Shooting At A Charleston SC Church (and now the Confederate Flag Tangent--MET)

[@DCGoldPants]

Sucks that an image from US history was hijacked like that. We've seen if before. Images that mean one thing, used by a cause/army/nation.... and now is ruined. Sad.

[thebluefood]

Sucks that an image from US history was hijacked like that. We've seen if before. Images that mean one thing, used by a cause/army/nation.... and now is ruined. Sad.

My sentiments exactly.

[tshile]

VA issues license plates with it

That'll be fun watching them argue over that

[TheGreatBuzz]

Well, I will confess that based on my personal opinion, based on the people I've seen displaying it in various places?

I'd say it sure looks like there's a linkage.

Interesting since a version of it is flown on Navy vessels and worn on uniforms.

[Major Harris]

Well, I will confess that based on my personal opinion, based on the people I've seen displaying it in various places?

I'd say it sure looks like there's a linkage.

Are these assumptions?

[Larry]

Are these assumptions?

The post of mine that you quoted didn't contain enough disclaimers to make that clear, to you?

[Major Harris]

The post of mine that you quoted didn't contain enough disclaimers to make that clear, to you?

I didn't want to assume.

[Going Commando]

Apparently the Gadsden Flag is now considered racist:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/wearing-dont-tread-on-me-insignia-could-be-punishable-racial-harassment/

The complainant sounds like a whiny asshole.

I can't see some big movement to brand the Gadsden flag as racist catching on though.

BTW I can't believe people get paid to investigate whether a symbol is racist based on its appearance in "racially tinged situations" simply because some ****head wanted to screw over his coworker.

What a wonderful use of government time and resources.

[Forehead]

I can certainly see where the association comes from, as I've seen the Gadsden flag paired far more often with Confederate flags than with markers from other groups.  That being said, I've generally associated it far more closely with 2nd amendment rights than I have with racists.

[Predicto]

 

I associate it with the sovereign citizen groups.   I once had to make sense of a pile of "legal briefing" by a sov citizen, and it included several photos of the Gadsden flag.   

 

It also had confederate flags, and (strangely) a bunch of variations on the Grateful Dead skull, the one with the lightning bolt in it.   But in place of the lightning bolt were out of context quotations from the Uniform Commercial Code.  

[PCS]

Needless to say,(ex military guy here),I associate with just that. Known and know military members with that patch or a shirt with the flag on it. 

[Destino]

from the article:

 

After a thorough review of the record, it is clear that the Gadsden Flag originated in the Revolutionary War in a non-racial context. Moreover, it is clear that the flag and its slogan have been used to express various non-racial sentiments, such as when it is used in the modern Tea Party political movement, guns rights activism, patriotic displays, and by the military.
 

However, whatever the historic origins and meaning of the symbol, it also has since been sometimes interpreted to convey racially-tinged messages in some contexts. For example, in June 2014, assailants with connections to white supremacist groups draped the bodies of two murdered police officers with the Gadsden flag during their Las Vegas, Nevada shooting spree. [Footnote: Shooters in Metro ambush that left five dead spoke of white supremacy and a desire to kill police, Las Vegas Review-Journal, June 8, 2014, available online at: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/shooters-metro-ambush-left-five-dead-spoke-white-supremacy-and-desire-kill-police.]Additionally, in 2014, African-American New Haven firefighters complained about the presence of the Gadsden flag in the workplace on the basis that the symbol was racially insensitive. [Paul Bass, Flag Sparks Fire Department Complaint, New Haven Independent, Feb. 25, 2014, available online at:http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/tea_party_fire_department/.] Certainly, Complainant ascribes racial connotations to the symbol based on observations that it is sometimes displayed in racially-tinged situations.

 

It's historical context and current common use, are somehow offset by a complaint in New Haven and the murder of two white cops by people that also had some links to racist groups?  This seems like an absurdly low standard for accepting something can reasonably be considered a racist symbol.

 

Didn't Nike use the snake and "don't tread on me" to promote US soccer not too long ago?   

[Forehead]

 

I associate it with the sovereign citizen groups.   I once had to make sense of a pile of "legal briefing" by a sov citizen, and it included several photos of the Gadsden flag.   

 

It also had confederate flags, and (strangely) a bunch of variations on the Grateful Dead skull, the one with the lightning bolt in it.   But in place of the lightning bolt were out of context quotations from the Uniform Commercial Code.  

 

 

I'm not a lawyer, or as in the weeds as you are, but we get requests sent to my office from radical groups as well, usually accusing us of all manner of rights violations, demanding we turn over offices full of documents, and always throwing case law citations and legalese at us, most often misused.  My favorite is when they use phrases like "any reasonable person would conclude that...." with conclusions that are entirely unreasonable, borderline insane, and usually based off of whatever godawful nonsense they spent the last few pages expounding upon, which I'm forced to read.

 

I wish it was legal to share this stuff.

[KingGibbs]

We can only hope that this POS get's the Jeffrey Dahmer treatment in jail. Only I hope they do it slowly and methodically.

[visionary]

 

[twa]

so will he sit in prison for 20+?

[SemperFi Skins]

12 hours ago, twa said:

so will he sit in prison for 20+?

 

He will probably have 40 appeals on the taxpayer dollar, when in reality it should be a firing squad in the back of the courthouse.

 

Just like this Ft Lauderdale airport guy. He complained he had no money so now us taxpayers are paying for his public defender when there is video proof he did it... so why not just put a bullet in his head from day one? Don't really care why he did it after the fact, just end his ass.

[Kilmer17]

Why let him off that easy?  Let him rot in jail.

[twa]

13 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Why let him off that easy?  Let him rot in jail.

 

We let them rot?

With the feds trying to block even lethal injection I doubt it.

[LadySkinsFan]

56 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

He will probably have 40 appeals on the taxpayer dollar, when in reality it should be a firing squad in the back of the courthouse.

 

Just like this Ft Lauderdale airport guy. He complained he had no money so now us taxpayers are paying for his public defender when there is video proof he did it... so why not just put a bullet in his head from day one? Don't really care why he did it after the fact, just end his ass.

 

Um, because it's not the American Way?  

 

According to you, it's perfectly acceptable to just make Fascism really official, before it becomes official under the Trump administration.

[SemperFi Skins]

12 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Why let him off that easy?  Let him rot in jail.

 

The fact that he's still breathing is a problem.

Just now, LadySkinsFan said:

 

Um, because it's not the American Way?  

 

According to you, it's perfectly acceptable to just make Fascism really official, before it becomes official under the Trump administration.

 

spare me... you'd probably give him a second chance at life, because well, he's a changed man and everyone deserves second chances, right?

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

The fact that he's still breathing is a problem.

 

spare me... you'd probably give him a second chance at life, because well, he's a changed man and everyone deserves second chances, right?

Well, no not in this case.  He deserves to die in prison.  It will cost us more to execute him than it will to let him live in hell for the rest of his life.  But in others, yes.  We do a pisspoor job of rehabilitating our prisoners.  If we did that better, prison could be a net benefit to society rather than a money sucking hole of revenge.

[SemperFi Skins]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

Well, no not in this case.  He deserves to die in prison.  It will cost us more to execute him than it will to let him live in hell for the rest of his life.  But in others, yes.  We do a pisspoor job of rehabilitating our prisoners.  If we did that better, prison could be a net benefit to society rather than a money sucking hole of revenge.

 

Just googled it, It's crazy that it costs more for death penalty but you're right. Although, a bullet only costs about a dollar lol

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

Just googled it, It's crazy that it costs more for death penalty but you're right. Although, a bullet only costs about a dollar lol

True, but that's not America.  I embrace the fact that total scum like this guy get TOTAL benefit of the doubt, over and over.  Until proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty.  My dad was a defense attourney, and I asked him once how he could defend guys he knew were guilty.  His response was that his JOB wasnt to get them off.  His job was to protect the Constitution and the rights provided everyone.  And if he did his job correctly, and the client was found guilty, there would be no lingering doubt that it was the correct ruling.

 

Added- The death penalty doesnt work as prevention.  It's just state sponsored revenge.

[LadySkinsFan]

19 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

The fact that he's still breathing is a problem.

 

spare me... you'd probably give him a second chance at life, because well, he's a changed man and everyone deserves second chances, right?

 

Wrong, let him rot in jail. 

 

For the record, I think that lifers shouldn't have any privilege like they do now. Twenty-three hours of solitary, no TV, maybe radio, magazines and books and that's it.  Only medical care that's absolutely necessary to treat medical emergencies. Visitors only once a month.

 

Kilmer, I agree with you. And your dad is correct.