goskins10 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 best thing Barry had working for him was Kirk Cousins ... keeping drives alive ... more scoring less punting ... owning the clock and forcing the opposition to do the same, better or lose. War of clock attrition with our offense getting more points per possession then they have in years ... beyond that ... lets consider Barry was starting 2 ILB who were deep back-ups or out of work at the beginning of the season ... and multiple DBs who were out of work at the beginning of the season or long shot rookies. I can appreciate the lack of blitzing in order to keep the weak backfield from being too exposed ... and most of the time I can appreciate the ability to pressure the QB without blitzing. I do want to see keener and more successful in-game responses to the opposition ... adjustments etc. Old enough to remember Richie Pettibon .. he was the king. Tough defense in the first half and better defense in the second half adjusting to what was happening on both sides of the ball. Football-god! Hope Barry channels him some Pettibon. It could very well be argued that the best thing Richie had going for him was a great off. We had a great running game and typically led the time of possession. Those were some great offensive teams. I am not saying Richie was not a great DC. I too remember us coming out and taking it up a notch in the second half. I remember those games vividly. Those Ds were fun to watch. But he had some pretty good talent to work with. But we need to get away from expecting these guys to be like guys from our history. Barry needs to be Barry. He was pretty strapped this year with injuries and not the best talent to begin with. Let's see how he does once Scot get's him some better talent and hopefully not have to play too many games with 3 guys literally off the street. We finished the season with 3 defensive starters that were not even on the team for the first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Yeah, I'd say it's a bit unfair to hold our offensive time of possession against Barry. That certainly helps, but there were plenty of games where we weren't scoring many points and our defense actually kept us in it the entire time. We hardly even capitalized on turnovers. But you look at the great D's around the league, almost all have the same thing going for them. Panthers? Run first offense, very balanced. Seattle? Same thing for the most part, though this season they struggled a little with that. But then, so did their Defense because of it. They certainly weren't as feared there as in previous years. Cardinals? Very balanced offense. Chiefs? Same thing. Maybe the Broncos, Texans and Rams are very good defense's without the benefit of a solid or balanced O, though their O's do rely more on running the ball. They just stink, lol. With the exception of the Broncos, who were more middling this year than just terrible. I'm not sure you can have a good D without an O that holds on to the ball in today's NFL. At least not consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzplay Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Have to say that, like most everybody on here, I was very surprised at how the defense performed this season. There have been years when we've lost guys to injury and that was used as an excuse to prop up incompetent defensive coaching. Barry lost tons of guys, and still got much more out of the unit than anyone could have expected. Part of that credit goes to Barry, and a heck of a lot of it goes to McCloughan, too, of course. Let's see what Barry can do with a stocked arsenal. I'm excited at the prospects. Still can't help but wonder what Wade would've done with some of our guys, especially Kerrigan. Might've been quite special. But you've gotta let your coaches bring in their own guys. Next season, bring the heat, Barry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 We should settle on the definition of "Good D". To me there's three stats that points in this direction: - Turnovers. - 3rd down efficiency. - Points Against. All categories where we seem to be on the rise right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Watching the AFC Championship game yesterday, I couldn't help but wonder what our defense would have been like with Phillips as DC. I think Barry did a pretty good job esp. as teacher and mad scientists making all the scrap pile and jury rigged pieces fit, but still... I think Phillips wanted to come here too. Who knows though? Heck, I don't even know if he would have been better, worse, or the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Watching the AFC Championship game yesterday, I couldn't help but wonder what our defense would have been like with Phillips as DC. I think Barry did a pretty good job esp. as teacher and mad scientists making all the scrap pile and jury rigged pieces fit, but still... I think Phillips wanted to come here too. Who knows though? Heck, I don't even know if he would have been better, worse, or the same. With our injuries, on top of already being below average in terms of talent, I doubt we'd be that much better. Maybe we finish around 20th instead of 28th, but we'd still likely have been bad. Denver has studs up and down their D. No Wares or Millers in our front seven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 With our injuries, on top of already being below average in terms of talent, I doubt we'd be that much better. Maybe we finish around 20th instead of 28th, but we'd still likely have been bad. Denver has studs up and down their D. No Wares or Millers in our front seven. I would not characterize our D as "bad". Yes, the yds/gm were high. But pts/gm were improved from 29th in the league to 17th. We also increased our TOs quite a bit. If there was one thing the Off really struggled with was scoring after a TO. We went long stretches (multiple games) without scoring at all off TOs. I am not saying we were good either. Wed certainly have lot's of room to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Watching the AFC Championship game yesterday, I couldn't help but wonder what our defense would have been like with Phillips as DC. I think Barry did a pretty good job esp. as teacher and mad scientists making all the scrap pile and jury rigged pieces fit, but still... I think Phillips wanted to come here too. Who knows though? Heck, I don't even know if he would have been better, worse, or the same. I'm still upset we didn't go after him. I think he would have made a big difference. I'd go after Mike Singletary this offseason. I'm not sold on Barry at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFromYellowstone Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Joe Barry is a below average coordinator. I'm still angry we passed on Wade Phillips when he actually WANTED the job for a guy that led an awful defense on an 0-16 team. I really don't see the logic behind the move AT ALL. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/01/27/broncos-owe-super-bowl-50-trip-to-passed-over-defensive-mastermind-wade-phillips/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Guess you're one year late Steve... Take a look at the personnel he inherited in Denver and the gazillions of injuries we had. Wade Philips would have had a heart attack in here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Well, Barry has a lot to prove next year. Yea, I was the happiest man on earth when we FINALLY got rid of 'you know who', but if he doesn't get this defense up & going next season, it'll be 'you know who 2.0' in my books; there is talent on this team and injuries probably played a part, but when it came down to it, when the pressure was on in the playoffs, the adjustments, or lack of, was clear. The defense fell apart after the 1st qtr, and it was up to GB to adjust to begin scoring, and they did. The secondary needs serious work, there needs to be players who can handle bigger WRs and TEs, who can play smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Wade Philips would have had a heart attack in here... He didnt have a heart attack when he took over the 30th ranked Texans defense and made it the 2nd ranked defense the next year. Imo he would have survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 He didnt have a heart attack when he took over the 30th ranked Texans defense and made it the 2nd ranked defense the next year. Imo he would have survived. Wade is historically a 1 to 2 hit wonder. In Houston: 2010 (before he got there) - Yds/GM - 30th Pts/GM - 29th 2011 - Yds/GM - 2nd Pts/GM - 4th 2012 - Yds/GM - 7th Pts/GM - 9th 2013 - Yds/GM - 7th Pts/GM - 24th Also, let's not forget he took over the 3rd ranked D in the NFL. It's not like he came into this mess. The talent level is not even close. And people need to stop discounting injuries. We had 3 guys starting, not backups but starting that were not even on the team to start the season!! One guy was signed the last week of the season! You can't even begin to open up your playbook. You have to paly pretty vanilla. Their main goal against GB was to keep everything underneath. They pretty much did that. They got beat by one of the top 10 QBs in NFL history! BTW: He improved this team from 29th to 17th in pt/gm. I have no idea if Barry will be great, or even good, but to look at this season without looking at all variables is not value added. SM will put more energy into the DLine, even more so than last year. We also need help at S and DB. Another ILB would not hurt either. If we can stay healthy, I am anxious to see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Joe Barry is a below average coordinator. I'm still angry we passed on Wade Phillips when he actually WANTED the job for a guy that led an awful defense on an 0-16 team. I really don't see the logic behind the move AT ALL. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/01/27/broncos-owe-super-bowl-50-trip-to-passed-over-defensive-mastermind-wade-phillips/ How many SB rings does Wade Phillips have? - 0 (as of right now, although I hope he gets one today, I would prefer Den. win).Wade Phillips lost the last and only SB he coached in 55-10 (he was DC for the Broncos). Barry has never been there. At least he does not have a bad PO history. Maybe we wanted to try and do better than a little better than average but always come up short when it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 How many SB rings does Wade Phillips have? - 0 (as of right now, although I hope he gets one today, I would prefer Den. win).Wade Phillips lost the last and only SB he coached in 55-10 (he was DC for the Broncos). Barry has never been there. At least he does not have a bad PO history. Maybe we wanted to try and do better than a little better than average but always come up short when it counts. tough to get a SB recond, when you can't win a single game as a DC. OlsI'm not against Barry, even kind of like him. Just found that funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 tough to get a SB recond, when you can't win a single game as a DC. Ols I'm not against Barry, even kind of like him. Just found that funny. It was meant to funny so glad you laughed. For the record, until today Wade had only been to one SB, the one he lost horribly. BTW: I am Wade P. fan. I liked him and was hoping he was hired here but when he wasn't I was not that upset either. I knew he would only be a short term solution and we would be looking again in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 The defense fell apart after the 1st qtr, and it was up to GB to adjust to begin scoring, and they did. The secondary needs serious work, there needs to be players who can handle bigger WRs and TEs, who can play smart. The defense didn't fell apart after the 1st Q. Aaron Rodgers stop throwing incomplete passes. That's what happens. Dude was something like 1/10 during the first against the wind. Once they changed side, it started again. We had to play it simple on D, play some huge pass D to make sure you don't get torched for 30+ yards on each play... You can only adjusts to what you have and what you can do. At the end of the year, we were playing the 4th, 5th and 6th stringer in the secondary... What do you expect your DC to do in such a case? Wasn't perfect by any means, lots of work to do again, but geez, the guy wasn't able to field it's entire starting team for at least one play in the whole season. Nonetheless he was able to improve our D and mask lots of our weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I don't know what we have in Barry. The defense got hot at the right time but it's unclear if this was just luck/momentum or good coaching coming through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I don't care what anyone says, I'm certain Phillips would have been better than Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I don't care what anyone says, I'm certain Phillips would have been better than Barry. Maybe. But there ain't no Von Millers, Aqib Talibs, Demarcus Wares, etc. on this D. I'm fairly certain 11 vs. 11 every single Bronco starter on D is better then what we have, and in some areas significantly so. Maybe we rank 21st instead of 28th with Phillips as our DC, but I can't imagine squeezing any more production out of the likes of Compton, Blackmon, Dunbar etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I call bunk on our personnel lacking being our big issue. Even with a Von Miller, the Broncos brought 7 numerous times. Phillips is no fool - you have to pressure QBs. Just like we did in the 2nd half of RG3s magical year early in games to set the ton and force the issue. Suddenly, everyone on D looks better used to their strengths - aggressiveness. Yes, you can make the playoffs with Madieu as your free. I wonder if Barry noticed Phillips bringing the heat and how it won the game for them. I would think all DCs would watch that game and learn. I am not optimistic for it requires a lot of ego's to be set aside. I fear that if Barry had Von Miller, he would think he only had to bring 3. Maybe 4 occasionally. Barry being aggressive meant bringing 5. Memo to Barry, there are 5OL on every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Wade can bring 7 because he has a loaded secondary as well. Their 3rd CB starts for every other team in the league. Our secondary is bottom 3 with guys that noone would start save Breeland. Talent wins. Coaching can enhance talent but Wade wouldnt have made guys like Compton and Blackmon look any better then they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Wade can bring 7 because he has a loaded secondary as well. Their 3rd CB starts for every other team in the league. Our secondary is bottom 3 with guys that noone would start save Breeland. Talent wins. Coaching can enhance talent but Wade wouldnt have made guys like Compton and Blackmon look any better then they were. I think you're underselling Wade. He's been a very good coordinator wherever he's coached, esp. at the beginning. He would have done at least as well as Barry. The difference is, we don't know what Barry's ceiling is yet. He's still growing and learning to be the DC he can become. Phillips is a finished product. The Redskins would have been played better defense under Wade. They probably would have figured out the rush defense a lot quicker too. Still, Barry did a commendable job esp. on the teaching front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Wow. Redskin fans can't give it a rest with worry about "what ifs and former players." It's not like Wade was our defensive coordinator and we fired him. He was never on staff to begin with. Can we please worry about getting our own house in order and stop with worry about former players and coaches? Scot is on the cusp of building something good here. Let's worry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I call bunk on our personnel lacking being our big issue. Even with a Von Miller, the Broncos brought 7 numerous times. Phillips is no fool - you have to pressure QBs So you wanted Barry to rush 7 with the likes of: Everett / Dunbar / Hall at FS / Jarrett in your secondary? That's asking for a beating man. Teams that rush 7 successfully have a good secondary. Otherwise you're getting torched. You can only coach and call plays with what you have. If you're loaded on D, you can let them speaks for you, and bring on the heat every play. If you're not, you're here to keep your team in the game, and let the O work his magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.