SWFLSkins Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 This will be the first time in his pro carreer where he will be looking at the same playbook for the second year. I completly agree that if the competition is open he will win it..in camp. I dont even think it will be close. I don't see three in the OC, I see two, RGIII and Kirk. The other guy, whoever is there for scout team and receiver work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Oh, here is the comparison done by the guy who wrote that article: http://nflbreakdowns.com/redskins-qb-comparison-rg3-cousins-mccoy/4/ It's not scientific, it's just one guy's opinions -- but a guy who watched a lot of film. 1a. Short-Medium Accuracy 1. RG3 2. Colt McCoy 3. Kirk Cousins 1b. Deep Accuracy 1. Kirk Cousins 2. Colt McCoy 3. RG3 2. Vision and Decision-Making 1. Colt McCoy 2. Kirk Cousins 3. RG3 3. Pocket Presence 1. Colt McCoy 2. Kirk Cousins 3. RG3 4. Arm Strength 1. RG3 2. Kirk Cousins 3. Colt McCoy 5. Anticipation 1. Colt McCoy 2. Kirk Cousins 3. RG3 6. Mobility [he means mobility as a runner, obviously not mobility in the pocket to avoid sacks] 1. RG3 2. Colt McCoy 3. Kirk Cousins 7. Upside 1. RG3 2. Kirk Cousins 3. Colt McCoy I have to say, I think this is pretty damn accurate. The only thing I *might* change would be anticipation. I think Cousins is as good if not better than McCoy. But to be fair, sometimes his anticipation is wrong leading to INTs. But I do feel strongly that he throws on time with anticipation for what the receiver is about to do. I also think this breakdown says a lot about Gruden's QB decisions. RG3 SERIOUSLY struggled. Kirk put up points but threw too many INTs. Colt gave him a guy who might not light up the scoreboard but provided the stability needed to run the offense and at least cut down on the worst QB mistakes. At this stage, I'm not seeing any exciting FA QBs so I'm guessing we may spend a later round pick on a prospect and hope RG3 or Cousins really step up their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Tanget on Open Comp: Open comp will be interesting although its nearly impossible to have it with 3 QBs. Young QBs rarely have to 'win' their jobs because most journeyman can easily beat out a rookie or young QB even if the young QB is more talented. I would bet a healthy McCoy wins a true open competition. This offseason will be huge for Griffin in terms of closing the gap with Kirk as a rhythm drop back passer. I think Griff can beat Kirk out if he closes the gap in terms of experience in Jays style of offense. But even if Griffin wins the job imho we are still faced with an awkward dynamic with Jay. I think way too much is made of the whole "relationship" issue. If Griffin picks up his game and plays well there won't be an issue. If he still struggles to run a pro offense, the "relationship" will suffer. At this point I give Kirk a slight edge in "probability to improve" simply because Griffin has looked like a guy who doesn't exactly have a Payton Manning work ethic. I can't come to any other conclusion for a guy who in his third year struggled with how many steps to drop back or when to throw the ball away and avoid the sack. I'm sorry, but to me he looks like a guy who thinks his physical gifts are all he needs and that **** doesn't work for QBs. I hope I'm wrong because Robert *does* have the bigger upside. It's up to him whether he succeeds or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'd like to see the competition be between Robert and Kirk. Loser gets traded. You know what you have in Colt. A good guy still young enough to be around for a few years and yet veteran enough to come off the bench to get the team a few wins or at least be competitive if the starter is injured. Colt also has the weakest arm of the three and probably isn't too far from hitting his ceiling of potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'd like to see the competition be between Robert and Kirk. Loser gets traded. You know what you have in Colt. A good guy still young enough to be around for a few years and yet veteran enough to come off the bench to get the team a few wins or at least be competitive if the starter is injured. Or we could just trade one of them now instead of destroying any bit of value they have left when one of them loses a highly publicized QB battle... I don't even care which one anymore, just pick one and move on so we don't have to go through another season of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epochalypse Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Or we could just trade one of them now instead of destroying any bit of value they have left when one of them loses a highly publicized QB battle... I don't even care which one anymore, just pick one and move on so we don't have to go through another season of this. I would think it's worth the possible loss of some trade value for two QBs that may not have much at this point anyway to make sure you are picking the right QB going forward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I would think it's worth the possible loss of some trade value for two QBs that may not have much at this point anyway to make sure you are picking the right QB going forward... It's really not though. Kirk could probably fetch us a fourth and I'm certain we could get the same thing for Robert if not more. It does neither any good to remain on the same team and continue this same toxic working environment. Pick the one you want to move on with and deal the other. The team gets a draft pick and we rid ourselves of this distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 It's really not though. Kirk could probably fetch us a fourth and I'm certain we could get the same thing for Robert if not more. It does neither any good to remain on the same team and continue this same toxic working environment. Pick the one you want to move on with and deal the other. The team gets a draft pick and we rid ourselves of this distraction. Plus we could have lots of threads yelling, "see I told you we should have kept the other one, the one we kept sucks". That would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 This play more than any other simply terrifies me. The two deep receivers were not the only ones wide open. He had three check downs as open as anyone could ever hope to be as well. We gave three first round picks for this guy. How is this not some form of completion? Redskins QB Comparison: RG3 vs Cousins vs McCoy - (Play 34 for the video) Someone please share one of Captain Kirk's worst INT's... I don't have the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Plus we could have lots of threads yelling, "see I told you we should have kept the other one, the one we kept sucks". That would be awesome.There's a chance that's going to happen no matter what we do. It doesn't make sense to keep them both and then let both of them leave for nothing. -Mad Mike What good does it do to continue dwelling on that stuff? They both had rocky seasons and the team as a whole, sucked. It's time to move on from the debacle that was 2014. Lets just hope they both watch the film and realize the mistakes they were making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You can literally find a similar still image for any QB in any game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You can literally find a similar still image for any QB in any game. 5 receivers wide open and a perfect pocket leading to a sack... Yeah... happens all the time. [facepalm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 You can literally find a similar still image for any QB in any game. Five open guys? And he doesn't throw the ball? No, I don't think so. That is one of the worst "QB can't find the open guy" pictures I have ever seen, for any QB. But hey, go ahead and find a picture where Eli has five open guys and doesn't throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Does similar = exactly the same? And yes I can find a play in most games and pause a play where a still image would look like a QB missed open receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Pointing to a singular play and making broad based judgements doesnt make much football sense to me. I thought this thread was supposed to be about more then generalizations based on single play? Aren't there enough other threads for that type of "discussion"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Does similar = exactly the same? And yes I can find a play in most games and pause a play where a still image would look like a QB missed open receivers. Yes, every QB misses an open receiver here and there. Not five on the same play. With great pass blocking and plenty of time, as another poster mentioned. Like I said, this is the worst I've ever seen on a single play. Go to google. Type: misses five open receivers The top four results are all RG3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 This play more than any other simply terrifies me. It doesn't terrify me, it baffles me...it's not like plays like these were par for the course for Griffin (or any of our QBs) over his time here. Someone please share one of Captain Kirk's worst INT's... I don't have the heart. Allow me lol...Not his "worst" INTs, just similar WTF moments: Guy wide open over the middle...instead Cousins throws--and throws poorly--to the crowded area marked with the "X"...interception! Ok, Kirk...I know you see the defender...he's right in front of you, watching you...there's nothing obstructing your view, either. You see him. You have to. And you've got a nice, clean pocket, too. So why the !#$! are you throwing--and throwing late--to Paul?!?! (marked with the "X")...almost intercepted!! Whoohoo!!...Got a guy wiiiiide open over the middle there, Kirk! Throw it to him...easy completion... Now you got THREE guys open, Kirk!!...Yeah!! And the defenders have their backs towards two of them!!...Throw that mf'er!... Or...don't, and get sacked. Guess which one he chose lol...sacked!! Unfortunately, the QB play from all of our QBs last year gives us a TON to freeze-frame and ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Oof, those are bad. But in the first picture, I think he's trying to pick up the first down, and the guy open for the dump off won't make it. It's only second down, though. What was the quarter and score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Oof, those are bad. But in the first picture, I think he's trying to pick up the first down, and the guy open for the dump off won't make it. It's only second down, though. What was the quarter and score? I don't remember either...I should go back and look, but, uh, it's just too windy outside. (that's code for "I'm lazy") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1skinsfanever Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I just find it funny those that say Robert is obviously better and we just need to give him more time while in the same breath they say Cousin's has blown his chances and his 9 starts are more than enough. I've seen a lot more potential in Cousins to be a successful NFL starter IMO. I think his turnover problems are more easily fixable than Robert's fundamentals and how he sees the field. Agree Cousin's only has 9 starts that's not even near as many as Robert so why do people want to give Rob a chance and not Kirk? Things like this is what holds this team back. If one is a better QB than the other then he should play I don't care what was giving up for him. To me it's not even a debate but that's why I'm on the couch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think we have to keep in mind that it is, no exaggeration 10 billion times easier to dissect a play on freeze frames after the fact than on the field. Most of us could throw to wide open receivers even with noodle arms(at least within 20 yards). But the reality is it happens fast, and as a QB you have to read quickly, going through your progressions. You cant just scan the field for the "open" guy, theres a reason progressions exist. The difference between great QBs and average ones is not that great QB's always see the open guy, its that they do so a bit more frequently. Remember, a top down view is VERY different from looking out across the field with 8-9 large linemen with arms flailing in front of you. The problem isnt QB's missing opportunities, its missing too many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I think we have to keep in mind that it is, no exaggeration 10 billion times easier to dissect a play on freeze frames after the fact than on the field. Most of us could throw to wide open receivers even with noodle arms(at least within 20 yards). But the reality is it happens fast, and as a QB you have to read quickly, going through your progressions. You cant just scan the field for the "open" guy, theres a reason progressions exist. The difference between great QBs and average ones is not that great QB's always see the open guy, its that they do so a bit more frequently. Remember, a top down view is VERY different from looking out across the field with 8-9 large linemen with arms flailing in front of you. The problem isnt QB's missing opportunities, its missing too many of them. well saidattempting to breakdown and discuss QB play is hard enough without people making broad based conclusion from stills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 At this point I give Kirk a slight edge in "probability to improve" simply because Griffin has looked like a guy who doesn't exactly have a Payton Manning work ethic. I can't come to any other conclusion for a guy who in his third year struggled with how many steps to drop back or when to throw the ball away and avoid the sack. I also have high hopes for Kirk's ability to improve, simply because he's the one with the least experience. In terms of "games played", he hasn't finished his rookie season, yet. Although I also have to confess that my opinion may be distorted because I got to watch him play (on TV) against Philly, which I thought was just an outstanding performance. But then didn't get to see his later games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Here's one from Hap, posted in the zoony bin, to feed one of the fires---this time it's the "Jay likes Kirk best" version Posted Today, 09:55 AM Dan Steinberg @dcsportsbog Kirk Cousins is doing offseason drills with Jon Gruden. Seems noteworthy http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/02/17/kirk-cousins-is-doing-offseason-drills-with-jon-gruden/ Interesting article, with a lot of conjecture and some info, you also can read it in BRBN, by SWFLskins favorite reporter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah but Steve Young had the advantage of being able to learn to play the WCO from Bill Walsh sitting on the bench watching Joe Montana. Pressure was off and he was given time to develop. He was also on a team used to winning with a strong culture to support success. RGIII is right in the spotlight and has Jay Gruden developing him and has Colt McCoy as the 'veteran' QB. He's also a Redskin on a team that's lost for a LONG time now and with the dysfunctional culture that perpetuates that losing. I'd say Steve Young had the better situation. I've always thought that was an underplayed problem and a flawed approach not having a better vet for your two young QBs to pick the brain of. Even when it was Rex, I thought that was an underwhelming choice for a mentor type, but at least it made some sense since he knew Kyle's offense inside and out. Even then, Rex knew nothing about all that read option and stuff outta the pistol Kyle employed. But when I see Andrew Luck with Matt Hasselbeck behind him, I'm envious. A guy that's started a lot of games and played well in the league. I get it, there's not a ton of those guys just sitting around, but the value of a guy like that in the film room and teaching these guys about winning and nuances of the position is something we lack. We seem intent on having these negative TD to INT guys as our 3rd string QB. There's only so much you're gonna get out of a guy that's never been any good like Rex or Colt. I mean, Jeff Garcia's still desperate to be in the league at 40 something, I would've preferred him just standing around in street clothes than Rex or Colt. I also have high hopes for Kirk's ability to improve, simply because he's the one with the least experience. In terms of "games played", he hasn't finished his rookie season, yet. Although I also have to confess that my opinion may be distorted because I got to watch him play (on TV) against Philly, which I thought was just an outstanding performance. But then didn't get to see his later games. Also a very important point that people overlook. Although, the longer he's in the league, I guess the less leeway he's gonna get on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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