Lets just lay the cards out. Do you believe Griffin is still our savior?

[Taco Bell]

Well, everything I said about RG3 since the Ravens preseason game is still holding true, and after all the tar and feathering I received from various posters, including some with very high post counts and what I would consider "solid" reputations, I feel very confident in everything I ever said and stood by.

 

I don't need to go into any of the major mistakes RG3 showed yesterday, they are self evident and luckily many people have called him out on these things already.

 

The main one that bothers me in the short term more than any other, is his horrendous footwork when leaving the pocket.  The throw he made to helu near the end of the game on the left sideline, cut to a front shot of RG3, and it showed his legs literally gangling from side to side in an extremely awkward "strafe" motion.  If RG3 doesn't want to injure himself on a non-contact injury (which sort of happened already in that Jaguars play), he better get his leg control in order fast.  That type of awkward strafe is just begging for a cleat to get caught in the grass and have his knee bend perpendicular to how it's supposed to.  Also, that throw on the "5th and 6" showed bad footwork that led to an armthrow at a pivotal moment in the game which left his "elite arm strength" little to show for it since that's what the "consistent mechanics and footwork" is for.  What a terrible thing to say about RG3 before the Texans game, sheesh.

 

Also, I've cross referenced a bunch of posters who are currently defending RG3's performance in a loss to MIN by virtue of "doing enough on O to win,"  and I've counted 3 prominent posters thus far who actually said the exact opposite in posts right after the Eagles game.  "Kirk has to straight up get it done and he didn't" posts.  Same exact situation, road games, both have "excuses" to be rusty, one scored more than the other, one is the 1st teamer, the other is a backup, so close enough, with the extenuating circumstances falling in Kirk's favor overall, yet the defense is completely hypocritical.  Unfair to posters that were laughed at for criticizing RG3.

 

I dunno, RG3 has to get better, and fast, straight up.  Everything outside of our team broke in our favor yesterday, we NEEDED that win to be in the thick of it.  Now we have 0 games to lose, and have to run the table.  4-5 going into the Bye with Foles out, DAL loss, SF loss, and either the giants or Colts losing tonight would have had us right back in it. 

 

Also, don't extrapolate (which is why my posts get long because I like to make sure I have angles covered) this post into thinking I don't think the OL needs extreme help, I have posts clearly stating that we need a 1st round OL, and either 2 or a 3 (or both even) used on OL next years draft.  Or, that I don't think Haslett should be fired right now (I literally keep checking to see if he's fired "yet" ). 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

  Everything outside of our team broke in our favor yesterday, we NEEDED that win to be in the thick of it.  

 

Also, don't extrapolate (which is why my posts get long because I like to make sure I have angles covered) this post into thinking I don't think the OL needs extreme help, I have posts clearly stating that we need a 1st round OL, and either 2 or a 3 (or both even) used on OL next years draft.  Or, that I don't think Haslett should be fired right now (I literally keep checking to see if he's fired "yet" ). 

 

Everything broke in our favor yesterday?  Started with the bus crash then the rumors.    The defense stunk and created no turnovers. Pierre Garcon dropped a perfectly thrown deep ball.  The O line did nothing special. This was in my view the opposite of everything broke in our favor.  

 

RG3 was called on to put the team on his back.  This wasn't a game where things were handed to him far from it.   Wasn't like Colt against Dallas where the defense was balling and creating turnovers and stopping the opposition in key drives. And where 17 points in regulation time was enough.

 

In the 2nd half, the Vikings could score at will and with time killing drives. The Vikings defense is stellar. They lead the NFC in sacks. That defense stopped Drew Brees and Matt Safford much better than the could RG3.  Rg3 scored on 50% on the drives.   Yeah its disappointing he couldn't do it on the last drive.  But RG3 has shown that he could pull it out of the hat late in games multiple times.  

 

As for Cousins some people were talking him up like he was Peyton Manning after the Eagles game.  That last drive in that game was considered the disclaimer -- not the whole analysis -- with some people cautioning saying lets see if he can do it with the game on the line.  No one said, one strike dude and you are out.  It was after seeing Cousins implode against the Giants in the 2nd half and the Cardinals -- that's when a pattern emerged.  

 

Back to RG3, he played decently against a superb defense with little help.  And, there isn't a player, not even Brady who pulls it out every time in the clutch.  Heck if RG3 fails to come thru in the next couple of games with the game on the line, then a pattern emerges.  It would be a new pattern because we've seen game winning drives from RG3 in 2012 AND 2013. 

[Taco Bell]

Did you not see that I wrote "outside of our team" literally to begin that sentence?  Talk about looking for something to get mad about.

 

---------

 

The edit is because the rest of this post came after that initial obvious oversight.

 

See, the problem with your defense of the Cousins criticism is that I am talking about people that criticized Cousins directly after the Eagles game for "straight up not getting it done."  Not after the giants game, there is a massive difference there.

 

I'm talking about a specific post game defense of a player after a long layoff where pro RG3 posters destroyed Cousins, but RG3 gets his pass.  And no, posts that I am referring to are actually saying that everything he did was for naught, it was not a forgivable offense to screw up on the final drive.  I know there are posters that did what you said, but not everyone did that,  I'm not talking about them, some actually said it was "unforgivable" yet are giving RG3 his pass. 

 

------------------------

 

Also, no one made cousins out to be Peyton Manning.  People said that he was better at being a "pocket QB" than RG3 and extrapolated that he could have a better long term future than RG3.  I'll even look myself at any posters who I think "might" have said such a thing to see if they were implying as much, but honestly, I don't remember anyone other than the random 50 post person that might have said anything that extreme.  But I'll look. 

 

Also, just to use your Peyton Manning type reference, a problem with alot of people around here is that they talk about 2014 RG3 like he's 2012 RG3.  There is a massive number of additional factors he has to overcome with all these built up obstacles both mentally and physically since the magic of 2012.  He has years of game tape against him, people aren't scared to blitz him, people "dare" him to beat him with his arm, he's much more figured out than he was then.  I don't think he's as in love with this franchise anymore, considering how neutered he's become, especially after 2013, and also, he's 0-2 this season, with a borderline non-contact injury sandwiched in between.  

 

------

 

He's gotta start winning games.  The extenuating circumstances are running out. He might be here 1.5 or 2.5 more years, but it's gonna be an extremely rough stretch if our team keeps losing. 

---------------------------

 

Also, praising the Vikings D about being this young great D after the fact is weak too, people on this MB were literally making fun of the fact that people claimed the MIN D was more talented than our O, yet now people come back and say in hindsight "Jeez this D is great."

----

 

Just like how the HOU game people said their D was tremendous, yet here they are 4-5 after giving up 30, 30, and 28 in their games. 

 

----------------

 

I never said his career was over, but if people don't want to "lose for draft picks" then RG3's gotta get better, and fast, right?

 

Also, I need to reiterate yet again I want 2 top 3 picks used on the OL, and I also would want Haslett fired, so none of this "all on RG3" nonsense.  I'm not that simplistic.

[DogofWar1]

What does "outside of our team" mean?  You said everything broke in our favor outside of our team, well the team is sort of the main thing there...so we didn't get any breaks in our favor?

 

All we got in terms of breaks was MINN getting penalized.  As they should have.

 

But other than that?

 

Amerson's INT gets ruled not one, the non-INT for MINN gets ruled one, Garcon misses a bread basket catch, defense created no turnovers, and no pressure.

 

MINN got more breaks than we did, I dare say, or at least, they got the bigger ones.  They got away with one turnover, and then managed to keep another turnover they didn't make.  Those two completely shifted the momentum of the game.

 

Moreover, they got a huge break in the form of Jim Haslett.  Our D allowed them to take the lead over us after we'd recaptured it twice in the 2nd half.

[TheButler]

"Everything outside of our team broke in our favor yesterday,"

 

The outside of our team part was important in understanding the sentence.

[RED06]

Well, everything I said about RG3 since the Ravens preseason game is still holding true, and after all the tar and feathering I received from various posters, including some with very high post counts and what I would consider "solid" reputations, I feel very confident in everything I ever said and stood by.

 

I don't need to go into any of the major mistakes RG3 showed yesterday, they are self evident and luckily many people have called him out on these things already.

 

The main one that bothers me in the short term more than any other, is his horrendous footwork when leaving the pocket.  The throw he made to helu near the end of the game on the left sideline, cut to a front shot of RG3, and it showed his legs literally gangling from side to side in an extremely awkward "strafe" motion.  If RG3 doesn't want to injure himself on a non-contact injury (which sort of happened already in that Jaguars play), he better get his leg control in order fast.  That type of awkward strafe is just begging for a cleat to get caught in the grass and have his knee bend perpendicular to how it's supposed to.  Also, that throw on the "5th and 6" showed bad footwork that led to an armthrow at a pivotal moment in the game which left his "elite arm strength" little to show for it since that's what the "consistent mechanics and footwork" is for.  What a terrible thing to say about RG3 before the Texans game, sheesh.

 

Also, I've cross referenced a bunch of posters who are currently defending RG3's performance in a loss to MIN by virtue of "doing enough on O to win,"  and I've counted 3 prominent posters thus far who actually said the exact opposite in posts right after the Eagles game.  "Kirk has to straight up get it done and he didn't" posts.  Same exact situation, road games, both have "excuses" to be rusty, one scored more than the other, one is the 1st teamer, the other is a backup, so close enough, with the extenuating circumstances falling in Kirk's favor overall, yet the defense is completely hypocritical.  Unfair to posters that were laughed at for criticizing RG3.

 

I dunno, RG3 has to get better, and fast, straight up.  Everything outside of our team broke in our favor yesterday, we NEEDED that win to be in the thick of it.  Now we have 0 games to lose, and have to run the table.  4-5 going into the Bye with Foles out, DAL loss, SF loss, and either the giants or Colts losing tonight would have had us right back in it. 

 

Also, don't extrapolate (which is why my posts get long because I like to make sure I have angles covered) this post into thinking I don't think the OL needs extreme help, I have posts clearly stating that we need a 1st round OL, and either 2 or a 3 (or both even) used on OL next years draft.  Or, that I don't think Haslett should be fired right now (I literally keep checking to see if he's fired "yet" ). 

Taco Bell with all due respect, it was not the same with Kirk game against Philly man. I don't want to have debates about these Qb's anymore. All I will say is RG3 played well for his first game back and he just didn't get it done at the end of the game. I can't say he isn't clutch, because I've seen him come through in the clutch before. Not so yesterday.

 

The defense helped Kirk with GREAT field position at the end of that game man. And they got the needed stop to get the ball back to the offense with just 10yds to get a field goal. We DIDN'T move the ball 1 yd. The defense gave up 3 TD's in the second half and RG3 answered ALL of them. Then the defense gave up the last TD............I have nothing else to say on this subject. It's draining at this point.

[BTBIRD 227]

I am somewhat on the fence about the vote. I am half and half on RG staying or going. you have to give the nod to RG III because of injuries, and granted I did not watch the game because I am in Florida. So I can not give a fair evaluation on his play from yesterdays game, but we have seen enough games to get the sense he is not comfortable standing in the pocket and RG III still takes way to much vicious shots to his legs and body.So for now I say stick with RGIII.Hail

[Taylor703]

Taco Bell

How are the Cousins vs. Eagles and RGIII vs Vikings final drives similar in any way? Cousins was handed the ball, ten yards from field goal range against a defense that was getting gashed all day long. Griffin was asked to drive the length of the field against a top 10 defense who's currently second in the league in sacks. Not to mention a lot of us said Cousins wasn't the reason we lost that game. Griffin played well enough to win just like Kirk did against the Eagles however the defense undermined them both. If you want to continue crushing Griffin, be my guest. The QB is not the reason we lost yesterday.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

^^And Griffin was faced with a 1st and 20 after offensive PI. Not nearly similar situations or the same challenge to overcome.

However, he still had the ball with a WR open on 4th and 6 so I put that on him. He had to deliver the same way Cousins had to in Philly. But I can acknowledge the differences in their scenarios

[Commander -JB-]

This fan base (not pointing at you specifically mojo) is pathetic. So many people made their minds up long ago on RG3 and will throw any type of **** at the wall to see what sticks, in order to push their agenda.

BS. The pathetic fans are those fans who actually believe in this organization. That actually look at the Redskins with Rose colored glasses & think there's a tiny bit of chance for this organization, under Snyder, to magically become consistent winners. This isn't about RG3. This has always been about the handling of RG3 & the fact that they might as well fire Gruden today & appoint Griffin as head coach. Look, Bruce Allen is just another yes man to Dan Snyder. That much is plain to see. It didn't work with Cerrato & it won't work with Allen. This team is a doormat. They are going nowhere under Snyder. The blame game is painful to watch under Snyder. Fans up in arms with Haslett & want him canned & rightfully so. However, Snyder wanted Gruden from the get go. He had Allen interview a slew of candidates who never had a shot at the job. That's why Morris & Haslett/McVay stayed on & weren't fired. It's a Tampa Bay reunion!! What a joke. That is the pathetic part, not the fan base that rebels against Snyder & his horrendous reign as owner. We want him out & rightfully so.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

RG3 was out of gas on the final drive....it's why they had to take a timeout on 4th down....the guy hasn't played in 6 weeks.

 

I'm just amazed at the criticism RG3 is getting.....everyone is nitpicking his mistakes.....he made a handful of mistakes, but made far more positive plays.....he gets a B+ from me.

 

For all the haters who talk about the lack of sacks Cousins took, just remember that Gruden said that Kirk often threw the ball too early....no wonder he never got sacked....throwing too early or throwing INT's

[Bang]

I say yes.

he has all the physical tools. 

the problems as i see them are fixable problems.

 

1. Confidence issue. he's a hot and cold guy... adversity tends to make him underperform it seems. he needs to forget outside distractions and recognize that he can lead. He might even do that now, but he doesn't give the impression of it.

 

2. Pocket awareness..  this is correctible. he needs to work on his footwork and continue working on moving quickly through his progressions and throwing it. which brings me to 3..

 

3. throwing it. he can wing it. throw it on a dime. beautiful deep ball.. the fly to Desean yesterday was gorgeous,, hit him so perfectly in stride it looked like it settled into DJax's hands like a feather pillow. Beautiful throw. he dropped another one rght down Garcon's chimney while he was well covered.. dropped.
but he seems to get into mind-funks that cause him to hesitate on everything else. He holds the ball too long. I know our OL isn't the best, but he gets himself into trouble. I'm no QB and i can't see the whole 22, but nobody covers that well so much that one of our guys isn't breaking somewhere.
I think it goes back to #1 in that as his confidence lags, he tends to not see what constitutes as NFL "open" and tries too hard to not make a mistake. 

the INT before the half I think played into his head. he became conservative after that..  he's got to shake off adversity and let the ball fly, especially when the play isn't perfect and things look tight. Put it in it's spot and let the receiver make a play.. Get a short memory.

 

All of these are correctible, IMO, and I believe he's a hard worker. I think the majority of his work from here on out ought to be on maturing a bit, blocking out distractions, and stop carrying the weight of the world when things aren't easy. Concentrate on the mental aspect of the game and the physical will flow right to it. the arm knows what to do, The head needs to learn when and where..

 

I'm confident he can do it if he's given time to develop a proper relationship with a coach who can develop his talent.

 

~Bang

[mike42]

Be honest....

 

Is it possible that some if not all of the sacks the Redskins gave up was sacks on created by RGIII? You can't say they're coverage sacks can you? If so, what you're saying is that somehow in this game, Djax, Garcon and Reed was not able to get separation in this game?  

 

Really? You believe that? 

 

I think I know what happened....

 

Maybe, RGIII studies his reads too long. Maybe, he bypasses quick open short gains to a playmaker for the "big play" and ends up getting sacked. Maybe the only why he sees the field is when the play breaks down (which over time is a recipe for disasterous results).

 

Look...here's a sample of a game QB'd by RGIII. Stats are irrevelant if situational football is not present:

 

RGIII throws an Int. with a minute left in the first half - momentum shift to the Vikings. He turns around in the very first drive after halftime and takes a 13 yard sack on third down (holding the ball while drifting backwards) - more momentum to the home team that is also fighting to win a game. The Vikings get a short field with momentum that is created by RGIII's play and score a go-ahead TD.  

Two plays involving bad situational football on the part of RGIII, results in a 14 point swing. Yes the defense could have held. But we have a "franchise" QB that is not suppose to be a part of the problem. A franchise provides solutions - winning solutions.

The defense should have held. You should take your anger and redirect it at the defense because they blew this game. It's that simple. Many teams win by scoring 26 points.

 

I'm not sure how it's RG3's fault when drives ended when Morris was stuffed for a loss, the causal oline implosion causing a sack (he had no time), and Roberts/Garcon all dropped catchable passes that ended those drives. That's just 4 drives I can randomly think of.

 

RG3's int caused the "momentum" to swing in the Vikings favor? You believe that? Funny because our offense looked more complete in the 2nd half. Problem in the 2nd half was once Bridgewater figured out how to throw to wide open guys, it was history.

 

As I mentioned before, RG3 made mistakes. To be fair, he did hold on to the ball too long on a few plays, but not many. 2 point conversion play was his worst decision of the game. But RG3 isn't the top 5 reasons why we lost this game.

[Taco Bell]

Taco Bell

How are the Cousins vs. Eagles and RGIII vs Vikings final drives similar in any way? Cousins was handed the ball, ten yards from field goal range against a defense that was getting gashed all day long. Griffin was asked to drive the length of the field against a top 10 defense who's currently second in the league in sacks. Not to mention a lot of us said Cousins wasn't the reason we lost that game. Griffin played well enough to win just like Kirk did against the Eagles however the defense undermined them both. If you want to continue crushing Griffin, be my guest. The QB is not the reason we lost yesterday.

 

First off, thanks to TheButler for acknowledging such a basic aspect of that sentence... Seriously, when I said everything "outside the team," I mean all the teams that needed to lose either lost, DAL and SF or suffered a key injury like PHI.  And, either the Colts or NYG have to lose tonight.  Uhh, of course the team is what matters most, I'm talking about the outside factors that would have made that MIN victory so much bigger.  Come on, seriously, nothing else to say about such a basic statement.

 

And again, if you didn't really read what I said, I'm talking specifically about posters that said "straight up he didn't get it done because the game was in his hands and didn't finish it off."  

 

If you didn't say that, then I'm not talking about you, I made that also, obvious, distinction (formerly discrepancy, lol).  Anyone who said the D was at fault, even partially, I'm not referring to.  I made it explicit that I am talking about people that said it was on Cousins entirely, and then said gave RG3 a pass for this game.  This point is more about the unfair crap that people just say nonchalantly about anyone who ever said anything negative about RG3.  "What nitpickers" "what haters" "what character assassinators" "let the kid live" etc.  Do "anti-RG3" people, which is also a questionable term, since criticizing him equates to being "anti" as opposed to criticizing his obviously not perfect play, have such easy and common found terminology used for "pro-RG3" people?  You don't see anywhere near as many "RG3 ass kissers" "RG3 back rubbers" "RG3 apologists" as you do the reverse.  It's because, most people criticizing RG3 are criticizing RG3, not the posters in addition.  This is why I make that distinction between people who blatantly and unequivocally have a double standard about defending RG3, vs those who at the very least put a "partial" amount of blame on to the defense in that Eagles game in particular.  I also made the distinction that it was before the Giants game, because at that point most of the MB, myself included, acknowledged that any hint of Cousins keeping this job was over.

 

And also, what does the similarity of the final drive on a per play comparison have anything to do with eachother when they both ended in a failure to score?  Like, the odds of both these drives playing out in the exact same way is probably 1 out of 1 billion, because plays would have to be exact, and INTs would have to contextually be exact.  They both ended in a failure to convert.  This is a small example of trying to even make a failed drive by RG3 still seem "better" than Cousins' failed drive.  Rg3 had 5 downs to get a first down and couldn't do that. Cousins threw an INT.  What's the difference?   RG3 had an equally as backbreaking INT at the end of the 1st half, so if you are gonna make it sound like Cousins' final drive was worse than RG3's final drive, then I'll just re-raise you that. 

 

Bottom line is, RG3 has to get better, and fast.  I never "overly" criticize RG3, this is more an issue on this MB, and a topic like this, in particular, about RG3 being a "savior" which highlights this issue.  People that say "no," much like any other person that says something negative about RG3, get alot of unfair criticism thrown their way and as we can see, we just lost again with him starting, so he's not perfect, but we also aren't allowed to say things bad about him apparently. 

[ChicagoRedskinsFan]

Besides the diminished play-making ability with his legs, what happened to the clutch performer we saw in 2012? RG3 made several huge 3rd and 4th down conversions either en route to a 4th quarter comeback, or to clinch a win that was hanging in the balance. His poise under pressure amazed me as much as anything he did that year. Contrast that with the RG3 we saw yesterday, who had the opportunity to convert a 4th and 6 with a very makeable throw, and he throws it into the ground - game over. If he completes it, there's a decent chance we tie or maybe even win the game on the final drive. I'm not blaming the loss on RG3, just like I wouldn't blame the Eagles loss on Cousins. In both cases the offense generated up to that point should have been sufficient to win, if not for failures elsewhere. But regardless of how those situations came to be, the QB had a reasonable chance to tie or win the game on the final drive, and instead the game ends because of unforced errors. Cousins is a backup, but we expect more from the franchise QB. I don't think this game would have ended this way with the "old" RG3 at the helm. Aren't rookies the ones who are supposed to be more mistake prone? Was it beginners luck or was he just more relaxed because it would have been "ok" if he struggled his rookie year? In any case, a couple more plays by RG3 yesterday could have put a positive spin on his comeback and the 2014 season as we headed into the bye and we could have had visions of 2012 dancing in our head. Instead, it's the usual doldrums.

[Tazhog]

How long will everyone believe in RG3's potential? No, I am a non believer in Robert Griffin... That out pattern before half time and the 4th down flop pass to 88 were ridiculous!

[Cooleyfan1993]

How long will everyone believe in RG3's potential? No, I am a non believer in Robert Griffin... That out pattern before half time and the 4th down flop pass to 88 were ridiculous!

so...you're a non-believer in RG3, yet you compliment 2 passes that he made? if you're a non-believer, wouldnt you be saying bad things about him?

[Conn]

so...you're a non-believer in RG3, yet you compliment 2 passes that he made? if you're a non-believer, wouldnt you be saying bad things about him?

Think you might have misread that one. Those were his two really bad throws.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Think you might have misread that one. Those were his two really bad throws.

oh, i thought by "ridiculous" you meant good. like "man that **** is ridiculous yo!".

that changes things entirely

[Dan T.]

so...you're a non-believer in RG3, yet you compliment 2 passes that he made? if you're a non-believer, wouldnt you be saying bad things about him?

 

 

He's talking about the INT and the last pass of the game.  Of course, he's ignoring the bombs to DJax, the other perfect bomb to Garcon that went through his arms, the Houdini like escape/29 yard pass/run to Helu early, the improvement of Alfred Morris due to RG3's presence on the field, etc.

 

RG3 made mistakes Sunday. The INT and the last pass were bad.  He continues to hesitate in the pocket, contributing to sacks.  But to write him off is simply ridiculous.  You could tell some of these people that Robert was driving the lead bus Sunday and they would believe you.

[Destino]

Remember Jason Cambell? It seemed like we kept waiting forever for his development. Another running QB who failed to pick up pocket presence. Same problems I'm seeing with RG3. Which is why I'm worried. Everyone wants to ditch Cousins or McCoy cause it makes RG3 feel bad but RG3 is not showing he is making strides.

Jason Campbell was a running quarterback?

[HAILSKINSNYC]

I keep hearing how non clutch RG3 was yesterday......I guess scoring on 3 straight possessions in the 2nd half isn't that clutch.....what a scrub

[TheGoodBits]

Jason Campbell was a running quarterback?

Uhh yeah. He was black. Clearly a running QB.

[TheItalianStallion]

So he puts up over 260 yards and a 70% comp rate in game 1, got off to a great start in week 2, and puts up over 250 yards and 26 points against a top 5 pass D, yet there's all this criticism. As I said after week 1, I can't even imagine how much criticism there'll be when he actually has a bad game.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Jason Campbell was a running quarterback?

fixed it for you