SkinsFTW Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Parcells probably would have turned down that train wreck with the salary cap problems and almost 0 young talent left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Parcells probably would have turned down that train wreck with the salary cap problems and almost 0 young talent left. He took over a train wreck in the NE patriots. He would have been fine. Parcells in my opinion is the best coach I have ever seen at turning a franchise around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I can tell you this much. Free agency ruined the redskins.And some will argue the NFL. We use to draft guys and sit them until they were ready to go.Now we draft guys and expect them to be ready from day one.yeah. Exactly. Football was better. Some teams had tons of talent that never left their team. If a city couldn't fund a winner, they lost. Now we pay for second rate teams rosters and players switch teams left and right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Richie Petitbon is remembered for a bad season as head coach, but should be remember for his great super bowl winning defenses. Also, he was a four time pro bowl safety AND he played for George Allen on the 1971 Redskins Super Bowl team. I just loved the guy and wish we had more like him. One thing that gets lost in today's game is that he shared DC duties with Larry Peccatiello for most of that time period. And it wasn't weird or a conspiracy theory, or a battle for power. They both just coached up the d. It is kind of difficult to picture Petitbon as a safety, being he had more of a Santa Claus figure in his coaching days. but, the guy knew how to scheme, no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The only years I remember are the Turner years. When Gibbs won his first two Super Bowls I was too young to appreciate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Thank you OP for starting this thread. It has been interesting reading what people remember and comparing it to reality. I don't mean that to be judgmental, but we all have a tendency to remember what we want to, especially as time goes by. Most of the errors have been corrected, like the only coaches between Lombardi and Turner were Gibbs and Allen (Austin - disaster, had no clue, Pardee - owner of the season we started 7-3 and missed the playoffs after running John Riggins back to Kansas, and lastly Petibone - defensive genius left with a horrible team and given no help by Casserly.) Another - We were in very close games in the 0-5 run with Gibbs. Not even close. We were getting mostly blown out, down by several TDs by half or the 4th. If you read his autobiography (the 1st) Gibbs was called to JKC's office after 0-5 and was certain he would get fired. Instead Mr. Cooke just looked at him and said "You broke it, you get this thing fixed, do you understand?" He simply said yes sir Mr. Cooke and decided to drop the pass happy Off he learned from Air Coryell and go to a run first and defense team. The error that was not dispelled was "Joe Gibbs had a strong track record." Gibbs was back with Air Coryell after a disastrous run as OC in TB. He was literally run out on a rail. He was Rbs coach in St Louis, then went to TB to work for John McKay who he had worked with at USC. But it did not work out at all. Then he went to San Diego to again work with Air Coryell. He was not really on anyone's radar as HC except for Bobby B. He had to convince Mr. Cooke to even talk to him. Once he did, Joe won him over, but it was not easy and he was not who Mr. Cooke really wanted. BB was taking al ot of heat for hiring Gibbs. Had there been the Internet at the time, the blogs would have been lit up with "only 3 yrs as NFL OC, 1 a disaster, the other carrying the clip board for Don Coryell (not saying I agree with this, but it's what would have been said.). How can we even think of him as Head Coach? Zero experience? he was just a RBs coach 4 yrs ago! This guy is only 40!! What is Beathard thinking?? Anyway, the rest is of course history. I only put this down to make the point that all the people that are extremely worried about the Joe Barry hire have a very good chance of being pleasantly surprised, especially when you throw him in with the several other really good choices. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I remember thinking Hiring your rival's coach to be headcoach just neer felt righ.t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissident2 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Interesting topic, and I'll shed my 2 pents, as I sort of remember the latter part of the Allen years and the first season I remember the whole way through was Pardee's in 1978. I think those Pardee teams aren't talked about enough. Not because they were great, but because they were interesting. Those first two years under Pardee, 78-79, the team showed tons of potential only to eventually and in epic fashion blow it when everything was on the line. It was INCREDIBLY frustrating. For example, in '78 the Skins started out 6-0, including an INCREDIBLE win against Dallas on MNF that remains one of my Holy Grail games to obtain on video. (Anyone out there know if this exists? I have yet to be able to find it.) My dad let me stay up for the whole game. It was such a special night, ending with Theismann taunting the Cowboys by taking a safety. But after the 6-0 start, they collapsed, finishing the season 8-8 and missing the playoffs after a terrible loss in Atlanta where the Atlanta kicker missed a game winning field goal, only to get another chance because of a Redskins penalty. Field goal was made, any postseason hopes were over. In '79, the team came out VERY strong. They looked like world beaters at times, including a game where they destroyed Dallas at RFK 34-20 or something. Then, last game of the season, everything on the line, in Dallas, one of the greatest games in NFL history probably (unless you're a Skins fan), and the Cowboys win 35-34, knocking us out. Much of that loss rests on Pardee and his tendency to get WAY too conservative with a lead. He did that in Dallas up 34-21 late, and the Cowboys took advantage. So after that season, Pardee wasn't going to get fired, but fans were VERY restless with this. (Can you imagine NOW? We'd kill to be in the hunt every year). His fate was sealed in 1980 when he went 6-10, despite a final run of a few consecutive victories. There was actually PLENTY of talk back then about bringing Allen back. In fact, Cooke was supposedly considering it seriously. But he had the same issues as Pardee in a way ... able to get us to the water, never able to get the drink. So yeah, it was a shock to see Gibbs hired, simply because no one knew who he was. But in a way, I think many fans were ready for something brand new. Pardee had been one of Allen's players after all, and his philosophies weren't that different. To finally have an offensive-minded coach was actually well-received by some. Those first five games, though, were brutal. I remember being on a church walkathon when we played the niners at home. I was listening to the game on a walkman. Nothing like walking 10 miles while listening to your team get destroyed. A lot of the problem back then as I recall was a tendency to turn the ball over often, as well as a VERY young o-line that was just learning the ropes. I'd agree with the above assessment that the games weren't really close, but I will say that the offense at times looked lethal. We could move the ball, but the defense was bad, turnovers were everywhere, and you could tell that Gibbs hadn't really figured out yet what he wanted to do. But it DID seem to me immediately to be a well-run team, and there was a tremendous spark and energy about the team that hadn't been seen in a long time. Redskins teams NEVER scored tons of points and moved the ball downfield so well before under Allen and Pardee. I remember in particular a great game against the Cardinals that ended with the Cards winning 40-30, but MAN, that was a fun game to watch. Theismann was on fire to Monk all day. But the defense was getting shredded. When we finally beat the Bears in game 6, everything started clicking for that team very, very quickly. By the end of the season, we were 8-8 again, but you just KNEW there was something good coming, as the team was starting to really find itself and really dominate other teams. Was so great to really be coming into my own fandom just when Gibbs and the Skins were settling in for a decade of brilliance. I feel so bad for those who have never experienced long periods of winning and respect. It wasn't until Norv took over that I even knew what a completely pathetic team looked like every week. Losing seasons for the Skins up until that point for me were very rare, just blips in their history. Now it's the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningBuggs Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 My only addition to this thread is that I am right now watching Super Bowl 17 as I type this. What a great year that was. Much like in dating, you never forget your first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 My only addition to this thread is that I am right now watching Super Bowl 17 as I type this. What a great year that was. Much like in dating, you never forget your first one. I recently watched all 3 winning SBs just to remember what it was like to expect to win games. I agree re: your first. But also indelibly inked into memory is 35 pts in 18 plays. Just simply amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worstSeat Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Thank you OP for starting this thread. It has been interesting reading what people remember and comparing it to reality. I don't mean that to be judgmental, but we all have a tendency to remember what we want to, especially as time goes by. Most of the errors have been corrected, like the only coaches between Lombardi and Turner were Gibbs and Allen (Austin - disaster, had no clue, Pardee - owner of the season we started 7-3 and missed the playoffs after running John Riggins back to Kansas, and lastly Petibone - defensive genius left with a horrible team and given no help by Casserly.) Yeah, I accidentally left Pardee off, but didn't mean to. He was, afaict, a competent coach, and I meant to lump him in there. The rest I named. So between Lombardi and Turner, you only had three that lasted more than a season -- Allen, Pardee, and Gibbs. That's really a good run. I'd throw pre-Snyder Norv in there too. I didn't feel the team was out of control until Jeff George got signed, and that wasn't Norv's fault. Not having decent to great coaches is a relatively new thing, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 80s-early 90s redskins were awesome. The team was very well coached, they seemed to catch breaks like they were Blessed. Our guys were good guys who you liked and could root for. I saw two superbowls and we had a very good run game backed up with a very deep ball set up with playaction. They were one of the best teams in the league and not sort of the laughing stock of the NFL. Teams didn't want to play us, we broke teams with our running game. We would just call the same plays in a row and the RB and Line were so good they would gash the other team it was humiliating for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 bumping an old thread, i was 11 when the 91 redskins happened, and i was well aware of the run and how great they were, but you don't really understand the ins and outs of the NFL basically, i've been thinking about richie petitbon (your redskins mind starts to wander when you have a meaningless regular season game on the horizon because playoffs are clinched up) and i remembered our defenses just killing people in those days (what was it 3 straight home shutouts in 1991 - unreal!!!) anyways, after gibbs retired, petitbon takes over the team and doesn't have a great year going 4-12 and is immediately fired and replaced by of all people, a freaking Cowboy my question is, should petitbon have been fired? what would ES in 1993 have said? did the defense at least look good, or were we just killed all around? my dad thought he should have been given more time, but i've also heard that he didn't look like he knew what he was doing on the sidelines. it seems like someone with that much playing and D-Coordinating experience would know what they are doing it was also around that time that we got rid of gary clark and art monk, not 100% sure where it happened on the timeline, but my dad thought that was losing part of the soul of the redskins any insights appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 my question is, should petitbon have been fired? what would ES in 1993 have said? did the defense at least look good, or were we just killed all around? The Pro Football Reference recap of that season pretty much sums it up. After the great run of Gibbs (and perhaps going back if you want to count the Allen-Pardee 1970s), 1993 was a big kick in the you-know-whats. And we had to endure two bye weeks, although, truth be told, the bye weeks may have been preferable to watching the games that season: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/1993.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 It was a new era of Free Agency. The 1991 team was awesome, but a bunch of guys were getting close to the end of their careers. I don't think the problem was firing Ritchie. It was hiring Norv and Drafting Shuler. Casserly, has had a few top picks over the years on QBs and none have panned out. (Shuler, Carr)... Casserly was never a good GM. Norv and Casserly were not really going to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo'sRangers Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I'm old and have much perspective to offer, as I saw it. A fan since '69 and, of course, saw our first SB defeat vs the Dolphins. The key (beyond coaching) has always been the draft with one huge exception, Joe Gibbs. Let's review: 79 draft: Don Warren, Rich Milot, Monte Coleman 80 draft: Art Monk 81 draft: Mark May, Russ Grimm, Dexter Manley, Charlie Brown, Darryl Grant, Clint Didier, Joe Jacoby-undrafted Free Agent-signed by the Redskins, Joe Gibbs becomes the coach of the Redskins. (almost an unfair advantage, in every way, to the whole NFL) 82 draft: Vernon Dean, at best 83 draft: Darrell Green, Charles Mann, Kelvin Bryant 84 draft: Gary Clark (supplemental) 85 draft: Barry Wilburn, Terry Orr, Raleigh McKenze 86 draft: Alvin Walton, Raven Caldwell, Mark Rypen, Kurt Gouveia, 87-Timmy Smith; 88-Chip Lohmiller; 89-Mark Schlereth; 90-Brian Mitchell Mix in John Riggins, Wilbur Marshall, and Jim Lachey (among others I'm sure) as free agents..... It's clear to me it is ALL about drafting & coaching. I do not think it is a coincidence that we had an unbelievable '81 draft, and a new (then) future HOF coach. A perfect storm. Good players and drafting are a huge deal. Especially now as the margin for error is so tight. Remember the we had no salary cap then, and could "buy" whoever we wanted. It makes the draft, free agency, and coaching all the more important in today's NFL. Just my opinion from all these years. Hail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 I liked Pardee, but that awful loss to Dallas at the end of the 1979 season crushed the team's spirit for 1980 and Riggins took the year off as well (as a result of the Dallas loss). Had we won that game, we would have been 11-5, won the division, contended for the SB, and Gibbs would never have been hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 It was always brought up about how Gibbs would spend the night at Redskins Park, working on schemes etc, and he put his heart and soul into it, and it paid off far more times than not. But to me, Gibbs left not from burn-out, but from what the league was turning into. The NFL was a business, and they wanted to start operating like one. Gibbs didn't want to go through the pains of getting the 'gems in the rough' and training/coaching them into great players, only to have them turn their backs on the organization when the smell of money was stronger elsewhere; ****, I wouldn't want it either. So he walked away. I don't blame him one iota, why do all the hard work only to have someone else lure them away? The teams that were perennial winners/SB champions back then started dropping off when Plan B kicked into gear. It was a sure-fire way for the NFL to 'level the playing field'; sounds vaguely political to me. The teams who just happened to have up-n-coming players like Dallas and SF still had a few more years to ride the coattails of the players they had, but eventually succumbed to the inevitable. Yeppers, the 80's were abso-****ing-lutely great, and the Redskins were a perennial powerhouse team with a future HOF coach, a kick-ass o-line, and Pettibon, with Beathard buying the groceries, and they would be heavily considered year in and out to be a contender, much like N.E. is today. So when someone tells me that money isn't everything, I just wince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I was 10-11 the last time I watched the Redskins and expected them to line up and win every game. Losing Gary Clark literally ripped my young soul out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoach22 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 bumping an old thread, i was 11 when the 91 redskins happened, and i was well aware of the run and how great they were, but you don't really understand the ins and outs of the NFL basically, i've been thinking about richie petitbon (your redskins mind starts to wander when you have a meaningless regular season game on the horizon because playoffs are clinched up) and i remembered our defenses just killing people in those days (what was it 3 straight home shutouts in 1991 - unreal!!!) anyways, after gibbs retired, petitbon takes over the team and doesn't have a great year going 4-12 and is immediately fired and replaced by of all people, a freaking Cowboy my question is, should petitbon have been fired? what would ES in 1993 have said? did the defense at least look good, or were we just killed all around? my dad thought he should have been given more time, but i've also heard that he didn't look like he knew what he was doing on the sidelines. it seems like someone with that much playing and D-Coordinating experience would know what they are doing it was also around that time that we got rid of gary clark and art monk, not 100% sure where it happened on the timeline, but my dad thought that was losing part of the soul of the redskins any insights appreciated!! It was a different time for both the league and the franchise. 4-12 was not something JKC could comprehend after Gibbs. Richie was a no brainer as a hire (having waited and paid his dues) and as a fire (some folks are just better #2s) that year. I remember CBS did a feature on him after the MNF win over Dallas to open the season. (He said "babe" a lot on the practice field). It was all downhill from there. Strangely as quick as the squire was to let Richie go, he expressed a lot of patience and confidence in old Norval. He wanted him to be the next Gibbs so badly. Hindsight is pretty funny at times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewmartin7776 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 This is a great thread - if only for the opportunity to think back so many years ago and remember what it was like to be at the top of the league year in and year out. There was an expectation to winning back then, compared to now where we just hope we don't get embarrassed too much. I was only 12 years old at the time, but I remember the 6-0 start under Pardee and reading an article in the Post about the team Joe Theisman (I think the title was "Shades of ole Number 9" comparing Joe to Sonny). I was disappointed by the collapse in the second half of the season. I also remember the great and terrible game that got away at the end of the 1979 season where we lost to Dallas at the very end. I watched that game at our church where a bunch of people got a big TV and set it up in the auditorium and about 1/4 of the whole church came out to watch it. It was devastating to lose that game. Although I'm sure I read a lot about it, I don't remember a lot about Gibbs' hiring. I do remember the end of the first season leaving us feeling very optimistic. I then remember the strike season of 1982 and although we started out very strong (save for the typical loss to Dallas), I was still not sold on the fact that we had turned a corner. During each playoff game, I had butterflies and was almost sure we would lose. By the time we got to the NFC championship game, I wanted Dallas too!!! That was one of my favorite Skins games of all time, because we finally beat THE team that had been a thorn in our side for so long - and because we were going to the Superbowl. Over the next 10 years, I had an expectation that we would always win. The one thing I do remember about those Redskins teams were that everyone (commentators, other coaches, etc) said Joe Gibbs always made sure his teams were prepared. It always showed. Fast forward to the one Pettibone year, I thought he would continue the glory, but his in ability to lead like Gibbs, the advent of free agency and the fact that our players were now getting old, it was was just frustrating. Every year was frustrating and I never thought Norv was someone who could field a good team. Then came 1999 and I thought - all he needed was a good quarterback. He had one in Brad Johnson. Even after that year, I thought we were in a good position with Brad, Stephen Davis, etc. But, then The Danny purchased the team and messed everything up (why did we need the team cancer Jeff George???). Brad left the team and I certainly don't blame him. Sad to see him win a Superbowl for another team. I won't recap the years since then - not even the Joe Gibbs years, although I think he erred in bringing in an offensive coordinator to call plays in 2006. I think we had built major momentum after 2005 and our team was starting to resemble Joe Gibbs teams of old. Fast forward to now. I always thought our best bet was to bring in a talented, proven offensive coordinator as a head coach - not a retread or unproven coach (Shanahan, Marty (although I liked Marty), Spurrier, Zorn, etc). The one thing I see now that is similar to when Gibbs was hired; you have a young and hungry coach who had success as a coordinator and you have a young and talented quarterback who can be an extension of what the coach wants to do on the field. This is a great opportunity for Gruden and Cousins and I think they are a perfect match. We've never really had that (first time coordinator turned coach partnered with QB we drafted) other than Norv and Shuler. Since Kirk feels he is just scratching the surface of what the team can do on offense, coupled with the fact that players like playing for Gruden and he seems to be able to motivate them to give great effort each week AND the fact that we have a very good GM, I think our team is set up to get close to - if not exactly replicate - the success we had number Gibbs 1.0. It's been a long journey, but it's great going into a game (i.e. Eagles) and really believing you're going to kick their butts. Have not experienced that since the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think it was in 88', when the Redskins got Wilbur Marshall from the Bears. He was getting an astounding 6 million dollars to play here and his nickname became the six million dollar man by the media. Everyone thought that was a huge contract, as I did, and immediately people referred to JKC as having deep pockets. 6 mil was a lot of money back then and many thought it was a huge gamble and a lot of money for 1 player. He did ok with the Skins IMO. I went back and looked a bit and found out he was the first player in 11 years to jump to another team and we had to give up quite a bit to get him via the draft. But watching him play, you would see WRs and TEs developing alligator arms and ducking to the ground when WM came at them, he was a feared player who hit hard. I'm not sure who really wanted him, whether it was Gibbs Pettibon or JKC himself, but he helped bring us SB XXVI home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoach22 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think it was in 88', when the Redskins got Wilbur Marshall from the Bears. He was getting an astounding 6 million dollars to play here and his nickname became the six million dollar man by the media. Everyone thought that was a huge contract, as I did, and immediately people referred to JKC as having deep pockets. 6 mil was a lot of money back then and many thought it was a huge gamble and a lot of money for 1 player. He did ok with the Skins IMO. I went back and looked a bit and found out he was the first player in 11 years to jump to another team and we had to give up quite a bit to get him via the draft. But watching him play, you would see WRs and TEs developing alligator arms and ducking to the ground when WM came at them, he was a feared player who hit hard. I'm not sure who really wanted him, whether it was Gibbs Pettibon or JKC himself, but he helped bring us SB XXVI home. Wilber Marshall was a stud and a big piece to the puzzle... So funny to look back at how rare that sort of money was and how rare a star jumping teams was in that era.The 91 team deserves more credit in history than it gets. (I was in 8th grade and wore one of about 50 Skins' shirts daily. I also had the Zubaz pants, man those were hideous looking). Three great WR, Byner with a hand from Riggs in the Jumbo package, Ryp putting it all together for one year, and then the underrated National Defense. Side note, I wrote Rypien after the SB and he wrote back a two page letter with two autographed photos. One of which was a family photo of Mark, Annette and the kids. That meant soooo much to me as a 13-year old diehard and was very cool of the SB MVP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 ^^ Angela Rypien turned into a hottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 ^^ Angela Rypien turned into a hottie. And can play! I clicked on this thread going, "Whhhuuut? Time warp?" Then pj summed it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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