MMQB: Diagnosing What Ails RG3

[amm0409]

With the way Griffin is playing right now he doesn't belong in the same conversation as romoSUCKS.

 

Everytime I type R.O.M.O it will say "romoSUCKS" because of ROMO Im glad he isnt on my team 

[Mr. Sinister]

If the main concern were something that I'd categorize as "dragging through the mud" I'd agree with you. But I think the biggest issue has moved from the dramatic accusation of RG3 being lousy at press conference or the rumor mill whispers that he isn't well liked by his teammates. The talk now seems to have settled on his actual play which is the type of criticism that any NFL player should expect. That isn't mud slinging. Fans won't love a bad QB starting for their football team.

Also I think that after Grudens comments the last thing RG3 needs to worry about are fans or media opinions. He seems a lot closer to losing his job than anybody would have imagined going into this season. He needs to play better and he needs to do so in a hurry.

Agreed, 100%.

I've defended him as much as anyone (mostly about stuff that has nothing to do with football), but at the end of the day, you've got to play well, or at the very least, not look like a hot mess out there. He did neither

[GibbsFactor]

Do you got a source? That sounds like literally the opposite of previous descriptions of him.

 

Is it?   We've all heard he's a hard worker.  But what have we seen him work at?  His physicality.    There has to be some truth to this. How else do you explain his complete and utter fish out of water playing style?

 

Taking 5 step drops when the play called for 3?  What the hell is that?

[PartyPosse]

No I'm a fan of patience. Quarterbacks take time to develop which is why you see so many sit on the bench for so long.

Fundamentals or not when you go through 2 major injuries, 2 head coaches including one who was more about preserving his own legacy than adding to it and then ask him to change the way he's played the game for many years, I think it's absurd to be that confident he's cooked.

Honestly as good as the first half of his career has been the second half has mirrored that in struggles. It's now as of the fan base wants to completely ignore what he did when he first came out or make as many excuses as to why the early success had nothig to do with him.

Fans used to go out of the way to support their team and the players on it. You may not like them but they are the athletes that dictate how your team does and you stand by them through thick and thin. I feel now the fan base has done a complete 180 and are now going out of there way to find ways to break him down. Everyone wants to find professional proof of their skepticism instead of sticking up for your team. The hatred for the media used to be a universal sentiment on this board and now it's as if the fans have started to cozy up to them becaus their hatred of the RG3 saga is so intense. I mean Peter King is actually getting love here for his breakdown of RG3. The same guy that wrote an article on why he would NEVER use the Redskins name in his blog again and was heavily scrutinized for it here and by the entire redskins fan base. Now fans have decided to use his words as gospel against RG3 because of hatred.

It's gotten to that point and in sick of it. You say I'm an apologist, I'm saying for good or bad I'm sticking up for the players who every Sunday go out there and put on the burgundy and gold and play the game for our enjoyment and frankly I used to enjoy the games a lot more before I made the mistake of joining this board filled with entitled know-it-alls who clearly don't know the first thing about supporting a team.

[skins4eva]

I like the open-mindedness of this but I think it give him this season to make it work.  If he does then stick with him and continune the evolution.  If it doesn't then get rid of him in the best trade scenario you can create.  Having him here for an open competition promises to bring out the worst, and having him here as a back-up is probably just as bad at this point.  Theismann had an ego and neither Jurgensen or Kilmer liked him ... but Jurgensen and Kilmer were established and good to great QBs.  RG3 sitting behind another junior unproven QB or an established journeyman veteran QB just plain isn't going to work.

 

That's fair.  I agree that having him as a backup may not make sense.  But, I'm thinking about the balance between his need for reps and his need to learn and absorb. Guys like Rodgers sat for years and learned the game.  Guys like Luck are a very rare breed, but he was groomed practically from birth to operate in a pro style offense.  Griffin was asked to rely on athleticism and not learn nuance.  He never needed to be comfortable in the pocket.  In college, he could simply do whatever he wanted on the field, that's how much more athletically gifted he was than most college players.  In the pros, everyone was a stud in college.  He now needs to really study and clean up all of the bad habits he's formed.  Those are extremely hard to undo under in live games. And again, I'm not sure it can be done.

[darrelgreenie]

He's just not that good. Jeez! Why is that so hard so people to admit it??????

So what happens if he plays well down the stretch?

Then should you unadmit that he's not any good?

Or maybe we should let it play out?

[Jumbo]

Hell, if you know football at all and aren't given over to a powerful pro RG3 BIAS (as I have/had, but was/am aware how much I "want" him to be "it"), the reams of film over time where he makes mistake (in his play) after mistake  add up to much more than can be excused by "even great vet QBs do that sometimes", "the o-line sux", and "Hassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssletttttttttttt" <William Shatner voice>.

 

All of which are true and very much matter.

 

But at this point, something is askew IMO with the perceptions of those who don't see too much serious player error that is squarely enough on RG3's shoulders (not talking about any of his "media issues" here, just on-the-field).

 

Ya don't have to ravage him in over-reaction all the time, which has been done in huge volume on message boards and other media, nor do you have to keep "excusing" him or minimizing the very serous and quite real topic of whether he's going to make it (and he was rightfully expected to make it BIG).

 

Whatever the reasons or faults impeding his progress that have been beyond Rg3's control, there is plenty observable to football eyes on film that show he can do a lot of things notably better than he does. And despite all the legit obstacles he's been dealt, he's been around the pro game long enough now to look better than he does, even given all the givens. 

 

I don't like even appearing as one of those "beating on the kid", and I see as well as most folks all the bull**** he's had dumped on him by being in DC and with this organization.

 

Doesn't change what I see on film, consistently. No way am I tossing in the towel on him, but at some point I think we'd all be more "correct" as Redskins fans to sing it like "I got 99 problems and RG3 is one"....for now.

[88Comrade2000]

I say we temporally rename the board- ExtremeRG3.

 

 

Robert wants to have a successful and long NFL career; he needs to stop worrying about what others think of him.  If what Shanny and other coaches told Young is true; then Robert needs to put in the time as all successful QBs.  Finally, he needs to do his best not to get injured.

 

 

Robert needs to show something the rest of this year for the coaches not to draft someone next year. No, Robert won't be replaced next year but if he doesn't show something the rest of this season; this team will bring in someone to compete for the starting job. Robert weill then have to earn the starting job and stay healthy the entire year. 2015; he must show he is a franchise QB.

 

If not, then he is done with us and will not be on the roster in 2016.

 

I would bench Robert for one game, maybe that will wake him up.

 

If Robert hasn't shown anything by the end of next year or if he misses significant time; the Skins will be going in a new direction in 2016.

 

My gut feeling still is that in 2016; Snyder starts over again with a new GM type person, new head coach, new GM, etc.. 

[SouthsideDC]

  Guys like Luck are a very rare breed, but he was groomed practically from birth to operate in a pro style offense.  

Luck is a talent and It also helps that Indy brought in his College Offensive coordinator to be the Offensive Coordinator in Indy and they just run the same offense and terminology he has played in his college career.  They also drafted his college TE (Fleener) another guy that he is already comfortable with. That team understood what they needed to do to help their QB succeed and set him up for greatness.

[coolbeans]

Do you got a source? That sounds like literally the opposite of previous descriptions of him.

 

Maybe descriptions from 2012 but not since.  His 2012 success seemed to go to his head and he felt he had already arrived.  Since then its been all downhill starting with blaming the coaches for letting him play injured.  All you have to do is watch him play to realize he is not prepared like an NFL QB needs to be.  He is not the same player he was in 2012 and there are probably many reasons for it.  Injury, ego, thin skin, constantly changing scheme, me first attitude that has set in, lack of prep work, dissatisfaction with coaching, lack of talent around him, you name it but no one who watches the skins can deny his play has plummeted since 2012 and he has to take most of the blame for that.  Only then can he figure out what it really takes to be successful in the NFL and get himself back on that track.

[skins4eva]

Remember when Ramsey was a young kid and would stay in the pocket?

Then he got hit so much that he basically couldn't play anymore, was suffering from type of post-spurrior tramatic stress syndrome?

Griffin to me is the same.

He's never recovered mentally or emotionally from his second ACL. He might be there physically. But what's going on between the ears has taken many steps backwards.

 

You many not remember watching (or perhaps never watched) Ramsey at Tulane.  But, he got knocked around like a ragdoll in college.  He was on some terrible teams.  Not the same thing as what we are seeing with RGIII, with due respect.

[Brokenstriker]

So what happens if he plays well down the stretch?

Then should you unadmit that he's not any good?

Or maybe we should let it play out?

if he does ... then sure.  How much of the altogether too short NFL seasons does he get to suck the life out of until it has "played out?"  8 games in a row and counting ... 1 and a half seasons and counting ...

[Brokenstriker]

 

I don't like even appearing as one of those "beating on the kid", and I see as well as most folks all the bull**** he's had dumped on him by being in DC and with this organization.

I think you over compensated ... I can't think of an NFL fan base who wouldn't be dissatisfied and outspoken about it if their franchise QB was 3 - 16 since 2012 and especially not when he is displaying weaknesses in his play that you are, quite correctly I beleive, pointing out.  Redskins fans are not substantially bad fans ... in fact I'd say we are as good as anyone and better than most especially in some regards.

[skins4eva]

Luck is a talent and It also helps that Indy brought in his College Offensive coordinator to be the Offensive Coordinator in Indy and they just run the same offense and terminology he has played in his college career.  They also drafted his college TE (Fleener) another guy that he is already comfortable with. That team understood what they needed to do to help their QB succeed and set him up for greatness.

 

That's all true, but I think it's an apples and oranges comparison when looking at RGIII.  Luck had a skill set coming out of college that clearly needed some refinement for the pro game, but the baseline skills were set in stone.  Not true with RGIII.  He was in a gimmicky college system in a weak conference and relied to a great extent on his athletic ability.  His mechanics, footwork, etc., weren't geared toward a pocket offense.  He's being asked to learn all of this at the most difficult level after having gone through major injuries and coaching changes.  Add to that the fact that it may just be too much, and you get what we are all now witnessing on the field.  The off the field antics are not nearly as significant to me, as others have said, as what we are all seeing with our eyes on the field: poor mechanics, errant throws, bad decision making, confusion and all around horrific QB play.  

 

The question is where do we go from here.  Gruden's options are limited.  Start RGIII and hope that he can make enough meaningful progress during the remainder of the season to serve as a real building block for 2015 or throw in the towel and stick either Kirk or Colt back out there.  All of these QBs have significant flaws.  At this point, the only real rational decision is to go with RGIII.  He's our biggest investment, and we need to use this time to see whether there's potential to earn dividends.  The next 6 games should tell us a lot.  I'm not optimistic at possible results, but I'm curious to see what he and Gruden are made of.  Will Gruden fold in other concepts to try and make him more comfortable as Kyle did?  Perhaps that's part of the answer at this stage, to try and simplify the offense for him out of a few sets so that he knows what's coming on most plays.  

[planter]

I'm glad you asked...

RGIII definitely needs to improve his pocket skills...if only he had a pocket to work with...Catch 22

Pocket awareness....peripheral vision...don't flee, step up into that theoretical pocket...go through you progressions as if you had the time to do that.....on the rare occasions your coaches/receivers recognize the need to throw and receive short, uptempo and "hot-read" passes, do that too. And listen to Sonny and "read those defenses". It's just that simple <sarcasm> !

Then fake the handoff on the read option run for 60 yard touchdown & throw the world the finger.

[brandymac27]

I'm standing by my earlier post that said i think his problems are more mental than anything right now, even though physically he isn't the same due to injuries.

But...if what Steve young is saying is true, it really pisses me off because Robert has all the time in the world to rant on social media, film commercials, documentaries, etc, but he can't find time to put in effort in studying film?

That says one of a few things to me. 1- he thinks his way is the right way, and he won't humble himself enough to take advice from coaches telling him he needs to put in the work. Or...

2- he just doesn't care. He cares more about his "brand" (which will be non existant soon anyway because of how he's been playing), and thinks he's already made it big, so there's no need for him to do anything but collect a paycheck.

Of course i could be wrong, but if I'm not, neither situation above is good and I'd rather cut our losses and move on if he doesn't turn it around these last few games.

[darrelgreenie]

if he does ... then sure.  How much of the altogether too short NFL seasons does he get to suck the life out of until it has "played out?"  8 games in a row and counting ... 1 and a half seasons and counting ...

So in order to not have a 'pro-Griffin' bias I'm supposed to sit here and read this bull I guess.

8 games in a row he's been sucking the life out? Lol.

 

Griffin has played what 13 quarters of football under Jay and he's now a bust?

Um sure. Okay. Welcome to crazy town.

 

If its so clear to that Griffin isn't the guy then why doesn't Jay just bench the bum?

[darrelgreenie]

WHY CAN'T WE JUST LET IT PLAY OUT?

 

Without having to hear all the moans and groans?

Especially since Griffin could still end up as the QB next year.

How sour will his venomous detractors be IF Griffin is still around?

Will every missed pass get blown out proportion?

 

Instead of having a freakin meltdown any time the kid doesn't play well.

And to be clear whenever the kid isn't perfect he sucks.

Griffin had a bad game but that shouldn't call for this level of over reaction.

Sunday was his first really bad game and it still wasn't a bad as some of Cousin's bad games but Griffin receives an overboard amount of vitriol. After some of Cousin poor performance people we're championing Cousin's even more.

 

There is virtually no support for Griffin on this board and his play doesn't warrant the lack of support.

 

SMH ~13 quarter referendum.

[martytheman]

More media spin to drive clicks.  You can pick screencaps from any game to show that a QB doesn't know what he's doing.  

 

"Look, here's a frame where Aaron Rogers doesn't see a wide-open WR.  He's terrible."  Take a screenshot from a second later when he turns his head, and he looks like an all-pro.

 

Not buying this.

 

except for that little issue of Rogers has thrown more TD passes in pretty much all of his games than RG3 has all season, you're dead on, man.

[martytheman]

WHY CAN'T WE JUST LET IT PLAY OUT?

 

Without having to hear all the moans and groans?

Especially since Griffin could still end up as the QB next year.

How sour will his venomous detractors be IF Griffin is still around?

Will every missed pass get blown out proportion?

 

Instead of having a freakin meltdown any time the kid doesn't play well.

And to be clear whenever the kid isn't perfect he sucks.

Griffin had a bad game but that shouldn't call for this level of over reaction.

Sunday was his first really bad game and it still wasn't a bad as some of Cousin's bad games but Griffin receives an overboard amount of vitriol. After some of Cousin poor performance people we're championing Cousin's even more.

 

There is virtually no support for Griffin on this board and his play doesn't warrant the lack of support.

 

SMH ~13 quarter referendum.

 

maybe you have your head buried too deeply in metrics and haven't been watching the last 16 games he's played in... 13 quarters is hardly the case, more like 64 quarter referendum.

the guy has been terrible overall.. he's had some good moments but overall has not looked like the guy worth 2 firsts and a second.

how you guys can't see that and insist that it's everyone else with the problem, but not Griffin because, "look at his stats!" is beyond me.

 

 

and yes before you decide to get all literal to the letter, some of that was hyperbolic, and yes I know you didn't say look at his stats or these metrics this time, but that is your normal recourse when talking about anything regarding a player being "good" or "bad"

[dsciambi]

 

If its so clear to that Griffin isn't the guy then why doesn't Jay just bench the bum?

 

You're assuming Jay can bench him.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I understand that Griffin had a bad game, and that he hasn't done himself any favors with handling the media.

 

But, he's only played in 3 games under a new HC/OC in a new system.  I would've hoped, like everyone (I assume most people want him to play well, not so sure anymore) that he would be further along in his development at this point.  Sunday was certainly a step back.

 

Did we not know there would be growing pains this year?  Could that be what this is?  Growing pains with Gruden/Griffin/social media that they will emerge from having learned lessons that will help them on and off the field?  I have to think it's at least a possibility.

 

The pitchfork mentality is borderline disturbing.  I don't understand how it would make any sense to bench Griffin at this point.  Moving on from him after 3 games in a new offense?  Whether he turns it around or not, I think it would be a big mistake to paint ourselves into a corner that we might not able to get out of later on.  If we bench Griffin, our fate is sealed.  However, if we play him and it doesn't work out, we will wind up in the same spot that we would if we bench him.  This is why I don't see any upside in sending him to the pine.

 

Griffin has lost all his confidence.  I hope that Jay/McVay can put together a good plan for him against the Niners that can help him get back on track.  Another 5+ sack, low QBR outing will make this place even more unbearable. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

hi

 

I think you're missing an important unstated condition in the 4 - 5 years to develop a college QB into a good NFL QB.  The unstated assumption is that the individual can and will develop into a good NFL QB.  Also your conclusion implies two things that I also take exception to ... that there is no indication that this development will succeed until it succeeds (i.e., you can't correctly conclude that an individual will not develop into an NFL QB until you have given them 4 - 5 years) ... and ... that this development requires playing 4 -5 seasons of NFL games as a less than good QB as opposed to being an understudy for a major portion of those 4 - 5 years like most of the old school QBs did. 

 

Not every candidate will develop into a good NFL QB including former NCAA superstars (long list of examples).  This end case does not required 4 - 5 years to conclude its not going to work  I'm pretty sure that the NFL wisdom on this subject is that *if a candidate is a good candidate and does develop his skills ... *then it takes this individual 4 - 5 years to arrive as a good NFL quarterback.  I'm sure that professional talent assessors (coaches, etc.) at the NFL level can assess the progress and limitations of this development and relably conclude that the candidate has a good chance to becoming good ... or doesn't.

 I never said anyone will turn into a great, good or bad qb. I am trying to say that with the price you paid you have to give Robert the chance. Hell, how long and how many chances did we give Jason Campbell and after we felt there was no hope and cut him the Raiders tried. In the NFL the hardest position to pick in the draft is the QB so if you spent a fortune on him you want to make sure you don't cut him loose until you know he will not make it.

[dsciambi]

I understand that Griffin had a bad game, and that he hasn't done himself any favors with handling the media.

 

But, he's only played in 3 games under a new HC/OC in a new system.  I would've hoped, like everyone (I assume most people want him to play well, not so sure anymore) that he would be further along in his development at this point.  Sunday was certainly a step back.

 

Did we not know there would be growing pains this year?  Could that be what this is?  Growing pains with Gruden/Griffin/social media that they will emerge from having learned lessons that will help them on and off the field?  I have to think it's at least a possibility.

 

How many years will "rust" or "growing pains" be an acceptable excuse for Griffin though? Everyone said the same thing last year.

 

2013: "He's just coming off an ACL injury, we need to give him the whole year."

2014 preseason: "It was his first full offseason. Plus, we were vanilla."

2014: "He's in a new system, he needs more time."

 

And yet, McCoy and Cousins come off the bench with absolutely no prep (no first team reps whatsoever) and look like capable quarterbacks. They certainly have issues, but none of this "1 step on a 3 step drop" crap that RG3 does.

[88Comrade2000]

I misunderstood Griffin's contract, if what MMQG says is correct:

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/11/18/robert-griffin-iii-jay-gruden-washington-problems/?xid=aol_home&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl33|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D565877

 

The rest of this season decides Griffin's long term fate.  We have to decide by May 3, whether to pick up the option on 2016 where Griffin will be due $18.4 in 2016.  Sure we can still get rid of him after 2015; but how much of that 18.4 will Griffin be able to get?

 

Can someone clarify Robert's contract?