TradeTheBeal! Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Fed just lacks the KO punch at this age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 GHH, just curious how hot and humid it is over there right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 GHH, just curious how hot and humid it is over there right now? Around 22 C in London right now/ 72 F. Pretty cool so the humidity will be low. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Djokovic will probably win, but his family shouldn't have started busting out the champagne just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I would love to see 5 sets but The Joker is just too good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I believe it is equal. ..... Is that across the board? I know Wimbledon has come into line but does that run through the other 3? Heck of a high level the 4th set. Congratulations Novak on retaining. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Is that across the board? I know Wimbledon has come into line but does that run through the other 3? Heck of a high level the 4th set. Congratulations Novak on retaining. Hail. At the French and US Open it's equal as well. Not sure about Aussie Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 Is that across the board? I know Wimbledon has come into line but does that run through the other 3? Heck of a high level the 4th set. Congratulations Novak on retaining. Hail. Not sure. I just remember Venus being really outspoken about it and Wimbledon deciding to give men and women equal pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Djokovic is one the rare athletes I've seen who turned a mental/physical weakness into a strength. In an era dominated by 2 all-time greats in Federer & Nadal, Djokovic shoehorned his way into the mix and carved out a damn good legacy of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Djokovic is one the rare athletes I've seen who turned a mental/physical weakness into a strength. In an era dominated by 2 all-time greats in Federer & Nadal, Djokovic shoehorned his way into the mix and carved out a damn good legacy of his own. Don't forget Murray. Never has there been an era of such ridiculously high consistency of the 4 top men. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Don't forget Murray. Never has there been an era of such ridiculously high consistency of the 4 top men. Hail. And now Stan Wawrinka seems to have put his game together and is a threat at every major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Serena really need Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters to keep playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Serena really need Justine Henin and Kim Clijsters to keep playing. Serena also has focused on the majors. She has not won anything like the number of other tournaments as the other greats like Navratilova, Graf, Evert etc. For some that's a significant deficiency for the GOAT tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I think it's near impossible to determine GOAT amongst the greatest in a sport. Different eras are so tough to judge. Serena is certainly amongst the best ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I think it's near impossible to determine GOAT amongst the greatest in a sport. Different eras are so tough to judge. Serena is certainly amongst the best ever. Yeah, there was a time when Martina was untouchable. They pretended that Chris Evert was her challenger, but she really wasn't. They'd meet up in the finals a lot, but Chrissie always got stomped. Same with Steffi Graf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I had to look that up. Evert was 37-43 lifetime vs Martina and she own Martina on clay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I had to look that up. Evert was 37-43 lifetime vs Martina and she own Martina on clay. Boy, speaks to the validity of memory lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Yeah, there was a time when Martina was untouchable. They pretended that Chris Evert was her challenger, but she really wasn't. They'd meet up in the finals a lot, but Chrissie always got stomped. Same with Steffi Graf. I remember it this way, too, so I looked it up to see why we both had the same impression. And if you cherry pick the data, you come up with an era - from 1978 to 1984, when Chris and Martina met in Grand Slam finals 9 times. In those matches, on the biggest stages, Martina went 8 -1 against Chrissy. And from '78 to '85, she went 10 -2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 How many GS titles might Seles had won if not for being attacked on the court? In 91, she won 3 GS, in 92 she won 3 out of 4 again while losing in the Wimbledon finals. In 93 she won her third straight Aussie and before the chance to go for 4 straight at the French is when the attack happened. Finished with 9. I'm not taking anything away from Serena, I'm just saying it's hard to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 If Seles doesn't get stabbed, Serena would already have the GS record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If Seles doesn't get stabbed, Serena would already have the GS record. If Seles doesn't get stabbed, Serena might be behind Seles still. She was dominating when it happened. She plays uninterrupted another 7 years and she is over 20 majors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Seles was on top, but Graf would have won some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Never liked Monica since the Nationality change. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Never liked Monica since the Nationality change. Hail. She's also the player who took the shrieking and grunting to the next level, thus ushering in the era of watching women's tennis with the sound turned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco Bell Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 note - I'm buying in to what GHH/DM72 are selling that this is "the thread" to talk about all tennis until the next grand slam shows up (hopefully sooner, I love talking tennis too) I've followed tennis since the start of the federer era, early 2000s I guess when I was in high school... The player I remember at #1 was Lleyton Hewitt when I really started following it, Sampras had just won the US open and I assume he retired without doing too much research (can't tell if he made mini comeback and what not). Luckily, a player came along that both me and my dad enjoyed watching - nadal. He obviously had the physicality and style of play that made him "unique" in his own way and was great from the very start (it truly seems like if a player is going to be great in tennis they have to show something no later than 22-23 - sucks but it is what it is). So, much like football, I root for Nadal first, and then trickle down who I root for based on what benefits Nadal long term the most. Example - yesterday's match I'd ideally want both players to have driven off a cliff, lol, but as such I needed Djoke to win because Fed gaining another would have been backbreaking for Nadal, if he ever is capable of catching up (which looks highly unlikely at this point but what else can I do but root for it). Although Fed in his own way winning at 33 would give hope for Nadal to "regain" something despite their playing styles being entirely different (nadal's being flawed with slightly diminished athleticism and needs to make a change fast). Djoke on his own looks like he could easily surpass Nadal within the next 2-3 years, so him gaining another one is backbreaking in it's own way. Wawrinka and Murray are the people I essentially have to root for these days. Murray seems like a less fanatical Djokovic so will probably always be his inferior from this point going forward, and Wawrinka is even older than Nadal but was a late bloomer so seems to have more in the tank at this juncture. Wawrinka is also extremely enjoyable to watch when he's on however. ------------------- In terms of the OP, I think there is a difference (although through overall perception they end up meshing together in certain areas) between "credit" and "adulation." I hear nothing but "credit" when people discuss her accomplishments, but she doesn't get too much adulation (a common thread through many female sports obviously). When the question has come up in the last year or so, obviously approaching key records and still winning grand slams, I have heard almost 0% of people short change her in terms of her place of the all time greats. This is no Lebron vs Jordan debate, she through both accomplishment and future trajectory has always been placed in the top 3 at worst and often enough as #1 already despite not surpassing specific records quite yet (in recent discussion through print, internet, tv, etc). Based on what I've seen. But, no, she certainly doesn't get the "adulation" she might deserve. I think there are a few reasons for it obviously. The first one is obviously her race/looks/etc. Second is demeanor. Third is tennis-wide for females. And there are additional reasons I'm sure. First one I could talk about for days, both because I feel like I can handle that discussion on a MB and because it is a pertinent part of this "real" discussion on Serena. But I'll do my best to keep it short. Yes, I'm sure there is an overall layer of less adulation for her because she is not your typical tennis hot girl. Then there are the people that cross the line like the recent twitter guy who got called out by JK Rowling, that type of stuff which you see everywhere but now in our social media world will get called out more often. Then there is the perception that she "has it easy" based on her obvious strength and athleticism (the combination of "looking" the part as well as executing it). So, when it comes to adulation from the mass population, yes, there isn't enough relative to her accomplishments, not yet at least. From an overall standpoint, I think her demeanor detracts from the adulation she could deserve. See, I think people in the tennis world love her, she really does get proper/exceeding fandom in tournaments by the people that truly love tennis both by analysts/players as well as tennis fans that pay to see tourney's and fans beyond my basic level (because I do watch main tourneys and other 1000 level tourneys) that are more knowledgeable of the game (I play occasionally but am terrible like soft lob serves and half my volleys go out by 10 feet type thing). But, she does do things that rub people the wrong way. Things like making sure the public knows she's sick with the flu or a cold yet is still winning. Her point to point demeanor can sometimes rub people the wrong way. Or, not shaking hands at the end of matches, etc etc etc. She has done things to work against her in the demeanor department. Nothing legendary or gamebreaking, but there is history there of it. Also, even recently at the FO she did something that most male counterparts have notably done in this recent era especially, giving points to opposing players during grey areas in a match. I understand that it wasn't illegal or whatever, but sportsmanship is not something that Serena is the sterling gold standard of for whom you are looking to bestow adulation upon. This then trickles to the third part which is tennis wide for all female players I think (which kind of bleeds into all solo sports disregarding gender). I don't think any female player, at least in this current era, is really "universally" beloved anyway. Every player seems to have haters to varying degrees for "any" reason, so Serena doesn't really seem unique in that regard. Azarenka has haters, Sharapova, Wozniacki, everyone. I mean, even golf is like that, Tiger in some ways was unique in that he probably was the first player ever to actually own a majority of an entire sports fanbase going into key tourneys. People hate Spieth already, people hate McIlroy, etc etc etc. Maybe someone like Nicklaus way before my time had that, but owning 60% of all fan's rooting interest in a sport is probably rare. So, Williams only receiving adulation from a minority of fans is really in line with all sports. Like, only 5-10% of fans are going to be happy the Patriots win a SB type thing. So yea, many reasons why Serena's accomplishments are not universally revered and I'm sure tons more, but when the actual question pops up, the answer is usually very accurate and fair since she's almost always considered 1/2 with the very close precipice of becoming 1, and 3 at absolute worst but still on the precipice of gaining. To me, this question is intentionally being asked 2 majors too soon just for the discussion, once she passes Graf it will be just about universal, if/when she gets past 24 then it will just be automatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.