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Shooting At A Charleston SC Church (and now the Confederate Flag Tangent--MET)

samy316

By samy316
in The Tailgate

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SemperFi Skins

SemperFi Skins

Posted
Posted
Just now, Kilmer17 said:

True, but that's not America.  I embrace the fact that total scum like this guy get TOTAL benefit of the doubt, over and over.  Until proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty.  My dad was a defense attourney, and I asked him once how he could defend guys he knew were guilty.  His response was that his JOB wasnt to get them off.  His job was to protect the Constitution and the rights provided everyone.  And if he did his job correctly, and the client was found guilty, there would be no lingering doubt that it was the correct ruling.

 

Added- The death penalty doesnt work as prevention.  It's just state sponsored revenge.

 

Truth... Your pops has some cojones!

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

 

Added- The death penalty doesnt work as prevention.  It's just state sponsored revenge.

 

I can understand that reasoning. But to me, I think there are some crimes, for which death is justice. It just feels right, to me. 

 

And no, I'm not sure I can specify a difference between "justice" and "revenge". 

 

 

 

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted

It does cost more because of barriers that exist that should not in cases guilt is certain.

 

kinda like your electric bill or taxes...the more complex you make things the higher the cost.

 

but we gotta subsidize them lawyers :kickcan:

 

 

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Gamebreaker

Gamebreaker

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

Wrong, let him rot in jail. 

 

For the record, I think that lifers shouldn't have any privilege like they do now. Twenty-three hours of solitary, no TV, maybe radio, magazines and books and that's it.  Only medical care that's absolutely necessary to treat medical emergencies. Visitors only once a month.

 

Kilmer, I agree with you. And your dad is correct.

 

I believe that is the exact conditions, minus the visitors, for a federal supermax prison in Colorado for the very worst criminals our society has produced. Many of them actually go insane with the solitude and lack of human communication. Some even go as far as brutalizing themselves in ways I didn't think a human being would resort to. 

 

I think Mr. Roof will be just fine there. 

 

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grego

grego

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

Well, no not in this case.  He deserves to die in prison.  It will cost us more to execute him than it will to let him live in hell for the rest of his life.  But in others, yes.  We do a pisspoor job of rehabilitating our prisoners.  If we did that better, prison could be a net benefit to society rather than a money sucking hole of revenge.

 

I don't know what it's like now, but 20 or so years ago, there was a program for prisoners at the Baltimore City Correctional Center. Inmates could sign up for about 7 different vocations ranging from basic computer operation and typing to auto mechanics to carpentry. They also had classes in how to apply for jobs after release, how to answer questions at job interviews, led by some quality counselors, which is often not the case in prison. 

 

In addition, there were sentence reduction incentives through MAP (mutual agreement plans) programs whereby an inmate could agree to take a class in exchange for early release. It was a pet program of parris glendenning, I believe.  

 

You got to get out of your cell and go across the street to a nice, brand new facility for 7 or 8 hours a day and go to an actual school (Baltimore community college). You even got a certificate from the school when you completed the course, complete with a graduation day where your family could come and watch you graduate and hang out for a bit.

 

Do you know they couldn't fill those classes to save their lives? 

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Gamebreaker

Gamebreaker

Posted
Posted
Just now, grego said:

 

I don't know what it's like now, but 20 or so years ago, there was a program for prisoners at the Baltimore City Correctional Center. Inmates could sign up for about 7 different vocations ranging from basic computer operation and typing to auto mechanics to carpentry. They also had classes in how to apply for jobs after release, how to answer questions at job interviews, les by some quality counselors, which is often not the case in prison. 

 

In addition, there were sentence reduction incentives through MAP (mutual agreement plans) programs whereby an inmate could agree to take a class in exchange for early release. It was a pet program of parris glendenning, I believe.  

 

You got to get out of your cell and go across the street to a nice, brand new facility for 7 or 8 hours a day and go to an actual school (Baltimore community college). You even got a certificate from the school when you completed the course, complete with a graduation day where your family could come and watch you graduate and hang out for a bit.

 

Do you know they couldn't fill those classes to save their lives? 

 

Well, I guess that somehow justifies those classes all but disappearing and being replaced with one-step above slavery at $.11/hr for corporations who want cheap labor to manufacturer their products. #capitalism

 

But to be serious for a second, I'm not surprised those classes aren't filled. If those inmates didn't have psychological and social issues they would've pursued some of those paths when they were free. Others, have been conditioned to believe it's no different than the poorly funded education that they were taught not to believe in. But the fact that some chose those options is better than NO ONE in those predicaments having the option at all. 

 

But this is pretty off-topic, Dylann Roof had zero chance of taking advantage of those programs even if he wasn't getting the death penalty anyway. It's either life in prison or lethal injection...eventually. 

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grego

grego

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

Well, I guess that somehow justifies those classes all but disappearing and being replaced with one-step above slavery at $.11/hr for corporations who want cheap labor to manufacturer their products. #capitalism

 

But to be serious for a second, I'm not surprised those classes aren't filled. If those inmates didn't have psychological and social issues they would've pursued some of those paths when they were free. Others, have been conditioned to believe it's no different than the poorly funded education that they were taught not to believe in. But the fact that some chose those options is better than NO ONE in those predicaments having the option at all. 

 

But this is pretty off-topic, Dylann Roof had zero chance of taking advantage of those programs even if he wasn't getting the death penalty anyway. It's either life in prison or lethal injection...eventually. 

 

$. 11 per hour is actually step up from 20 years ago. 

 

Certainly, there are people with psychological or social problems in prison. And that shouldn't prevent many if not most of them from taking these classes. 

 

There are also many Inmates who tell you directly that they are going sell drugs when they get out. Not because they are psychologically damaged, but because the money is just too good. Not surprisingly, the recidivism rate is extremely high.

 

I'm not sure at what point it is that personal accountability kicks in. 

 

One thing is certain, the vast majority of incarcerated men come from broken homes. That, we'll agree, is not their fault. 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
Just now, Kilmer17 said:

Fair enough.  What is the central point for you?

Certain crimes mean removing you from this life.

 

Walking into a church and shooting a bunch of people simply because they're black falls into that category for me.

 

Having such an opinion is easy when you're not responsible for writing laws to apply to everyone, I get that.

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  • 2 weeks later...
s0crates

s0crates

Posted
Posted
On January 11, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Larry said:

 

I can understand that reasoning. But to me, I think there are some crimes, for which death is justice. It just feels right, to me. 

 

And no, I'm not sure I can specify a difference between "justice" and "revenge". 

 

 

 

 

I agree there are some crimes for which death is justice, but I don't think it's just a feeling. It's about fairness and giving people what they deserve. You might say, for example, that my right to life is contingent upon my placing myself under an obligation not to kill, and if I break that contract I give up that right.

 

The trouble is sometimes innocent people are convicted of capital offenses, and if we kill an innocent, then we've commited murder. (Which reminds me of an epitaph I saw in Tombstone that read "He was right and we was wrong but we hanged him now he's gone").

 

Given that, I guess I'd say that capital punishment is just in theory but unjust in practice.

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Kosher Ham

Kosher Ham

Posted
Posted

With the tech we have now... especially in a situation like this...

This dude certainly does not even deserve a new trial. 

Shut it down. 

 

..Sorry, but I can not stand people who kill for no reason. They get no remorse from me. 

 

The guy that gets 10 years over some drug crime, does not equal something like this. 

Our criminal system is screwed up based on the female teachers who have sex with students thread alone. 

 

The whole thing is getting out of hand. 

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