Mike Shanahan Tells All on ESPN 980 (RGIII, McNabb, Manning, Haynseworth) Link included w/ Audio

[pjfootballer]

My bad on the tackle from Penn State, I found that in my research. I didn't gloss over everything you said.  I thought I addressed it when I said I totally disagree that what Joe Gibbs did in his first stint gives him a lifetime pass for all the damage he did later. For the record Shanny didn't resign because he didn't like confrontation, he was fired after confronting the owner about enabling the QB

 

With that said let's review the moves Joe Gibbs made.  Again if Griff busts this changes the equation,  But to date Shanny does not have this much baggage in his history:

 

1st a 3rd and a future 4th for the rights to draft Jason Campbell

A 4th (and a big contract) for 34 year old Pete Kendall.

A 3rd for TJ Duckett

An unnecessary 2nd along with HOF Champ Bailey for Clinton Portis

A 3rd and future 4th for Brandon Lloyd

 

So that's a first, a second,  2 thirds and 3 fourths Joe Gibbs threw away. Put that with the big cap hits for players like AA and ARE and Joe Gibbs II did a lot of damage to their long term future and the team was in shambles when he left.  To me those 2 playoff performances, where they scared nobody, as well as an overall losing record was not worth the long term price they paid.

 

And I'm  sure not ready to give him a pass or call his second go round "pretty good" or whatever description another poster used. 

 

Well, again, I see that you've listed all of Gibbs screwups, but not Shanahan's.  Shanahan didn't throw away draft picks like Gibbs, but he didn't do a good job of maximizing the one's he did have.  Alot of Mike's draft picks were and are still busts. The other intangables like the leaks, alienating himself from players and choosing poor coaches (especially on defense) are just as damaging as Gibbs giving away picks.

 

But, anyway, the point I'm trying to get at with Gibbs is, he didn't have to come back.  He could have sat on his million dollar NASCAR throne and told Dan, I'm sorry, but I'm too old for that.  But no, he put his selfishness aside for the good of a franchise that he dearly loves and came back for four years, dedicated his own time away from his family for this team.  I could just imagine what his wife Pat said when he decided to coach again.  I mean, she was a football widow for 25+ years counting his assistant coaching duties.

 

I think the sacrifice alone by him to give up 4 more yeas of his life to try and put out this dumpster fire was one of the biggest things he could have ever done. One difference in the two coaches is, everything Gibbs tried to do (right or wrong) with his personel or coaching moves was for the love of the team and was thinking in the best interest of the team.  Shanahan, at first was probably doing the same thing, but it became apparent at the end that all his moves (right or wrong) was more along the lines of what was good for him and not the team.

 

I don't hate Shanahan.  I truly belived he would turn us around, just like I did with Gibbs, but at this point all I hear from Shanahan is "blah, blah, blah, me, blah, blah, blah."  He just needs to go away, just like Spurrier, Zorn and Turner before him. Let's move forward. As fans, as coaches, the front office, owner and the franchise. Move forward and stop rehashing the past.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Well, again, I see that you've listed all of Gibbs screwups, but not Shanahan's.

Every... EVERY coaching regime since Dan has been involved has been riddled with ridiculous trades, free agent signings, and overall dysfunction. Marty is the only exception... so Dan fired him.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Right after the 2006 season and the 2007 offseason he expressed regrets that he didn't build more through the draft and that at that point going forward the Skins would be focused more on keeping their draft picks.  I wish I had the articles that said as much, but with the exception of trading for a veteran guard, the team didn't make the trades they did in the past.

 

Also, if Shanahan truly believes he didn't deserve to be fired, it is the height of arrogance from him.  Basically we found out last year that he built very little here and really haven't progressed that far from when he arrived.  Hard to argue that he deserved more time.

 

 

No need to dig up the article, I believe you and it's good to hear.

 

The big difference is nobody trashed Joe Gibbs after he left.  Shanny has been a whipping boy from all sides since he left.  So why is it surprising to see him take an interview and try to set the record straight?  Again nobody was saying this sort of thing about Joe Gibbs.

 

I've been a huge RGIII guy from the second they made that trade.  I was happy my team showed the balls to dare to be great.  But all that ended halfway through last year.   If I am Mike Shanahan I am very bitter at how this kid was enabled by the owner and got his way, I'd be pissed that I was fired for things that were out of my control and I'm pissed that my legacy has been damaged. 

 

So we have one coach who was handcuffed by the owner and didn't win as much as we hoped.  He also made some bad moves but he was also handcuffed by a lockout, a year with no FA movement, a BS cap penalty that KILLED his 2 year plan, and a diva QB who was enabled by the owner.  Then we have another head coach who was nearly as unsuccessful with personnel ( I can argue his moves had worse long term ramifications), really wasn't that much more successful on the field, and he is still revered and is given a pass because of what he did 2 decades prior.

 

Just doesn't seem fair to me. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Well, again, I see that you've listed all of Gibbs screwups, but not Shanahan's.  Shanahan didn't throw away draft picks like Gibbs, but he didn't do a good job of maximizing the one's he did have.  Alot of Mike's draft picks were and are still busts. The other intangables like the leaks, alienating himself from players and choosing poor coaches (especially on defense) are just as damaging as Gibbs giving away picks.

 

But, anyway, the point I'm trying to get at with Gibbs is, he didn't have to come back.  He could have sat on his million dollar NASCAR throne and told Dan, I'm sorry, but I'm too old for that.  But no, he put his selfishness aside for the good of a franchise that he dearly loves and came back for four years, dedicated his own time away from his family for this team.  I could just imagine what his wife Pat said when he decided to coach again.  I mean, she was a football widow for 25+ years counting his assistant coaching duties.

 

I think the sacrifice alone by him to give up 4 more yeas of his life to try and put out this dumpster fire was one of the biggest things he could have ever done. One difference in the two coaches is, everything Gibbs tried to do (right or wrong) with his personel or coaching moves was for the love of the team and was thinking in the best interest of the team.  Shanahan, at first was probably doing the same thing, but it became apparent at the end that all his moves (right or wrong) was more along the lines of what was good for him and not the team.

 

I don't hate Shanahan.  I truly belived he would turn us around, just like I did with Gibbs, but at this point all I hear from Shanahan is "blah, blah, blah, me, blah, blah, blah."  He just needs to go away, just like Spurrier, Zorn and Turner before him. Let's move forward. As fans, as coaches, the front office, owner and the franchise. Move forward and stop rehashing the past.

 

Again I was simply trying to get you to explain just how costly Gibbs 2 was.  And again you want to give him a lifetime pass and I don't agree with it, I was simply trying to get you to understand why I'm not ready to give him a pass. 

 

I do not understand how you can say Gibbs' moves were for the good of the team and Shanny's were not.  Again more undeserved hate, how do you justify that statement?   I also don't agree that Shanny hiring a bad DC is just as damaging as Gibbs giving away so many picks, picks that could have turned into productive players years after he was gone.  That makes zero sense to me. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

I still don't believe that Shanny didn't want McNabb. Maybe he didn't agree with the picks, but I don't believe Snyder/Allen would have brought in the 1st big accquistion with Mike there and not had his support. I know Synder/Allen aren't the brightest, but I can't imagine they'd bring in a QB that Mike was totally against. Same thing with the Griffin trade. Mike may have disagreed with the cost, but I don't think he was against it. Remember that picture of Mike and RG3 being all buddy-buddy at RG3's pro day at Baylor? That didn't look like someone who didn't want the guy.

 

Again, I don't think 100% of the blame is on Mike. But his record speaks for itself, 24-40. That wasn't all because of Snyder/Allen, Haynesworth, McNabb or RG3.

 

I listened to the McNabb part of the interview again, seems like what Shanny was saying is yeah I wanted him but I got cover and here it is:

 

1.  He wanted Bulger more so McNabb wasn't his first choice

2.   He gave Bruce autonomy to make the trade but expected to get him for a ham sandwich and was shocked what Bruce gave up for him

3.  Danny wanted him the most.  

 

So my translation, well he had some doubts that's why Bulger and not McNabb was his top target.  Bruce was a buffoon for giving up all he did to get him.   And the biggest dummy was Dan, he was all in.   So for Shanny yeah he kind of wanted him but since Danny wanted him more -- Danny was the one who was dead wrong because he was a bust.

 

And in all of this, Shanny told Sheehan, Dan wasn't involved in personnel decisions and let him do his thing.  And he does own up he wanted McNabb he just buries that part of the lead by expounding on Bruce and Dan as being the bigger dummies when it came to the deal and somehow by extension that absolves him from blame.  

 

Mind you he was only the defacto GM -- how would he have any interest in what Bruce would give up for him, its perfectly natural for him to hear about the parameters of the deal after its done on sports center just like the rest of us.  

[grego]

 

 

I still don't believe that Shanny didn't want McNabb. Maybe he didn't agree with the picks, but I don't believe Snyder/Allen would have brought in the 1st big accquistion with Mike there and not had his support. e blame is on Mike. But his record speaks for itself, 24-40. That wasn't all because of Snyder/Allen, Haynesworth, McNabb or RG3.

 

so mike thoroughly implies (without flat out stating it) that dan was to blame for acquiring mcnabb. yet, later tells sheehan that dan didnt meddle in personnel decisions.

 

on thing that mike is a master of is semantics. "i think dan was the guy that wanted donovan the most". well, maybe he did, but does that mean mike didnt want donovan? of course not.

 

funny how that whole article reads like alot of posts in this thread, right down to the "now this isnt a defense of snyder..."

 

i think ive said that about a dozen times in the past week.

I listened to the McNabb part of the interview again, seems like what Shanny was saying is yeah I wanted him but I got cover and here it is:

 

1.  He wanted Bulger more so McNabb wasn't his first choice

2.   He gave Bruce autonomy to make the trade but expected to get him for a ham sandwich and was shocked what Bruce gave up for him

3.  Danny wanted him the most.  

 

So my translation, well he had some doubts that's why Bulger and not McNabb was his top target.  Bruce was a buffoon for giving up all he did to get him.   An the biggest dummy was Dan, he was all in.   So for Shanny yeah he kind of wanted him but since Danny wanted him more -- Danny was the one who was dead wrong because he was a bust.

 

And in all of this, Shanny told Sheehan, Dan wasn't involved in personnel decisions and let him do his thing.  And he does own up he wanted McNabb he just buries that part of the lead by expounding on Bruce and Dan as being the bigger dummies when it came to the deal and somehow by extension that absolves him from blame.  

 

Mind you he was only the defacto GM -- how would he have any interest in what Bruce would give up for him, its perfectly natural for him to hear about the parameters of the deal after its done on sports center just like the rest of us.  

 

 

you took the words right out of my mouth

[Supreme Wu]

No need to dig up the article, I believe you and it's good to hear.

 

The big difference is nobody trashed Joe Gibbs after he left.  Shanny has been a whipping boy from all sides since he left.  So why is it surprising to see him take an interview and try to set the record straight?  Again nobody was saying this sort of thing about Joe Gibbs.

 

.....

 

Just doesn't seem fair to me. 

 

Just to this point, Gibbs didn't leave in a miasma of controversy and media leaks and a bunch of other nastyness that went down when Shanahan was on the way out. That was a bitter breakup when Shanahan left, the popular take locally and nationally was that he just trying to burn it all down behind him and it sure seemed that way at the time.  Gibbs basically said 'Im done, sorry about not finishing the last year' and left. Who would you complain about more, the ex your still friends with or the ex that threw out all your clothes on the lawn and spread nasty rumors about you.

[respectgibbs]

Darrell Green Fan - starting respecting Gibbs!

[Voice_of_Reason]

Sheehan is in full throat defense of Mike mode.

It's comical.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Just to this point, Gibbs didn't leave in a miasma of controversy and media leaks and a bunch of other nastyness that went down when Shanahan was on the way out. That was a bitter breakup when Shanahan left, the popular take locally and nationally was that he just trying to burn it all down behind him and it sure seemed that way at the time.  Gibbs basically said 'Im done, sorry about not finishing the last year' and left. Who would you complain about more, the ex your still friends with or the ex that threw out all your clothes on the lawn and spread nasty rumors about you.

 

 

Again another fair point.  It still does not explain the total trashing of the guy IMO.  And again people want to give Mr. Gibbs a total pass and I just don't see that.

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan is in full throat defense of Mike mode.

It's comical.

 

Yeah I know, he's mostly hanging on the Haslett blaming Shanny for the defense previously -- the Haz unshackled story and other things that people blamed on him.  So Shanny needed to go tit for tat and lay out blame on others since blame has been laid out on his feet, previously.  Again, I'd get Sheehan's point if this was some big personality departure for Shanny -- but this is classic Shanny we saw it for 4 years, this is just him at it again as opposed to for the first time.  

 

Sheehan is double downing on the Dan wasn't meddling.  He said Shanny even told him there are other owners that are much more involved with their teams than him.  But he does blame Dan for cultivating a personal relationship with RG3.

[grego]

Sheehan is in full throat defense of Mike mode.

It's comical.

 

didnt he just talk about shanny claiming dan was meddling, but then just say that shanny told him dan didnt meddle?

 

i mean, wtf? is he listening to himself talk?

 

"mikes tenure here is in NO WAY comparable to spurriers or zorns....other than win percentage".

 

holy crap. 

 

Sheehan is double downing on the Dan wasn't meddling.  He said Shanny even told him there are other owners that are much more involved with their teams than him.  But he does blame Dan for cultivating a personal relationship with RG3.

 

once again, taking the words out of my mouth. 

 

i'm just glad i wasnt the only one. thought i was losing my mind for a minute.

[TheLongshot]

I listened to the McNabb part of the interview again, seems like what Shanny was saying is yeah I wanted him but I got cover and here it is:

 

1.  He wanted Bulger more so McNabb wasn't his first choice

2.   He gave Bruce autonomy to make the trade but expected to get him for a ham sandwich and was shocked what Bruce gave up for him

3.  Danny wanted him the most.  

 

So my translation, well he had some doubts that's why Bulger and not McNabb was his top target.  Bruce was a buffoon for giving up all he did to get him.   And the biggest dummy was Dan, he was all in.   So for Shanny yeah he kind of wanted him but since Danny wanted him more -- Danny was the one who was dead wrong because he was a bust.

 

And in all of this, Shanny told Sheehan, Dan wasn't involved in personnel decisions and let him do his thing.  And he does own up he wanted McNabb he just buries that part of the lead by expounding on Bruce and Dan as being the bigger dummies when it came to the deal and somehow by extension that absolves him from blame.  

 

Mind you he was only the defacto GM -- how would he have any interest in what Bruce would give up for him, its perfectly natural for him to hear about the parameters of the deal after its done on sports center just like the rest of us.  

 

The story I heard before all this was that Shanahan wanted McNabb but was going to pass on the price being too much, and Snyder giving him the Carte Blanche to move forward on it.  Shanahan can have buyers remorse on the whole thing, but Dan was doing what he was supposed to do: enable his football people to make what they think are the best football decisions.

 

I think the whole Bulger thing was funny because he hasn't been good in years.  I don't think he was any better than what we did have on the roster at the time.  McNabb made some vague sort of sense, but given how much of a disaster the roster was, I don't think he was worth the price for us.

[MattFancy]

 

I think the whole Bulger thing was funny because he hasn't been good in years.  I don't think he was any better than what we did have on the roster at the time.  McNabb made some vague sort of sense, but given how much of a disaster the roster was, I don't think he was worth the price for us.

 

Bulger was coming off a horrible season in 2009. McNabb was coming off a Pro Bowl season. So I'm not really sure what Shanny saw that made him think Bulger was the better choice? Bulger was released from the Rams the day after we traded for McNabb and then ended up signing with the Ravens and never saw a snap behind Joe Flacco. He retired in 2011. Again, not sure why Bulger was the better choice or even if he would have done anything better here than McNabb did.

[grego]

Bulger was coming off a horrible season in 2009. McNabb was coming off a Pro Bowl season. So I'm not really sure what Shanny saw that made him think Bulger was the better choice? Bulger was released from the Rams the day after we traded for McNabb and then ended up signing with the Ravens and never saw a snap behind Joe Flacco. He retired in 2011. Again, not sure why Bulger was the better choice or even if he would have done anything better here than McNabb did.

The Bulger thing still doesn't make sense and seems like a slam dunk for those who think Mike is engaging in revising history.

Why not bring in Bulger as a backup, if you wanted him more, considering he was released the next day?

Not shocked this is flying under sheehans bs detector.

[MattFancy]

The Bulger thing still doesn't make sense and seems like a slam dunk for those who think Mike is engaging in revising history.

Why not bring in Bulger as a backup, if you wanted him more, considering he was released the next day?

Not shocked this is flying under sheehans bs detector.

 

Or did they even try to bring him in in 2011? I don't remember any talk about that.

 

It seemed like the whole interview was just Mike telling his side, while Sheehan just drooled over everything.

[TheLongshot]

I remember the subject of Bulger coming up in 2010, tho it was hard to take it seriously.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Well, again, I see that you've listed all of Gibbs screwups, but not Shanahan's.  Shanahan didn't throw away draft picks like Gibbs, but he didn't do a good job ofmaximizing the one's he did have.  Alot of Mike's draft picks were and are still busts.

 

 

 I'd like to compare the 2, I've highlighted eventual contributers with a *

 

Here were Gibb's draft picks:

 

Sean Taylor*

Chris Cooley*

Mark Wilson

Jim Marlinaro

 

Carlos Rodgers*

Jason Campbell*  (*with a *, he was not a good pick)

Manual White

Robert McCune

Jarad Newberry

Neheimia Broughton

 

Rocky Macintosh*

Anthony Montgomery

Reed Doughty*

Cedrick Golston*

Kili Lefotu

Keven Simon

 

Laron Landry *

Dallas Sars

HD Blades

Jordan Palmer

Tyler Ecker

 

Devin Thomas

Fred Davis *

Malcolm Kelly

Chad Rhineheart

Justin Tryon

Durrant Brooks

Kareem Moore

Colt Brennan

Rob Jackson *

Chris Horton

 

Shanahan's Drafts:

 

Trent Williams *

Perry Riley *

Dennis Moore

Terrance Austin

Erik Cook

Selvish Capers

 

Kerrigan*

Jarvis Jenkins

Hankerson*

Roy Halu*

Gomes

Niles Paul*

Royster

Aldrick Robinson

Brandon Thompson

Maurice Hurt

Marcus White

Chris Neld

 

RGIII* (agian another question mark)

LeRebius

Kirk *

Keenan Robinson*

Adam Gettis

Afred Morris*

Tom Compton*

Richard Crawford

Bernstein

 

Amerson *

Jordan Reed*

Philip Thomas

Chris Thomas

Brandon Jenkins

Bacarri Rambo

J. Jamison

 

 

 

 

 

The jury's still out on the last draft, specifically David Amerson and Thomas.    But Gibbs only drafted 2 players, Taylor & Cooley, who had an impact with the Redskins.  He drafted other so so starters such as LL, Carlos Rogers and I guess Rocky Macintosh.  But that's about it.  

 

Shanny on the other hand found impactfull starters in Trent, Alfred, Kerrigan, Keenan Robinson (our 2nd best defensive player behind Kerrigan) as well as players who had contribute quite a bit in Jordan Reed, Helu, Riley, Niles Paul etc.

 

I just think Shanny's drafts were better over all.  Not great but better. 

[grego]

DGF- 

 

that last group, starting with devin thomas was after gibbs retired.

 

and i think some of the biggest criticism of mike comes from other FA moves and trades, outside of some of the draft picks.

[Burgold]

Gibbs II drafts (Contributors over four years)

Sean Taylor*

Chris Cooley*

Carlos Rodgers*

Jason Campbell*  (*with a *, he was not a good pick)

Rocky Macintosh*

Reed Doughty*

Cedrick Golston*

Laron Landry *

HD Blades

Fred Davis *

Chad Rhineheart

Rob Jackson *

Chris Horton

 

Shanahan's Drafts:

 

Trent Williams *

Perry Riley *

Kerigan*

Jarvis Jenkins

Roy Helu*

Niles Paul*

RGIII* (agian another question mark)

Kirk *

Keenan Robinson*

Afred Morris*

Amerson *

Jordan Reed*

Philip Thomas

 

Okay, using your list and ignoring the fact that Gibbs was coach and Shanny was GM. The lists look pretty even. Would I take Laron Landry over Phillip Thomas or Carlos Rogers over Amerson at this point? I probably would. Would I take Cooley over Jordan Reed. Again, at this point yes, heck, I might even take Fred Davis (though probably not).  Alfred Morris was a big winner for Shanny. Sean Taylor was a big winner for Gibbs. HD Blades and Riley probably is a win for Shanny.

 

Overall, I don't see Shanny getting much of an edge unless RGIII works out.

[MattFancy]

I don't think anyone was knocking Shanny's drafts. They weren't always great, but we did find some decent guys.

 

And seriously. I know he's been gone for a few years now, but it's ROGERS. CARLOS ROGERS. And it's HB, not HD Blades. HD Blades sounds like a network server.

[Darrell Green Fan]

OK OK cut me some slack, I kind of threw that list together as I was juggling work.  So sorry for the screw ups.  Again I was responding to a poster who was claiming that Shanny had so many screw ups it washed out Gibbs' bad signings and draft pick trades.

 

I think listing Chad Rheinhart, Blade and Chris Horton as contributors is a stretch.  If we're going that deep I could add Compton, Ribeye, Aldrick Robinson and several others to Shanny's list.    And you can't say you'll take Cooley over Jordan Reed or LL over Thomas so early in the young player's careers.  And Burgold left off 2 key players, Pro Bowlers Kerrigan and Trent.

[Supreme Wu]

You gave Hankerson a snowflake, I cant figure that one out.

[TheLongshot]

I don't think anyone was knocking Shanny's drafts. They weren't always great, but we did find some decent guys.

 

With the amount of picks we had, they should have been more productive drafts.  Also, one can criticize what positions we drafted and where. When Shanahan arrived, OL and FS were probably our biggest needs.  After he left, they still were.  Also, the lack of young defensive players drafted really hurt as some of our guys got old.

 

Now, the drafts weren't all on Shanahan, as our scouting of players has been an issue for years, but Shanahan has some responsibility here.

[Darrell Green Fan]

You gave Hankerson a snowflake, I cant figure that one out.

 

 

Yeah I'm not a big Hank guy either.  But when you have 6 TD and 1,000 yards you have at least contributed