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The Gun Control Debate Thread

Dont Taze Me Bro

By Dont Taze Me Bro
in The Tailgate

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

 

I'd love it if the media would keep attention on this, as it proceeds.  

 

I'd love to know what the eventual charges are (if any).  How long he actually spends without a gun.  How many people/organizations rush to defend his actions, or object to him being disarmed.  

 

I know it's too much to hope for.  The media dog pack will fixate on a different squirrel in the time it takes Trump to send a tweet.  

 

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Mrshadow008

Mrshadow008

Posted
Posted

Here’s the problem you’re gonna run into if you try to up the age to 21. An 18 year old can get drafted or sign up for the military where they will handle weapons much more volatile than an ar -15. At 18 years old you are also considered responsible enough to vote in this country but then wouldn’t be considered responsible enough to own a firearm? There are many that grow up around firearms and know how to responsibly use them well before the age of 18. I’m not sure what the solution is. Maybe if if between the ages of 18-21 you have to take a course before being able to purchase unless you are say military I’m not sure what the solution is but outright banning 18 year olds from being able to purchase firearms is kinda on the extreme end especially considering the things at the top of my post. 

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Cooked Crack

Cooked Crack

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Here’s the problem you’re gonna run into if you try to up the age to 21.

If anything we should eliminate the age limits. The Constitution doesn't say anything about age. Why are we denying rights to our kids? Age limits are bad. /s

 

Talking a course sounds like something you shouldn't only have to take if you're 18-21 though.

 

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Mrshadow008

Mrshadow008

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

If anything we should eliminate the age limits. The Constitution doesn't say anything about age. Why are we denying rights to our kids? Age limits are bad. /s

 

Talking a course sounds like something you shouldn't only have to take if you're 18-21 though.

 

So just curious and understand I’m not trying to be condescending. What do you propose as far as a course goes? Is it a one time deal like where atleast In the state of Virginia with a drivers license you only have to take the course and the test once unless you screw up and get points on your license. What about the people that already own firearms are you gonna require them to go take these courses or tests or are they grandfathered in? Or how about this before I let my concealed license expire I was DCJS certified to be a security officer with a 12 gauge shotgun and a 9 mm which were each different tests. And any separate caliber or if I wanted to be certified with a revolver required different tests which was basically a written test and whether or not I hit a target from certain distances at a range. Are you gonna require tests for every single caliber that someone wants to own? Basically what’s gonna happen here is you’re gonna restrict the people who do own responsibly and not the people who you truly want to stop.

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Cooked Crack

Cooked Crack

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

So just curious and understand I’m not trying to be condescending. What do you propose as far as a course goes? Is it a one time deal like where atleast In the state of Virginia with a drivers license you only have to take the course and the test once unless you screw up and get points on your license. What about the people that already own firearms are you gonna require them to go take these courses or tests or are they grandfathered in? Or how about this before I let my concealed license expire I was DCJS certified to be a security officer with a 12 gauge shotgun and a 9 mm which were each different tests. And any separate caliber or if I wanted to be certified with a revolver required different tests which was basically a written test and whether or not I hit a target from certain distances at a range. Are you gonna require tests for every single caliber that someone wants to own? Basically what’s gonna happen here is you’re gonna restrict the people who do own responsibly and not the people who you truly want to stop.

Looking over Maryland's requirement for a handgun licence. The course work required seems like a good starting point.

Quote

State Firearm Law.
Home Firearm Safety.
Handgun Mechanisms and Operation.
Operation and Handling Demonstration.

They grandfathered folks and have exemptions like you mentioned. Courses not going to stop mass shootings but might bring down accidental shootings.

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Zguy28

Zguy28

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm all for reasonable forms of limiting access to weapons that can be used to mass effect. However, its like treating the symptom instead of the disease. I still firmly believe that extreme overexposure to information (social media, screen time, etc.) is one contributing factor of many of these incidents with young people.Young people today are the most connected, yet disconnected, generation in history. Makes you do crazy and dissociative things. It also affects how you view authority. Its not limited to young people either.

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Bang

Bang

Posted
Posted

treating the disease is much much too complex. We don't have the patience for that.

We all want to find a Magic Solution that we can use to try to address the major mental health problem we have here.

Mental health is tricky, because what triggers it is different in every single person.

I've seen these new memes lately screaming that white privilege and entitlement is now the answer.. and in fact the meme going around says specifically that "bullying never caused anyone to kill" because if it did then you'd hear about Trans and other bullied kids shooting up a school.

I ****ing HATE it.. and anyone i see posting it instantly drops about 50 notches in my respect meter. 

The magic single reason for all of this is not THAT. it's THIS. 

It is incredibly lazy, and typical of our society, and is causation for the terminal gridlock affecting every little thing in this country. we want instant gratification, a fast answer to solve it all. The fact that is impossible seems only to serve to force people to look even harder for the magic single reason, and lack into the one they believe and shut down all input to the contrary.

The answer isn't THAT. It's THIS..

The answer is too big for that. The answer is probably never going to be found, because it is as impossible as monitoring every individual.

 

Every shooter has different motivations. Even if they may seems similar on their profile, the environments that made them into killers are as varied as the individuals themselves. The kid in St. Mary's County had completely different circumstances that motivated him to do what he did than the kid in Florida, than the kid at Sandy Hook, to the kids in Columbine.. 

So the causes of all of this are as wide as can be, and going beyond kids killing kids in school, the overall anger and propensity for explosion stems again from a variety of stimulation.

Things I hate:
Video games have nothing to do with the problem. I play them ,and i never wanted to kill anyone. 
OK, great.. so how is it you can say that is true for everyone? Not saying we should censor anything ,but blanket statements like this ignore potential causes for the sake of protecting an enjoyable pastime. (no different than the people who want to sport shoot with military type hardware. "It's fun, and i never shot anyone, and neither have any of my friends" It's pretty much a word for word defense, just subbing games for guns.)

 

Violent movies and a music industry that glorifies criminals and violence have nothing to do with why the gangster culture is a problem. I watch violent movies, and i never hurt anybody. I listen to gangsta rap and i never busted a cap in anybody. Great. Now explain how that covers everybody?

 

The news spews hatred and fear 24-7. Outright hate filled propaganda DESIGNED and EXECUTED with the sole purpose of sowing division, creating anger and hate, and separating us on as many conflict lines as possible. Black, White, Christian, Muslim, .. when it bludgeoning us with hate and fear, by gaslighting the public, by eliminating the words "truth" and "fact" from our vocabulary they create a world in which a kid sees nothing BUT conflict an anger.  Fox and the right wing propaganda make any of the others look like ****ing pikers. (Last night Lauran Ingraham spent time bashing David Hogg's grades and how he might not get into college.. as if it has anything at all to do with anything he is currently doing.  (Hey NRA ****s, is this how your church protects your rights? Really? You support that?)  Smearing a ****ing KID? Creating images of the girl ripping up the Constitution, all for the purpose of making us HATE her. A KID.

People everywhere HATE these kids because they are being told to.

Does anyone think that all those waves of hate don't have ripple effects?

 

Home life.. i hear it all the time,, 'kids have no respect".. oh yeah? tell me, Mr "in my day" how all of the hate propaganda you repeat helps any of them have any respect? Back to these protesting kids.. look at how they are being treated for doing what they think is right. "Back in my day" kids protested. Had one of the brainwashed tell me the other day that these kids aren't organized and will never get anything done, like his generation did with the Vietnam war, followed by a picture of a huge protest in DC in 1968. I damn near choked as i reminded him that we didn't end the war until 8 years later in 1975, and the protests accomplished exactly NOTHING. (I mean, unless you think waiting 8 years for a demand to be met is getting anywhere)

 

Parents need to be more involved!
Super,, so when? I have a lot of friends, and exactly 3 of them have homes in which one parent covers all of the living expenses, and the other stays home with the kids. I would bet a buck if all of you thought to all of your friends and acquaintances, the number of households with two full time working parents far outnumbers those with a stay-at-home parent. And this assumes that it's a 2 parent household, which as we all know is not far too often. So how does a single parent manage to work a job and still be there so much as the Magic Answer folks seem to think is required?

Sure, parents should be able to be a parent more than they can. But often it's simply not possible.

Show of hands, who was / is a single parent? I was. I was raising my son on my own for more than a few years from when he was a toddler.

for one, the circumstance in which i became a single dad took me by surprise, which it often will, and the resulting divorce ate much of my money. Obviously, i have to work, and unfortunately for me, there was  a shortage of Easy To Obtain High Paying Jobs Wiithin a Few Miles of Home. Just my luck, i guess. Like most people, i had to commute, and that commute eats time out of the day that I am not working. Literally by the time i got home, got dinner on and done, i was utterly exhausted. Being a fully attentive parent is hard to do in today's world, and today's world has pressed so many people away from family and into the battle for a sliver of that remaining tiny percentage of national wealth we must all share.

Some parents are ****. No doubt,, but looking at many of these kids who kill, it's not always the cliché parents story.

As to those who think kids are less respectful now than they were then? :ols::ols: Must have been nice to grow up in such a place. I went to Suitland high 30 years ago. The things i have seen out of 'kids'..  i laugh like hell when people tell me today's kids are all that much different. The one thing i do see different is so many outside influences, primarily entertainment, reinforcing violence as the answer to problems, and the path to respect.

But I look at these videos of brawls in schools iwth the usual "kids these days!" screeching, and it's nothing i've never seen before, or been in. Same for most of us. Granted, the school i went to was not one of the nicest schools and never has been.. so i may have seen more than some.. but again, it existed, and it existed clearly. (In fact we had a shooting in school the year before i got there.. 1978, kid killed another one at Suitland. Guns of the type that are available now weren't as readily available then, and I would bank that helped make sure we didn't have the problems we have today.. because the attitudes and behaviors ad propensity for violence were NO DIFFERENT. Only the weapons. In my 3 years at Suitland - 5 stabbings. You can extrapolate that out to now and the availability of guns and likely conclude that shootings probably would have been just as common. But hey.. one thing was a fact.. NOT having guns did not prevent them from trying. Personally, i think if guns had been as easily obtained then, we'd have had plenty of shootings. (Oh, and we had an armed cop in the school, too. 1980.)

 

So much i see these days .. i can only describe it as we hate our own kids. Almost everything they do, we hate. Take phones for example.. seriously.. they are no different than your dad back in 1971 reading the paper at the table. We complain they don'tv communicate, they're glued to these phones...  uh,, communicating with each other. I don't know about you, but i have written more in each of the last 20 or so years than i did in my previous 30 or so combined.  I communicate with more people, learn more.

But we see kids using this technology, and we hate it.. or we resent it. (Nevermind we invented it so their lives could be better. now that it is, we don't like it for a million reasons that make no sense.) Millennials are spoiled, millenials are dumb, are naive, etc. etc. etc. 

 

As usual, i am all over the road.

I could fill up my entire day writing out things that are ****ed up that are causes of all of our collective national stress, that feed into this big gigantic amorphous "mental health" problem..and each one of you can add on to it to the end of the week and we STILL won't get to the end of it. (thanks for the springboard up to my soapbox here, Zguy :) )

 

If we seriously want to tackle these problems, we have to be open to just how much feeds into this problem, and realize that while we may want to do something about it, there is no guarantee anything we do will help, because of the impossible number of variables from case to case. The answer is not easy, won't be painless, and may in fact be impossible.

 

~Bang

 

 

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visionary

visionary

Posted
Posted (edited)

From the article:

Quote

A 59-year-old Army veteran arrested in a Massachusetts hotel with dozens of weapons claims that he assembled his arsenal as part of a “classified” mission for an unnamed government agency, according to law enforcement. 


Texas native Francho Bradley and partner Adrianne Jennings were arrested at the Marriott Residence Inn in Tewksbury, Mass., on March 24th with a massive assortment of firearms and military-style equipment. Bradley claimed he had transported the stockpile to Massachusetts from Texas “because he needed them with him for his mission,” according to a police report obtained by The Lowell Sun.

 

The cache recovered by local law enforcement included several semi-automatic rifles outfitted with suppressors and bump stocks; an AR-15 variant “with a grenade launcher affixed to the bottom”; tactical vests that appeared outfitted with military-style smoke and “flash bang” grenades; and high-capacity magazines, including several “affixed to each other by a homemade case … [that] allows an individual to shoot off all five magazines in a short amount of time.”

 

Edited by visionary
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Bang

Bang

Posted
Posted

Oh come on, he was probably just heading up there for spring grouse season.

Tell you what,, nothing tastes better than barbecued grouse that has been pureed by an AR-15. Hit that sucker with the jury-rigged grenade launcher just right, you don't even need to cook it. it just falls off the bone.. .. well,   what might have been bone.

 

~Bang BANGBANGBANGBANGBANGBANGspurt!

 

ahhh..

 

 

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LD0506

LD0506

Posted
Posted

Credit to local law enforcement for intervening, that's some scary **** right there. TBH I have personally seen far bigger arsenals but the thing that kinda strikes me is that they were a couple, any single shooter can do X amount of damage, two is X ² , point source vs overlapping fire/ambush, etc.

 

I am just surprised that we haven't seen any of the gunnutties attack a rally yet, I've been kinda waiting for that shoe to drop.

 

 

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