twa Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 LKB, indeed deals are still made on the golf course. what transpires between you and your caddy should remain private. but yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 what transpires between you and your caddy should remain private. but yeah I'm scouting out the cougars...I have no idea what you are doing out there sir. haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I suspect she and many of her female and male counterparts may be on PEDs. Her ass might be on PED's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Her ass might be on PED's.Id love to find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 My interest in men's tennis has fallen in direct proportion to racket technology. There is nothing interesting about a 130 mph serve, return, then volley for winner. Nothing. Men's tennis sucks ass. Probably the worst sport out there right now. Yep. Watching men's tennis is about as interesting as watching bowling now. Without different styles of play, it's just like watching Pong on a black and white tv. I 100% disagree. The game itself is so much more fascinating than it was during the serve and volley era. Vastly better athletes are more fun to watch. The baseline game is more fun to watch. Incredible shot-making is spectacularly fun to watch. And the sport currently has several great and worthy champions, all of whom are classy, likeable, and thrilling to root for. The problem of declining American interest in the sport is that none of the best players are American any more. It's as simple and stupid as that. Americans have never actually been aficionados and devotees of the sport. We just liked watching American players compete and win. There was a jingoistic/nationalistic element to it that used to be compelling and fun. The women's game is the one that's boring. It's slower and much less competitive. Women's tennis probably gets more attention in this country than any other women's sport except these most recent USWNT teams for soccer. But that just means the sport receives marginal attention as opposed to none. And the ONLY reason for this is because so many of the players are good looking. Men watch sports and, by and large, men don't care about women's sports unless the athletes are hot. And even then, they don't truly care about the sport or respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Also youth participation in the sport at an organized level has never been great outside a few hotbed areas in the country. That's why the nationalistic element was needed to compel public interest in the first place. It's the nature of the sport itself that participation is so much lesser than other sports. Two to four players take up an entire court. Six to twelve players constitute everyone that actually gets to play for a high school. That's as opposed to 10 to 22 at a time for team sports and rosters of 15, 20, 30 kids. Or bigger in the case of football. There are also a couple of youth baseball, basketball, and soccer leagues in every podunk town in America. Almost the case for football too. You can go to the most hick county in Virginia and find a park with several terrifically maintained baseball fields. You're not going anything like that for tennis in that same hick county. You might find a couple of run down public courts or a handful of nice courts at the local college. And there will be no organized competitions or formalized teaching of the game outside a few short youth camps in the summer. It'll be all casual players never really learning or mastering the game and then like five kids from tennis families that are actually serious about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The problem of declining American interest in the sport is that none of the best players are American any more. It's as simple and stupid as that. Americans have never actually been aficionados and devotees of the sport. We just liked watching American players compete and win. There was a jingoistic/nationalistic element to it that used to be compelling and fun. I disagree. I watched tennis, bowling, even skiing on tv in the 70's and early 80's because there wasn't anything else on tv. Now I have a choice, I can watch the Wizards game or tennis, the Caps game or bowling, NASCAR or skiing. The buffet of sports we have on tv allows people to watch what they want, whenever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The problem of declining American interest in the sport is that none of the best players are American any more. It's as simple and stupid as that. Americans have never actually been aficionados and devotees of the sport. We just liked watching American players compete and win. There was a jingoistic/nationalistic element to it that used to be compelling and fun.yeah, this is probably true. it was fun to watch because American players were the best. (Personally, I am an actual fan of the game) I disagree. I watched tennis, bowling, even skiing on tv in the 70's and early 80's because there wasn't anything else on tv. Now I have a choice, I can watch the Wizards game or tennis, the Caps game or bowling, NASCAR or skiing. The buffet of sports we have on tv allows people to watch what they want, whenever they want.if we had a dominant American male tennis player, people would def watch and it would get more interest. Thats just how we are as a country. We care about the NFL first, college football second, then MLB, then NBA, college bball in March. That is all. After that, everything else is fringe. WE need a story to make us watch. (we as in all Americans) Its why the Olympics are so popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I disagree. I watched tennis, bowling, even skiing on tv in the 70's and early 80's because there wasn't anything else on tv. Now I have a choice, I can watch the Wizards game or tennis, the Caps game or bowling, NASCAR or skiing. The buffet of sports we have on tv allows people to watch what they want, whenever they want. Yeah that's probably a big factor. The effect of the fragmentation of media has been a kind of culture-wide diffusion in interest. I'd say most things are left with just the hardcore fans. Except the NFL. Kind of amazing how the NFL has become and remained such a cultural touchstone, though it's been to the detriment of the quality of the sport IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 yeah, this is probably true. it was fun to watch because American players were the best. (Personally, I am an actual fan of the game) if we had a dominant American male tennis player, people would def watch and it would get more interest. Thats just how we are as a country. We care about the NFL first, college football second, then MLB, then NBA, college bball in March. That is all. After that, everything else is fringe. WE need a story to make us watch. (we as in all Americans) Its why the Olympics are so popular. American interest in sports has really evolved over the past, what, 60 years we've had nationally televised events? I remember when boxing used to be very popular. Storylines revolving around compelling American champions are what can draw in the casual fan. Or doing whatever it is the NFL has managed to do. Making it a "water cooler" event that becomes a common cultural currency anyone can carry on a conversation with a stranger about. But I think the bedrock for general interest it is really participation in organized competition at the youth level. That's how you get people to really learn and care about the games. That and the sport has to be dramatically presented and truly competitive so that the struggle to win feels real. Off topic, but that's why I can see Soccer really making a rise in popularity in the U.S. in the next 30 years or so. First off it's dramatic and highly competitive. Second it's multi-cultural and cosmopolitan, which attracts a younger generation of sports fan that might be turned off by old school jockishness in our native games. But mainly it's got massive participation at the youth level so Americans have a good foundation for understanding the game itself. Once we get a world class league that is convenient to follow we will learn the pro game too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Agree. There was a time when Baseball and Boxing dominated all other sports as far as interest goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 There are also fewer opportunities to watch live matches. The US Open I went to a few years ago was so much fun. Everybody says this, but it really is insane how hard they're hitting and how quickly the ball's moving. You can walk up to the show courts and stand 10 feet away for a doubles match that nobody cares about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 That does sound awesome. I wish there were more frequent and accessible tournaments too. Tennis is a pretty solid TV sport but I think you're right that it majorly benefits from seeing up close in person. You're right that it's really hard to get a feel for speed over the TV and that's a big part of the excitement. At least you actually can get a good feel for the emotion of the competitors from TV. That's another big part of the excitement. At least for me. Gives it that kind of dramatic dynamic that boxing has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Agree. There was a time when Baseball and Boxing dominated all other sports as far as interest goes. And Horse Racing. Those were the bog three. Nothing else was even on the radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 And Horse Racing. Those were the bog three. Nothing else was even on the radar. Yep. Forgot about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinswillwin06 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 My interest in men's tennis has fallen in direct proportion to racket technology. There is nothing interesting about a 130 mph serve, return, then volley for winner. Nothing. Men's tennis sucks ass. Probably the worst sport out there right now. Men's tennis hasn't been like this for ten years (John Isner and Ivo Karlovic excluded). I could see how early round play in a major could be boring, but have you watched anywhere from the round of 16 on in a major recently? The rallies and shot making are incredible. The game has changed tremendously in a short amount of time. I find your comment about "The worst sport out there" laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Yeah I feel like interest in horse racing isn't what it used to be. Seems like people don't gamble in the ways they used to and that kind of takes the wind out of the sails for horse racing. The Triple Crown still has a place in the public eye though, like March Madness does. I don't know anything about horses and it's still fun for me and it's always been a good excuse to party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I have to agree with Steve and disagree with everyone saying that men's tennis is boring because of the serve. I think many of you guys haven't really watched in about ten years (or perhaps no one outside Andy Roddick and John Isner, Americans who fit your description). For me, the women's game is incredibly boring because of the technology. These ladies are able to hit the ball well over 110 mph on their serves, and many groundstrokes get up over 90 mph or even into triple digits. Unfortunately, the women don't have the stride length nor overall speed to actually chase these shots down. Every point feels like it lasts less than 4 shots, because one of them will go for a winner at the first chance they get, regardless of percentages. To me, every women's match is the same, regardless of who is playing. The winner will be whichever woman is able to hit it harder and faster earlier in the rallies without making more errors than winners. And the top women never get beat, they only lose when they beat themselves. On the flip side, to me, the mens game is so much more engaging because the points last multiple shots. Guys like Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, and recently Wawrinka and a few others have changed the mens game by being athletic enough to chase those crazy powerful shots down. The result is many, many points that go well over ten shots at a VERY high level. Hell, two US opens ago Nadal and Djokovic played an epic match where neither could out hit the other. MANY points went well over ten shots as neither was able to move the other off of the baseline or create enough angle to hit winners. It isn't that they don't hit hard enough. It's that they move so, so, so damn well. And they can burn you on a pass from just about anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 so... requiring bamboo racquets would: help? or hurt? the game??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. yes, they are incredible athletes, but rallies where they just move back and forth on the baseline hitting harder and harder are not interesting to me. "MANY points went well over ten shots as neither was able to move the other off of the baseline or create enough angle to hit winners. It isn't that they don't hit hard enough. It's that they move so, so, so damn well. And they can burn you on a pass from just about anywhere." That's exactly the problem. It's why there is only one way to play anymore. And it become 5 hours of the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinswillwin06 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. yes, they are incredible athletes, but rallies where they just move back and forth on the baseline hitting harder and harder are not interesting to me. "MANY points went well over ten shots as neither was able to move the other off of the baseline or create enough angle to hit winners. It isn't that they don't hit hard enough. It's that they move so, so, so damn well. And they can burn you on a pass from just about anywhere." That's exactly the problem. It's why there is only one way to play anymore. And it become 5 hours of the same thing. So... You do want to watch a serve, return and volley? That's the way it used to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. yes, they are incredible athletes, but rallies where they just move back and forth on the baseline hitting harder and harder are not interesting to me. "MANY points went well over ten shots as neither was able to move the other off of the baseline or create enough angle to hit winners. It isn't that they don't hit hard enough. It's that they move so, so, so damn well. And they can burn you on a pass from just about anywhere." That's exactly the problem. It's why there is only one way to play anymore. And it become 5 hours of the same thing. Hmm. I won't disagree that the serve and volley style of play has been hurt by these changes. But I think Murray (with Lendl coaching) showed that being aggressive at the net still has a strong place in men's tennis. You just have to be that much better about your construction of the point to get there. Good players are able to construct points that earn them volleys. But good players are also able to hit crazy passes that make mediocre approaches pay. For me, the result is more all around good tennis. I don't mind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 That does sound awesome. I wish there were more frequent and accessible tournaments too. Tennis is a pretty solid TV sport but I think you're right that it majorly benefits from seeing up close in person. You're right that it's really hard to get a feel for speed over the TV and that's a big part of the excitement. At least you actually can get a good feel for the emotion of the competitors from TV. That's another big part of the excitement. At least for me. Gives it that kind of dramatic dynamic that boxing has. Definitely check it out if you ever get the chance. I like Federer and want to go to the Open this year, as I don't know how many more he'll be around for. Agreed on the emotion - though I like Fed, I'm not sure I've ever felt worse for an athlete than I felt for Andy Roddick when he lost 18-16 in the 5th set at the Wimbledon final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Yet the NFL game has changed in many ways... Hmm. I like tennis, certainly not for the daily watching same as many other games or sports for me. That does not diminish the talent that it takes for these folks to go out and perform accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 So... You do want to watch a serve, return and volley? That's the way it used to be I want to watch players with different styles compete. Borg and McEnroe and Lendl and Connors and Becker and Sampras and Edberg played differing styles. I liked pure baseliners like Andre Aggasi too - as long as they were just one of the available flavors. Now the top players are all robots who play exactly the same way. Djokovich or Nadal or even Federer - who cares? They all just grind you down from the baseline until someone makes a mistake or gets a corner angle. Sometimes it takes 25 shots before it happens. Still boring. and get off my lawn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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