Rooting Against the Redskins How Dare you?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Agreed. The Knighton, Gallette, Goldson additions among others don't fit any type of rebuild. I think they were all great value, so there's no gripe there. But they aren't rebuilding moves, where you're doing everything you can to accrue young talent while not, *ahem*, hindering your shot at a top draft pick for a couple years. Not tanking, but not making temporary moves that serve no long-term purpose.

 

A true rebuild like that takes the kind of job security and organizational stability and confidence in an overall plan that we've never had in recent history. And Scot isn't changing that now, he's more retooling while trying to strengthen the foundation more slowly in the background.

 

That approach can work, and is probably more realistic. I'm just sick of reading people say that we're finally rebuilding. We're not. We might have gotten a master architect in Scot, and he's got a plan. But he's once again renovating, while maybe putting on an addition. He's not knocking it down and rebuilding it.

Agree with all that, except I don't even like Goldson, at 4 mil and even a tiny draft pick price, as any kind of value, personally.

[TheATrain]

I'm a lot less invested in the outcome of football games now than I used to be.  I'm busier now and have more serious worries/responsibilities.  And I watch a greater variety of sports than I used to.  Truth be told, the Redskins failure to develop RGIII was also a turning point for me.  It proved definitively that you can't help some organizations.  We squandered the most talented QB prospect I've ever seen.  Not only that, he came in and delivered the greatest rookie season a QB has ever had.  When I've watched the QB prospects since 2012, it's been such a downer seeing none of them really even come that close to RGIII's level.  All we had to do was get out of our own way and the kid was eventually going to be the best player in the NFL.  But alas, bad franchises don't get franchise QBs.  And it will probably be decades before we get another prospect as talented as him.  So I've been in the realm of massively diminished expectations the past two years.

 

I too love watching games with people.  I like talking about the sport.  And I'll often root for the teams of the people I'm watching games with too.  Kind of as a fan tourist.

 

Though it's different with the Wizards.  I am 100% invested in them.  That team has become shockingly good to its fans the last two seasons, and amazing though it may sound, I don't root scared with them any more.

 

Funny thing about the Wizards is that despite their recent success, there's a much higher turnout for the crappy skins games than theirs. I saw plenty of empty seats during the wizards playoff games for crying out loud. Their dark years will take a while to get over and get more people interested. Caps never have a problem because of Ovechkin, and they're looking really solid right now anyway

 

This city will always be first and foremost a football city, no matter how bad they suck

[Conn]

I'm a lot less invested in the outcome of football games now than I used to be.  I'm busier now and have more serious worries/responsibilities.  And I watch a greater variety of sports than I used to.  Truth be told, the Redskins failure to develop RGIII was also a turning point for me.  It proved definitively that you can't help some organizations.  We squandered the most talented QB prospect I've ever seen.  Not only that, he came in and delivered the greatest rookie season a QB has ever had.  When I've watched the QB prospects since 2012, it's been such a downer seeing none of them really even come that close to RGIII's level.  All we had to do was get out of our own way and the kid was eventually going to be the best player in the NFL.  But alas, bad franchises don't get franchise QBs.  And it will probably be decades before we get another prospect as talented as him.  So I've been in the realm of massively diminished expectations the past two years.

 

I too love watching games with people.  I like talking about the sport.  And I'll often root for the teams of the people I'm watching games with too.  Kind of as a fan tourist.

 

Though it's different with the Wizards.  I am 100% invested in them.  That team has become shockingly good to its fans the last two seasons, and amazing though it may sound, I don't root scared with them any more.

 

No doubt the team screwed up a lot of things with Griffin. No question. But even seeing everything we've seen in the last few years, you still believe that Griffin had it in him to develop into a truly great QB? He was a great prospect at the time, but him turning into a truly dangerous passer, who could run or not, seems less likely now than it did then. Part of it is what he went through here, but part of it also seems like it might be because he never had it in him to begin with. Not all great prospects pan out, and not all of them fail because of bad organizations. Sometimes great prospects just aren't as special as they seemed at the time.

[illone]

At the end of the day its just a game and has no effect on who i am as a person.

 

i want the team to do well, but I don't lose sleep over it like I used to.  I have kids, family, career, many other priorities that are far more important than a bunch of guys running around the football field that don't even know I exist.

 

Some of you guys sound like the team stole your girlfriend or something.  This thing has nothing to do with you.

 

I am all for tanking a year if there is some prize at the end, but as others have mentioned there is no Luck in this upcoming draft.

 

Just relax and enjoy the game.  If it's not fun anymore, then why participate?

[l7986]

That article made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. And honestly I want the Redskins to do as well as possible because they've been striking out at the top of the first round for a while. It can't hurt to draft some guys that fall to the lower end of the first round and play with a chip of their shoulder instead of expecting everything to be handed to them.

[FrFan]

Sometimes it's wise to take a step backwards in order to jump forward, the Colts did it. The difference with us is that we're toxic with Snyder at the helm, so there is no point rooting against the team or tanking. I wish Snyder will sell the team or pull a Don Sterling.

 

At the end of the day its just a game and has no effect on who i am as a person.

 

i want the team to do well, but I don't lose sleep over it like I used to.  I have kids, family, career, many other priorities that are far more important than a bunch of guys running around the football field that don't even know I exist.

 

Some of you guys sound like the team stole your girlfriend or something.  This thing has nothing to do with you.

 

I am all for tanking a year if there is some prize at the end, but as others have mentioned there is no Luck in this upcoming draft.

 

Just relax and enjoy the game.  If it's not fun anymore, then why participate?

I do agree with you on the first part, nevertheless, logic and facts are telling me that Snyder has the power to derail any Luck.

[SkinsGuy]

That's on Snyder. I've said it before and I'll say it again; he is what's wrong with this team. It all starts at the top. It's not that the fans aren't patient enough for a rebuild, they are and would easily stick around through more dark years for the possibility of having a competitive team again, no matter how long it took. But little danny snyder won't stand for it, for whatever blind, made up fairytale reasoning he has

 

Ah, baloney.

 

There are fans on this board who want Gruden gone NOW, and he has had only one season.

 

And they aren't a small minority, either.

 

They want him gone at the end of this season (just two seasons) if everything isn't exactly perfect for them.

 

When it comes to patience, Redskin fans are the biggest hypocrites there are. Ready to rush players and coaches out of town if they aren't 4-0 at the start of their first season, and the project their impatience onto the front office, and then complain about it.

 

They make Snyder look like the definition of patience in comparison.

[Skinsfan1311]

Ah, baloney.

 

There are fans on this board who want Gruden gone NOW, and he has had only one season.

 

And they aren't a small minority, either.

 

They want him gone at the end of this season (just two seasons) if everything isn't exactly perfect for them.

 

When it comes to patience, Redskin fans are the biggest hypocrites there are. Ready to rush players and coaches out of town if they aren't 4-0 at the start of their first season, and the project their impatience onto the front office, and then complain about it.

 

They make Snyder look like the definition of patience in comparison.

 

Amen.

 

Thank God there was no social media, internet, etc., when Gibbs was first hired.  

[bowhunter]

 

Just relax and enjoy the game.  If it's not fun anymore, then why participate?

Because I'm an addict. I know this Redskins drug is bad for me, but the rare brief high makes me forget the predictable and steady lows. For 3 hours per fall weekend, I'm allowed to obsess and indulge. During the rest of the week I enjoy reading the news and comments of like minded sufferers. Most of us here would meet the admission requirements for some sort of seven step program. My father suffers from the same disease, must be genetic. I'm afraid that I've also passed it on to my children.

[skinsforlife101]

Wrong thread

[SWFLSkins]

Wrong thread

[pray4surf]

Right now I'm "all in" for the Redskins.  Not KC, RG3 or any other specific player but the Washington effing Redskins.  

 

I will reserve judgement for at least the first 4 games before I decide how I feel about THIS team regardless of what I saw last year or the year before.  

This team, this year, with the additions and subtractions made by management and coaching has my full support.  I won't even dream of losing out until I see a few games to determine if Gruden, his staff and the players have any chance of being competitive and building for the future.  

Every year teams come out of nowhere to the surprise of all the pendants and conversely others with high expectations fall flat.  

 

New year, new season, a lot can happen. 

 

HTTR

[skinfan2k]

One thing remains constant.  Dan Snyder's adamant involvement in football decisions and player mingling. 

[RedskinWill]

Because I'm an addict. I know this Redskins drug is bad for me, but the rare brief high makes me forget the predictable and steady lows. For 3 hours per fall weekend, I'm allowed to obsess and indulge. During the rest of the week I enjoy reading the news and comments of like minded sufferers. Most of us here would meet the admission requirements for some sort of seven step program. My father suffers from the same disease, must be genetic. I'm afraid that I've also passed it on to my children.

I've got it down to 30 minutes with gamepass condensed games lol. The suffering is not as long.

[Peregrine]

I think its foolish to be upset if someone succeeds like Cousins because they dont have "it", because if they succeed they clear have "it".

[pray4surf]

Idiot in the article asking to borrow a friends Dolphins jersey to wear. Seriously?  GTFOH Fake ass "fan". 

[roanoker]

Imo, "The future is now" philosophy has not worked for this team for many years nor has "We have a shiny new toy." This team needs to build a solid foundation adding solid pieces each year. Hopefully, SM is the architect that will make it happen. As far as the pursuit of  "winning for losing," (draft) we've even lost at that in the past. My expectation for this year is to see improvement on the OL, secondary or ST. I have been and am a Redskins fan - this insidious disease is called Extremeskins

[SkinsHokieFan]

The problem with our franchise is NOT that we didn't get a talented enough QB in the 2012 draft class.

Franchise QBs are made, not found. And bad franchises don't make franchise QBs.

I think it's unrealistically optimistic to think we can solve our fundamental issues as a franchise by bottoming out and getting a high draft pick and spending it on the QB prospect du jour. I think all that actually ensures is we'll have **** records and ruin a new QB prospect and further marginalize the franchise.

No draft pick can save us. There is no way out. Not until this organization finds the right leadership and establishes the right culture.

 

 

I agree with all of this.

 

I think the question I have looking back to 2012 is this

 

Would Mike Shanahan have been able to find more success and stability as an org with Andrew Luck+all the picks saved in having to trade up, as opposed to Griffin and losing the picks?

 

My hypothesis is that Luck is a remarkably ego-less athlete (by outside appearances) whose football skills also translated incredibly well to a Mike Shanahan ZBS/bootleg offense.

 

Having the pedigree of a dad who played in the NFL, he may again (by all outside appearances) is one of the most "coachable" top picks we have seen.

 

I agree with you and the state of the org today in terms of QB development. I still do believe GMSM needs another top 3 pick to really start accumulating talent this team needs if there is any hope of competing in 2017 or 2018

[Darrell Green Fan]

 1 win in 2011 cost us Andrew Luck.  

You may want to check your work here.

Thanks

[pray4surf]

The Colts were all in in the Suck for Luck campaign.  They would have lost as many as needed to get him.  And of course we aren't th Colts so who knows what Luck would be doing

Exactly!  Look at the 2011 Colts team on paper.  Not world beaters but not a 2-14 team either.  They started the year 0-13.  That's not easy to do.  

 

The following year they went 11-5 with pretty much the same group and the addition of TY.  They were +7 ppg better in 2012 than 2011.  I think it fairly obvious that Luck has "it".  He makes any team an instant contender.   

[SkinsGuy]

Imo, "The future is now" philosophy has not worked for this team for many years nor has "We have a shiny new toy."

 

 

The funny thing is, there are many fans on this board that have that philosophy, and don't even realize it. LOL

 

They want a new QB in the draft, but they don't realize that losing almost all our games this season so that we can get that "shiny new toy" (i.e., the first pick in the draft) is exactly that philosophy.

 

They call it "building through the draft". No, it is mortgaging what you have for what you hope will work out in the future.

 

This is what Snyder is accused of doing. Yet many here hold that same belief and chastise Snyder for it.

 

Like I said, hypocrites.

[Renegade7]

Honestly,  feel that says more how terribly built that team was around Peyton that all it needed was for the QB to go down and they only won 2 games.  In my mind that's why they fired the coach and the GM and eventually got rid of Peyton as well because they knew they had to start over from scratch. Also another reason Peyton only has one ring.

 

You need a QB to win games, you need a well built team to win a championship.

[The Consigliere]

I think there's a better chance of Kirk Cousins cutting down on picks and turning into a legit NFL starting QB than there is of the Redskins hitting on one in the draft, no matter who the coach is.

 

I think there's virtually no chance of that. Kirk is what he is, he's been the same QB since he was first starting at Michigan State, nothing has ever dramatically changed one way or the other in his game. He's by nature, an inconsistent, impulsive decision maker at the position, who trusts his arm talent more than he should, and isn't enough of a thinker at the position. He's a dangerous QB to have because he's fully capable of playing outstanding games at QB, even stringing together a few outstanding games, but eventually he'll fall back into what he is, and look god awful repeatedly. He's not a franchise QB, nor a league average one.

 

Now you could say if he fixes his turnover rate and simply becomes league average in that one area, he'd be outstanding, and that's true, metrics wise, he is above average or better in every category save turnover rate which is bottom of the league bad, indeed so bad, the rate is even worse than Ryan Leaf's, but that's also like saying, If Michael Westbunk loved football he would have been great, or if Brandon Scherrf had the technical ability of John Hannah or Anthony Munoz he'd be a Hall of Famer. So what, they don't, and they won't. If Cousins has done this for the past decade, and he has, there's no evidence to suggest anything's going to change. If it does, awesome, but it's about a 95-5 likelihood that our next legit shot at a Franchise QB is either through drafting one next spring, or being smart and trading for Mettenberger as  I suggest at CPND five months ago (he was a projected first rounder in the summer and fall of 2013 who fell dramatically with a bad last year, and poor interviews and mental makeup grades, but has looked damned good with a god awful line and supporting cast in Tennessee, honestly Tennessee never should have drafted Mariota, they should have taken the Philly deal and run).

 

Anyway, w/regards to rooting interest, I'm a lifelong redskins fan, my brother got to me after the family moved back to the bay when I was 4 years old back in the late seventies, spoiled rotten by the success of the eighties and early nineties which paralleled my elementary and secondary school years (Super Bowl XVII and XVIII for me occurred when I was a 2nd and 3rd grader, remembered vividly, Super Bowl XXII was in 7th grade, and XXVI was in 11th grade, the end of the Gibbs era mirrored my graduation year from High School, so basically year 0 of the decline was my freshman year in college), as a result, my interest is in the long term success of the team. Snyder probably won't die until I'm in my 70's probably, so I'm screwed, he's too young unfortunately, so my interest is in Scott being successful to encourage Snyder to stay out of the business of day to day operations beyond signing checks, however, the team needs to implode for Scott to have full control and to get rid of the dead wood on the roster, in the F.O. and in the coaching staff (which is everyone). So I'm absolutely rooting for 0-16 just as I supported a Suck for Luck, start the kiddos 2011 to ensure we'd land our franchise QB, instead we won a couple of meaningless games and set the franchise back half a decade at least, with those two wins against the Super Bowl victor Giants. I'll be supporting losses, but not injuries, in the hopes of development for the kids, and a chance to get some real cream for the franchise next spring since we didn't get any this past spring, if things turn right, we can build a legit long term contender by 2018 if we're lucky, instead of this 1 off bait and switch garbage we've had in '99, '05, '07 and '12, 3 out of four of those being blatantly obvious short cuts doomed not to last.

[The Consigliere]

Griffin was drafted #2 overall. Rodgers was drafted #24. I cannot stand this argument on so many levels for so many reasons, and this is just one of them.

 

Rodgers was rated #1, and #1A going into that draft up until the last moment the Niners went back and forth on it, finally settling on Smith in part because they liked his humility and were bothered by Rodgers ****iness in interviews. The argument that you can get a franchise QB at 24 because the Packers did is a fallacious one, Rodgers fell because SF and Miami, the only two teams apparently considering QB's in that '05 draft wanted the same guy. Once Rodgers fell past them, nobody considered them. Even the Packers were going to pass and it took ownership support and fierce determination by the GM and his scouts to push aside counterarguments from that dolt Mike Sherman. It was a close call because Sherman wanted immediate help and felt Rodgers was a luxury they couldn't afford. Luckily for the Packers, Thomas had enough juice that he was able to push aside his coaches desires and act in the long term interests of the club, which is a GM's job.

 

Rodgers was ranked #1 or #2 from everybody that entire winter and spring, not #24, it was a weird fluke that he fell that far, I argued at the time that the redskins should take him, but gave up once it was obvious we were dead set on idiotically taking Campbell, I also suggested the crazy idea that if the Niners loved him so much, when he fell that far, they should simply trade up from their pick near the top of round 2, and get him to ensure a better chance of landing their franchise guy. Instead they went with David Bass instead. Alas, the Niners are still looking for their franchise QB.

 

Best chance at a franchise QB is at the top of the draft, and sometimes a bit further down, look around the league and there's an exception that pops up about every 8 years or so, and a clump in 2000 ('00-Brady and Romo, '01 Brees at end of round 1, '12 Wilson in round 3, considered a reach by many at the time), but the franchise QB's of the past fifteen years other than them have been McNabb top of '99, Eli top of '04, Rodgers rated #1 in '05 slipped to bottom of round 1, Cutler whose become a joke but was considered one for about five years, mid-1st in '07, Bridgewater was ranked #1 in fall of '13, Stafford top of the '08 draft, Ryan, top of the '07 draft, Winston top of the '15 draft, Newton top of the '11 draft, Palmer top of the '03 draft, Tannehill top of the '12 draft, Ben Roth, near top of '04, Flacco mid-1st in '08, Luck, top of '12, Mariota top of '15, Bortles top of '14, Manning top of '98, Smith (laughing heartily) top of '05, and Rivers top of '04. Some of these guys obviously aren't some straddle franchise QB and basically league average, and some are unproven and still young but you can see that for the 3 guys we have that slipped through the cracks, we have 19 who were either drafted as a franchise guy high in round 1, or were rated that high at some point in their draft year and slipped a bit (Bridgewater, Rodgers). You can try and hope you get one of the 2% chance guys that are discovered after the first 75-100 picks, or you can take a swing with a 35-65 to 50/50 shot of landing that guy in round 1. I prefer the latter approach, eventually we'll hit, hell we might have in 2012 if the F.O. hadn't allowed Shanny to ruin RG3 by playing him when he had no business doing so late in '12 and in the second quarter and after of that playoff game. I like the potential of Hackenberg, Cook, Jones, and Goff, and am interested in some of the other guys, I have little doubt we'll take a swing next spring unless Cousins miraculously does what he has never done, and puts together a largely consistent, excellent season w/an turnover per play ratio that is league average or better (something he's nowhere remotely close too right now in his career, or in his time at Michigan State).

[The Consigliere]

I said it then, I'll say it now - this philosophy is dumb because it's not realistic because no team would ever do it. Cite all the teams that "tanked" all you want, no team has ever TRIED to lose a football game. It's fan created nonsense.

If you want to take the passion out for a whole season go ahead. Root for our division opponents when they play us.

BY THE WAY, let's not gloss over the fact that people wanted to lose in 2011 for luck OR rg3. So you werent as right as you think folks.

Oh, and I used to say: go ahead and tell the players this to their face if you meet them. See how that makes you feel. What a crummy, desperate, pathetic line of thinking.

You don't think the Colts tanked their season for Luck? Look at the QB's they rostered knowing Manning was likely done career wise. They made no attempt to land even a half competent QB for their team after having been to the playoffs just about every season for 12 straight years. They made no effort whatsoever to get their QB.

 

I don't believe coaches deliberately try to suck, nor players, but GM's? GM's control access to players, and if a coach doesn't have the players, there's little he can do. The Colts F.O. made little effort to fix a diabolically bad QB situation despite knowing how dire Peyton's health was that entire spring and summer. They absolutely did tank '11, deliberately, and I have zero problem with it. It was the right move and they managed to pull a Walsh-Seifert/Niners move and basically bridge dynasty level QB's, back to back, which almost never happens (see post-Kelly Bills still looking for a QB 18 years later), but did happen for the Packers with Rodgers, and the Cowboys (almost) with Romo. It was huge, and a genius move, you look at the Niners after Young, the Broncos after Elway, the Bills after Kelly, the Giants after Simms, the Bears after McMahon etc, all went into the toilet. But when you do get that QB, sometimes you only even suffer one down year.

Scot has only begun to rebuild the Lines, the foundation is the starting point for any rebuild. Just like remodeling, you can slap lipstick on a pig but if you don't start with the foundation you can't build much from there. 

 

If you land a franchise QB, you can short cut anything. The Colts still have weak personnel everywhere save WR, and it doesn't matter because of Luck.