Mike Shanahan Tells All on ESPN 980 (RGIII, McNabb, Manning, Haynseworth) Link included w/ Audio

[Burgold]

So that would have been during the Gibbs II tenure.  I get it, he is Joe Gibbs. But it's amazing how little flack he gets for his trades yet people are still harping on the McNabb trade under Shanny.

 

Well, it's a bit unfair to castrate a guy for trades that never happened.  Who knows if they were even real or just some rumor that floated up from some cesspool's imagination.

 

McNabb actually happened. You can judge the results.  Gallery was never traded for. Not close to the same story.

[justice98]

I remember experts saying that Gallery was a can't miss pick and would be playing tackle for years. Ended up being a decent guard I think. We went years having Samuels and Jansen at tackle on each side. Why can't we find a decent right tackle?

 

We haven't really tried.  It's been a cavalcade of stopgap free agents, castoffs, and late round draft picks.  Samuels and Jansen were 1st and 2nd round picks, respectively.  If you're not gonna spend draft resources or cap space, then you're gonna get what you get and hope you get lucky with some diamond in the rough.

[justice98]

I was ready to come in here and counter that, despite the interceptions Cousins still had a higher QB rating. However, I checked the numbers and Griffin ended the season about half a point higher. So, I have to concede that (despite what my eyes told me) Griffin put up slightly better numbers and Cousins did. It definitely tears down my argument some, even though I think it is a little telling that despite a couple awful games, Cousins still had a similar rating. I see that as proof that Cousins could develop into a more effective QB, but admit that those numbers are open to interpretation. 

 

I just like debating with someone who's classy and logical. Cheers!

 

But Cousins Total QBR was higher, which is a better measure than the old QB rating. You can look at the numbers 100 different ways, such as Cousins had 6 more TDs and 25 fewer sacks in 10 fewer pass attempts.  Your eyes told you the correct thing, Cousins was the better QB last year, he just was.

[justice98]

I wasn't really even trying to say that Griffin put up better numbers, I try not to get too hung up on the raw counting stats or ratings.

I think last year Kirk executes Jay's offense better then Griffin but also threw costly picks. But for me its not surprising that Kirk executed Jay's offense better because it was drop back heavy and Kirk has more experience in a rhythm drop back passing game. But, for me its merely a matter of time before Griffin can close that and the talent surpasses Cousins.

 

 

That's not an insignificant detail though. How much time is the question.  A short time or a long time.  Personally, I think it'll be a long time, such that we will have moved on by the time he gets it, if he ever does.  And I wouldn't fault the team if they ran out of patience.  You can't be 5-6 years in still watching him learn the basics of playing QB.

 

Potential wise, yes, Griffin can surpass Cousins.  But I think people miss the boat suggesting Griffin has all this room to grow and Cousins doesn't have any.  Cousins can get a lot better too, I don't think he gets enough credit like he's at his ceiling already.  The guy has barely played in the scheme of things.  If the situations were reversed and Cousins had started all the games Griffin had started and had all those starts under his belt, he'd be a totally different guy right now.  That's a lot of learning experiences and development on the field he never had a chance to work through.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Well, it's a bit unfair to castrate a guy for trades that never happened.  Who knows if they were even real or just some rumor that floated up from some cesspool's imagination.

 

McNabb actually happened. You can judge the results.  Gallery was never traded for. Not close to the same story.

 

 So let's judge the other trades I mentioned in that post as they actually happened too.

We haven't really tried.  It's been a cavalcade of stopgap free agents, castoffs, and late round draft picks.  Samuels and Jansen were 1st and 2nd round picks, respectively.  If you're not gonna spend draft resources or cap space, then you're gonna get what you get and hope you get lucky with some diamond in the rough.

 

I think they really tried with Jamal Brown, a 29 year old 2 time Pro Bowler.  They just caught a bad break, or had a bad diagnosis, on the extent of his injury. 

[justice98]

 So let's judge the other trades I mentioned in that post as they actually happened too.

 

I think they really tried with Jamal Brown, a 29 year old 2 time Pro Bowler.  They just caught a bad break, or had a bad diagnosis, on the extent of his injury. 

 

I would say that was their best attempt, but even that wasn't great, given his health coming in. There were two major surgeries between his last Pro Bowl (which I believe was his last game action before he got traded) and when we got a hold of him.  He wasn't terrible when he played, but his best days were clearly behind him. 

[pjfootballer]

But since it was Joe Gibbs, and not Mike Shanahan, it's as if he somehow gets a pass.

 

Yes, he DOES get a pass.

 

Gibbs won 3 SBs in 4 years for "this" franchise and turned us into a dynasty and used 3 different QBs and RBs to win them. He's the face of the franchise to this day.

Shanahan won 0 SBs for "this" franchise and won 2 with another team using the same QB and RB. His face reminds many of a rat that spent too much time in a tanning bed.

 

Gibbs came back out of the bottom of his heart.  He didn't "have" to come back.  He was out of the game for over 10 years, yet took an aging, talentless, injured team to the playoffs 2 times in 4 tries, won 1 playoff game and was a "stone hands" INT away from an NFCCG.

Shanahan came to the team for money.  He was only out of the game for 1 year.  He took a talentless team to the playoffs 1 time, winning 0.

 

Gibbs resigned because he had an ill grandson, Sean passed and he just couldn't give the time that he felt he needed for the team.

Shanahan resigned because he he didn't like confrontation, didn't want to take partial blame for the mess and was an ego-maniac.

 

Gibbs has never said on cross word about this team ever.  He's still a Redskins fan today and says nothing but good things about the franchise.

Shanahan in less than 1 month of his current contract expiring, "spills the bad beans" about the francise.  Trying to tell us things we already knew.

 

Both made terrible trades. That I agree with.

 

So yes, he DOES get a pass.  He deserves ANY pass.  He could come back for a 3rd coaching stint and go 12-32 in three seasons and he'd STILL get a pass.  If Shanahan had brought us at least 1 Lombardi, he may have been given a pass around here. But he doesn't.  He just needs to go away and stop trying to inject his poison into the franchise.  We've moved on.  It's time that he did.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yes, he DOES get a pass.

 

Gibbs won 3 SBs in 4 years for "this" franchise and turned us into a dynasty and used 3 different QBs and RBs to win them. He's the face of the franchise to this day.

Shanahan won 0 SBs for "this" franchise and won 2 with another team using the same QB and RB. His face reminds many of a rat that spent too much time in a tanning bed.

 

Gibbs came back out of the bottom of his heart.  He didn't "have" to come back.  He was out of the game for over 10 years, yet took an aging, talentless, injured team to the playoffs 2 times in 4 tries, won 1 playoff game and was a "stone hands" INT away from an NFCCG.

Shanahan came to the team for money.  He was only out of the game for 1 year.  He took a talentless team to the playoffs 1 time, winning 0.

 

Gibbs resigned because he had an ill grandson, Sean passed and he just couldn't give the time that he felt he needed for the team.

Shanahan resigned because he he didn't like confrontation, didn't want to take partial blame for the mess and was an ego-maniac.

 

Gibbs has never said on cross word about this team ever.  He's still a Redskins fan today and says nothing but good things about the franchise.

Shanahan in less than 1 month of his current contract expiring, "spills the bad beans" about the francise.  Trying to tell us things we already knew.

 

Both made terrible trades. That I agree with.

 

So yes, he DOES get a pass.  He deserves ANY pass.  He could come back for a 3rd coaching stint and go 12-32 in three seasons and he'd STILL get a pass.  If Shanahan had brought us at least 1 Lombardi, he may have been given a pass around here. But he doesn't.  He just needs to go away and stop trying to inject his poison into the franchise.  We've moved on.  It's time that he did.

 

 

This is ridiculous. 

 

I'm old enough to remember what it was like before Joe Gibbs got here.  Nobody was a bigger fan of what he did and just as importantly how he did it than I was. 

 

But to give the man a lifetime pass, to totally overlook all the mistakes he did in his second go round while running Shanny up the flag poll for the McNabb trade, is just stupid IMO. Mr. Gibbs absolutely crippled this team by trading away so many high draft choices.  It's a fact and I"m not afraid to post it. 

 

Now  a year from now if Griffis busts then we can add that to the Shanny legacy.  But I'm talking about what has taken place to date. 

[Riggo#44]

So that would have been during the Gibbs II tenure.  I get it, he is Joe Gibbs. But it's amazing how little flack he gets for his trades yet people are still harping on the McNabb trade under Shanny.

 

I did a breakdown a few years ago on another board and it was really really bad.  Trading up and drafting Jason Campbell, trading up to draft that RT from Penn State who never played, bilked out of a 2nd in the Champ for Portis deal, TJ Duckett, Brandon Lloyd, a 3rd for the old guard from the Jets who played like a year..  It was something like 2 1's, a 2, 3 3's and 3 4ths for nothing.   His short sighted moves gutted the team's future.

 

But since it was Joe Gibbs, and not Mike Shanahan, it's as if he somehow gets a pass.

 

Check your history. That Penn State RT was Andre Johnson under Turner. And that "old guard" was Randy Thomas under Spurrier--who played quite well for us for a number of years.

[pjfootballer]

This is ridiculous.

I'm old enough to remember what it was like before Joe Gibbs got here. Nobody was a bigger fan of what he did and just as importantly how he did it than I was.

But to give the man a lifetime pass, to totally overlook all the mistakes he did in his second go round while running Shanny up the flag poll for the McNabb trade, is just stupid IMO. Mr. Gibbs absolutely crippled this team by trading away so many high draft choices. It's a fact and I"m not afraid to post it.

Now a year from now if Griffis busts then we can add that to the Shanny legacy. But I'm talking about what has taken place to date.

Shanahan made as many mistakes as Gibbs did his second go around. That is my point. Both had bad four year runs, but Gibbs got a little more out of his. I feel like you just glossed over everything I said, just to defend Shanahan. You list multiple thing Gibbs did wrong, yet only list the McNabb trade as Shanahan's only mistake. What has taken place to date is multiple mistakes by both coaches trying to turn the franchise around.

At this point, I'd really would like to see us forget about Shanahan as a fanbase and just move on.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Shanahan made as many mistakes as Gibbs did his second go around. That is my point. Both had bad four year runs, but Gibbs got a little more out of his. I feel like you just glossed over everything I said, just to defend Shanahan. You list multiple thing Gibbs did wrong, yet only list the McNabb trade as Shanahan's only mistake. What has taken place to date is multiple mistakes by both coaches trying to turn the franchise around.

At this point, I'd really would like to see us forget about Shanahan as a fanbase and just move on.

 

My bad on the tackle from Penn State, I found that in my research. I didn't gloss over everything you said.  I thought I addressed it when I said I totally disagree that what Joe Gibbs did in his first stint gives him a lifetime pass for all the damage he did later. For the record Shanny didn't resign because he didn't like confrontation, he was fired after confronting the owner about enabling the QB

 

With that said let's review the moves Joe Gibbs made.  Again if Griff busts this changes the equation,  But to date Shanny does not have this much baggage in his history:

 

1st a 3rd and a future 4th for the rights to draft Jason Campbell

A 4th (and a big contract) for 34 year old Pete Kendall.

A 3rd for TJ Duckett

An unnecessary 2nd along with HOF Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis

A 3rd and future 4th for Brandon Lloyd

 

So that's a first, a second,  2 thirds and 3 fourths Joe Gibbs threw away. Put that with the big cap hits for players like AA and ARE and Joe Gibbs II did a lot of damage to their long term future and the team was in shambles when he left.  To me those 2 playoff performances, where they scared nobody, as well as an overall losing record was not worth the long term price they paid.

 

And I'm  sure not ready to give him a pass or call his second go round "pretty good" or whatever description another poster used. 

[grego]

 

 

 If Shanahan had brought us at least 1 Lombardi, he may have been given a pass around here. But he doesn't.  He just needs to go away and stop trying to inject his poison into the franchise.  

 

 

as much as i've criticized shanahan and come to dislike him over the past 18 months or so, if he just took a little responsibility for his time here, i'd have given him a pass. 

[Burgold]

Yes, he DOES get a pass.

 

Gibbs won 3 SBs in 4 years for "this" franchise and turned us into a dynasty and used 3 different QBs and RBs to win them. He's the face of the franchise to this day.

Shanahan won 0 SBs for "this" franchise and won 2 with another team using the same QB and RB. His face reminds many of a rat that spent too much time in a tanning bed.

Amen

 

This is ridiculous. 

 

 

 BOOOOO!!!!

as much as i've criticized shanahan and come to dislike him over the past 18 months or so, if he just took a little responsibility for his time here, i'd have given him a pass. 

I wouldn't give him a pass, but I would deal with it better and have a much better view of him.

[HTTRDynasty]

But Cousins Total QBR was higher, which is a better measure than the old QB rating. You can look at the numbers 100 different ways, such as Cousins had 6 more TDs and 25 fewer sacks in 10 fewer pass attempts.  Your eyes told you the correct thing, Cousins was the better QB last year, he just was.

 

You mean the BS stat BSPN created that no one else in the NFL uses or respects?  The stat that ESPN doesn't share the formula for because they know they wouldn't be able to defend it if they did?  That stat?

[Darrell Green Fan]

Amen

 

 BOOOOO!!!!

I wouldn't give him a pass, but I would deal with it better and have a much better view of him.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I loved Joe Gibbs.  But NOBODY is above criticism.  You guys are acting like a cult if you are willing to overlook all the damage he did in his second stint under the umbrella protection of a lifetime pass  Then you boo posters who are not afraid to point it out.  That is, as I said, ridiculous.  

[Rskins06]

2 Playoff appearances in 4 years will earn him a little more of a pass than MS.  Was it great or even close to his first stint as HC, absolutely not.  In the 80's and early 90's, he had REAL personnel men filling the roster, the 2nd stint, he had Snyder and Cerrato so considering he got to 2 playoffs with both of them running personnel, that in itself deserves a medal.

 

There were definitely bad FA signings, drafts, etc. and Gibbs II was a big part of that and should share some responsibility for it.  However, this has been DS team and he has meddled in it with every HC (except Marty)  since owning the team.  Today is no option, he still has too much influence on player decisions.

 

I loved with Gibbs I, but only liked Gibbs II (if that makes any sense at all).

[RandyHolt]

A lot is made of Gruden's comments about RG3 not knowing this step count, sides of the field etc.

 

One thing that we as fans rarely to never get to see, is the playbook. And, what plays were called versus which were practiced and in the game plan. The complexity of the system, and terminology.

 

I remember hearing stories about the vaunted 800 page Al Saunders playbook. Dumped fully onto Jason. In year 2, they paired it down to 400 pages, exactly backwards.

 

RG3 got his new playbook, got into 1 game in the new system, and got injured.

 

Play conspiracy theorist. Let's say 3 texted and played on social media instead of rehab and learning the new system. Gruden knew this and wanted to teach the kid a lesson.  How difficult would be it be to call plays he knows RG3 will likely not know? Simple, I would think.

 

I wonder if that is what happened. I try to explain why Jay turned to the media about this. It was all very odd.

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 Playoff appearances in 4 years will earn him a little more of a pass than MS.  Was it great or even close to his first stint as HC, absolutely not.  In the 80's and early 90's, he had REAL personnel men filling the roster, the 2nd stint, he had Snyder and Cerrato so considering he got to 2 playoffs with both of them running personnel, that in itself deserves a medal.

 

There were definitely bad FA signings, drafts, etc. and Gibbs II was a big part of that and should share some responsibility for it.  However, this has been DS team and he has meddled in it with every HC (except Marty)  since owning the team.  Today is no option, he still has too much influence on player decisions.

 

I loved with Gibbs I, but only liked Gibbs II (if that makes any sense at all).

 

That is a bit more fair.  I will still argue that the amount of picks Gibbs threw away was not worth 2 quick playoff exits when we look at the big picture but I hear what you are saying, those 2 playoff runs were great.  

 

And no doubt the problem is Daniel Snyder. But again if it was a problem with Gibbs II then it was a problem with Shanny as well.  That's again an unfair double standard to apply Snyder's input to Gibbs' second stay while not saying it had an influence when Shanahan was here as well.  But for somre reason nobody wants to do that.  They say Shanahan had total control. Well so did Joe Gibbs.  And we saw what he did to the future of this team with his panic, short sighted trades.

[TheLongshot]

The difference between Shanahan and Gibbs: Gibbs owned up to his mistakes.  Shanahan hasn't and probably never will.

[Darrell Green Fan]

The difference between Shanahan and Gibbs: Gibbs owned up to his mistakes.  Shanahan hasn't and probably never will.

 

Has Gibbs owned up to all the bad trades he made?  Not to be a smart ass but please show your work.  I don't remember him ever dong that.  Shanny did in fact own up to some of his mistakes in that presser. But again if you have been fired, unjustly in your eyes, and have read all the false reports I"m pretty sure you would have spent the majority of the time trying to set the record straight, not trashing yourself. 

[TheLongshot]

Has Gibbs owned up to all the bad trades he made?  Not to be a smart ass but please show your work.  I don't remember him ever dong that.  Shanny did in fact own up to some of his mistakes in that presser. But again if you have been fired, unjustly in your eyes, and have read all the false reports I"m pretty sure you would have spent the majority of the time trying to set the record straight, not trashing yourself. 

 

Right after the 2006 season and the 2007 offseason he expressed regrets that he didn't build more through the draft and that at that point going forward the Skins would be focused more on keeping their draft picks.  I wish I had the articles that said as much, but with the exception of trading for a veteran guard, the team didn't make the trades they did in the past.

 

Also, if Shanahan truly believes he didn't deserve to be fired, it is the height of arrogance from him.  Basically we found out last year that he built very little here and really haven't progressed that far from when he arrived.  Hard to argue that he deserved more time.

[Skinsinparadise]

IMO spot on column from Steinberg as to the Shanny interview.  To me it would be one thing if the whole its everyone's fault but mine drill was an exception for Shanny but its not.  It's his thing, its how he rolled here.  It's Dan, Bruce, RG3, the salary cap penalty, McNabb, injuries or the it just takes time excuse.

 

If there was a part 2 to that interview -- wonder how he would pin on Dan, Dr. Andrews, Bruce, etc -- what happened with Haz, Keith Burns, the J. Brown trade, the 2013 draft, swearing by Rex-Beck, and the litany of FA busts (Atogwe, M. Williams, Josh Morgan, Buchanon, Kemoeatu, A. Hicks, A. Bryant, L. Johnson, S. Locklear, J. Wilson and on and on)

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/02/23/mike-shanahan-continues-to-blame-everyone-but-himself-for-his-failure-with-the-redskins/

 

Here's part of it, the whole thing is worth a read

 

That’s what made his performance during last week’s six-segment, hour-plus tell-all appearance on ESPN 980 particularly remarkable. While reviewing what went wrong over four failed seasons in Washington, Shanahan found plenty of culprits. Daniel Snyder was meddling. Albert Haynesworth didn’t want to try. Donovan McNabb was washed-up. The roster was old. Dr. James Andrews was unreliable. Robert Griffin III was headstrong. Robert Griffin III was pouty. Robert Griffin III was misleading. Robert Griffin III was vain.

But you know who didn’t bear much responsibility, in Mike Shanahan’s retelling, for that 24-40 record, that .375 winning percentage? Yeah, you can probably figure it out. It was the same guy who was asked at his introductory press conference whether he had final say over personnel matters.

“Do I have the final say? Maybe you could say that,” Shanahan responded. Sure, but it was the kind of final say where if anyone made a mess, Shanahan’s hands stayed clean.

[grego]

Has Gibbs owned up to all the bad trades he made?  Not to be a smart ass but please show your work.  I don't remember him ever dong that.  Shanny did in fact own up to some of his mistakes in that presser. But again if you have been fired, unjustly in your eyes, and have read all the false reports I"m pretty sure you would have spent the majority of the time trying to set the record straight, not trashing yourself. 

 

DGF, what false reports do you feel like shanny was responding to?

[MattFancy]

IMO spot on column from Steinberg as to the Shanny interview.  To me it would be one thing if the whole its everyone's fault but mine drill was an exception for Shanny but its not.  It's his thing, its how he rolled here.  It's Dan, Bruce, RG3, the salary cap penalty, McNabb, injuries or the it just takes time excuse.

 

If there was a part 2 to that interview -- wonder how he would pin on Dan, Dr. Andrews, Bruce, etc -- what happened with Haz, Keith Burns, the J. Brown trade, the 2013 draft, swearing by Rex-Beck, and the litany of FA busts (Atogwe, M. Williams, Josh Morgan, Buchanon, Kemoeatu, A. Hicks, A. Bryant, L. Johnson, S. Locklear, J. Wilson and on and on)

 

 

Agreed with Steinberg. I'm not saying Snyder/Allen/RG3 didn't also play a part, but RG3 was here for only 2 years during Shanny's time and one of those years happened to be Shanny's best season here.

 

It really did seem that when asked about moves that didn't work, it was always someone else's fault, but never Mike's. The one I won't argue about is the Haynesworth situation. Everyone knew that was going to be a disaster from the beginning. Now maybe Mike didn't do anything to help, but Haynesworth was useless to begin with.

 

I still don't believe that Shanny didn't want McNabb. Maybe he didn't agree with the picks, but I don't believe Snyder/Allen would have brought in the 1st big accquistion with Mike there and not had his support. I know Synder/Allen aren't the brightest, but I can't imagine they'd bring in a QB that Mike was totally against. Same thing with the Griffin trade. Mike may have disagreed with the cost, but I don't think he was against it. Remember that picture of Mike and RG3 being all buddy-buddy at RG3's pro day at Baylor? That didn't look like someone who didn't want the guy.

 

Again, I don't think 100% of the blame is on Mike. But his record speaks for itself, 24-40. That wasn't all because of Snyder/Allen, Haynesworth, McNabb or RG3.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

IMO spot on column from Steinberg as to the Shanny interview.  To me it would be one thing if the whole its everyone's fault but mine drill was an exception for Shanny but its not.  It's his thing, its how he rolled here.  It's Dan, Bruce, RG3, the salary cap penalty, McNabb, injuries or the it just takes time excuse.

 

If there was a part 2 to that interview -- wonder how he would pin on Dan, Dr. Andrews, Bruce, etc -- what happened with Haz, Keith Burns, the J. Brown trade, the 2013 draft, swearing by Rex-Beck, and the litany of FA busts (Atogwe, M. Williams, Josh Morgan, Buchanon, Kemoeatu, A. Hicks, A. Bryant, L. Johnson, S. Locklear, J. Wilson and on and on)

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/02/23/mike-shanahan-continues-to-blame-everyone-but-himself-for-his-failure-with-the-redskins/

 

Here's part of it, the whole thing is worth a read

I liked this part lol:

"If Mike Shanahan smashed a dozen eggs, he’d blame the chicken."