DogofWar1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 False. His development wasn't stifled. While I think his ability to be a "prototypical" NFL QB is less than many QBs, none of us can say with certainty how he would have looked in year 3 of a Gruden-style WCO because he hasn't had 3 years in it. He has less than 1 year in it. We can be pessimistic all we want and say that 2 more years in a WCO system (with a hopefully better OLine) would make no difference, but that's speculation. If he looked this crappy in year 1, we'd have given him another year or two to see where he was around right now, in year 3. It's also worth noting that if he looked this crappy in year 1 because of indecision, Shanny might have been more aggressive in pursuing OL in the 2013 offseason, and Gruden might have been similarly aggressive this offseason. We were fooled by 2012 into thinking things were ok, and that has led to us investing in a mid-to-low tier FA, and two 3rd round picks, instead of in a premium talent FA and a 2nd rounder or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Maybe as fans we were all so caught up drinking the RG3 kool-aid that we were hating on Mike Shanahan for actually handling the Robert situation. ...the right way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yeah I know. If 'any' fan base has more than 3-4 losses at this point, they are all in a civil war.. It's nothing unique to Washington...just perhaps more well known after the last week... Well that, and people see the Chip Kelly avatar and probably are already ready to spit fire. And it is right after the game. At this point I am numb to this, just another chapter in the Dan Snyder saga, right? I do take issue with saying Griffin was "overrated" from the start though. I felt he was rated about where his performance warranted in 2012 which was a young QB having a great year. He had coaches which to their credit designed an offense around his strengths, it wasn't perfect by any means, and I think we all knew he would have to get better and incorporate more into his passing ability going forward, but this year to me has felt like they are trying to fundamentally change the kind of QB they drafted which is the wrong approach, And the reason I say this is because I see two other teams doing the same thing we did in 2012 two seasons later and for the most part it is working still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Maybe as fans we were all so caught up drinking the RG3 kool-aid that we were hating on Mike Shanahan for actually handling the Robert situation. ...the right way? Perhaps...but I think he went about trying to do the right thing in the wrong way, and that's probably too polite. The buddy-buddy atmosphere Snyder set up with Griffin wasn't good, but Shanahan made plenty of mistakes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Why do we have to argue and bicker over whether it was RGIII OR the OL that sucked. Can't it have been both? I don't know what game some of you were watching, but I saw plenty of plays where RGIII held on too long AND plenty of plays where free rushers got to the backfield in under 2 seconds. If we blame one and not both, we do ourselves a disservice, and set ourselves up for further failures. Completely accurate. Sometimes the line deteriorated and RG3 had no chance, other times he dropped back and had plenty of time- only to throw it in the dirt, miss entirely, or hold on too long. One thing is for sure, he has horrible pocket awareness. RG3 fanboys want to blame the line for all of his shortcomings. That simply is not the case. He shows weakness even when given ample protection. The same idiots said the exact thing about Jason Campbell. What insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 six game winning streak when the team plays well beside him. If you're gonna give the QB all the blame, then he deserves all the credit too. Seven game streak and it was more than how the team around him played. The system that allowed him to run for 500 yards, kept DEs from rushing him, and had LBs stepping up leaving huge holes in the coverage for his one read passes is not coming back.And I do give him credit when he does things well. Everybody in this thread admitted he made nice plays on our TD drive and that his pass across the middle to Garçon was good. You never admit that his screw ups (which are most of the time) are bad. Hell, last week was an historically bad game and you spent the entire time excusing every bad play and blaming everybody but Griffin. He can't play man. He can't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGOheadray Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 False. His development wasn't stifled. If he had run anything different than what shanny had him doing his rookie year he would have just looked like this sooner. Nothing he has shown in this role as an actual quarterback gives any indication he has mad any progress or ever will. He had so much success his rookie year throwing to guys that were open on the same routes every play. No reading a defense or decision making. Fake a handoff and throw an easy pass to an uncovered receiver. He was brilliant at it and certainly made some unbelievable improvisational plays but the shanahan's out him in an offense built to make him shine. Then he and his family flipped their ****, hell we all did when he got hurt and demanded we play real offense. Well, this is the result. He can't play that role. I ran out of likes so I will just re-quote this. I'm getting sick of people bringing up 2012 as if what we were running was a real NFL offense. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 There's no reason anymore to look at oline, game plan, receivers, whatever. With this much of a body of work and the simple eye test, you can tell the dude just should not be starting. He's hamstrung everyone at this point. The coaches can't even call the plays they want, what's the point of discussing the plays that are called? The reveivers are running routes for no reason, what's the point of discussing their abilities? This is ridiculous, we're barely even playing football with Robert right now. I feel horrible for the guy, I'm not going to personally **** talk him like many are. It's just beyond unacceptable. He needs to sit. You don't play him just to play him, he's not special. That's unfair to the players around him and unfair to the fans. Also it's unrealistic to say 'play him for draft position'. Coaches aren't saying that so just forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Perhaps...but I think he went about trying to do the right thing in the wrong way, and that's probably too polite. The buddy-buddy atmosphere Snyder set up with Griffin wasn't good, but Shanahan made plenty of mistakes too. I should have been more specific. I was mainly referring to when he benched Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandB11 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 nm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 5-0 or we don't go? So we can be put out of our misery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMVP Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Maybe as fans we were all so caught up drinking the RG3 kool-aid that we were hating on Mike Shanahan for actually handling the Robert situation. ...the right way? No...Shanahan's hands were dirty too. He was no saint in that whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 T @TMM75 43s43 seconds ago I totally forgot about this quote from Jay following the loss to Arizona #StartLookingAtOneGuyThenWeGotProblems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter_R Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Maybe as fans we were all so caught up drinking the RG3 kool-aid that we were hating on Mike Shanahan for actually handling the Robert situation. ...the right way?Maybe for 2013. We can still hate him for the 2012 playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysaskin Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Completely accurate. Sometimes the line deteriorated and RG3 had no chance, other times he dropped back and had plenty of time- only to throw it in the dirt, miss entirely, or hold on too long. One thing is for sure, he has horrible pocket awareness. RG3 fanboys want to blame the line for all of his shortcomings. That simply is not the case. He shows weakness even when given ample protection. The same idiots said the exact thing about Jason Campbell. What insanity. Or maybe it's the fact that we neglect the O-Line year in and year out, outside of Trent, which we had to do because Samuels was done for, we have plugged this line with tissue paper. This has been SOP for the last 10 years, and we wonder why we've gone through. 11 starting QB's since 2004, but hey let's make it 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Seven game streak and it was more than how the team around him played. The system that allowed him to run for 500 yards, kept DEs from rushing him, and had LBs stepping up leaving huge holes in the coverage for his one read passes is not coming back. And I do give him credit when he does things well. Everybody in this thread admitted he made nice plays on our TD drive and that his pass across the middle to Garçon was good. You never admit that his screw ups (which are most of the time) are bad. Hell, last week was an historically bad game and you spent the entire time excusing every bad play and blaming everybody but Griffin. He can't play man. He can't play. Six. Kirk won one of them. And frankly, you and I have different standards. I don't even like the idea of a Franchise Quarterback. But a guy who played in the past... you don't just get to say he can't play. He's damn well proven he can play. You don't get to tell me what's bad and who can play. A QB who forces throws into double coverage, or throws it long or short and gets an INT is a guy who made a bad throw. A guy who throws it down the middle of the field and totally misses a defender cutting across like Kirk did against Arizona had a bad throw. A guy who has an INT because of someone else doing something to the ball? That's not on him. Someone complains about him checking down one week and then complains about him not checking down the next, deserves to be called on it. Just because we're the fans doesn't mean we get to be right all the time. I want an Oline that gives him enough time to write a book, just like Mark Rypien had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Maybe as fans we were all so caught up drinking the RG3 kool-aid that we were hating on Mike Shanahan for actually handling the Robert situation. ...the right way? He kept RG3 in the Seattle game despite being obviously injured and then let him dictate when he was ready to go despite not even playing in a preseason game? That's the right way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zazzaro703 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Gruden deserves as much blame as the QB. He didn't give him many opps to make something happen and when he did that joke of an OL rolled over. Gruden was hired to coach up Robert- period. He was failed at that job. And his boy Bruce Allen has failed at addressing our biggest need for 10 years- OL. This organization is so messed up! Marty to Spurrier- Gibbs to Zorn - Shanahan to Gruden- there is a trend her folks- and no one can win with little big man in charge. sad but true! And to think- we couldn't even suck well enough for Luck! is is hail or hell? This is my issue too, Gruden was hired to coach up Griffin and he doesn't even call plays to get him out of the pocket. So much disaster happens in the pocket so why wouldn't there be more plays called that moves Griffin and the pocket around. So has Gruden decided in less than a year he just can't coach Griffin and its above his head? When he got here was it never his intentions to have Griffin long term? Did Bruce just hire a buddy and fed us all a bunch of crap about having a thorough coaching search to find the best man for the job and to coach up Griffin? Yes I get it there are plays to be made from the pocket at times and Griffin has contributed to them not working, so why not try something new? How many times on 3rd and obvious passing downs today did we all know there was about a 10% chance we were going to convert? Griffin was going to get the snap and stay in the pocket. Then Whether it be griffin holding the ball too long, not seeing the open guy, the o line allowing free rushers or just plain getting beat, the pocket collapsing.... The play was going to fail many more times than succeed and we all knew it. Why did we not see any adjustment with the play calling? Gruden was brought here to make Griffin better and it's clear they just do not know how to work together. Griffin is struggling to run the plays Gruden wants to call and Gruden doesn't want to call plays that will get Griffen out of the pocket. Gruden may turn out to be a good coach and his offense here has shown that it can be efficient being ran by McCoy and Cousins, but we were sold on him being hired to groom our franchise QB and that is already an obvious bust and it seems he isn't even interested in that plan. All I can hope for at this point is that Gruden is just challenging Griffen, who has been given special treatment here, and it motivates him to get his ass in gear and learn to run the offense. I'm not even sure if that qualifies as a fools hope though at this point. Griffin is on his own now, either learn to play the position or you won't be here much longer. I guess that really isn't that bad of a thing because a gimmick offense isn't going to last or succeed for 10 seasons in this league so he had to learn at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 He kept RG3 in the Seattle game despite being obviously injured and then let him dictate when he was ready to go despite not even playing in a preseason game? That's the right way? wish I could like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Whether holding the ball or not, the fact that the OL has been called into question for almost 2 decades straight and has destroyed the careers of three 1st round QBs, how is that not the obvious problem to some?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 This is my issue too, Gruden was hired to coach up Griffin and he doesn't even call plays to get him out of the pocket. So much disaster happens in the pocket so why wouldn't there be more plays called that moves Griffin and the pocket around. So has Gruden decided in less than a year he just can't coach Griffin and its above his head? When he got here was it never his intentions to have Griffin long term? Did Bruce just hire a buddy and fed us all a bunch of crap about having a thorough coaching search to find the best man for the job and to coach up Griffin? Yes I get it there are plays to be made from the pocket at times and Griffin has contributed to them not working, so why not try something new? How many times on 3rd and obvious passing downs today did we all know there was about a 10% chance we were going to convert? Griffin was going to get the snap and stay in the pocket. Then Whether it be griffin holding the ball too long, not seeing the open guy, the o line allowing free rushers or just plain getting beat, the pocket collapsing.... The play was going to fail many more times than succeed and we all knew it. Why did we not see any adjustment with the play calling? Gruden was brought here to make Griffin better and it's clear they just do not know how to work together. Griffin is struggling to run the plays Gruden wants to call and Gruden doesn't want to call plays that will get Griffen out of the pocket. Gruden may turn out to be a good coach and his offense here has shown that it can be efficient being ran by McCoy and Cousins, but we were sold on him being hired to groom our franchise QB and that is already an obvious bust and it seems he isn't even interested in that plan. All I can hope for at this point is that Gruden is just challenging Griffen, who has been given special treatment here, and it motivates him to get his ass in gear and learn to run the offense. I'm not even sure if that qualifies as a fools hope though at this point. Gruden did only have one season to try to get together an OLine, and he has been trying to coach multiple QBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Maybe as fans we were all so caught up drinking the RG3 kool-aid that we were hating on Mike Shanahan for actually handling the Robert situation. ...the right way? I fear for your safety after this, lol, trust me. This thought or anything remotely resembling it isn't even allowed to be pondered here. Just leave it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Or maybe it's the fact that we neglect the O-Line year in and year out, outside of Trent, which we had to do because Samuels was done for, we have plugged this line with tissue paper. This has been SOP for the last 10 years, and we wonder why we've gone through. 11 starting QB's since 2004, but hey let's make it 12 It's both. If we could do this over I think we'd have prioritized building the line way more than we did, but Griffin's weaknesses are many. It's frankly just a comedy of errors. To have a consistently successful team we don't just need the quarterback OR the Oline, we need both. The QB is probably the more important piece there, but we need at least an average OL, and outside of Trent it's been band-aids every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_sanchize Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Its sad the skins are losing games like this with all the offensive weapons they have. As much as I would like to see colt get in ,I feel that Gruden will stick with RG3 till the end of the season, because of the higher ups and how much they sacrificed to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Whether holding the ball or not, the fact that the OL has been called into question for almost 2 decades straight and has destroyed the careers of three 1st round QBs, how is that not the obvious problem to some?? It's one obvious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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