Burgold

The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

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17 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

Does anyone think that anywhere? I don’t know a single Dem in favor of open borders 

 

Then why arent we saying it? Why are we letting Trump control the narrative.

 

I think Dems are split on immigration. Some of us like me just want the current laws enforced (end of "promise to show up to hearing and released in the US w no follow up once they skip hearing), better vetting, dreamers stay, chain immigration stays etc vs others who want open borders, abolish ICE, sanctuary cities.

 

Its like the Dem leaders are scared bc what ever they say will probably turn off half their base.

 

If Pelosi or Schumer said the caravan should be allowed to cross the border = half the dems would lose their collective ****.

If Pelosi of Schumer said only people qualified under amnesty should be allowed in = half the dems would lose their collective ****.

 

If only the Dems had someone who could actually deliver a message in such a was as to untie the Dems ... our leaders suck.

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The undocumented immigration issue is a made up. Immigrants come here and help this country, and businesses - who are not punished - rely on undocumented workers. White fear and racism have made it an issue. This even being a topic of conversation is another example of America is falling apart and the empire is doomed.

 

It's a humanitarian crisis that people are willing to travel thousands of miles to live in squalor in this country. That crisis is because of what the US did in those Central American nations which will never be discussed because the US is a beacon light of freedom and democracy and we want others to follow except in a lot of Latin America where we have destroyed them and it has lead to this crisis.

Edited by BenningRoadSkin
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22 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The undocumented immigration issue is a made up. Immigrants come here and help this country and businesses - who are not punished - rely on undocumented workers. White fear and racism have made it an issue. 

 

Not exactly.  There is an issue with millions of people in the country being undocumented and thus have to "hide in the shadows".  In general, i think we need to make the process to become a legal resident much faster than the 10-20 years it takes now.  If it was. A 2 year process, i think the number of illegal border crossings by otherwise law abiding people would drop considerably.  After that we could have a process for getting those in the country without proper documentation to get it.

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2 minutes ago, HoustonSkin said:

 

Not exactly.  There is an issue with millions of people in the country being undocumented and thus have to "hide in the shadows".  In general, i think we need to make the process to become a legal resident much faster than the 10-20 years it takes now.  If it was. A 2 year process, i think the number of illegal border crossings by otherwise law abiding people would drop considerably.  After that we could have a process for getting those in the country without proper documentation to get it.

My point wasn't that they do or don't hide in the shadows.

 

My point is that it is not the national security issue that Trump and our media are making it out to be.

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20 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The undocumented immigration issue is a made up. Immigrants come here and help this country and businesses - who are not punished - rely on undocumented workers. White fear and racism have made it an issue. This even being a topic of conversation is another example of America is falling apart and the empire is doomed.

 

Its a humanitarian crisis that people are willing thousands of miles to live in squalor in this country. That crisis is because of what the US did in those Central American nations which will never be discussed because the US is a beacon light of freedom and democracy and we want others to follow except in a lot of Latin America where we have destroyed them and it has lead to this crisis.

 

So .. you want open borders bc of the white man's past atrocities in South America, presumably by some capitalist company like Dominio sugar or Dole. (true, you didnt say open borders.)

 

Were both democrats. (I assume you vote D.)

 

Were both different.

 

WaPo had a good article on this. There is a large moderate view point on immigration that could sway the moderate independent/repub/dem ... if only a party could run on a moderate immigration platform and not have to walk the extreme right or extreme left party line.

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1 minute ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

So .. you want open borders bc of the white man's past atrocities in South America,

I didn't say white man's past atrocities, I said America's past atrocities in that part of the world. Both the government and our transnational companies.

 

Those issues are why people are willing to travel thousands of miles under dangerous conditions to come to this country and live in squalor. Instead of finding a cure for the disease - stop effing with these countries affairs and help them boost their standard of living - America does what America does and only treats the symptom.

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14 hours ago, twa said:

 

what is the difference between supporting sanctuary cities and open borders?

 

 

One is a border. One is not. 

 

One is an action taken by a government which has no authority over immigration. The other actually has the authority. 

 

One exists. One is a myth. 

 

Thats what I can come up with. There's probably others. 

Edited by Larry
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4 hours ago, twa said:

Is this a post in favor of ending affirmative action?

I see your “made a good point” streak ended at one.

 

A new record!! Let’s build off of that!

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff
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When America Barred Italians

 

Lombroso — and a growing sea of American nativists — branded the Southern Italians savages and rapists, blaming them for the crime that was on the rise in the United States.

 

The United States Immigration Commission concluded in the infamous 1911 Dillingham report: “Certain kinds of criminality are inherent in the Italian race. In the popular mind, crimes of personal violence, robbery, blackmail and extortion are peculiar to the people of Italy.”

The Immigration Act of 1924 barred most Italians from coming into the country — causing immigration from Italy to fall 90 percent. Even though the vast majority of those coming to America were good, honest working people and not criminals.

 

Italian-Americans who today support the president’s efforts to keep Muslims and Mexicans out of the country need to look into their own histories — and deep into their hearts. After all, they’re just a couple of generations removed from that same racism, hatred and abuse. Had our ancestors tried to come days, weeks or months after the 1924 ban, we may not have even been born.

 

 

Think your immigrant ancestors came here legally? Think again

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1 hour ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

Then why arent we saying it? Why are we letting Trump control the narrative.

 

I think Dems are split on immigration. Some of us like me just want the current laws enforced (end of "promise to show up to hearing and released in the US w no follow up once they skip hearing), better vetting, dreamers stay, chain immigration stays etc vs others who want open borders, abolish ICE, sanctuary cities.

 

Its like the Dem leaders are scared bc what ever they say will probably turn off half their base.

 

If Pelosi or Schumer said the caravan should be allowed to cross the border = half the dems would lose their collective ****.

If Pelosi of Schumer said only people qualified under amnesty should be allowed in = half the dems would lose their collective ****.

 

If only the Dems had someone who could actually deliver a message in such a was as to untie the Dems ... our leaders suck.

 

The Dems could put out a simple message: We passed a bipartisan immigration bill in 2013 but the GOP controlled house didn’t act on it. If they did, we’d have better border security and a better system overall for people coming to this country.

 

Having said that, it’s always going to be tougher for the minority party to get a national message out since normally POTUS has the bully pulpit. Plus it’s tough competing against the steady stream of lies coming from POTUS. 

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3 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I didn't say white man's past atrocities, I said America's past atrocities in that part of the world. Both the government and our transnational companies.

 

Those issues are why people are willing to travel thousands of miles under dangerous conditions to come to this country and live in squalor. Instead of finding a cure for the disease - stop effing with these countries affairs and help them boost their standard of living - America does what America does and only treats the symptom.

 

Benning, I owe you an apology. By random happenstance I was reading an article about a Loudon VA woman who berated a tourist visiting family from Guatemala bc they were speaking. The white woman said all the cliche crap you hear in this instance. Scary seeing that these arent confederate flag waving uneducated rednecks. This lady says she knows everyone in Loudon County and looks like a person of means and wealth. 

 

“How do you want them to speak English when they’re here just visiting,” the victim asked the woman in the video.

“You don’t freeload in this f****** country,” the woman shouted. “You get the f*** out, back to your f****** country.”

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The US has a history of meddling in Guatemalan affairs. In 1954 the CIA helped direct a coup to overthrow Guatemalan President Jacobo Árbenz, who was democratically elected. The coup replaced Mr Árbenz with a military junta.

Six years later, the military dictatorship prompted a civil war that lasted nearly 40 yearws and killed hundreds of thousands of people. The regime change and the civil war led to devastating long-term impacts on the Latin American country that includes gang violence, drug crime and extreme economic consequences.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/woman-filmed-harassing-family-speaking-174000168.html

----------------------------------------------------------

The part where I owe you an apology ...

 

You were right, I was not aware of the direct US involvement which lead to the direct destabilizing civil war lasting over 40 years. I did not know that this morning. I know that this afternoon. This just wasnt some capitalistic banana company, this was direct US govt involvement.  

 

The US should have some accommodation and extra consideration for Guatamalans. 

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13 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

the best use of the military.

 

Guard an already over-militarized part of the country.

 

From a caravan of unarmed civilians who are traveling to the border for the purpose of applying to legally enter the country. 

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54 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

From a caravan of unarmed civilians who are traveling to the border for the purpose of applying to legally enter the country. 

 

You seem to be intentionally omitting the UNKNOWN MIDDLE EASTERNERS, Larry.

 

 

On another note, I'm willing to bet Trump has floated using the military for many other inappropriate or illegal things and seethed when he was told he couldn't. 

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11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You seem to be intentionally omitting the UNKNOWN MIDDLE EASTERNERS, Larry.

 

 

On another note, I'm willing to bet Trump has floated using the military for many other inappropriate or illegal things and seethed when he was told he couldn't. 

 

I'm pretty sure that he can't legally do this, either. Maybe it's a case of them "assisting law enforcement". 

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2 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I'm pretty sure that he can't legally do this, either. Maybe it's a case of them "assisting law enforcement". 

 

Yeah Posse Comitatus basically says that they can't be used in their actual capacity as soldiers to enforce or execute laws. From what I understand when Trump sent them down there before they basically just stood around for a long time and did nothing. Though there was a revision to it passed in 2006 that allows them to be used in the event of a natural disaster, terrorist attack, or "other condition" (the exact wording). I really hope nobody brings that to Trump's attention. The caravan would immediately become a terrorist attack or some "other condition".

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1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

From a caravan of unarmed civilians who are traveling to the border for the purpose of applying to legally enter the country. 

 

Traveling TO the border or across it?

We do have a embassy in Mexico they will pass 

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Obviously, the Texas Governor needs to send some National Guard troops. To make sure this isn't cover for a federal invasion of Texas. 

 

2 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Traveling TO the border or across it?

We do have a embassy in Mexico they will pass 

 

I'm pretty sure that they have these places on the border where people stand around and obstruct traffic. 

Edited by Larry

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2 minutes ago, Larry said:

Obviously, the Texas Governor needs to send some National Guard troops. To make sure this isn't cover for a federal invasion of Texas. 

 

we already have state guard on the border, but national guard never hurts.(or so Obama thought)

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Well I, my wife and two teenage sons officially became legal permanent residents of the United States yesterday. So there goes the neighbourhood ...

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On 10/24/2018 at 1:43 PM, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

You were right, I was not aware of the direct US involvement which lead to the direct destabilizing civil war lasting over 40 years. I did not know that this morning. I know that this afternoon. This just wasnt some capitalistic banana company, this was direct US govt involvement.  

Keep digging, keep reading and widen your focus, US govt/military "intervention" in Central America has gone on WAY more than most realize or acknowledge. The essential reality of the Monroe Doctrine was "everyone keep out, these are ours". 

 

There are so many examples that they cannot be numbered, that's fine, history is and what happened happened but we today are obliged to at a minimum admit the truth of it all and act in our self interest here without the blinders, and that means correcting mistakes and not making the same ones over and over again.

 

The history of the last century would be wildly different if America genuinely believed the things it claims, all men are created equal and deserve basic inalienable rights.

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