The "bathroom law" thread

[tshile]

No one is criminalizing going to the bathroom

[zoony]

I don't identify as a bigot so i should be cool.

Very well done

[Larry]

Only person that said anything remotely like what you said he (we) said was you.

Well, me, and the person who appears to be claiming that my attempted compromise is unacceptable, because it doesn't make every single person happy.

 

(Said person apparently saying that so well that you felt obligated to tell me that's what he's saying, too.) 

 

But if you want to play that game, which bathroom should these people use?  (In fact, I suppose a more on-topic question would be "Which bathroom should this person be required by state law, to use?") 

 

 

[Major Harris]

But if you want to play that game, which bathroom should these people use? (In fact, I suppose a more on-topic question would be "Which bathroom should this person use

That depends. Are we using your proposal of how a person is dressed or your 2nd criteria of what sex they look like?

[Larry]

No one is criminalizing going to the bathroom

 

You're right.  Poor choice of words. 

 

Can you come up with a better way to refer to what they're legislating? 

That depends. Are we using your proposal of how a person is dressed or your 2nd criteria of what sex they look like?

 

My proposal has not changed. 

 

Edit: 

 

And if you'd like to make your own proposal for which bathroom people should use, feel free to tell us what it is, and which bathroom the above people use, under Larry's proposal, and under yours. 

[Predicto]

Still waiting for someone to demonstrate to me that this is a real problem requiring government to do anything at all

 

 

(other than the real problem of rallying social conservatives to vote GOP in the upcoming election)

[Major Harris]

Still waiting for someone to demonstrate to me that this is a real problem requiring government to do anything at all

(other than the real problem of rallying social conservatives to vote GOP in the upcoming election)

This.

But it is real enough for the feds to send letters to school districts.

You're right. Poor choice of words.

Can you come up with a better way to refer to what they're legislating?

My proposal has not changed.

Edit:

And if you'd like to make your own proposal for which bathroom people should use, feel free to tell us what it is, and which bathroom the above people use, under Larry's proposal, and under yours.

Well, I'll take a wild guess and assume that those people are men who have made some kind of switch. This fits perfectly into your proposal. And them using a women's restroom would more than likely produce no reaction.

Edit: they should use Klingon bathrooms.

[Larry]

Well, I'll take a wild guess and assume that those people are men who have made some kind of switch.

1) You'd be wrong.

2)  And why should it make any difference what it says on their birth certificates? Their birth certificates aren't going to the bathroom, those two people are.  The people in the bathroom aren't going to see their birth certificates, they're going to see the people.  Why are their birth certificates even part of the discussion? 

 

See, that's the reasoning behind my proposal:  I'm proposing what I believe is the proposal which is most likely to avoid fights.  (Or even any uncomfortable-ness.) 

 

It's blindingly obvious that both of those people would be more comfortable in the woman's room.  That's the room they'd prefer.  And any hypothetical other people in the woman's room will be comfortable with them being there. 

 

No information other than their picture is needed, to come to that conclusion. 

 

Whereas if either of those people goes into the men's room, it's guaranteed to be uncomfortable, for everybody involved.  And possibly worse. 

 

Sure seems to me that, if we can't have a society where anybody can use whichever restroom they want, and you got a problem with that?, if we have to have a society where every person has one and only one choice as to facilities, then how about allowing people to pick which one it will be, when they're getting dressed? 

[tshile]

Women everywhere will have to factor in their bathroom choices when considering the pants suit

[Larry]

Women everywhere will have to factor in their bathroom choices when considering the pants suit

 

Only if they're Hillary, and they're worried that they might run into chip. 

[tshile]

If a woman uses the urinal next to you is it still against the rules to speak to each other?

What about peeking?

[TheGoodBits]

If a woman uses the urinal next to you is it still against the rules to speak to each other?

What about peeking?

If a woman uses the urinal next to me I'm not gonna peek because I'm going to assume she has a penis. Then I'm gonna get the hell out of North Carolina and not come back.

[twa]

that seems intolerant, dare I say bigoted?

 

[Major Harris]

1) You'd be wrong.

2) And why should it make any difference what it says on their birth certificates?

Yeah larry, i got it. They're from your star trek fan site.

Now, what happens when your two klingons want to use the men's room?

Who said anything about birth certificates?

[daveakl]

Yeah larry, i got it. They're from your star trek fan site.

Now, what happens when your two klingons want to use the men's room?

Who said anything about birth certificates?

As long as they are careful around Uranus do you really care which bathroom they use?

[Major Harris]

As long as they are careful around Uranus do you really care which bathroom they use?

No, i don't. I never said i did. Just pointing out to larry that you can't just set the scenario to fit your argument.

I mean really, in this new world where people can choose and change and self identify their gender, are we really gonna end up with everyone fitting nice and neatly into what we consider gender appropriate clothing?

[Larry]

Who said anything about birth certificates?

You did.

When the first thing you said about them was what gender they were born with.

[Major Harris]

Care to quote that larry?

[Larry]

I mean really, in this new world where people can choose and change and self identify their gender, are we really gonna end up with everyone fitting nice and neatly into what we consider gender appropriate clothing?

1). Everyone? Of course not. There are guaranteed to be some people who will choose to challenge whatever standards we come up with.

Some people revel in being different, for various reasons. They want the attention. They're looking for a fight. They're assholes who think that if they can tick people off, and get away with it, then that makes them powerful.

No solution is going to make THOSE people non-confrontational. Because confrontation is their goal.

But, we CAN come up with a solution that allows the trans people who aren't looking for a fight, (the group which, I suspect, is the vast majority of trans people), to not have one.

2). And I'm terribly sorry that the notion of a brave new world where people have the power to choose, scares you.

---

Care to quote that larry?

Well, I'll take a wild guess and assume that those people are men who have made some kind of switch.

[Major Harris]

Still waiting for that quote. That one doesn't nearly work. Especially when i said that those 2, no matter if they're women by birth or trans by choice, would have no issues in a women's bathroom.

2). And I'm terribly sorry that the notion of a brave new world where people have the power to choose, scares you.

Again, ,words in my mouth. I never said i was scared. I have never really taken a strong stance either way with this other than to say i don't understand it and don't totally buy in.

But i disagreed with something you said, so in grand larry fashion (well, it's es m.o) i have been lumped on one side of the debate.

You posted a pic that fit your argument. The pic that doesn't fit your argument you bow off. If i dare say, you seem to be completely dismissing will smiths sons self identification as just wanting to be different. I guess he doesn't meet your level of acceptable difference?

[Zguy28]

Still waiting for someone to demonstrate to me that this is a real problem requiring government to do anything at all

 

 

(other than the real problem of rallying social conservatives to vote GOP in the upcoming election)

You mean the real problem of sexual predators abusing relaxed rules on who uses what? Or you mean the real problem of the Obama administration delivering a decree that children's schools allow boys and girls to use the bathroom and locker room of the sex they identify with, or face removal of funding and lawsuits?

[tshile]

Just to share:

My county's school board put out a statement essentially saying that this issue affects a very small number of students, and that to accommodate them they are allowed to use to the single occupancy bathroom in the nursing station. They have been doing this for a while, well before it became a national conversation (years.) They have spoken with the affected students and believe they are perfectly happy with the current arrangement and have no plans of making any changes, but will revisit the issue if it stops being an adequate solution for those affected.

Listening to the reporter from NC on the Tony Kornheiser show yesterday, this wasn't an issue until the liberals in Charlotte (that was their description) passed an ordinance requiring public restrooms (universities and k-12 school included in that) to allow for people who are transgender to pick their locker room/bathroom.

The state's general assembly passed the law as a response. What we're now seeing is a clash between the more liberal cities in NC that are full of outsiders (again, their description, people move their from outside the state for work) and the people who have lived in NC all their lives and have a different 'mood' on social issues/political footballs.

Edit: I should make clear Tony Kornheiser is a self identified liberal, as are most of his guest/co-hosts, and while the reporter refused to pick a political persuasion on the air his comments definitely indicated he was on the 'liberals' (if you want to categorize this topic that way) side at least on this issue.

[daveakl]

tshile:

To expand on that, the state assembly has been passing a bunch of laws that take power away from the local cities. Most of our cities here are liberal leaning and rubs the assembly the wrong way.

This power struggle has been going on for a few years.

[Larry]

You mean the real problem of sexual predators abusing relaxed rules on who uses what?

Yes. That would be a good "real problem" for you to support.

[Larry]

Just to share:

My county's school board put out a statement essentially saying that this issue affects a very small number of students, and that to accommodate them they are allowed to use to the single occupancy bathroom in the nursing station. They have been doing this for a while, well before it became a national conversation (years.) They have spoken with the affected students and believe they are perfectly happy with the current arrangement and have no plans of making any changes, but will revisit the issue if it stops being an adequate solution for those affected.

Sounds like a case of "It's not a problem (here)." And props to them for handling things so well. I'm glad that some things can be solved without a major political fight.

 

Let's hear it for people who just want to solve the thing, and get back to teaching school.