2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, CTskin said:

All week I've been pumped about the idea of "Wednesday Caps, Thursday Draft, Friday Caps & Draft..." Just last night I realized I was off by a week, idiot.

I walked into the bar I work at and the lounge TV has the draft special ESPN is doing on and I flipped for a minute.

 

Then I realized it was fake and also ridiculous. We get Hooker.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Cooks combine was horrific and combine's, specifically 3 cone, agility/burst related drills plus minimum speed requirements have a huge correlation with success, add in the shoulder and the off field concerns and i have heard and believe that he will fall, quite a bit. Fournette and McCaffrey go top 15-20, Fournette as high as 4th potentially, then Mixon and Cook are the round 2 values, though Mixon could keep falling. 

 

I spend way too much time on the draft -- watch at least two hours on it a day, spend hours on twitter, listen to podcasts, read every mock or just about everyone.  It's a fun addiction for me.    And I'll confidently say on the aggregate, the majority of draft geeks aren't saying that Cook is dropping into the 2nd round -- just a few stragglers do.    

 

Cook had a good pro day.  Focusing on the combine is old news.   McCaffrey is according to many draft geeks at the moment is going top 15, some say top 10.  According to some, Fournette is wanted by Carolina badly.  Jax might take him.  Carolina might trade up. 

 

http://gridironnow.com/unnamed-nfl-scout-calls-dalvin-cook-pro-day-f-ing-special/

Unnamed NFL scout calls Dalvin Cook pro day ‘special’

Florida State running back Dalvin Cook left a strong impression on an unnamed NFL scout with his pro day workout last week.

 

The scout reportedly had Cook timed in the mid 4.4s on his second 40-yard dash attempt and called his drill work “f–king special,” Bleacher Report reported.

Cook looked to bounce back from what many deemed a disappointing performance at the NFL Scouting Combine. He is projected as a probable first-round pick.

 

In January, NFL Network’s Bucky Brooks said he believed Cook was the top running back prospect in the 2017 NFL Draft, ahead of LSU standout Leonard Fournette, and credited him as a “superior pass-catcher and playmaker in the passing game.”

 

“While the rugged runner from the Bayou certainly deserves a top grade based on his impressive set of tools (size, speed, power and vision) and ultra-physical running style, the dynamic playmaking potential of Florida State’s Dalvin Cook could make him a better pro when it is all said and done,” Brooks wrote. “I know that might be considered blasphemy in some circles based on Fournette’s reputation as a game changer, but a close look at Cook’s game reveals an electric multi-purpose runner with a knack for delivering explosive plays whenever he has the ball in his hands.”

Cook left as the leading rusher in FSU history, with 4,464 yards.

 

[HTTRDynasty]

I'm still hoping Bruce has the stones to draft McDowell and trust Tomsula to get the 20 yr old to reach his massive potential.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dark Acre]

30 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Huh?  Weed can sometimes enhance performance?  I've never heard that before.

 

And I was saying drafting a guy with a weed addiction is more risky because it's impossible to know whether the player can truly get rid of a habit he's likely had since his early teens.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-marijuana-affects-working-out-2015-1

 

It's a complex chemical, and for some people, it really does help them focus, give you insight, etc.  You see patterns (I don't mean hallucinating shapes and stuff) but I can see someone who when watching game film high notices certain things that he wouldn't notice sober.  Some people can turn off the fatigue of running or weight training, or what have you.  3/4 of the NBA gets high and some of them are stoned in games.  If they're playing worse, they're getting canned.  What matters is their maturity and discipline not to touch the stuff when they aren't allowed to.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

Cooks combine was horrific and combine's, specifically 3 cone, agility/burst related drills plus minimum speed requirements have a huge correlation with success, add in the shoulder and the off field concerns and i have heard and believe that he will fall, quite a bit. Fournette and McCaffrey go top 15-20, Fournette as high as 4th potentially, then Mixon and Cook are the round 2 values, though Mixon could keep falling. 

 

I went through some updated mocks -- yeah if the thought is he can drop into the later part of the first, that would match a bunch of mocks.  But the 2nd round -- not so much but yeah like I said there are some stragglers, if I recall McShay in one of his back and forth mocks with Kiper dropped him to the first pick of the 2nd. 

 

Ultimately, I think Cook is going to go top 20 or worse case top 25 -- especially if all the buzz about Tampa wanting him is on the money.  PFF rates Cook as the best RB in the draft.  Dane Brugler who I respect as an anaylist, ditto.  Ditto Brooks.  And if Casserly is right that 7 teams rate him as the top running back in the draft -- the idea that he will tumble down to the 2nd round IMO is unlikely.

 

Edit:  actually just checked on McShay, I was wrong, he had him as a late first rounder, not in the 2nd.

 

http://floridastate.247sports.com/Bolt/NFL-scout-Dalvin-Cook-is-best-RB-Ive-evaluated-pound-for-pound-52400435

NFL scout: Dalvin Cook is best RB I've evaluated pound for pound

NFL scouts reportedly gush over FSU RB Dalvin Cook

• Brendan Sonnone - 71 minutes ago

One NFL scout called Florida State’s Dalvin Cook the best running back he’s ever evaluated “pound for pound”.

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel spoke to several NFL scouts off the record about Cook and other top running backs in this year’s draft class. The feedback regarding Cook was mostly positive, with some scouts expressing concern about several off-field incidents that dated back to high school as well as a history of shoulder injuries.

Another scout questioned Cook’s explosiveness, although most who spoke for the piece seemed impressed with his overall game.

“He can score from any spot on the field,” one scout told the publication. “Pound for pound I think he’s the best all-around back I’ve ever done.”

Another scout compared Cook to former FSU running back Devonta Freeman, who has had two 1,000-yard campaigns in his first two NFL seasons.

“He’ll be in the mode of (Devonta) Freeman,” said another scout. “I absolutely love that guy. He can take over a game. What makes him special is his first 10 yards. His acceleration rate is awesome. Good enough hands. People will try to kill his character, and to a degree he may slide.”

Cook is widely projected to be a first-round pick in the 2017 NFL Draft, which begins next Thursday at 8 p.m.

[dyst]

Want to jump in on the few players we've been linked with.

 

1. Rueben Foster - I like the position. Always need linebackers. Sucks about his recent sample failure. I'd stay away just for that reason. The two Trents already have issues with suspensions, and we don't need another player added to the list.

 

2. Christian McCaffery - I like his film. Good speed, good hands, good vision. Seems to have wiggle in the hips and can juke a guy. Just don't think we need a RB and others have said he's small so that worries me.

 

3. Dalvin Cook - Lots of big runs as least on his highlights. But on those highlights I see him running through a lot of big open holes. Seems like a good one cut and burst type of player but I didn't see many jukes or wiggle in the hips. Reminds me of Keith Marshalls highlight film. 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

I still think Howard and McDowell are the best two players in this draft. Probably would have been better to have stability and a leader on the Dline before drafting him though. Now we've got Hood as the only real returning player, other than a couple guys going into their second year after not doing much and a couple FAs, that, well, who knows what they'll be like, especially to a rookie with that much talent.

[crabbypatty]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

Cooks combine was horrific and combine's, specifically 3 cone, agility/burst related drills plus minimum speed requirements have a huge correlation with success, add in the shoulder and the off field concerns and i have heard and believe that he will fall, quite a bit. Fournette and McCaffrey go top 15-20, Fournette as high as 4th potentially, then Mixon and Cook are the round 2 values, though Mixon could keep falling. 

No way underwear Olympics nullifies 3400 yards and almost 40 TDs over the last week seasons. He didn't test especially well but the game is played on the field not in the underwear Olympics... And he flat out dominated on the field.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I still think Howard and McDowell are the best two players in this draft. Probably would have been better to have stability and a leader on the Dline before drafting him though. Now we've got Hood as the only real returning player, other than a couple guys going into their second year after not doing much and a couple FAs, that, well, who knows what they'll be like, especially to a rookie with that much talent.

 

I think with McDowell its all about due diligence.  Teams are privy to a lot more information about these players than we are.   And with McDowell specifically you got to explore his personality and will to succeed.  What's gotten me off of McDowell is it sounds like there is some serious work to do with him on technique.  He's unlikely to be able to just use sheer athleticism to overwhelm blockers in the NFL like he did in college.  That was part of Cooley's criticism which is he plays high and had bad footwork and gets away with things in college that he won't be able to against good NFL blockers.

 

Some of the pro-McDowell people on the thread seem to throw in the possibility of Tomsula taking over this kid and training him like the Karate Kid movies.  But for that to happen, Malik would have to be a willing and good student.  Cooley isn't always right but he seemed to paint a picture of a guy who likes to play without thinking much versus someone like Jonathan Allen who in his mind is a smart dude and pays attention to technique and knows what O lineman are trying to do to him.

 

Based on what I've read, on my book Malik is a cringe worthy pick IMO at #17 (too risky), if we are talking the 2nd round, I'd like it.  But I feel softer than that based on the context of the team.   The reason why I dislike the idea versus hate it -- is the lack of current talent on the d line.   But I admit, its all about due diligence on this guy and if people are telling the Redskins scouts Malik is a great guy and motivated but just misunderstood -- then good enough.    But I am getting the picture of late that Malik's issues aren't just attitude but also that he's raw and not refined.  If so, the dude would really have to take well to coaching.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

I would not draft McDowell in the first 2 rounds...sorry.     Give me a player like Ryan Anderson over McDowell any day of the week and twice on Sunday

[Morneblade]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think with McDowell its all about due diligence.  Teams are privy to a lot more information about these players than we are.   And with McDowell specifically you got to explore his personality and will to succeed.  What's gotten me off of McDowell is it sounds like there is some serious work to do with him on technique.  He's unlikely to be able to just use sheer athleticism to overwhelm blockers in the NFL like he did in college.  That was part of Cooley's criticism which is he plays high and had bad footwork and gets away with things in college that he won't be able to against good NFL blockers.

 

Some of the pro-McDowell people on the thread seem to throw in the possibility of Tomsula taking over this kid and training him like the Karate Kid movies.  But for that to happen, Malik would have to be a willing and good student.  Cooley isn't always right but he seemed to paint a picture of a guy who likes to play without thinking much versus someone like Jonathan Allen who in his mind is a smart dude and pays attention to technique and knows what O lineman are trying to do to him.

 

Based on what I've read, on my book Malik is a cringe worthy pick IMO at #17 (too risky), if we are talking the 2nd round, I'd like it.  But I feel softer than that based on the context of the team.   The reason why I dislike the idea versus hate it -- is the lack of current talent on the d line.   But I admit, its all about due diligence on this guy and if people are telling the Redskins scouts Malik is a great guy and motivated but just misunderstood -- then good enough.    But I am getting the picture of late that Malik's issues aren't just attitude but also that he's raw and not refined.  If so, the dude would really have to take well to coaching.

 

 

He's raw, but I'm not so worried about that with Tomsula. One of the things that was brought up was that he was asked to play 90% of the snaps, and play every position on the line. And both of those things I think contributed to taking plays off and being raw. Tomsula is a great teacher, I think he can hone him into a skilled player. The other part is effort. That's different. But if I have to pick a guy to take that on, Tomsula is that guy as well.

 

I'd also like to point out it that effort didn't seem to be an issue early in the season, it was only late in the season, according to the guy I've been using (outside of just film logs, which I prefer).

 

Basically, if he is only playing 1 position (5 tech) most of the time and getting a realistic rotation, these things might become a thing of the past quickly.

 

Or I might be an idiot. It's not like that hasn't happened before. I'd take a shot though.

[Bonez3]

On March 20, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Bonez3 said:

 

 

I will cite one concern I heard some rumblings about. Reason he was so anxious at combine physical is that he may have had stored urine and the temp was starting to turn. Kid plays like a beast and wouldn't be surprised unfortunately if he used PED's given some of his size attributes.

 

I had some inside intel on this a month ago... Turned out to be case. Foster just fell completely off m board. Guy plays like he still has needle stuck in his ass. Loved his pure football skills, but won't compete on next level without the juice

[HTTRDynasty]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think with McDowell its all about due diligence.  Teams are privy to a lot more information about these players than we are.   And with McDowell specifically you got to explore his personality and will to succeed.  What's gotten me off of McDowell is it sounds like there is some serious work to do with him on technique.  He's unlikely to be able to just use sheer athleticism to overwhelm blockers in the NFL like he did in college.  That was part of Cooley's criticism which is he plays high and had bad footwork and gets away with things in college that he won't be able to against good NFL blockers.

 

Some of the pro-McDowell people on the thread seem to throw in the possibility of Tomsula taking over this kid and training him like the Karate Kid movies.  But for that to happen, Malik would have to be a willing and good student.  Cooley isn't always right but he seemed to paint a picture of a guy who likes to play without thinking much versus someone like Jonathan Allen who in his mind is a smart dude and pays attention to technique and knows what O lineman are trying to do to him.

 

Based on what I've read, on my book Malik is a cringe worthy pick IMO at #17 (too risky), if we are talking the 2nd round, I'd like it.  But I feel softer than that based on the context of the team.   The reason why I dislike the idea versus hate it -- is the lack of current talent on the d line.   But I admit, its all about due diligence on this guy and if people are telling the Redskins scouts Malik is a great guy and motivated but just misunderstood -- then good enough.    But I am getting the picture of late that Malik's issues aren't just attitude but also that he's raw and not refined.  If so, the dude would really have to take well to coaching.

 

McDowell was the only player on his defense with even a puncher's chance of being drafted within the first 4 rounds.  He was carrying the team on his back, playing 90% of defensive snaps.  I'm not surprised he started playing high and with sloppy technique.  At close to 300 pounds, he had to be exhausted playing all over the line and drawing double teams almost every snap.  The weight on his shoulders was a night and day difference from a guy like Jonathan Allen, who had first round talent all over the field playing alongside him. 

 

I think a lot of these dudes, Cooley included, need to take a closer look at context when studying film.  Hopefully our scouts and decision makers do.  I can see McDowell going to a team like Seattle, or even Dallas, and becoming an All-Pro, and us kicking ourselves for passing on him.

[Koolblue13]

Ive definitely been pretty heavy in front of the McDowell wagon this entire time. 

 

His physical ability has him where he started the season and thats possibly the best player in the draft.

 

Theres some really damning comments about him though. When no teammate likes you or your family? Damn man. Thats harsh. 

 

Who knows though. His team sucked and he was frustrated. Hes very young. Thats either the kind of passion that drives you to be the best or makes you a cancer. 

 

We cant possibly know that.

[Warhead36]

I'd stay away from McDowell. I just don't think he'll do well HERE. Yeah he'll probably go somewhere like Seattle or New England and ball out but that's just a different set of circumstances. We can't afford that kind of gamble.

[HTTRDynasty]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd stay away from McDowell. I just don't think he'll do well HERE. Yeah he'll probably go somewhere like Seattle or New England and ball out but that's just a different set of circumstances. We can't afford that kind of gamble.

 

Which is why we'll always be a step behind as a franchise.  You need to take calculated risks to win in this league.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Which is why we'll always be a step behind as a franchise.  You need to take calculated risks to win in this league.

Not drafting 20yos with poor technique and unlikable personalities is not remotely close to why we've sucked for 25 years.

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Not drafting 20yos with poor technique and unlikable personalities is not remotely close to why we've sucked for 25 years.

 

I'm not saying it is. 

[Koolblue13]

14 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Which is why we'll always be a step behind as a franchise.  

 

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I'm not saying it is. 

Okay.

[Morneblade]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Not drafting 20yos with poor technique and unlikable personalities is not remotely close to why we've sucked for 25 years.

 

I'm not worried so much about technique because that can be taught. And we have a VERY good teacher in Tomsula.

 

Personality might be a concern, but I also remember the media not liking Art Monk. And he was probably the classiest dude we've had. So that would have to be looked at.

[Warhead36]

15 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Which is why we'll always be a step behind as a franchise.  You need to take calculated risks to win in this league.

Sure. But a guy like McDowell isn't worth the risk. Not in the 1st round. 2nd round sure. You gotta nail your 1st rounders.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

I'm not worried so much about technique because that can be taught. And we have a VERY good teacher in Tomsula.

 

Personality might be a concern, but I also remember the media not liking Art Monk. And he was probably the classiest dude we've had. So that would have to be looked at.

Yeah, we dont know what drives him or causes his issues. Coaches might, but we dont.

 

Like I said, could be an issue with teammates not caring enough or being frustrated with a **** team or he could just be an asshole.

 

We dont know.

[Morneblade]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, we dont know what drives him or causes his issues. Coaches might, but we dont.

 

Like I said, could be an issue with teammates not caring enough or being frustrated with a **** team or he could just be an asshole.

 

We dont know.

 

And that would be the one thing I would really want to get to the bottom of. That, and if he is coachable or not. If he is, and he was just worn down and frustrated at the end of the year (he was great at the beginning) then full speed ahead.

 

If he was not coachable and blamed everyone else , then you probably need to pass on him.

[HTTRDynasty]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Sure. But a guy like McDowell isn't worth the risk. Not in the 1st round. 2nd round sure. You gotta nail your 1st rounders.

 

I'm sure the Ravens are happy they took the risk on Ronnie Stanley last year drafting him 6th overall amidst work ethic concerns.  He ended up being the best rookie LT last year:

 

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2016/03/nfl_draft_rumors_notre_dames_ronnie_stanleys_stock.html

While some analysts believe Stanley is the second best offensive tackle in this year's draft class behind only Mississippi product Laremy Tunsil, there are scouts and NFL insiders who believe the Golden Domer could be a candidate to slide down the draft board.

"There are a lot of questions on his mental toughness and work ethic," A former NFC personnel director told NJ Advance Media on the condition of anonymity. "He's a very gifted athlete, but has only average strength."

"He didn't lift at the Combine and said last week he thought he would do 20 reps at his Pro Day," the source said. "That's awful for an elite offensive lineman. He has to really come out and work hard at his Pro Day.

"His task is to erase some doubts. He has huge upside but also huge downside. Stanley has the natural tools to be great, but there is a big 'if' involved with him. That means there is also a huge bust factor teams need to consider."

 

The Dolphins also took a big risk on Tunsil last year that paid off for them, albeit it was a different sort of risk. 

 

 

[Morneblade]

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Sure. But a guy like McDowell isn't worth the risk. Not in the 1st round. 2nd round sure. You gotta nail your 1st rounders.

 

You want to for sure, but there is never a guarantee.

At least we're not giving up 2 more 1st rounders AND a 2nd if he busts like RGIII.