Kilmer17 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Kilmer, while I agree with the gist of your post...I think your seemingly smug take and dismissal of women's sports is a bit much. I apologize in advance if I read that incorrectly. Not for nothing, most people today don't think twice about Jack. Don't even know who he is. It's sad and unfortunate, but true. That's my apology if it came off that way. I watch lots of women's sports. Soccer,Volleyball, even golf. But tennis is more of the issue for me then the gender of it. Richard Williams said from the very beginning that Serena was going to be better. This was when Venus was on top. Yep. I remember him saying aomething like- Venus needs to win a bunch now, because when her sister arrives , she'll be second class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's still WOMENS tennis. As opposed to golf? Watching golf is the activity of choice for people that tuck their polo shirt into their jeans. Without Tiger no one cares (again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's pretty funny to see the tiptoeing around making this a race debate from both sides Just dive in wussies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's pretty funny to see the tiptoeing around making this a race debate from both sides Just dive in wussies  Mother****er I ain't scared. Wait it did not say "wussies".  Talk about tiptoeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Admittedly I don't watch or know a lot about Tennis, so I probably am wrong, but I was just going by what I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's pretty funny to see the tiptoeing around making this a race debate from both sides Just dive in wussies It's not race, it's sex appeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Admittedly I don't watch or know a lot about Tennis, so I probably am wrong, but I was just going by what I remember. Â Fair enough. DM72 is correct about the statement about Serena being the better player, which was crazy at the time considering how good Venus was. Â zoony, just pulled a slick one on me. Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's pretty funny to see the tiptoeing around making this a race debate from both sides Just dive in wussies  I think it is more a bias against muscular women (as noted above)  some just can't handle a real woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 As opposed to golf? Watching golf is the activity of choice for people that tuck their polo shirt into their jeans. Without Tiger no one cares (again). Right. But comparingr what golf was with tiger 10 years ago to women's tennis today is crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Might she be a victim of her own success? When you win all the time and have no rival that really can, and does, defeat you often enough the story lines just aren't as compelling. Why does everyone want Mayweather to fight Pacman? It's not because the world is desperate to see yet another boring one sided snoozer of a fight. It's because the idea that he could lose makes the fight compelling. The world likes a vulnerable champion more than an unbeatable giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I think it is more a bias against muscular women (as noted above) Â some just can't handle a real woman. Â You into Chyna ? Â See that lady from the biggest loser show...maybe. I just don't like her jaw. The muscles aren't bigger than mine. Jaw still gives me a moment of doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's pretty funny to see the tiptoeing around making this a race debate from both sides Just dive in wussies Yeah it is funny. I don't know why people think it's about sex or race. Because here in the USA, we have a long history of not giving a superb athlete their due attention because of their skin color. It's about tennis. It's just not a popular sport over here. The Washington Kastles are an all star tennis team that has racked up a bunch of titles/championships. How many people in the area do you think know that? Of the ones that do how many know someone other than the Williams sisters on the teams? How many have actually been to a match? Race, gender? The issue is the popularity of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's not race, it's sex appeala lot of people find her sexy and she wears sexy outfits. Its really not that, but your comment does expose the race issue. It's pretty funny to see the tiptoeing around making this a race debate from both sides Just dive in wussies I guess you didnt read my first post. Yeah it is funny. I don't know why people think it's about sex or race. Because here in the USA, we have a long history of not giving a superb athlete their due attention because of their skin color. It's about tennis. It's just not a popular sport over here. The Washington Kastles are an all star tennis team that has racked up a bunch of titles/championships. How many people in the area do you think know that? Of the ones that do how many know someone other than the Williams sisters on the teams? How many have actually been to a match? Race, gender? The issue is the popularity of the sport. lol at using the Kastles as some example. Tennis is very popular in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 a lot of people find her sexy and she wears sexy outfits. Its really not that, but your comment does expose the race issue. I guess you didnt read my first post. lol at using the Kastles as some example. Tennis is very popular in this country. Â Yeah it's so popular that the open in September of 2014 drew the lowest ratings in US Opens history at 2.9 Â They haven't passed 3 in the ratings category since 2007. The last time they went above 3.5 million viewers. Â The PGA championship in 2014 drew a 6.0 rating. The final round actually went as high as 9.2. Â The average ratings for the NBA championship the last 4 years: 9.3, 10.4, 10.1, 10.2 Â The world series game 7 was 9.5 at the start, peaked at 16.2. Â The MLS championship in 2014 pulled in 964k viewers on ESPN's english channel (1.887 total including US spanish and english channels) Â It's barely more popular than the MLS, and it's significantly less popular than any of the other sports including Golf. Which is to say: it's not that popular (as a TV viewing sport) Â Which has nothing to do with how incredible of an athlete she is. It just explains why she's not being talked about all that much (or as much as you think she should be), and it conveniently does so without calling people racist or sexist. Which is a nice touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I remember how Chris Evert and Tracy Freakin' Austin never got commercials because this is America and America doesn't like tennis. Â I also remember how Tiger Woods never drew ratings because he had no real rival and was winning touranmens by 10 strokes and that's not fun. Â Anyway, I think some of this has to do with Serena - who is a big oddball in a lot of ways - and a lot to do with notions of race, gender, and notions of feminity. We want our Female tennis players to be somewhere between supermodels and the girl next door. Serena does not fit into that mold at all. Even though she is really attractive. Â Part of what made Tiger an icon was, in fact, the whole "Caublinasion" thing. He didn't look like what a PGA tour golfer used to look like....but he did look like the young IT millionaire who might join your country club and not shake things up too badly. If Tiger had looked like Allen Iverson, I imagine things would have played out somewhat differently. But I also don't really know how someone who looked like Allen Iverson could ever enter into the golf world in the first place. The revolution Tiger was supposed to spark never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You into Chyna ? Â Â Â the bolts sticking out of her neck kinda ruin it for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 I remember how Chris Evert and Tracy Freakin' Austin never got commercials because this is America and America doesn't like tennis. Â I also remember how Tiger Woods never drew ratings because he had no real rival and was winning touranmens by 10 strokes and that's not fun. Â Anyway, I think some of this has to do with Serena - who is a big oddball in a lot of ways - and a lot to do with notions of race, gender, and notions of feminity. We want our Female tennis players to be somewhere between supermodels and the girl next door. Serena does not fit into that mold at all. Even though she is really attractive. Â Part of what made Tiger an icon was, in fact, the whole "Caublinasion" thing. He didn't look like what a PGA tour golfer used to look like....but he did look like the young IT millionaire who might join your country club and not shake things up too badly. If Tiger had looked like Allen Iverson, I imagine things would have played out somewhat differently. But I also don't really know how someone who looked like Allen Iverson could ever enter into the golf world in the first place. The revolution Tiger was supposed to spark never happened. If I remember, Chris Everett did have some commercials. I also remember her being quite popular as opposed to Martina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2015/01/most-watched-sporting-events-2014-nfl-super-bowl-world-cup-olympics-bcs-nba-finals-world-series/  0 tennis in top 50 most watched sporting events of 2014. 0 tennis in top 50 most watched sporting events of 2014 - EXCLUDING NFL and olympics (but there's some FIFA and horse racing in that list... and the masters for golf.)  Most watched events by sport - Oh hey, there's women's tennis. Right below the Indy 500. 2.9 rating, 4.5 million viewers. The only sports it beat out: womens college basketball, MMA, mens tennis, womens golf, and the WNBA.  Looks tremendously popular to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The lack of rivals comment is also unfair. First, her sister was her rival and then the Belgian women. (Justin Henin was a nasty player and a cheat) But the fact that Serena is still playing at this high a level for so long and been better than her peers should not be held against her. Especially since the game has more players than ever now. Also this "women's game isnt as interesting" stuff is poppy****. In the early aughts, the women's game was constantly getting higher ratings than the men's game. Â I'm not sure why the lack of rivals comment is unfair. I'm not holding it against her, but this is about why Serena might not be getting the attention she deserves. I'm saying that she (and the sport) might get more attention if there was a big rivalry these days. Â I don't think it's a race debate. I think it's more of a gender debate. People talked about Tiger and Lebron chasing titles for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Go to just about any sports news website and how many articles/headlines are about women's sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2015/01/most-watched-sporting-events-2014-nfl-super-bowl-world-cup-olympics-bcs-nba-finals-world-series/  0 tennis in top 50 most watched sporting events of 2014. 0 tennis in top 50 most watched sporting events of 2014 - EXCLUDING NFL and olympics (but there's some FIFA and horse racing in that list... and the masters for golf.)  Most watched events by sport - Oh hey, there's women's tennis. Right below the Indy 500. 2.9 rating, 4.5 million viewers. The only sports it beat out: womens college basketball, MMA, mens tennis, womens golf, and the WNBA.  Looks tremendously popular to me.  You know what else is not in the top 50? NBA, NHL, any regular season college football game, and pretty much everything that is not the NFL and the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You know what else is not in the top 50? NBA, NHL, any regular season college football game, and pretty much everything that is not the NFL and the Olympics.  Right, but they're all in the top 50 excluding NFL and Olympics.  There's a reason they made that second category I mentioned  Womens Tennis is only above a few other sports that I would also consider not very popular - womens college basket ball, mens tennis, WNBA, and MMA.  MMA actually surprised me, I would have thought it had more popularity than that right now. It's not a big surprise, just a little.  Maybe you should click the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Are we pretending that women's tennis hasn't been a tremendously popular sport since the 70s? Because that's weird. Agreed. Honestly there was a time where I viewed womens tennis as more entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 By the way, what has absolutely killed Tennis in the US is the fact that nobody watches the men's game. Like at all. Â It's sort of staggering what has happened there. Â Women's tennis has always been popular, but the men's side was defintely more popular in the heyday of McEnroe, Borg, Conners, etc. It's amazing that the women's side draws at all compared to what happened to it's men's counterpoint. Â I'm probably not going too far out on a limb, but Serena's issue is not the lack of a rival, but the fact there has not been a top flight American men's player since Sampras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 We have rules for women athletes to be popular, rules that do not apply to male athletes.  They need to be beautiful, they need to be slim/feminine, and they need to be humble, or else we won't like them.  Serena is beautiful, but not in a way that most Americans can relate to.  Too black, too big.  She is muscular, not slim and delicate.  Too threatening.  She is perceived as brash and arrogant, even though almost all anyone can recall her ever saying or doing happened over a decade ago.   Three strikes, you're out.  Meanwhile, if Sam Williams came along, big, black, muscular, brash, not particularly good looking, and dominated men's tennis for a decade, the chants of U-S-A, U-S-A would be raising the roof at every match he played.  We would be behind him 100 percent.   But Serena?  "Nah - I like that hot chick from Russia, what's her name?  Oh yeah, Sharapova.  And Ivanovic - she's a babe too.  Remember Anna Kournikova?  Whoo-weee!!!'   Race is a part of it, but I really don't think it is a racial thing alone.  I suspect that if Lindsey Davenport had dominated tennis for a decade, no one would give her the credit either.  Martina Navratolova never got the full credit, because of her appearance and playing style.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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