a great back. And I could care less how well he runs routes, to be honest. If we didn't have Reed or Crowder, I might care. But we have both, so I really don't. Because both those guys are better, and I will not pull them off the field to get a RB in the slot.

 

If I thought he was the 2nd coming of Eric Dickerson, I'd be frothing at the mouth to get him. But I see him as the 2nd coming of Toby Gerhart. Overhyped white Rb from Stanford that is going to be a bust in the NFL.

 

I don't even want Cook at 17, and I think he's twice the RB McCaffery is.

[Koolblue13]

Yeah, I've really started think RB/CB are our first pick. Maybe even second too.