visionary Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, s0crates said: 2. A lot of right wing commentators are pointing out that Obama did this kind of thing. Here's an article examining those claims: http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/barack-obama-ban-refugees-did-iraq-iraqi-muslim-trump-jimmy-carter-iran-iranian-immigration/ Been arguing with some of them today. My chief counter is: I don't care if Obama did something similar or not. My mother taught me at three that two wrongs don't make a right and if my friends jumped off a roof I shouldn't follow suit. If it's wrong. It's wrong. If it's right it's right. Judge Trump's actions on that metric. If you believe in checks and balances then Trump is wrong. If you believe in the Constitution then Trump is wrong. Who cares what Obama did on some unrelated issue? Obama's gone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, s0crates said: 1. The ACLU is fighting the good fight on this. https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/aclu-and-other-groups-challenge-trump-immigration-ban-after-refugees-detained 2. A lot of right wing commentators are pointing out that Obama did this kind of thing. Here's an article examining those claims: http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/barack-obama-ban-refugees-did-iraq-iraqi-muslim-trump-jimmy-carter-iran-iranian-immigration/ Donald and his minions like to deflect responsibility, this isn't about president Obama it's what YOU and your administration is doing right now to step on the constitution you jackass. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, Burgold said: Been arguing with some of them today. My chief counter is: I don't care if Obama did something similar or not. My mother taught me at three that two wrongs don't make a right and if my friends jumped off a roof I shouldn't follow suit. If it's wrong. It's wrong. If it's right it's right. Judge Trump's actions on that metric. If you believe in checks and balances then Trump is wrong. If you believe in the Constitution then Trump is wrong. Who cares what Obama did on some unrelated issue? Obama's gone. It's more a complaint about the left wingers reaction to both. Both are wrong. But I don't recall massive protests when their guy was doing it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: It's more a complaint about the left wingers reaction to both. Both are wrong. But I don't recall massive protests when their guy was doing it. As I said, I don't care. First principles in the US include freedom of Religion. Trump's attacking the core of the Constitution. He's trying to order people to ignore the courts. Checks and balances are also a key part of what makes the US important. You can act like a whining two year old and say, "but they did it too!" I don't care. Deal with the wrong at hand. I don't care if George Washington made a mistake a couple centuries ago either. This moment. This wrong. Stop it. Correct it. (Besides, Obama did not defy a court decision. That is what Trump is trying to do.) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: It's more a complaint about the left wingers reaction to both. Both are wrong. But I don't recall massive protests when their guy was doing it. Additionally: I don't remember those stories, guess I wasn't paying attention for whatever reason, but I thought terrorists didn't get in through refugee programs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Donald and his minions, love that word minion, spjunkies. And Burgold, I have been thinking Judge Dredd all morning. The original with Stallone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Burgold said: As I said, I don't care. First principles in the US include freedom of Religion. Trump's attacking the core of the Constitution. He's trying to order people to ignore the courts. Checks and balances are also a key part of what makes the US important. You can act like a whining two year old and say, "but they did it too!" I don't care. Deal with the wrong at hand. I don't care if George Washington made a mistake a couple centuries ago either. This moment. This wrong. Stop it. Correct it. (Besides, Obama did not defy a court decision. That is what Trump is trying to do.) I realize you didn't care then but do care now. I didnt care then and don't care now. But false equivalency! Or something. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I've heard the term 'illegal alien' on TV more this week than I care to remember. It reminded me of hearing it on the news as a kid, and I would perk up and pay attention because I thought I was gonna see some E.T. lookin' mofos get arrested. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Are there actual incidents where Customs is defying the court? If so, lock those people up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, Burgold said: As I said, I don't care. First principles in the US include freedom of Religion. Trump's attacking the core of the Constitution. He's trying to order people to ignore the courts. Checks and balances are also a key part of what makes the US important. You can act like a whining two year old and say, "but they did it too!" I don't care. Deal with the wrong at hand. I don't care if George Washington made a mistake a couple centuries ago either. This moment. This wrong. Stop it. Correct it. (Besides, Obama did not defy a court decision. That is what Trump is trying to do.) O certainly did defy court orders. Some just didn't pay attention then 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said: Are there actual incidents where Customs is defying the court? If so, lock those people up. A bunch of incidents since last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, visionary said: A bunch of incidents since last night. Those agents should be in jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Are there actual incidents where Customs is defying the court? If so, lock those people up. But they're only following orders from their commander in chef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) For a slightly different angle on the impact of this sort of immigration policy strategy: Quote We’re much less attractive as a country to very smart, mobile international students and researchers this week than we were last week. And I bet that we’ll be less attractive next week than this week. Think about the incentive for a twenty something looking to do a post-doc? They could come here and work with an awesome group but when they need to travel to a conference overseas they might not be allowed back into the country? Or they could go to Canada or Japan or Australia or the EU where they don’t have that new worry as a cost to their calculus of choice. Davis Anderson - Trump and the global creative class I don't want to get carried away off one weekend, but I think it's an important thought on the issue Edited January 29, 2017 by tshile 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, visionary said: A bunch of incidents since last night. Werent they supposedly instructed by the WH to ignore the courts? I don't know how true that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, Llevron said: Werent they supposedly instructed by the WH to ignore the courts? I don't know how true that is Yeah supposedly. That's why I feel bad for people caught in the middle, maybe afraid to lose their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Llevron said: Werent they supposedly instructed by the WH to ignore the courts? I don't know how true that is That's why I was asking. I've heard people on the shows say this was a dangerous problem, but I had not heard of an actual incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, tshile said: For a slightly different angle on the impact of this sort of immigration policy strategy: Davis Anderson - Trump and the global creative class I hear Canada has some hot women to keep you warm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Just now, Kilmer17 said: That's why I was asking. I've heard people on the shows say this was a dangerous problem, but I had not heard of an actual incident. How do you feel about Twitter sources? Lots of stories on twitter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan1523 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Ok I'm ignorant I'll confess. This is only a 90 day ban, and only is coming from 7 war torn countries, that could possibly be infiltrated by terrorist organizations. What am I missing here here as far as this outrage is concerned. It seems like a new administration is just upping the vetting process to me. But like I said I'm ignorant to this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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