Zguy28 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Yeah, I'm really not a fan of the bathroom laws. But this Obama action sucks, too. (To the point where I hope it's not true). It is true. http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/12/politics/transgender-bathrooms-obama-administration/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 So what is the point of POTUS sending out the letters to the public schools? Can he really tell the schools systems that they will face losing their federal funding if they don't comply? Something just doesn't sound right. they do it all the time. it's how the feds keep their hands firmly planted in public education policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneskins Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 they do it all the time. it's how the feds keep their hands firmly planted in public education policy. It just seems like they are walking a dangerous line. Its one thing when you are talking about doing this for colleges / universities etc.. but this is with kids (some of them young). To me that sounds like it is inviting trouble. I mean when you are 5-6 yrs old, you hardly even know what your own penis is.. let alone why sally doesn't have one. In middle school, you have a bunch of horny adolescent kids that are just learning about sex, and now you want them to be able to go into the other gender's bathroom / locker room because they "identify" with them? Again, it sounds like it is just asking for trouble. I don't care one way or the other... when they are adults.. What I do care about is now you are potentially putting our children into situations that could go very wrong.. All at the direction of the federal gov't. So what would happen when (hypothetically) kid A (14 y/o Male that identifies with the female gender) walks into a female locker room to change / shower and kid B (14 y/o female) is also in there changing / showering. If Kid B then presses charges against kid A who took his pants off exposing his (male) genitals? Will Kid A now have to be a registered as a sex offender for the rest of his life? There are just too many bad things that could come out of this. I'm just curious, does anyone know what the population of Transgender Americans is? Are we talking 1%? 3%? 5%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Roe vs Wade forced legalization of abortion on the grounds that, despite it never being stated in the document, everyone implicitly had a constitutional right to privacy. Other than sex or masturbation, nothing is more private than restrooms and locker rooms. Eventually I would be fine with a 3rd unisex bathroom and locker room added to new facilities, but I would think the same people who insist a woman's right to privacy to choose to get an abortion is sacrosanct cannot subsequently nullify such a right when it comes to having a locker room to undress or shower absent of any persons with male genitalia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I don't agree with that method. Pass a law or even try executive order. I like this method much better than an executive order. It's just a letter ... it doesn't have the power of law behind it, it's just a letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I don't agree with that method. Pass a law or even try executive order. Absolutely ridiculous. So the already mediocre education our youth receives would be placed in further jeopardy over bathrooms. The administration trying to strong arm schools into doing what they want by again threatening to cut funding for education is bull****. Year after year it seems communities should educate their own children, a grand parent or parent that isn't working teaching 10-15 children from the local community. I do not have any kids yet but my wife and I have already discussed what exactly we plan to do with our children's education because public school is a complete joke and private school is too expensive. The option we have reached is my wife's mother is a teacher in Bulgaria and when we have children and they are old enough for proper education, she will move here and teach our kids. We will offer any parents in our local community a spot in the classroom if they want. Home schooling and sports/after school clubs so our kids don't miss out on learning/growing with other children I feel is the best way to go if people have an option like that available to them. Turning schools into a political battlefield is a lose/lose situation. We have elected officials to handle issues like these, not the opinion of one man whom gets to decide what's best. Yes I know what you are thinking, our elected officials are fools and get nothing done so Obama has to go around them.... All the more reason to stop voting for these clowns and elect real people into office that aren't career politicians that identify as an R or D and then vote by party lines. We need people that are willing to cooperate and meet in the middle and until people stop electing these crooks because they have an R or D next to their names, our presidents will have to pull bull**** like this. Seriously, our president and his justice department just threatened to cut funding for children's education over bathrooms. The really sad thing is that no matter how this situation plays out, I see the trains children losing. Children can be vicious in isolating out children that they see as not belonging and teasing, bullying and tormenting them. Teachers in most cases try their best, but children are still bullied in school everyday and a trans person trying to use the restroom they feel they identify with is a ripe target for abuse. The whole thing is just lose/lose like I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 This went off the rails when gender identity became protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/obama-transgender-bathroom-students-title-ix-223170 Obama's transgender student directive inflames culture wars The Obama administration’s historic directive on bathroom access for transgender students takes one of the most socially divisive fronts in America’s culture wars and intensifies it across the full spectrum of a well established battleground: public schools and school districts. Gone are the days when school districts could avoid, sidestep or otherwise delay decisions on the issue, since the administration’s decree was sent to every public school district in the land. Amid rancorous debate in the political arena on the subject — and a legal standoff between the federal government and North Carolina over a state law blocking legal protections for gay and transgender individuals — schools, districts and superintendents across the country were already grappling with the thorny legal question of how to treat transgender students. Now the Obama administration, through Friday’s letter from the Education and Justice Departments, has reinforced and specified its interpretation that transgender students are afforded sweeping civil rights protections under Title IX, the federal law prohibiting sex-based discrimination in educational programs and activities. That includes allowing transgender students access to bathrooms, locker rooms and other school facilities that align with their gender identity. “With this guidance, the Education and Justice Departments are making it crystal clear what schools' obligations to transgender students are under federal law,” said James Esseks, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender & HIV Project. “It's about time schools understand that transgender students are fully protected.” As it has done in North Carolina, the administration threatened Friday to withhold federal education dollars from schools, districts or states that fail to heed the order. But since the administration’s directive amounts to guidance and not a legal requirement, the debate is far from settled. In fact, the real fight has only truly begun, and both sides are digging in for what promises to be a long, nasty and emotional struggle of politics, policy and law — one that appears poised to ultimately land before the Supreme Court. "I believe it is the biggest issue facing families and schools in America since prayer was taken out of public schools," Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick declared Friday, mere hours after the Obama administration’s letter was released. In Patrick’s view, the Obama administration’s transgender rights stance will divide the country along a “family-values” fault line and sow discord within school school districts. He sees the threat of withholding federal resources for noncompliance as nothing short of “blackmail,” and vowed that the Lone Star State won’t be bullied by Washington."Well, in Texas, he can keep his 30 pieces of silver,” Patrick said. “We will not yield to blackmail from the president of the United States." The White House did not let that zinger go without a response. "Well, I think this does underscore the risk of electing a right-wing radio host to elected statewide office," press secretary Josh Earnest told reporters at the daily briefing Friday, digging at Patrick’s prowess on the Texas airwaves. But Texas Gov. Greg Abbott had Patrick’s back, vowing to lead a fight against the federal government, tweeting: “Obama can't rewrite the Civil Rights Act. He's not a King.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 It might be too soon for this, culturally, but I respect Obama for taking a stand on principle rather than the political climate. The majority of Americans are now accepting of homosexuality but transgender is a step beyond what a lot of people are comfortable with. It will take time as a society to come to terms with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 It might be too soon for this, culturally, but I respect Obama for taking a stand on principle rather than the political climate. The majority of Americans are now accepting of homosexuality but transgender is a step beyond what a lot of people are comfortable with. It will take time as a society to come to terms with it. Let me ask this: Does one have to identify for a specific amount of time before being recognized and allowed to use the bathroom they identify with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Let me ask this: Does one have to identify for a specific amount of time before being recognized and allowed to use the bathroom they identify with? I'll freely admit that if there are any environments where you run a widespread risk of having people pretend to be transgendered to get to hang out in the girls locker room, it's in a middle or high school environment. I don't know how you would solve for that problem. I really don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I'll freely admit that if there are any environments where you run a widespread risk of having people pretend to be transgendered to get to hang out in the girls locker room, it's in a middle or high school environment. I don't know how you would solve for that problem. I really don't. Or the stalker that wants to make their target have zero privacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Let me ask this: Does one have to identify for a specific amount of time before being recognized and allowed to use the bathroom they identify with? You would think this would have to be defined at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 You would think this would have to be defined at some point. So where do they go change or potty during the "evaluation" period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 It might be too soon for this, culturally, but I respect Obama for taking a stand on principle rather than the political climate. The majority of Americans are now accepting of homosexuality but transgender is a step beyond what a lot of people are comfortable with. It will take time as a society to come to terms with it.I would love the idea of him actually LEADING. It's the notion that he has the power to order every elementary school in the country to remodel their bathrooms, just by writing them a letter, that I have a problem with. I'll freely admit that if there are any environments where you run a widespread risk of having people pretend to be transgendered to get to hang out in the girls locker room, it's in a middle or high school environment. I don't know how you would solve for that problem. I really don't. Has there EVER been a case where that happened? Or the stalker that wants to make their target have zero privacy. Has there EVER been a case where that happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Larry, what are you asking if there has ever been a case of? Just want to be the 100% certain before I reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 Larry, what are you asking if there has ever been a case of? Just want to be the 100% certain before I reply. People falsely claiming to be trans, so they can use the girl's bathroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 LOL has there ever been a case of boys sneaking into the girls locker rooms? Holy ****, REALLY? Back in the good ol' days, they used to go on Panty Raids and such. It wasn't down to the local store to buy some. Besides,, he's talking about middle and high school kids.. by the accounts of many leading biologists, the horniest creatures on planet earth. I am absolutely 100% certain at some point in the history of american Public schools, there have been instances of boys being disciplined for trying to get into the girls locker rooms. that's just playing "show me" to the point of silliness. Perverts aside, which I am not concerned about,, there really SHOULD be some thought put towards the inability of many many many boys (mostly) between 13 and 17 to be completely mature. toss the potential to see some skin, and.. pretending that they can all behave is akin to pretending abstinence only sex ed works. The same principle applies. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the vast majority of the US just claiming to be Trans didn't allow someone to start using the bathroom of the opposite sex. I'm not sure I can show you a case since it hasn't really been possible before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 LOL has there ever been a case of boys sneaking into the girls locker rooms? I certainly would assume so. What's that got to do with this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I like how it's stated that Obama is the one "igniting culture wars" when in reality this is more of a reaction to the stupidity of the bathroom laws. It's another example of shamelessly projecting onto someone else what you are doing yourself. This entire issue was much ado about nothing that was created merely because certain states are making laws in jest to drum up more fear/hate for people perceived as "different." Solving a problem that never existed in the first place. As far as his letter to the schools goes, from my understanding all it is really stating is that by not following anti-discrimination laws, schools are opening themselves up to lawsuits, so it is directing schools to follow laws. Maybe I am wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the vast majority of the US just claiming to be Trans didn't allow someone to start using the bathroom of the opposite sex. I'm not sure I can show you a case since it hasn't really been possible before. OK, one vote for "it's never happened". (At least, as far as the poster is aware.) (And note, I gave you a lower standard to meet, than the claims made by the two people I quoted.) Anybody else? (And, for what it's worth? I'll tell you right now that I would not be shocked if it hasn't happened, somewhere in this country. There's a lot of folks in this country, and some of us do some REALLY weird things.) As far as his letter to the schools goes, from my understanding all it is really stating is that by not following anti-discrimination laws, schools are opening themselves up to lawsuits, so it is directing schools to follow laws. Maybe I am wrong? I certainly do not believe that there are any federal anti-discrimination laws that prohibit public schools from discriminating against trans children. (Might be some laws saying that, at state or local levels. But Obama doesn't get to enforce those laws.) (I think you could maybe argue that the 14th Amendment prohibits it. But I'd be more inclined to sat that the 14th prohibits legislated discrimination. Discrimination mandated by law.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Larry, it's never happened because there wasn't the ability for it to happen. It's like saying before 1900 nobody was ever killed by cyber bullying so we don't need to worry about that ever happenijg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 Larry, it's never happened because there wasn't the ability for it to happen. It's like saying before 1900 nobody was ever killed by cyber bullying so we don't need to worry about that ever happenijg. It's not 1900. And yes, there have been laws passed, prohibiting discrimination against trans people. Not nation wide. But I'd be really surprised if California hasn't prohibited it for 10 years, or more. And I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a rash of states prohibiting cyber bullying, before it ever happened, justified by "well, of course it hasn't happened yet. We need to criminalize it before it ever happens, once, anywhere. To protect our women folk from this dire threat that hasn't happened yet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 You're advocating for reactionary governance and I think that's a poor form of governance. It'd be nice if they started thinking about potential problems and how to best avoid them for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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