I admit, I was wrong about Joe Barry

[TSO]

I read all of that subs and you're right on.

 

You don't have to lie.

[Morneblade]

Way too much to quote here, but I'll try to answer:

1. I assume he agrees with Doc, or he would have disputed it. I also agree with Doc.

2. I know Hood well, he rarely played NT on passing situations in Pitts. I watch a lot of Pittsburg games (Wife is a huge fan) but he is a 3-4 DE and that is where he is best. Everything I saw Reyes do was from the DE position. I'm going to guess if he did play some NT, it was during 3rd and long. My opinion is that I don't want either there on 1st and 10 or and and 5 or any down/distance where it's not must throw. They don't do it well enough.So, I do not consider them NT's. And I think Barry is just throwing them there.

4. Baker/Ioannidis: from what I have heard he will not be playing NT, they want him at DE. He has stated he doesn't want to play NT. If he is announced as the starting NT, I won't have anything negative to say about it and I'll feel much better about the DL overall. I'd actually like to be wrong about this. And I don't trust a 5th round rook that was mostly DE/DT and needs to add weight to be the starter. Yet. Love him in rotation though.

 

5. Golston. Good when he had Knighton beside him in short yardage. However in base, not so good. And if you go back and see what I think of him, I've always liked him and was a big fan when we got him. Great story actually. Had a horrible car accident his Sr year in high school and I think he almost died. Came back from a lot. So, it's not that I don't like him. My issue is that he's best at a DT in a 4-3 and has been mismatched for a long time. High effort guy. And I see him get moved a lot when it's not 4th and 1. He's never looked good in a 3-4, even at DE. Which is why he has always been depth.

 

6. Philosophy. This was another point that didn't make sense. Just because you're shaded doesn't mean you're doubled teamed. We play a 3-4 under in base, so we have a LB on the line, That's 4 vs 5, the only guy that is generally going to be doubled teamed is the NT. Not always, G's pull, might keep a TE in to block, ect, but it's usually the NT. Because of flex in the A gap that we usually play with, it's almost natural. Then we play a lot of 5-2 Okie a lot on passing downs. Again NT gets a lot of double teams unless you stunt of A (1) gab blitz.

 

7. Lastly, you're right. I don't trust Barry. And maybe that makes me glass half empty on him.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

We're saying "**** it" and going all out blitz, 46 Bear defense. It's pretty obvious from the players we're adding.

Cravens jamming TEs

Hall, Norman, Breeland in straight man

Incessant blitzing from Kerrigan, Smith, and Gallette

I'm kidding but it would be fun.

[Koolblue13]

You don't have to lie.

I really did. I posted earlier that he refuses to listen to anyone explain how our defense works and our personnel fits it. I knew you'd make a good point.

I think morneblades refusal to accept our defense is frustrating enough, that I'd actually read an entire wall of your text.

[pjfootballer]

Watch tape on Jay Ratliff. I dare you.

[Morneblade]

We're saying "**** it" and going all out blitz, 46 Bear defense. It's pretty obvious from the players we're adding.

Cravens jamming TEs

Hall, Norman, Breeland in straight man

Incessant blitzing from Kerrigan, Smith, and Gallette

I'm kidding but it would be fun.

 

Yeah, that would be fun. Just as long as Hazlett isn't calling it.

 

I really did. I posted earlier that he refuses to listen to anyone explain how our defense works and our personnel fits it. I knew you'd make a good point.

I think morneblades refusal to accept our defense is frustrating enough, that I'd actually read an entire wall of your text.

 

Accept our defense. I know how it works. I see a hole. You don't. I don't trust  Barry. You probably do.  I think we can leave it at that.

 

Watch tape on Jay Ratliff. I dare you.

 

Oh, like I've never done that before. But we don't have Jay Ratliff, do we? Or anyone like him. Baker is probably the closest, you disagree?

[TSO]

Btw, comparing Barry to Haslett, or saying it's a lateral move... I don't know, that's tough for me to accept. 

 

One of the reasons I'm ardently defending Barry is because, from day one, I got the sense that his approach is the total opposite from Haslett's. It's essentially the antithesis to Haslett's approach. 

 

Whereas Haslett would be completely terrible with regards to scoring Defense, situational D in general, but most specifically the most important down in football (3rd downs), yet he'd sit there and point at our "overall ranking" that only looks at yardage, as if somehow that was important, and then he'd mention injuries to blame for when that part of it would regress... 

 

Barry, on the other hand, has been the complete opposite. He's essentially stated that he doesn't care about yardage stats as opposed to everything else (turnovers, situational D, scoring D), though he'd want that to be better (he tied it into tackling, mainly). Furthermore, he's always saying how it's important not to use injuries as an excuse, all his guys are "starters in waiting", etc... 

 

And this is coming from someone who is pretty adamant about how much more significant personnel is than coaching. It's not even close in my mind. So I totally acknowledge that Barry had better personnel than Haslett, and Haslett would've probably done better last season than he had in previous seasons with the defensive personnel we had. But, for whatever significance coaching does have (it is significant, of course, don't make the logical fallacy of assuming I think it isn't because I believe personnel outweighs it heavily), I think Barry has a much better approach and ability to reach his players than Haslett.     

 

Way too much to quote here, but I'll try to answer:

1. I assume he agrees with Doc, or he would have disputed it. I also agree with Doc.

2. I know Hood well, he rarely played NT on passing situations in Pitts. I watch a lot of Pittsburg games (Wife is a huge fan) but he is a 3-4 DE and that is where he is best. Everything I saw Reyes do was from the DE position. I'm going to guess if he did play some NT, it was during 3rd and long. My opinion is that I don't want either there on 1st and 10 or and and 5 or any down/distance where it's not must throw. They don't do it well enough.So, I do not consider them NT's. And I think Barry is just throwing them there.

4. Baker/Ioannidis: from what I have heard he will not be playing NT, they want him at DE. He has stated he doesn't want to play NT. If he is announced as the starting NT, I won't have anything negative to say about it and I'll feel much better about the DL overall. I'd actually like to be wrong about this. And I don't trust a 5th round rook that was mostly DE/DT and needs to add weight to be the starter. Yet. Love him in rotation though.

 

5. Golston. Good when he had Knighton beside him in short yardage. However in base, not so good. And if you go back and see what I think of him, I've always liked him and was a big fan when we got him. Great story actually. Had a horrible car accident his Sr year in high school and I think he almost died. Came back from a lot. So, it's not that I don't like him. My issue is that he's best at a DT in a 4-3 and has been mismatched for a long time. High effort guy. And I see him get moved a lot when it's not 4th and 1. He's never looked good in a 3-4, even at DE. Which is why he has always been depth.

 

6. Philosophy. This was another point that didn't make sense. Just because you're shaded doesn't mean you're doubled teamed. We play a 3-4 under in base, so we have a LB on the line, That's 4 vs 5, the only guy that is generally going to be doubled teamed is the NT. Not always, G's pull, might keep a TE in to block, ect, but it's usually the NT. Because of flex in the A gap that we usually play with, it's almost natural. Then we play a lot of 5-2 Okie a lot on passing downs. Again NT gets a lot of double teams unless you stunt of A (1) gab blitz.

 

7. Lastly, you're right. I don't trust Barry. And maybe that makes me glass half empty on him.

 

1) Then I'd say you're assuming wrong, since Barry's answer pretty much disputes Doc's understanding. That is, if Doc is saying you need a big, space-eating, fatty in the middle and they're the only guys who can do it. Barry definitely is disputing that. I mean, he says "you always say 'oh my God, you have to have this BIG....' " and then goes on to dispute that.   

 

2) He clearly is signifying a rotation here. He's not saying one guy is going to do it the entire time. The point is, there will be some rotation of whomever among these guys can do it best WITHIN OUR 1-GAPPING SCHEME, be it Baker, Ziggy, Reyes, Golston, Ioannidis and/or someone else who emerges from the undrafted guys or elsewhere.

 

Now, I can't argue with you about the "they don't do it well enough" bit regarding those guys, because I just don't know. Haven't seen it. But I also am not going to just take your word for it there, brother. Going to need some more evidence than just "yeah, I know them, they suck at it".

 

And all of this disregards just how little of the time we are in our base formation. It's kind of silly to be freaking out about it right now. It's hard to envision some massive problem on early downs where the offense has more big guys and in short yardage while we match with our base D just because we don't have a traditional 330+ pound NT there... just seems like you're ignoring a lot to be so worried about it.  

There is a pretty big difference between the 1-gap penetrate quickly scheme versus the 2-gap read-and-react scheme, I know you know that... but you seem to just ignore it too often. In the former, you'd rather have as many guys who can penetrate (read: more versatile, quicker) than guys who can stand up and not be moved while they're reading the backfield. 

 

It's just a fact of life that in the former, you might give up more big runs, but you're also more likely to create a lot of opportunities in the backfield (TFLs, sacks and turnovers). The latter is safer, but you don't get as many opportunities in the backfield. It's give and take. 

 

We all constantly ask our D coordinators to "be more aggressive". Well, the difference in scheme here and, thus, the difference in the type Dlinemen we're looking for is basically doing just that.   

 

Just have to accept that as a part of it. If we tackle better on the second level, that'll minimize that negative within the scheme. So, yeah, maybe the RB will get past our Dline when we're in our 3-4 base a bunch of times during the game, but our LBers/Safeties should tackle better to minimize the damage. But then we get the benefit of getting a bunch more Tackle For Losses, Sacks, and thus Turnovers throughout the game.

 

Hence, all of our moves this offseason.   

 

3) See above #2.

 

4) Going to disagree about Golston. Don't remember it being exclusively about having Knighton beside him, but Knighton was not this incredible space-eating clog in the middle the entire year. He'd often get neutralized pretty easily, especially early on in the season. He didn't get pushed back, necessarily, but he definitely wouldn't penetrate. So I'd be hard-pressed to believe that Golston was benefiting so greatly from him, and would now fail miserably without him. But, again, I'd believe you if you'd present something more than just your view of it.    

 

And I'd say he actually looked good last season, so I'm going to disagree there as well. He never looked good in Haslett's 3-4, I agree, but then you didn't qualify your statement with that.

 

5) He was exclusively talking about the Dline here so, technically, were there 6 blockers (5 Oline and 1 TE) and only 3 Dlinemen (a 1, 3 and 5 tech), which is the context he put it in (go back and re-read the quote), you'd see a double team for each spot. At any point, a 5 tech can get double-teamed by a TE and Tackle, whether it happens often or not. Same with a 3 tech or 1 tech. 

 

That being said, I don't think he meant it literally or that it's the same every time. Obviously you're trying to get as many one-on-one situations as possible and you're including your LBers in the deal. But the context here was about the Dline, exclusively. He was just pointing out that guys have to be able to take on double teams no matter where they're lined up, and they have to be strong. It's not always about size, and it's not always about being a space-eater to stop the run, he wants guys who can split double teams and penetrate because they can run.  

 

 So I don't see why it doesn't make sense to you. Just sounds like you're nitpicking.

 

6) Hey, I don't blame you for not trusting him. The yardage stats suck, and we gave up too many big runs, so there's a lot to improve. But, overall, there's more good than bad from what I saw when analyzing it more deeply. So I just believe that distrust comes more from a lack of understanding than it does from any objective criticism of his coaching ability. 

 

I think morneblades refusal to accept our defense is frustrating enough, that I'd actually read an entire wall of your text.

 

Oh, shut up.

[TSO]

Since this thread has turned into a semi-Dline thread, I wanted to say something that I think gets overlooked (and just change this discussion as I'm sure everyone is tired of it, lol). 

 

But, is it just me, or was Ricky Jean-Francois like really, really good last season? Good as in, had he been a high-priced Free Agent with a big name, people would've been raving about the pickup? 

 

I just remember him constantly doing good things on the field, not to mention his leadership.

 

Is he as underrated as I think he is, or am I just remembering the good he did and forgetting the bad?  

[Koolblue13]

Since this thread has turned into a semi-Dline thread, I wanted to say something that I think gets overlooked (and just change this discussion as I'm sure everyone is tired of it, lol).

But, is it just me, or was Ricky Jean-Francois like really, really good last season? Good as in, had he been a high-priced Free Agent with a big name, people would've been raving about the pickup?

I just remember him constantly doing good things on the field, not to mention his leadership.

Is he as underrated as I think he is, or am I just remembering the good he did and forgetting the bad?

he did really well. Didn't put up monster stats, but solid. Paea should be better too, now that he's healthy. I think our defense will surprise some people. ILB is the only issue in my mind. I hope Compton improves. It's only his third year.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think Joe Barry in some ways got lucky last year with all of the injuries.  It kept him out of the spotlight, and kept expectations low.  Now he's in his second year, guys are more comfortable with the system, and we've added more talent at key positions (most notably corner and pass rusher, and fingers crossed for Cravens).

 

I still have major doubts about Barry, but there's no doubt that he's in a much better position to succeed this season.  I do really like the defensive staff he's put together, and I hope they can make some big steps forward.  

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

We're saying "**** it" and going all out blitz, 46 Bear defense. It's pretty obvious from the players we're adding.

Cravens jamming TEs

Hall, Norman, Breeland in straight man

Incessant blitzing from Kerrigan, Smith, and Gallette

I'm kidding but it would be fun.

I don't know why you're kidding here.  That sounds like a brilliant plan to me.  

 

I know our hands were tied a bit last season, but I want to be more aggressive this year.  I truly think Barry wants that too, but I'll be relieved when I see it.  

[skinny21]

I don't know why you're kidding here. That sounds like a brilliant plan to me.

I know our hands were tied a bit last season, but I want to be more aggressive this year. I truly think Barry wants that too, but I'll be relieved when I see it.

I have no idea if he will be more aggressive, but between it being a new system, and the rash of injuries, I don't believe he had much choice or chance to do so. Here's hoping improvement on the backend (I really like the corner group and I see some potential at safety) propels the defense towards more more attacking.

Picking up Galette and Cravens (gotta believe Barry had a degree of say there), and even Norman/Fuller, seemingly points to the desire to get more aggressive.

MorneBlade - Just to be clear, I'm not exactly bullish on the Dline, it's more your seeming certainty that we 1) made a big mistake not drafting Billings, 2) that we don't have a capable player (or even a viable option) at NT and now 3) your strong doubts of Barry, that are spurring my defense. I've said similar things before about those that have criticized Scot - question him, sure... but don't jump to criticize. Same deal with Barry, Gruden, our players, etc.

Basically, I'm sitting in the middle (I call myself an optimistic skeptic) and inviting you to join me.

They're following a process... it won't be perfect, by any stretch (who knows... maybe they should have drafted Billings, maybe they should have pushed for hiring Phillips), but it's helpful to step back and look at what has occurred thus far, and what they're working towards.

To continue that thought, I can't overstate how much I love the direction we're heading. The FAs we picked up, the guys we re-signed, the extensions and the past two drafts... tons of smart moves far outweighing the misses. It's certainly possible the NT/DL situation doesn't work out, for example, but this team is consistently improving. The best part is that they're not exclusively focused on the short term - and this is from the FO to the coaches to the personnel - they are truly building something that could/should last.

[TSO]

Yeah, I'd add the same thing as skinny21 here as well. I'm not saying there's no reason for concern regarding the Dline. I can totally see it as being an issue this season.

But, at the same time, I can see what they're trying to do overall and we've got to acknowledge that you just can't fill every hole perfectly. Every team has a weakness or two, and we've come a loooooooong way with this roster from where it was just a year ago.

It's kind of like the Oline. I see some panic regarding center and I can't help but laugh because we did win 9 games with the same group that's coming back, healthier and with a second year under Callahan. And they were pretty awesome at pass blocking.

Now, I get the angst and I know we all want to be contenders right away, but if that's our biggest issue we can live with it. We did last season.

I know, I know. Weak division, didn't beat teams with winning records, no run game, blah blah blah. Yeah well most teams that won more than they lost, much the same can be said about them. The friggin Broncos won the Super Bowl with a terrible offense. It was disgusting, I know firsthand because I watched most of their games last season (in laws are huge Bronco fans).

If we're going to suck, it's not going to be because of the Center position and a lack of a traditional NT, lol.

It's going to take a major regression from Kirk, no improvement in the run game a second year under Callahan, and the defense falling apart at numerous positional groups (or one group being so ridiculously bad it destroys everything). God forbid, lol.

Tough to envision that.

Honestly, I think those who are bothered so much by Center or NT think we're at a point where we can win it all if those spots are taken care of. I'm not sure we're there yet, fellas. But I like the optimism.

[Koolblue13]

I think if we get hot at the right time, some guys who aren't on the radar yet step up, we could win it all.

If the offense clicks like it did the end of last year, but the TEs start to block and Jones pulls it together. If Josh and Bash do shut it down, Cravens is the next TP, Compton makes a big jump in his third year. Our safeties stay healthy and our line holds.

Why can't we be there yet?

[HTTRDynasty]

Here is a good breakdown that goes over the schemes Barry likes to use in base and nickel situations.  At that point of the season, a lack of sacks was a huge problem for us, because our two best pass rushers kept almost getting to the QB, but kept whiffing.  Also, the loss of Ihenacho in the run game had much more of an impact than most realize.  The guys playing behind him really limited our ability to stop the run in our nickel defense.  Teams like the Packers realized that we couldn't stop the run once we were forced to play nickel.

 

An Underrated Position: The Strong Safety

One of the biggest losses the Redskins suffered at the beginning of the season was to strong safety Duke Ihenacho. In the first game of the season, he dislocated and fractured his left wrist ending his season prematurely. There was a clear difference between having him on the field and not having him on the field as #34 Trenton Robinson struggled mightily in run support in the box. Here is an example with Duke Ihenacho:

 

While these two plays are certainly cherry-picking extremes, they do illustrate the basic trend of the team and how mch of an impact the strong safety position has for the Redskins defense. So this begs the question: Why does the strong safety position matter so much in this defense?

 

Under Joe Barry, the Redskins love to walk the strong safety into the box for run support as the “third” linebacker when the opposing team brings out three wide receiver sets. Ihenacho’s aggressiveness and willingness to play run defense solidified the front seven when they needed an extra defensive back on the field.

 

 

Luckily, we shored up both those weaknesses this off-season by 1) Getting Galette back 2) Getting Ihenacho back 3) Signing Bruton this off-season 4) Drafting Su'a Cravens 5) Getting more ILBs that can stack and shed. 

 

We should be much better at defending the run and getting after the passer, with those additions, than we were last year.  Not to mention, Norman should buy us an extra half-second to get after the QB, so more of those whiffs turn into sacks.

[Burgold]

I still don't know what to make of Barry. I think he's better than Haslett, but where does he stack up in terms of X's and O's or the ability to change tack on the fly? Is he a good game planner?

 

Seems it took him about six games to fix (kind of fix) the way we were getting gashed on sweeps. Some of that is personnel, but some of it has to be him too. I mean the way we were being run on was unusual in how routinely average runners were becoming elite against us. 

 

I suspect he's somewhere in the average range. He doesn't really innovate, but does solid work. Problem is, he doesn't have many answers when something goes wrong. On the other hand, he and his staff did an amazing job keeping the ship afloat with off the street vets and rookies. As teachers, they may be A+. Just look at the job Quinton Dunbar and Kyoshen Jarrett did. 

 

So, as I said at the beginning... I don't know that we have an answer when it comes to Barry. This season should get us much closer.

[RandyHolt]

I am not sold on Barry.  He did deal with a lot of injuries. But injuries aside, I think he was more passive than I would have preferred. Being aggressive with him, was to bring 5. And it was just a few times a game. IIRC, he rarely and maybe closer to never brought more than 5.  We simply didn't get to the QB much and its a defense killer, and turnover killer. 

 

With our horrid run D numbers, I feel like he should have run blitzed far more often than he did. If they passed, well its a pass blitz too. He was a bit too predictable week to week.  At least he didn't stay bend don't break 24/7, but did have games where it was clearly in his game plan.

 

Given playoffs to use when formulating grades, i like those to carry extra weight. Barry vs Rodgers yeah I know, but still. We looked like we never recovered from GB seeing our run nose out and going hurry up on us. It's like we had no idea they would hurry up on us, when I think it needs to game planned for weekly now.  

 

We could use a DL/F7 thread. Or rename the thread to include all D discussion.. 

[Koolblue13]

I think Barry was in his first real year as a DC and its a hard job.

I don't count Detroit, because Detroit.

We brought him in a LB coach and I think it'll have the same impact giving Jay an OLine and QB did.

You can discount injuries and talent all you want, but we finished the season with 2 different starting ILB, no strong safety. An injured corner playing free. Will Blackmon starting at corner. An undrafted WR playing corner and a tired old line with headaches.

I like what I've seen from Barry scheme wise. I love fewells 3 safety sets. I like the players on the line, they're hungry and in their prime. I also like all of our additions.

I think our defense makes a Moses like jump this year, to go along with a very high powered offence and we will dominate a lot of games.

[TSO]

I think if we get hot at the right time, some guys who aren't on the radar yet step up, we could win it all.

If the offense clicks like it did the end of last year, but the TEs start to block and Jones pulls it together. If Josh and Bash do shut it down, Cravens is the next TP, Compton makes a big jump in his third year. Our safeties stay healthy and our line holds.

Why can't we be there yet?

 

Well, you did notice all those ifs, right?

 

But, hey, could happen. Would be awesome. And I do think we're getting close. 

 

As for Barry, those who criticize him routinely ignore a few things that make it hard for me to accept their thoughts as legitimate. Those things are:

 

1) Where the defense was before he arrived. 

 

2) Situational Defense (3rd downs, end of game, goalline, etc...)

 

3) Scoring D

 

4) Turnovers

 

5) Injuries 

 

 

If we include all the above in the discussion, it changes the perception of what he did last year big time. Unfortunately, I see those things often ignored while the yardage stats (which is idiotically the "overall ranking" according to the NFL) get magnified.   

 

Amazingly, I'd put 2-4 on that list above yardage stats/overall ranking. Those who used to defend Haslett would essentially focus on yardage stats (there'd be periods of time where we'd actually be good there, but then would regress in that too).

 

Whereas Haslett had us holding teams to low yardage totals and we'd look good in the overall rankings for a small period of time, we would routinely give up plays at the worst times (especially third down) and teams would score on us in the redzone with relative ease. Oh, and we'd never give the offense an opportunity to win at the end of games. Teams would close the deal more often than not. 

 

Barry was the opposite. We got gashed for a bunch of yards in the running game (especially through week 4-9 or something), but we actually stopped people on 3rd downs at a pretty good rate, held teams to FGs in the redzone, and generally gave our offense a chance to win and/or sealed the deal at the end.    

 

That should say everything we need to know about the value of those yardage stats in comparison to the others, lol. 

[Koolblue13]

There's always a lot of ifs and its always fun to see where the football rolls.

[Skinsinparadise]

I really have a hard time getting a feel for Barry.  He had a bad hand last year, no doubt.  Did he make lemonade out of lemons?  IMO, not. The idea that defensive coordinators can't turn around defenses overnight -- isn't actually true, Gregg did it here.  Zimmer took over a bad defense and made them good within a year and now they are super.  Other examples of that, too.  Having said that, I am ok with seeing what Barry does this year before I have a verdict about him.  

 

I do think he has enough talent to have this defense make a major leap assuming they don't get killed by injuries.   I wasn't much of a Jay guy after his first year, I did give a disclaimer at the time that the dude can potentially make a big leap from year 1 to year #2.  And IMO he did it and I didn't think he would make that leap.  To my eyes Jay didn't exude competence in year 1 but did indeed do so in year 2.    

 

It's purely subjective on my end, and its hard for me to put into words how I arrive at my impression but watching Barry he doesn't strike me as anything special, yet.   For me maybe my take on good defensive coordinators are driven by those that have a funky outside the box approach to game planning.  I recall for example in the pivotal game against Minnesota during the playoff run in 2007 -- Gregg played with 4 linebackers (85 Bears style) to stop Peterson and John Madden who was doing commentary on the game was fawning about it. Gregg used to love his exotic blitzes where one year Shawn Springs lead the team in sacks.  I don't think Gregg's defenses were ultra talented.  They IMO overachieved.    

 

I don't get that same vibe from Barry.  But I do think this year is a better gauge for what he can do.   So my impression might change after this season.  Don't hate Barry being the coordinator don't love it either.  But I am open to be moved one way or another year.  Though I don't buy into the thought that's it's ALL about talent and coaching is overrated especially when it comes to defense.  There are specific coordinators that tend to make a dent wherever they go and often these defenses take a step up -- I just don't buy that its incidental and coincidence each time it happens.  

[Koolblue13]

I don't think Barry did a good job last year. Barely passable really, but we're bringing in very scheme specific people, putting good coaches in place and I think it gives Barry the comfort of knowing he has all the time and tools to improve.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I think it gives Barry the comfort of knowing he has all the time and tools to improve.

I think it does the exact opposite in regards to time.  I think it means it's no excuses time for Barry.  I realize it's his second year and that's a tough way to look at it, but it's a tough business.  

 

Barry doesn't have the resume to demand a longer leash.  

[TSO]

Don't feel like getting into a back and forth about it, SIP, but let's just say I disagree with about every single point you made in that last post (plus the "ALL about talent" comment was a bit of a straw man, but I forgive you) and feel pretty comfortable with the evidence I have as to why, lol.

I've laid it out enough, though. I'm bored at this point.

So let's just hope you're as wrong as you were about Jay. Eventually you'll learn not to disagree with me about these things.

[goskins10]

I admit to be an optimist. But I also like to be data driven. They are a lot of data points either being ignored or some how rationalized away.

 

1. Yes, the yards/game were not good. No where what you need. But you do realize that we went from 29th in pts/gm to 17th! That's 12 positions in one season! I honestly could care less about yds but admittedly that's just me. And yes I was consistent with Haslett. He had better yds sometimes and then sucked at pts/gm. Also, the last"top 10" D we had in yards, we were 18th in pts!  Not sure why people focus so much of yards when it's pts that win and lose games!

 

2. I see many comments that go something like this: Yea, he had a lot of injuries, but still......  to those people, you do realize we started 11 different people at DB, most in the NFL! One of those DBs was a converted WR. Another one was signed the same week we played the PO game against GB!!  Our ILBs came off the street! Our Ss were a mash unit! You can't afford to be that aggressive when you are not sure people even know their assignments! So yes, he played a watered down D most of the season. But it's a huge stretch given the injuries to assume Barry's philosophy is to never send more than 5. Those same people complaining about that would be besides themselves when we send the house and get burned for a TD!!

 

3. If you have to send more than 5 on a regular basis you will not win many football games. Decent QBs/Offenses will eat you alive, especially with the zones we play. You can do that al little more if you paly more man, but we had one guy that could match up man on WRs. The rest were just not capable.

 

4. Citing a few outlier DCs that turned things around is first year is kind of useless. They are clearly the outliers. Also, you have to look at who they had. Can anyone honestly say we had the talent, especially with the injuries to be a top D? If anyone says yes, they are just not being honest. Hence the attention that's been paid to the D during the draft and offseason.

 

My position on Barry is we really have no idea what kind of Dc he is other than he and the other D coaches are clearly very good teachers, something we have not had here in a vey long time. I will definitely agree that without to same crazy injuries, Barry has the tools to make a big step in the right direction. But even so, Ds need to play together. He gets a pass on last year due to lack of talent and the multitude of injuries. I expect a different result this year. .