The "bathroom law" thread

[TheGoodBits]

And as a personal tip, always aim to the side to avoid splashback.

On a related note, is there anything more annoying than a poorly designed urinal?

I mean seriously, how hard is it to design something that doesn't involve piss splashing on your pants? After you've had a few beers and your pressure level has been increased to the point that you cannot reasonably expect to let loose a calm, steady stream, the LAST thing I need is to be worrying about all the damn pee I just got all over my pant legs.

[GhostofSparta]

New restroom split instead of men/women: one all urinals, one all regular toilets. Anybody can use whichever they prefer.

 

Problem solved, you're all welcome.

[Major Harris]

Honest question. ...how much does science back the transgender issue?

[The 12th Commandment]

Some architect is going to make his bones on this issue by thinking of a clever way to address it.  

[tshile]

New restroom split instead of men/women: one all urinals, one all regular toilets. Anybody can use whichever they prefer.

 

Problem solved, you're all welcome.

 

This works.

 

I honestly don't care how we do it. Unisex bathrooms works for me.

 

I just can't stand how everything is discrimination. Telling people with a penis they need to use the bathroom assigned to people with a penis, and not the bathroom assigned to people with a vagina, is not discrimination. You may find that method of separation no long appropriate, and may prefer something different, but it's not discrimination.

[Major Harris]

This works.

I honestly don't care how we do it. Unisex bathrooms works for me.

I just can't stand how everything is discrimination. Telling people with a penis they need to use the bathroom assigned to people with a penis, and not the bathroom assigned to people with a vagina, is not discrimination. You may find that method of separation no long appropriate, and may prefer something different, but it's not discrimination.

Oh that's bigotry. I'm sure the es resident expert will be here shortly to confirm.

[twa]

Honest question. ...how much does science back the transgender issue?

 

as much as you can afford 

 

the mental health branch has swung to a more supportive stance, biology hasn't moved much

[KingGibbs]

How about we let the women have the lead voice in whether or not a skirt wearing penis belongs in their bathroom?

It's become comical watching men argue back and forth on this very topic.

[twa]

Denying the penis ,skirted or otherwise,is discrimination.

 

besides can we really trust women ?

[grhqofb5]

So, taking a step back here to the year 2000 or so.  You had a men's bathroom and a women's bathroom at a mall.  What is the baseline rule for who goes where, and are there any states/localities that had laws regulating who goes where?  If you are a pre-op trans man, and you use the women's bathroom and someone sees your **** and files a police report, do any states/localities have laws providing for criminal penalties?  If you are post-op male, and use the women's bathroom, and someone recognizes or accuses you of being a man, files a files report, etc., are/were there laws providing criminal penalties? 

So it's not discrimination to say - this minority is icky and makes me feel funny, so I should pass laws whose sole purpose is to criminalize basic elements of their everyday lives, for no other purpose than to reduce the odds that their presence might make me feel creepy?

But, to answer the question that your spin was trying to masquerade as:

To me, the line between whether something is discrimination, has at least some basic elements.

Is it designed to apply only to a disliked minority?

Does it serve a legitimate societal interest? Is there some reason why society has to restrict people's freedom, to protect some other freedom or person? (This also gets into consideration of whether the proposal is the minimum restriction needed to protect the others).

(Laws that prohibit bank robbery restrict the freedom of a minority. But they're necessary, to protect the rights of people not to get robbed).

(There's probably some other elements to the definition. But those are the ones I can think of, right now).

This law is a picture of the first criteria. And is nowhere close to meeting the second.

(Now, show me a string of reports of people being raped or flashed or some such, in bathrooms, by people who are in no way actual trans, they're just claiming to be? And I'll certainly consider that maybe such laws are necessary. But I'm pretty sure that, if they'd happened even ONCE, I would have heard about it dozens of times.)

 

---

 

The new Lowe's near me needs a law, too.

Stall doors must be set so that, when unlatched, they stay ajar.

Really sucks walking up to a row of stalls, all the doors closed, and the only way to find out if one is occupied, is to try to open it.

 

Or you could just stick you head under each one to see for yourself.  After all, I don't see why that would make someone uncomfortable, and if it does they probably shouldn't be in there to begin with.  JK!!!!!  

[DogofWar1]

Honest question. ...how much does science back the transgender issue?

In what ways? Gender dysphoria is something we've come to understand better recently, and that it is a naturally occurring thing, some people's "mental" gender doesn't match with their "physical" gender. It used to be considered a disorder but today the disorder aspect of gender dysphoria stems from societal stressors, that is, absent societal stressors, gender dysphoria would not be in the DSM.

[daveakl]

How about we let the women have the lead voice in whether or not a skirt wearing penis belongs in their bathroom?

It's become comical watching men argue back and forth on this very topic.

Hey now, as a man I don't want a pants wearing vagina in my bathroom. Wait.....maybe I do?

[Predicto]

How will I know if I'm pissing on your shoe that way?

 

 

You're always pissing on our shoes.

 

Just tell us that it's raining, like always.    

[KingGibbs]

Hey now, as a man I don't want a pants wearing vagina in my bathroom. Wait.....maybe I do?

Look on the bright side. You won't get charged with indecent exposure.

[Predicto]

This works.

 

I honestly don't care how we do it. Unisex bathrooms works for me.

 

I just can't stand how everything is discrimination. Telling people with a penis they need to use the bathroom assigned to people with a penis, and not the bathroom assigned to people with a vagina, is not discrimination. You may find that method of separation no long appropriate, and may prefer something different, but it's not discrimination.

 

You may be right.  

 

They are still passing a law to address a non-existent issue, just to be cruel to transgender people and rile up social conservative voters.  But technically, it may not be discrimination.   Just small-minded assholishness.  

[Corcaigh]

How about we let the women have the lead voice in whether or not a skirt wearing penis belongs in their bathroom?

 

 

Let's not anger the Scottish. No good will come of that.

 

[CBass1724]

I saw a comment on the interwebz yesterday that brought up a good point.

 

I'm paraphrasing, but the gist of it was "Everyone is so worried about a man dressing up as a woman and creeping on your little daughter in the bathroom when this whole time these same men have been peeing next to your little boy."

[CBass1724]

Also, no conversations in the bathroom, fellas.  Get in, do your business, and get out.

 

This is the only exception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmJKY59NX8o

[tshile]

You may be right.  

 

They are still passing a law to address a non-existent issue, just to be cruel to transgender people and rile up social conservative voters.  But technically, it may not be discrimination.   Just small-minded assholishness.  

 

Yeah, when this topic comes up I always start with "I didn't know this was an issue.... what were transgender people doing before?"

Which causes people to pause for a second, then get back to the bickering.

 

But for that brief second there is a mutual admission of what this conversation really is... it's the right getting another chance to show the left's obsession with identity politics and it's the left's chance to throw another accusation of discrimination on the right.

 

it doesn't matter that bathrooms have been separated based on plumbing, not what you feel like, and you can't just wave your hands and change that then call the people who disagree with you bigots. i guess you can, and plenty do, but it's not a valid claim. it also doesn't matter that gender is apparently now something you get to decide, and the people who have made it so didn't bother consulting with anyone else on the matter, they just decided one day and then hurled accusations of bigotry at anyone who questioned their decision.

 

the real discussion, for the few adults remaining in our society, is whether separating bathrooms based on plumbing is the way to do things. my vote: I don't care, but everyone please pick one and shut up. i'm sick of listening to the bickering. this was NEVER A PROBLEM, and you've all made it a problem. are you bored? you cannot find something better to focus your attention on?

[grhqofb5]

In what ways? Gender dysphoria is something we've come to understand better recently, and that it is a naturally occurring thing, some people's "mental" gender doesn't match with their "physical" gender. It used to be considered a disorder but today the disorder aspect of gender dysphoria stems from societal stressors, that is, absent societal stressors, gender dysphoria would not be in the DSM.

 

How is it exactly that gender is manifested?  Is it not society that determines what actions constitute "male" and what actions constitute "female?" Isn't gender a result of "nurture" as opposed to "nature?"  i.e. don't women only wear dresses because society dictates that they wear dresses?  And don't men wear suits and ties because that's how men dress?  Don't little boys play with trucks, and little girls play with Barbie dolls because that's what they are given by their parents?

 

Or are you suggesting that there's a "nature" element in all of this, that men are drawn to things that are more aggressive, rougher, and women are naturally drawn to things that are geared toward motherhood, ensuring the immediate well being of family, more reflective thought, sensibilities?

[Springfield]

I saw a comment on the interwebz yesterday that brought up a good point.

I'm paraphrasing, but the gist of it was "Everyone is so worried about a man dressing up as a woman and creeping on your little daughter in the bathroom when this whole time these same men have been peeing next to your little boy."

That's a great way to think of it. I like that.

Plus, doesn't this come across once again as men trying to define the rights as women, a la abortion? As in, I hear men complaining about this but no women. Who is a man to tell a woman what should and should not be acceptable in their bathroom?

[Larry]

Yeah, when this topic comes up I always start with "I didn't know this was an issue.... what were transgender people doing before?"

Obviously, I don't know. But I would assume that what they were doing was "sneak in, and hope nobody catches them, in the knowledge that if anybody catches them, they will likely be assaulted, before being arrested." 

 

If only we could go back to those days, before those uppity trans people and their allies took something that wasn't a problem, and made it into one. 

[Zguy28]

That's a great way to think of it. I like that.

Plus, doesn't this come across once again as men trying to define the rights as women, a la abortion? As in, I hear men complaining about this but no women. Who is a man to tell a woman what should and should not be acceptable in their bathroom?

Oh, I hear the absolute opposite. I've even been accused by several women of being insensitive to them about how they feel regarding them not wanting males in there because I asked them the question of "what did you think men who want to be women (is that a trans man or trans woman, I can't keep it straight) did before? Do you think they went to the mens room up until now?"

 

 

I also got told by a late teen/early twenties biological female that she was transgender because she wears masculine clothes and style and behavior. But then she said "I'm not a boy, and don't want to be a boy." WTH?

[twa]

. Who is a man to tell a woman what should and should not be acceptable in their bathroom?

 

 

Is this a trans man or which?

[Major Harris]

In what ways? Gender dysphoria is something we've come to understand better recently, and that it is a naturally occurring thing, some people's "mental" gender doesn't match with their "physical" gender. It used to be considered a disorder but today the disorder aspect of gender dysphoria stems from societal stressors, that is, absent societal stressors, gender dysphoria would not be in the DSM.

I'll be behind on this one. I am not even sure what that means.

My physical basketball skills don't match my mental ones.