MMQB: Diagnosing What Ails RG3

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's hard to defend him right now but I've got a hard time the 2012 version of RG3 was a mirage.  Not the running, I'm not talking about the ****ing running...I'm talking about completing 65.6% of his passes with 8.1 yards per attempt.

 

I don't believe that was luck.  I understand the fact that he was a run threat set up a lot of those opportunities, but he still made the throws.  

 

But he looks awful right now.  Not ready to write him off 100% just yet but he's making it hard.

[Destino]

The only responsibility we as fans now have is to make sure Snyder understands that he best not choose anyone else over RGIII again.

What?

[squijoo]

What ails RG3?

- Ego

- Pressure (on an doff the field)

- Injury

- Ego

- Attitude

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

According to Steve Young he has talked to III's previous coaches and they said III doesn't want to put in the time. Sorry, but there is too much smoke coming from all directions for there not to be some truth to it.

 

Do you got a source? That sounds like literally the opposite of previous descriptions of him.

[kmd24]

It's hard to defend him right now but I've got a hard time the 2012 version of RG3 was a mirage.  Not the running, I'm not talking about the ****ing running...I'm talking about completing 65.6% of his passes with 8.1 yards per attempt.

 

I don't believe that was luck.  I understand the fact that he was a run threat set up a lot of those opportunities, but he still made the throws.  

 

But he looks awful right now.  Not ready to write him off 100% just yet but he's making it hard.

 

It wasn't a mirage, but it was heavily, heavily dependent on the running success. I don't have the 2012 final statistics, but this article on PFF says through Dec. 1 of that year he averaged 12.5 yards per attempt on play action passes and only 5.7 ypa (!!)  on straight drops.

 

He still had a decent rating w/o play action because he threw very few interceptions and completed a high percentage of his passes, but that could be because he was more apt to run or just hold it and take a sack (7.1% sack percentage which was 25th in the league in 2012) if he didn't find an open receiver.

[PartyPosse]

This is a chance for the organization and for the fans to rally around a player being dragged mercilessly through the mud. This is an opportunity for all of us to spin things in a more positive way and support a player we all fell in love with 3 years ago. This is obviously a player who wants to win here and is struggling and needs some positive reinforcement to maybe help him out to figure out what he can do. Instead, it's just easier for everyone to want to kick the man while he's down.

It's a win-win situation for you fair weather fans. He does well then the team does well, if he fails then you take joy in laughing at another chapter in his struggling career. In my book that's pathetic. And now the way so called "fans" can't even support the things he said in a post game press conference, it's just sad, man. Failure all the way around.

I'm glad I'm not in relationships with any of you. You'd probably be happier just tossing me to the curb than actually putting in the time and effort to make it work.

I am embarrassed for all of you since you have too much pride to be embarrassed for yourselves.

[MattFancy]

According to Steve Young he has talked to III's previous coaches and they said III doesn't want to put in the time. Sorry, but there is too much smoke coming from all directions for there not to be some truth to it.

 

That seems way off. If anything, all you've heard from people is about how hard of a worker he is.

[dsciambi]

It's a win-win situation for you fair weather fans. He does well then the team does well, if he fails then you take joy in laughing at another chapter in his struggling career. In my book that's pathetic. And now the way so called "fans" can't even support the things he said in a post game press conference, it's just sad, man. Failure all the way around.

 

You sound like a fan of Griffin and not the team.

 

I think most of us "fair weather fans" want the team to have success. And it appears almost decisively so that we'd have more success with Griffin on the bench.

 

You say "he does well then the team does well" as if Griffin is the only possible reason the Redskins could ever have success.

 

"Fans" like YOU disgust ME.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Remember when Ramsey was a young kid and would stay in the pocket?

Then he got hit so much that he basically couldn't play anymore, was suffering from type of post-spurrior tramatic stress syndrome?

Griffin to me is the same.

He's never recovered mentally or emotionally from his second ACL. He might be there physically. But what's going on between the ears has taken many steps backwards.

[dballer]

According to Steve Young he has talked to III's previous coaches and they said III doesn't want to put in the time. Sorry, but there is too much smoke coming from all directions for there not to be some truth to it.

 

I was about to post this. Young was talking about how difficult it is to learn how to play QB. Compared the amount of studying it takes to the amount it took for him to get through law school. Playing QB is more mental than physical. Peyton Manning could barely throw the ball 20 yards when he first came back and almost made it to the superbowl. Young explained how you may know what is supposed to happen, but you have to drill it so far into your head that it becomes a reflexive recall. If Griffin has been drilling this stuff into his head, he wouldn't get out there and start taking the wrong drops. It wouldn't take him as long to go through the progressions. Those extra milliseconds it takes to recognize whats happening is what is killing him.

 

We have heard the rumors about RG3 being more concerned with the weight room than the film room. At this point, when speaking of his regression, nothing makes more sense than the possibility he simply isn't putting in the effort in the film room.

That seems way off. If anything, all you've heard from people is about how hard of a worker he is.

 

But is that work in the film room, or the weight room. Because every time we hear this it is talking about him trying to rehab.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

The truth is that he's struggling, mightily. He's completely regressed in nearly every aspect as a QB. I do not exactly understand why this is happening but I'm sure constant pressure hasn't helped things. He's not seeing things that are there and then he's sensing rush that's not even coming. He has to get back to the basics and start over. If he continues on this path, especially the passive aggressive stuff in regards to the criticism of his play than he'll never "get it".

I agree mostly. Although I'm not convinced he has regressed. He never had these skills. My concern in giving up so much for him was that he was a college guy who had a meteoric rise, kind of out of nowhere. He played sandlot football in a conference that doesn't bother playing defense. He was physically superior to 98% of the people on the field with him at any time. He never played any kind of football that would prepare him the for requirements of an NFL QB. He was a great college QB because he was smart and physically superior to everyone else on the field. And Briles has a great offensive system when the opposing teams don't play D. See the other QBs there breaking Robert's records.

2012 was a product of Kyle. (Let the flaming begin!!) He did a great job of recognizing what he did well and designing an offense that paralyzed defenses. Robert's unique abilities flourished until injury and NFL coordinators learning to control it. That and Robert didn't want to do that anymore. Problem is he doesn't and never did no how to be an NFL QB. Too far behind the curve to learn it now. Nothing is impossible, but very unlikely.

We would be more likely to teach Kirk not to throw stunning interceptions 2-3 times a game than for Robert to learn the stuff he should have been mastering in his sophomore year in college.

[Mr. Sinister]

That seems way off. If anything, all you've heard from people is about how hard of a worker he is.

Well clearly all that hard work is not paying off, because he still cannot grasp basic QB fundamentals.

[Alexa]

He's just not that good. Jeez! Why is that so hard so people to admit it??????

[UK Skins]

You sound like a fan of Griffin and not the team.

 

I think most of us "fair weather fans" want the team to have success. And it appears almost decisively so that we'd have more success with Griffin on the bench.

 

 

PartyPosse is a Griffin fan, you're absolutely right. Read any thread on the subject and he's crying at any criticism of Griffin and calling everyone who doesn't support his view "haters". I've noticed it over the last few weeks. Him and a couple of others.

[50yrSKINSfan]

_{Hi. My take on this mess is that in the old days they said it would take a college QB 4-5 yrs to develop into a pro QB. That was because the pro system was so different from the college system. Today it is different. Colleges use the same system as the pros so a kid can come in from college and start and play well in the pros. RG3 did not come from a pro style offence so it will take him a minimum of 4yrs to develop. You have to give Robert that much time plus more as he lost time to injury. Tony Dungee was asked this question and he said it takes 5 yrs to develop. Add to the fact that RG3 is not a GOOD POCKET QB WHEN UNDER DURESS. Eli is the same. He panics under pressure. Rogers, Big Ben, Romo are good in the pocket under duress. It is simple. RG3 will not be a good pocket passer until he has a good pass protecting Oline. It takes time to develop the subtle moves to avoid a pass rush. RG3 never did that his whole carrier as he would just run every chance he could instead of hanging in there and learning to move and step up in the pocket.  A OB has to be able to step forward when he throws to be accurate, and you can't do that with someone rushing you from the front. In my mind I see RG3 loosing confidence if he gets off to a bad start so he hesitates and in todays NFL everything is so fast you don't have time to hesitate. As a pro QB you have to have a short memory. If you throw a pick forget it. Next time out throw without thinking about the pick. Set and fire, set and fire. I didn't like the trade that brought RG3 here but now that he is here you have to give him 5 yrs period.}

[Destino]

This is a chance for the organization and for the fans to rally around a player being dragged mercilessly through the mud. This is an opportunity for all of us to spin things in a more positive way and support a player we all fell in love with 3 years ago. This is obviously a player who wants to win here and is struggling and needs some positive reinforcement to maybe help him out to figure out what he can do. Instead, it's just easier for everyone to want to kick the man while he's down.

 

 

If the main concern were something that I'd categorize as "dragging through the mud" I'd agree with you.  But I think the biggest issue has moved from the dramatic accusation of RG3 being lousy at press conference or the rumor mill whispers that he isn't well liked by his teammates.  The talk now seems to have settled on his actual play which is the type of criticism that any NFL player should expect.  That isn't mud slinging.  Fans won't love a bad QB starting for their football team.

 

Also I think that after Grudens comments the last thing RG3 needs to worry about are fans or media opinions.  He seems a lot closer to losing his job than anybody would have imagined going into this season.  He needs to play better and he needs to do so in a hurry. 

[Brokenstriker]

ELite QB's struggling

"Elite?"  ...  seriously?  Mrs. Griffin?

 

love him or hate him ... there's no case for "elite" status.  Best case is half of 2012 and that argument is met with better counter arguments.  Elite QBs do not have 0.393 career win-loss records, and a total QBR of 40 (13 games in 2013) and 34 (3+ games in 2014) ... they don't have 8 game losing streaks

[Brokenstriker]

suggestion to football fans everywhere, especially people commenting on RG3 ... its time to stop calling a quarterback who is a physically gifted athelete "talented" or "supremely talented" or anything that includes the word or root "talent" unless they are a successful quarterback.  Quarterback quality is not about being the fastest, quickest, strongest, biggest ... its about being the quarterback who plays the position well usually but not always associated with winning games.  It involves mastering the strategies, tactics, techniques, timing, anticipation and decision making as much or more so than it requires being the fastest, quickest, strongest or biggest.  These physical gifts are helpful but not required and certainly not equivilent to being a "talented" quarterback.

[DJD2]

According to Steve Young he has talked to III's previous coaches and they said III doesn't want to put in the time. Sorry, but there is too much smoke coming from all directions for there not to be some truth to it.

 

Meaning he talked Shanahan

 

I'd probably take it with a half pound of salt

[Brokenstriker]

 _{but now that he is here you have to give him 5 yrs period.}

hi

 

I think you're missing an important unstated condition in the 4 - 5 years to develop a college QB into a good NFL QB.  The unstated assumption is that the individual can and will develop into a good NFL QB.  Also your conclusion implies two things that I also take exception to ... that there is no indication that this development will succeed until it succeeds (i.e., you can't correctly conclude that an individual will not develop into an NFL QB until you have given them 4 - 5 years) ... and ... that this development requires playing 4 -5 seasons of NFL games as a less than good QB as opposed to being an understudy for a major portion of those 4 - 5 years like most of the old school QBs did. 

 

Not every candidate will develop into a good NFL QB including former NCAA superstars (long list of examples).  This end case does not required 4 - 5 years to conclude its not going to work  I'm pretty sure that the NFL wisdom on this subject is that *if a candidate is a good candidate and does develop his skills ... *then it takes this individual 4 - 5 years to arrive as a good NFL quarterback.  I'm sure that professional talent assessors (coaches, etc.) at the NFL level can assess the progress and limitations of this development and relably conclude that the candidate has a good chance to becoming good ... or doesn't.

[3200fps]

Do you got a source? That sounds like literally the opposite of previous descriptions of him.

 

 

I feel this has merit coming from Young in the form.  It would also tend to explain some things.  As M&M said this morning, it really appears Bob is more concerned with his brand versus his game on the field.

[skins4eva]

That MMQB breakdown is very damning.  Right now, RGIII has no grap of the basics.  He has got to get those down before anything else will fall into place, and he has to get them down under live fire--a very tall order.  I don't know if it's possible.  He's simply not used to having to read defenses and make decisions in the pocket.  It's not what he was asked to do at Baylor, and it is certainly not what the Shannahan brain trust asked him to do in his first year.  Without the read option, he's playing against 11 on d instead of 10 or 9 (accounting for LBs or others who must freeze and or react to the threat of the run).  In a perfect world, instead of dropping the read option cold turkey, there would have been some bridge between read option and traditional pocket passer.  We are past that point now, and with the injuries he's suffered, perhaps such a bridge wasn't possible to begin with.  But, it's very disheartening and disturbing to see him missing basic, 101-type reads on the field, and it must completely infuriate Gruden.  

 

I think the strategy will be this:  play RGIII for the remainder of the season and see how much progress he can make and how drastically he can improve on the basics.  Then take a full offseason and open it up to competition.  

[LightningBuggs]

Do you got a source? That sounds like literally the opposite of previous descriptions of him.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/18/steve-young-coaches-have-told-me-rg3-doesnt-put-in-the-time/

Meaning he talked Shanahan

 

I'd probably take it with a half pound of salt

 

Until RG proves differently on the field, I'm going to believe Shanny over him.  

[Brokenstriker]

 

I think the strategy will be this:  play RGIII for the remainder of the season and see how much progress he can make and how drastically he can improve on the basics.  Then take a full offseason and open it up to competition.  

I like the open-mindedness of this but I think it give him this season to make it work.  If he does then stick with him and continune the evolution.  If it doesn't then get rid of him in the best trade scenario you can create.  Having him here for an open competition promises to bring out the worst, and having him here as a back-up is probably just as bad at this point.  Theismann had an ego and neither Jurgensen or Kilmer liked him ... but Jurgensen and Kilmer were established and good to great QBs.  RG3 sitting behind another junior unproven QB or an established journeyman veteran QB just plain isn't going to work.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

He's just not that good. Jeez! Why is that so hard so people to admit it??????

 

I admit it, but I still want them to stick with him.  He's not good right now.  He has the TALENT to DEVELOP into something good.  So, I admit he is not good now.  I don't admit he's incapable of being good with some consistency, hard work, and solid coaching.