Joe Barry, we're not upset with you, we're upset about the hiring process

[Wildbunny]

Hiring someone you know isn't the problem if you have an exhaustive search and that person happens to be the best candidate.  However, there's a reason that many professions don't allow you to have a conflict of interests, which includes previous work experience (and let's be real, a social one too).  It's because it doesn't allow for objectivity no matter how much either party believes that it does.

 

Well they did interview many candidates and were denied to talk with some.

Quite not like they just talked to Barry.

 

Also, let's never forget as longshot implied it, it takes two to have a deal. Having a job to offer here is fine, but coaches might have other interests as well. We're not really killers right now, so you have to be inventive to field a good team, as the bests mostly wants to be elsewhere than here.

[SteveFromYellowstone]

Speak for yourself. I'm not upset about him or the process. Results of this hire have yet to be seen. Give the guy a chance. He can't be worse than Haslett. Can he? All the sky is falling, clean house in 2016 conspiracy stuff is reactionary and premature at best.

Yes he easily can be worse. He coordinated over a historically bad defense. I really don't get all you guys that still have faith in the hiring process when **** like this happens. So many people deny the obvious about Barry (and RG3). It's not going to turn out well. We will have a bad defense once again and Jay will be fired in a year or two. That is the path we are walking with this hire

[Rskins06]

I wonder what Cowboy fans are saying today about Marinelli? I'm sure last year they were saying the same thing we are.

Rob Marinelli led the Detroit Lions to a winless season, was hired by JJ and am positive the fan base went completely nuts, now, I bet they are all glad JJ looked past that failure and gave him a chance.

I am not saying Barry will work out just as good, but I won't judge him based on Detroit 4-5 years ago. He was very young and has probably learned a lot since then. We still don't know what his plans are for the defense so it is a little unfair to pass judgement IMO.

[More Complete]

Yes he easily can be worse. He coordinated over a historically bad defense.

 

A defense that got worse when Barry left and Gunther Cunningham (a fantastic DC) took over as DC. They had Matt Millen as a GM. That whole team was historically bad.

[redskins59]

I am not upset with this hire. I actually like it. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

Can you all guarantee that Barry, who is pretty young, hasn't learned?

[DogofWar1]

A defense that got worse when Barry left and Gunther Cunningham (a fantastic DC) took over as DC. They had Matt Millen as a GM. That whole team was historically bad.

 

This may be true, but I think all the excuses for the bad do is get him towards neutral, not positive.

 

Meanwhile, there are very clearly some positive people on the market just waiting to be plucked up.

 

I'd be far friendlier to the hire (assuming that's a thing and not some strange marketing smokescreen), if Barry was brought on as a positional coach and did well in that regard for a few years, I wouldn't mind him stepping, in, but nothing he's done has made him not unappealing.

[Chachie]

I like to think this board had something to do with the "mutual agreement" between Haslett and the redskins (I don't capitalize the team name anymore, they have to earn that back) about parting ways. Maybe the backlash from the news about Barry will reach the front office as well?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I wonder what Cowboy fans are saying today about Marinelli? I'm sure last year they were saying the same thing we are.

Rob Marinelli led the Detroit Lions to a winless season, was hired by JJ and am positive the fan base went completely nuts, now, I bet they are all glad JJ looked past that failure and gave him a chance.

They liked it when Marinelli came on board...many though the should have been DC instead of DL coach.

I like to think this board had something to do with the "mutual agreement" between Haslett and the redskins (I don't capitalize the team name anymore, they have to earn that back) about parting ways. Maybe the backlash from the news about Barry will reach the front office as well?

You WANT to think our front office is so weak that they let the bipolar fan base dictate things?

I'd be far friendlier to the hire (assuming that's a thing and not some strange marketing smokescreen), if Barry was brought on as a positional coach and did well in that regard for a few years...

Isn't that what he did, except on other teams?..

[Chachie]

 

You WANT to think our front office is so weak that they let the bipolar fan base dictate things?

 

 

Cali- I want to think they listen. I mean, in the last 20 years have they done any better than fans could do?

[DogofWar1]

Isn't that what he did, except on other teams?..

 

Sorta.  His record in SD is suspect, so I'm not sure how much stock he earns from those years.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Cali- I want to think they listen. I mean, in the last 20 years have they done any better than fans could do?

I don't want any decision makers within the Redskins to listen to any of the **** we fans toss out about personnel lol...holy hell.

Listen to us about ticket prices, training camp attendance, beer prices, what type of hot dogs to sell at the stadium, parking complaints...but under no circumstances should Snyder, Allen, Gruden or Scot M be giving a rat's ass what fans think about players, coaches, or coordinators.

[DC9]

Makes it that much easier for Scot to completely clean house for 2016.

 

That is essentially what this is all about, for me, too.

[Skinsinparadise]

Or, he could have said no for that reason, wanting his son to stand on his own.  To be honest, we don't know how the interview with Wade went and why the team didn't think it was a good match.

 

It's funny when Gibbs came back, no one had a problem with him bringing back the old gang even tho most of them were out of coaching.

 

The old gang in their heyday were among the best in the business.  This guy hasn't arguably had a heyday.   But apples to apples, Joe Gibbs came back and hired Gregg Williams (he had no relationship with him) who was regarded as one of the best candidates available to run the defense. 

[Peregrine]

Does Wade want to come back to be a winner, or does he want to come back just for a paycheck?

 

Does Jim Schwartz even want to come here, after interviewing for the HC position in 2008?  Also, he's a 4-3 guy.

 

As for Scot being involved, hiring assistants has always been the HC's responsibility.

 

I still haven't figured out why knowing a person is a bad thing in the hiring process.  It seems like fans just want to hire people based off of their resumes and not if their plans mesh with the people they are talking with.  I don't know if Barry is a good hire or not, but no one else really knows either.

 

Well, then heres why.  If you just hire someone based on you knowing them, and your friendship with them ahead of their ability, you are doing them a favor, and everyone else a disservice.  If you are a good talent evaluator, a good judge of people, and in a good organization, likely you are surrounded by good people, and then going with people you know can be wise.  If on the other hand, you have what the Redskins have, and you havent been in a good organization, and are a poor judge of people, then in all likelihood the people you have surrounded yourself with are not good at what they do.  if Joe Barry is so great, that he is a top 5 defensive coordinator, why has no one else asked him to be one in the past 6 years? Think about how 3 good friends can subsist in the NFL based purely on their hiring of each other.  Raheem Morris has a job with the Redskins because of Bruce Allen.  Bruce Allen got his first GM job because he had previously work with Jon Gruden.  He got fired, then got a job at the Redskins because his dad had coached here.  Jay Gruden got his job at Tampa because his brother worked there.  Allen got to know him because of that.  Then Allen hires Jay Gruden because of those previous ties.  Gruden retains Haslett because of them previously coaching together, and Morris as well.  Then enter Joe Barry, who got his first shot as a defensive coordinator because his father-in-law coached the Lions.  Now, he would be returned to that position by being hired by Jay Gruden, a former coach colleague of his, who was hired by a former colleague of his, and then he would keep Morris on staff rather than fire him, because he is a former coach colleague of his.  

 

All of this would be fine if they were all coaches that coached the 14-2 Patriots together.  But if you have 6 people, who dont know what they are doing, but think that they know what they are doing, and you have 0 people who actually know what they are doing, whos going to tell the other 6?  How would they ever know they werent any good?

[PlayAction]

_{Does the Joe Barry hiring make me nervous based upon his track record?  Yes.  But, I'm not upset with the hiring process if the decision maker is the Head Coach.  The HC should pick everyone on his coaching staff.} 

[Chachie]

I don't want any decision makers within the Redskins to listen to any of the **** we fans toss out about personnel lol...holy hell.

Listen to us about ticket prices, training camp attendance, beer prices, what type of hot dogs to sell at the stadium, parking complaints...but under no circumstances should Snyder, Allen, Gruden or Scot M be giving a rat's ass what fans think about players, coaches, or coordinators.

 

 

Your policy is better than mine for any other organization in the NFL but honestly, and in retrospect- I am beginning to think we know better. The track record is undeniable.  

[RemoveSnyder]

Makes it that much easier for Scot to completely clean house for 2016.

 

In retrospect, I wish we could have given Gibbs more draft picks in 2004. I still believe to this day that had we gotten one of the 2004 QBs, Gibbs would have gotten us another Lombardi.

 

Using hindsight and what-ifs are amazingly fun. We shouldn't be shunned or ostracized from doing it. While in the process of trading Bailey, it's a shame they couldn't have signed-and-traded Arrington's ass before he became a gimp. Hindsight obviously. Probably elements to his contract that prevented trade or something. Not the point.

 

Point is, we got to look in the mirror and be honest with ourselves. We suck.

We need to act like the 3-13 / 4-12 organization that we are ... ashamed.

 

Point is, when you are a 4-12 club, you should sell whatever you got that can give you draft picks. Be like the Kansas City Royals, be a farmclub to the Yankees or whoever, stockpile young draft picks, eventually emerge with a core of players established from a 3 year draft cycle.

 

But history repeats itself.

Did we have a complete reboot under Shanny? - Nope.

But why not?

 

I guarantee you the fans would have been ok with it. But we send picks out for McNabb, purchase hobbled hip Brown from the Saints and bring in the endless parade of cheap free agents with cheap ability. 

 

If I could ask for one thing it would be for a complete, real, rebuild.

 

I understand that you are simply referring to the coaches here, in your post. And the notion that McC would clear away the entire staff in 2016, that perhaps his shortlist of coaches are simply not available right now. I get that.

 

But, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that McC wouldn't do a total and complete gutting of the roster, this year, simply for the sake of not crushing Gruden into a lame duck before the season even started in 2015.

 

McC could conceivably gut the entire roster and truly leave Gruden with nothing, all but lining up the 1st overall choice in the 2016 Draft, but, I guarantee you IF we had a fire sale, there would be media types decrying that McC is totally heartless and completely set-up Gruden for failure.

 

So what can you do?

 

Ideally the roster and coaching staff gets tossed into the dumper at the same time. Therefore you can't say that the GM undercut the coaches with a talent depleted roster, nor can you say in the inverse, that the talent on the roster was undermined by incompetent coaching.

 

I really don't want to wait another year. I don't want to hold off the roster purge just to be nice to an Offensive Coordinator wrongly hired as a HC. I don't want to wait another year to do what we already see is the endgame.

 

If we believe today, January of 2015, that the coaching staff is all but gone by January of 2016, barring a miracle season, then what the hell are we doing by delaying the inevitable?

 

I'm so anguished, I can live with a complete dismantling of the roster for draft picks, as many as you can get. Go overboard. I don't care. I can live without free agents. It's an "overpayment system" anyway. That is the definition of free agency.

 

I just don't want to have to look back in 5 to 6 years and say:

"oh, IF we only did this ..." 

"IF we only acted sooner in 2015 rather than waiting another year ..."

 

I don't want half measures and I don't want to wait another year for the inevitable. Take me now. We need to hit the gym and stop fooling ourselves with oversized shirts that conceal our belly. Put down the beer, put down the pipe and get that ass moving. 

 

Give me draft players. Give me young. I'll take 2 full seasons of walking through the desert with Moses. Sand in the eyes, burnt feet ... (we'll leave the circumcision out of it though).

 

Then emerge.

 

(Had to get that off my chest).

 

 

[skinsforlife101]

in the salary cap era of football it is so hard to go 0-16 and Barry in Detroit was a huge part of the reason. Mind you the Lions Defensive Roster was better then our current defensive roster.

[skinpride1]

in the salary cap era of football it is so hard to go 0-16 and Barry in Detroit was a huge part of the reason. Mind you the Lions Defensive Roster was better then our current defensive roster.

That is scary ..ughhh

[JoeSkins]

I am not upset with this hire. I actually like it. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

Can you all guarantee that Barry, who is pretty young, hasn't learned?

It's possible that Barry did learn some valuable lessons at the Lions' expense.  Not every good coach started out that way, so maybe he has an upward trajectory.

[Laron Burgundy]

Give me draft players. Give me young. I'll take 2 full seasons of walking through the desert with Moses. Sand in the eyes, burnt feet ... (we'll leave the circumcision out of it though).

 

Then emerge.

 

(Had to get that off my chest).

 

Well said.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want to go TOO overboard though.  I wouldn't get rid of Kerrigan and Williams because they probably still have a shelf life of 6 years (and a rebuild shouldn't take THAT long), and I don't think our other assets are worth much (MAYBE Almo fetches us a 4th and 5th like Marshawn did and we could possibly get something from Jackson and Garcon), but I'd be fine with just not signing FA's and trading down to get future firsts (how brilliant was the vikings draft a few years back?  They are set with some big time talent now).

 

If in 2016 we get an honest to god good coaching candidate, I'm fine with sitting back and letting an actual rebuild play out.  No more Hatcher, Lauvao, Grant, Roberts or Jackson-esque signings, just let our young guys fight for starter spots and be ok with being bad until the right players shuffle out, cause chances are we're overpaying for half the signings anyways.

[chris_c_19960]

I still prefer Wade Philips and this deal isn't set in stone yet lot of these reports are being retracted now aren't they I haven't received its official text yet.

[Springfield]

Should rename the thread title, "Welcome to DC Joe Barry, you won't be given a chance".

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Typical Redskins media coverage..SHOOT..Ready..AIM..retract...same BS with the previous coaches...these reporters SUCK and are ALLOT of our problem. We are trashing a guy over a false report???

[TexasSkinsFan]

A defense that got worse when Barry left and Gunther Cunningham (a fantastic DC) took over as DC. They had Matt Millen as a GM. That whole team was historically bad.

 

How do you get worse then 32nd in the league in two seasons?

 

2007 - Lions Allowed 444 points (27.8/g), 32nd in the league

2008 - Lions Allowed 517 points (32.3/g), 32nd in the league

 

Wiki shares this little nugget about that 2007 season

 

 

 

The 422 pass completions that Detroit surrendered in 2007 is an NFL record. The 70.1% completion percentage against the Lions defense was the worst in league history until it was broken by the Colts in 2011

 

Wiki shares this little nugget about 2008

 

 

 

The Lions gave up 517 points during the season, coming within 16 of matching the 1981 Colts' record of 533 points allowed. The Lions' 32.31 points per game allowed on defense is the third worst of any NFL team since the 60's, bettering only the 1966 Giants (35.79 PPG) and the aforementioned 1981 Colts (33.31 PPG)

 

The only time this guy ever was a Defensive Coordinator that's what he did. How did they get worse when he left the Lions?

 

In San Diego for the last four seasons as a LB coach 0 Probowlers, how can they get worse if he leaves there? This guy fails every where he goes