Rodriggo Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Being as though RG3 rarely wins and turns the ball over as well , it's kind of a case of **** vs crap. Oh, totally. Look, I support Robert and I'm not blind to his struggles, nor am I against Cousins starting if he can actually win games but neither of them are showing they can win consistently any time soon so it's pointless arguing. As an RG3 loyalist I've come a long way in accepting that this team is no longer "his," he is not the "defacto franchise qb," and the "narrative of 2012" is over. That being said I believe he's the best QB on the roster and will most likely be the starter week 1 2015, just my opinion. But hey, if it's Cousins, let's go. I only hope the Cousins faction can extend that same courtesy and not undermine a potentially productive 6-10, 7-9 from Rob for the sake of nothing better with Kirk. I have my doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Is that what you see in the gifs, or are you saying that based on 2012? The only reason some people still think RG3 can be an NFL starter is because Snyder/Shanahan gave up three firsts and a second for him. If he'd been a third round pick, nobody outside our fanbase would even remember his name. He'd be "that running QB who had a great rookie season, but got hurt at the end and was worthless afterwards". No doubt that there are those who just may support Robert for just that reason. Just as there is no doubt there are those on the other side of the of RG3 debate that disparage him for just that reason as well. I don't believe,however,one can pigeon hole entire groups of either side of the debate with something so simple. Seen these debates over qb's for the Redskins a lot over the years. In the case of this one,I think the only things missing are bumper stickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Based on everything. Why do people defend Cousins? What leg do they stand on? The picks? The horrible record? The "beta" attitude? Real head scratcher for me. Griffin will beat him in camp, like a drum and he still has a long way to go, says a TON about Cousins to me. We're standing on his league leading YPA and ability to move the ball. Especially his ability to see guys going open far downfield and get the ball to them on target. The picks suck. He had three more than RG3 on about the same amount of pass attempts. RG3 had 25 more sacks. The horrible record is on the entire ****ing team. Cousins had one win, McCoy had two wins, Rg3 had one win. None of these three guys play defense. Our defense was 27th in the league, and dead last against the pass. The attitude after picks... yeah that sucks. How about RGme's attitude problems? Honestly, comparing Cousins to RG3 is dumb, because RG3 was one of the worst QBs in the league last season. It's like comparing Cousins to Blake Bortles or Josh McCown. Not a flattering comparison, even though Cousins comes out way ahead. However, RG3 and Cousins played for the same team, so we have to make the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Oh, here is the comparison done by the guy who wrote that article: http://nflbreakdowns.com/redskins-qb-comparison-rg3-cousins-mccoy/4/ It's not scientific, it's just one guy's opinions -- but a guy who watched a lot of film. 1a. Short-Medium Accuracy 1. RG32. Colt McCoy3. Kirk Cousins 1b. Deep Accuracy 1. Kirk Cousins2. Colt McCoy3. RG3 2. Vision and Decision-Making 1. Colt McCoy2. Kirk Cousins3. RG3 3. Pocket Presence 1. Colt McCoy2. Kirk Cousins3. RG3 4. Arm Strength 1. RG32. Kirk Cousins3. Colt McCoy 5. Anticipation 1. Colt McCoy2. Kirk Cousins3. RG3 6. Mobility [he means mobility as a runner, obviously not mobility in the pocket to avoid sacks] 1. RG32. Colt McCoy3. Kirk Cousins 7. Upside 1. RG32. Kirk Cousins3. Colt McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFromYellowstone Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just find it funny those that say Robert is obviously better and we just need to give him more time while in the same breath they say Cousin's has blown his chances and his 9 starts are more than enough. I've seen a lot more potential in Cousins to be a successful NFL starter IMO. I think his turnover problems are more easily fixable than Robert's fundamentals and how he sees the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 After watching that, its plainly obvious the Kirk Cousins is superior to McCoy and Griffin. His flaw is that he turns the ball over. Which apparently is enough to start two guys who constantly get sacked and can't move the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This was a fantastic and fair article - thank you for putting it together. Unfortunate that at the moment one of the young QBs will be short changed starting snaps for evaluation. Hope the QBs and coaches are honest about their bright spots and flaws. If Cousins can improve so much from last year, I think RG3 can too. Dont think his deep ball was nearly as good in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It's painful to see an offense in 2012 where the design had people wide open to an offense in 2014 where no one was open. Kirk Cousins forced the ball because he knew that Griffin was getting bashed for not throwing the ball. But I can honestly say that the offense was incredibly bland and predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amm0409 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Is there any other GIF's besides Cousins JAX game from the link above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FXMASTER Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 All 3 QB's basicaly in first season in new system/playbook. Would be interesting to know how much practice time each got w/ the starters. It is obvious that McCoy had the least. Also working the practice squad I believe means that the majority of his time was spent trying to emulate the oposing teams QB. Doesnt actualy translate into getting to know the playbook. It will be interesting to see what each of these QB's can do in their second year in the system...with hopefully a much improved Oline. What are each of these QB's doing this very instant....Filming commercials? Watching film/digging in playbook, and crying? Watching film/digging in playbook, and learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I remember watching rg3's predraft tape and noticing that his receivers were wide open on most of his deep passing conversions. either by blown coverages or kendall wright and friends smoking defensive backs. I had a hunch that his deep accuracy would diminish in the nfl when corners and safeties had better coverage. sadly that has occurred. rg3 seems a thrower as opposed to a passer on deep passing attempts. poor footwork, just trying to sling it past everyone, reminds me of Jason Campbell. that needs to be corrected, because he certainly has the ability to make the deep throw. Id love for cousins and rg3 to both get another chance to start somewhere, because they both have a lot of talent that needs developing. if it were me though, id be rolling with cousins and taking the chance that he can be safer with the football as opposed to correcting rg3's footwork, pocket presence, and lack of anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It's painful to see an offense in 2012 where the design had people wide open to an offense in 2014 where no one was open. Kirk Cousins forced the ball because he knew that Griffin was getting bashed for not throwing the ball. But I can honestly say that the offense was incredibly bland and predictable. I agree and disagree. WRs weren't as open on the first read as much as they were in 2012, but they were open all over the field more in 2014. Our QBs just either didn't see them, couldn't get the ball there, or didn't have the confidence in the OL to stay in the pocket the extra millisecond to deliver the ball. After reading the whole thing and watching all the GIFs he provided, I think McCoy performed the best out of all three QBs. Yet I wouldn't name McCoy my starter. His arm strength is severely lacking compared to even Cousins, much less Griffin. And although he's better at coverage recognition than both, more careful with the ball than Cousins, and better in the pocket than Griffin, I think he has reached his ceiling. I expect either Cousins or Griffin to improve in this offseason and become better than Colt. And after hearing Jay's comments about the QBs, I expect them to let either Cousins or Griffin go before TC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I just find it funny those that say Robert is obviously better and we just need to give him more time while in the same breath they say Cousin's has blown his chances and his 9 starts are more than enough. I've seen a lot more potential in Cousins to be a successful NFL starter IMO. I think his turnover problems are more easily fixable than Robert's fundamentals and how he sees the field. So you laugh at people who think Robert needs more time all the while advocating more time for Cousins lol. I'll just be happy when one or the other is gone so we can end all this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaskinsfan Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If I were leading this team I don't know what I would do about the QB position. Colt is a backup at best so I wouldn't consider him as the answer. RG3 has potential but also fundamental QB issues, whether he can improve things like decision making, vision, anticipation, pocket presence or not is a big question. Cousins has many QB qualities that should allow him to succeed but mentally seems to breakdown when there is pressure and has turnover issues. So both guys are flawed and perhaps flawed enough where they can't/won't improve. The Redskins need too much help at various positions to go after a QB with our 1st rounder. We almost have to go for OT, then secondary help and maybe OLB, or ILB, and DT. Will take a few years to build, maybe one of the two QB will fall to us @ #5 and we can trade down for more picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I agree and disagree. WRs weren't as open on the first read as much as they were in 2012, but they were open all over the field more in 2014. Our QBs just either didn't see them, couldn't get the ball there, or didn't have the confidence in the OL to stay in the pocket the extra millisecond to deliver the ball. In 2012 our WRs were "college open", and RG3 made money. In 2014 they were "NFL open", and we all saw what he managed with that. Jordan Reed gets open -- "NFL open" twice on the same play, but RG3 can't find him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You really saw Reed as open on that play? Twice no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You really saw Reed as open on that play? Twice no less. This is open, for sure. This is a QB not trusting his pocket or seeing the field. Why is he sprinting out of a good pocket directly to the side with the only pass rush? Something to do with Cooley's assessment that he cannot move left in the pocket? Wonder if that's why the pressure comes from there... QB's are supposed to slide around till they find the open man when they have a pocket to work in. His eyes are not down field, so the QB became a RB for NO reason. No one else on the team mattered anymore once he turns and started running. WR's ran routes for nothing, and the O'line blocked for nothing. RG3 did not do his job on this play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Based on everything. Why do people defend Cousins? What leg do they stand on? The picks? The horrible record? The "beta" attitude? Real head scratcher for me. Griffin will beat him in camp, like a drum and he still has a long way to go, says a TON about Cousins to me. Here's why there's a defense for Kirk. He's clearly shown that he can run this offense. You don't throw for over 400 yards, put the ball in tight windows and not NFL talent. When he's been on, he's as good as anyone. Good Kirk makes throws that Griffin simply doesn't make. In these vidoes, you don't see Griffin putting the ball into places that Kirk does. Kirk plays faster and gives the wr's a chance to run after the catch. For a guy that's started 9 games or so, I see plenty of potential. Again, he has 9 starts. Kirk has had a few terrible quarters of football, but to me he's more correctable. My question is, is he mentally tough enough to deal with adversity? If there's a competition in camp, Kirk IMO would beat Griffin out. Kirk clearly outplayed Griffin in the pre season. Theismann said it as well as the Patriots coaches. Think about it, the Patriots coaches had nothing to gain by saying what they said. They just saw the back-up that was outplaying the starter. Kirk has a LONG WAY to go. But IMO, with more playing time, he'll cut down on his mistakes. Griffin's problems seem more of an issue of not knowing how to play the position in Jay's offense. It's not about who run the fastest, or who throws it the farther, it's about production. I didn't see enough production from Griffin in Jay's offense. Did you? I saw a guy that just checks the ball down too much and tries to run around when he gets off his first read. Colt... he just doesn't have the arm to consistently push the ball downfield. Love the guy, seems like real good team player, but he looks like the perfect back-up QB. You really saw Reed as open on that play? Twice no less. Yes, if he throws the ball w/ anticipation, it's a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think Cousins can be a , sligthly, more dangerous Matt Schaub. I use that analogy because Gruden strikes me as another Kubiac. A decent to good coach when all the right pieces are in place. And can take a team to the playoffs but not into a deep run. I stress best case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodriggo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Kirk has a LONG WAY to go. But IMO, with more playing time, he'll cut down on his mistakes. Griffin's problems seem more of an issue of not knowing how to play the position in Jay's offense. Kirk's upside doesn't interest me in the slightest. Just being honest. I'd rather put up with Griffin's growing pains in the Dao of Jay for a little while longer because I still believe his upside is so much higher. I still for the life of me can't understand how this staff (& Griffin!) can't figure out an offense akin to what that chubby little **** Wilson runs up in Seattle. Power run and use the QB's athleticism to make plays. Maybe caus our defense blows so hard and our line is pedestrian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 This is open, for sure. This is a QB not trusting his pocket or seeing the field. Why is he sprinting out of a good pocket directly to the side with the only pass rush? Something to do with Cooley's assessment that he cannot move left in the pocket? Wonder if that's why the pressure comes from there... QB's are supposed to slide around till they find the open man when they have a pocket to work in. His eyes are not down field, so the QB became a RB for NO reason. No one else on the team mattered anymore once he turns and started running. WR's ran routes for nothing, and the O'line blocked for nothing. RG3 did not do his job on this play. there's a defender underneath and another over top of Reed. the ol is awful and not worthy of trust. The right side is being pushed into the center of the pocket right away. RG3 rolls right because he has receivers on that side he can throw to or he may have the option to run if the receivers stay covered. Once he rolls out he can still hit receivers. QBs rollout all the time, especially when the pocket collapses right away. RG3 has flaws but this seems like stuff being twistead to fit a predetermined conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 there's a defender underneath and another over top of Reed. the ol is awful and not worthy of trust. The right side is being pushed into the center of the pocket right away. RG3 rolls right because he has receivers on that side he can throw to or he may have the option to run if the receivers stay covered. Once he rolls out he can still hit receivers. QBs rollout all the time, especially when the pocket collapses right away. RG3 has flaws but this seems like stuff being twistead to fit a predetermined conclusion.I disagree with this analysis completely. I'd explain, but the two pictures do a perfectly good job of explaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 There's still the last game v cowboys in the all-22 thread where no one's gave their QB (or other) take on the last effort of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Kirk's upside doesn't interest me in the slightest. Just being honest. I'd rather put up with Griffin's growing pains in the Dao of Jay for a little while longer because I still believe his upside is so much higher. I still for the life of me can't understand how this staff (& Griffin!) can't figure out an offense akin to what that chubby little **** Wilson runs up in Seattle. Power run and use the QB's athleticism to make plays. Maybe caus our defense blows so hard and our line is pedestrian? You said it. Not taking anything away from Wilson, he's a really good player. Better than Griffin and Cousins right now. But they have a great defense. They rarely play from behind. Their defense keeps them in games. We always play from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 There's still the last game v cowboys in the all-22 thread where no one's gave their QB (or other) take on the last effort of the year. Wow...You just made me realize I ....don't have a QB. Do I need one? I was just going to wait and see who plays well. I would like to see that breakdown as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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