Lets just lay the cards out. Do you believe Griffin is still our savior?

[TheButler]

How about sacks? Where are those numbers? Because that would be an indication of which defensive line is more disruptive, which is what matters here because of our suspect offensive line. 

above your post

[nfl guru]

I used statistical facts, you used a cheeky one liner. Your eye ball may tell you something else, but the facts are listed above. 

 

 

So, let me understand this.  A comment was made about the Vikings having a top 10 defense and was much better than Dallas, and someone puts up some stats to show how incorrect that statement was and now, that person who put up the stats has no football knowledge?  Interesting.

 

Redskins defense 333 ypg(9th), 19.3 ppg (9th) 

 

Do you believe these stats that imply the redskins are a top 10 defense?? Facts amirite??

 

Smh, casual fans exposing themselves in this thread. Mike Zimmer will have that vikings defense humming once he gets more time.  

[bradboyd80]

above your post

yep, saw it. 

[TheButler]

Points allowed is a seriously misleading stat. All others only take into account defense accountability, which Minnesota excels in.

Points allowed is heavily influenced by offense and special teams.

If that is your analysist when comparing minnesota's defense vs the Cowboys then you have nothing.

Let's all not forget how historically "amazing" the Dallas defense was last year.

 

And they are similar, none of the stats are an outlier that says this is the some historical d (sans the sack totals).

 

I don't think Colt played Dallas last year, so that is irrelevant.

[joeken24]

Cousins is/was developing too, but his level of play was/is concerning.  He became a turnover machine and completely lost all confidence in himself at the worst times.

 

Cousins was simply a time bomb of a QB in every game.  When he took over as QB, I said that if he had mentally gotten over his tendency to fall apart after a couple bad throws, he'd be fine.

 

He hadn't.  3 INTs vs. ARIZ, an early one against TENN.  He simply wasn't mentally fit to be starting once he made a couple mistakes in a game, and that's simply the situation with him.  He's still developing, but that's what he's got to do.  RGIII hasn't seemed to mentally collapse like that.

 

As for McCoy, I've liked him a lot, and always felt he didn't get a fair shake in CLE.  That being said, if you watch him, you see his ceiling.  He's a proficient game manager, but not a franchise guy.  He has 1 TD, 1 INT for the season, made some good, some bad plays at Dallas, had some defensive help, and we got a win.  He's had since 2010, so where he's at now is likely where he's going to be, and while I didn't see tons of bad, I didn't see anything to suggest his ceiling is higher either.

 

 

Stop trying to run a developing QB out of town.

 

You simply CAN NOT be 50 years old.  If you are, you must be a new football fan, because most long tenured fans your age would have remembered the 70s and 80s (and 90s), and how back then, QBs were coddled for 3+ years in little development cocoons.

 

Colt McCoy, for all the credit you're giving him, has 1 TD and 1 INT, same as RGIII.  

 

YOU'RE the one who needs to stop having a double standard.  Colt made some bad passes against Dallas too, but you seem to be giving him a pass and holding him up as preferable.

 

Colt got us 20 points in a game where we had the defense playing well and helping us (5 sacks, 2 turnovers).

 

RGIII got us 26 in a game where the defense gave him no favors (2 sacks, no turnovers).

 

 

I'm not saying Griffin is amazing, but you are tearing him down far far too much, focusing almost purely on the negative, and giving him no credit for the positive, and aren't willing to let him develop to see if he can limit the negatives.

 

Again, come back after 2015.  By then you will either have been proven right or wrong.  If it's the former, I'll likely be agreeing with you.  If it's the latter, you'll have to accept you judged too early and too harshly.

I am at piece with revisiting this in 2015, right or wrong. I've already said, I just want the Redskins to win. I simply don't see RGIII as the long term solution. After being on this planet, watching, playing and coaching football for 50 years, I know a good QB when I see one. RGIII needs development, I agree. My argument is that I just don't believe his innate need to make a play every down, his bad habits and the limited time every team has to develop a player will be enough to get him to an elite status in this leage.The average career for a QB is 4.44 years. He has already lost two years due to injury!! Plus he has multiple leg injuries. Beyond the physical concerns, you have to consider the business side of this game as well. Griffin's contract will be up before we know it. Unless the Redskin's see a dramatic change in his development, it would be crazy to pay him at an elite level. But let's be clear, RGIII is not a franchise QB right now.

But you did misspell "misspell." Haha - sorry, couldn't resist. 

 

I don't think you can put that loss yesterday on RG3. The D was pretty putrid and they took advantage of it. Plus, they had a rookie QB which really puts us at a disadvantage..historically. Sad, but true. 

I meant to do that

Matt Stafford comes to mind immediately.  Didn't he have injuries in both of his first two seasons?  He seems to be fine now. 

Fine but not franchise.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Remember Jason Cambell? It seemed like we kept waiting forever for his development. Another running QB who failed to pick up pocket presence. 

 

If you think Jason Campbell was a running QB, I don't think you remember Jason Campbell.

[joeken24]

Matt Stafford comes to mind immediately.  Didn't he have injuries in both of his first two seasons?  He seems to be fine now. 

Also Matt Stafford came in the league NFL ready.

[TheButler]

Redskins defense 333 ypg(9th), 19.3 ppg (9th) 

 

Do you believe these stats that imply the redskins are a top 10 defense?? Facts amirite??

 

Smh, casual fans exposing themselves in this thread. Mike Zimmer will have that vikings defense humming once he gets more time.  

Do you ever make statements of fact? Facts are real. In the above comment you listed: a fact, then tried to disprove it with an opinion by question. Then insult, then another opinion that Zimmer will make the D better. Further proving my point that the Minn D is currently not as good as some claim. Currently, is the important part, as we played them yesterday, not at your unspecified date in the future. AMIRITE?

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Also Matt Stafford came in the league NFL ready.

 

Based on what? So you are changing the criteria of your own question when given an example?

[PartyPosse]

It's clear to many of you that your opinion will not be swayed.

You don't like him.

You don't see him as a leader because he gets injured or makes a bad throw from time to time.

But you can either whine and pretend you know how football works or you can support the guy who is your starting QB.

Either way, I, like the organization, don't give a damn what you think.

I am a Redskins fan. Everyone is in it to win and I am sorry you would rather think you know everything than be a part of this.

But your determination to want to be able to tell everyone "I told you so" is annoying and serves no purpose.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Do you ever make statements of fact? Facts are real. In the above comment you listed: a fact, then tried to disprove it with an opinion by question. Then insult, then another opinion that Zimmer will make the D better. Further proving my point that the Minn D is currently not as good as some claim. Currently, is the important part, as we played them yesterday, not at your unspecified date in the future. AMIRITE?

 

The point, which doesn't show in the stats you posted, is that the Vikings defense is far greater at a pressuring and sacking the QB than the Dallas defense is. 

 

Which matters a great deal when evaluating the past 2 weeks worth of QB play 

[TheButler]

It's clear to many of you that your opinion will not be swayed.

You don't like him.

You don't see him as a leader because he gets injured or makes a bad throw from time to time.

But you can either whine and pretend you know how football works or you can support the guy who is your starting QB.

Either way, I, like the organization, don't give a damn what you think.

I am a Redskins fan. Everyone is in it to win and I am sorry you would rather think you know everything than be a part of this.

But your determination to want to be able to tell everyone "I told you so" is annoying and serves no purpose.

 

Isn't this exactly what you are doing?

 

We're all fans. You can support the team and have criticism of the qb, mainly because you support the team.

[DogofWar1]

I really wish instead of calling AlMo's number of his 2nd TD we let Griffin do it.  If his stat line goes from:

- 18/28, 1/1 TD/INT, 251 yards

to something like;

- 19/30 (i'll even throw in one incomplete pass in the red zone), 2/1 TD/INT, 253 yards

 

then the complaints suddenly wouldn't show up as much.

 

Positive TD/INT ratios do wonders for somebody's PR, even if the difference between the positive TD/INT and an even one is entirely on coach play calling.

[TheButler]

The point, which doesn't show in the stats you posted, is that the Vikings defense is far greater at a pressuring and sacking the QB than the Dallas defense is. 

 

Which matters a great deal when evaluating the past 2 weeks worth of QB play 

 

I somewhat agree with that theory. However, statistically the results for each team are similar. They get there a different way (minn sacks, Dallas turnovers), but at the end of the game both points and total yards are similar. 

[PartyPosse]

No, I'm telling you that if your entire goal was to create a profile and start bashing our QB then you are a true class act.

I'm also preaching patience, no one acts like a 2 year brat here when winning.

But even if I was playing the same game, mine would be about positivity. Guys like you seem to thrive on negativity. There is little doubt in my mind that a small part of you enjoys when Griffin fails and the team loses.

[stfuji]

RG3 feels like Mike Vick to me.  Great at times, but basically unreliable.  He seems to be getting worse not better after the injuries.  The other thing of note is that much of the drive extension yesterday was due to roughing the passer calls.  I'd call that lucky because those are pretty close to being sacks as well.  I don't think McCoy or Cousins is the answer, but it feels like RG3 still thinks he can run away from trouble in the pocket, which it appears he can't.  I also wonder if his epileptic escapes aren't causing more trouble in the OLine than anything else.  Seems like he is unpredictable so how can you block for him.  I understand the investment, but unfortunately his body of work is a dud.  I'm done waiting.  Time to move on.  I take a game manager over a game loser at this point. 

 

The INT at halftime and the flub to seal the loss are not excusable mistakes.  One maybe, but both no.  That and holding the ball way to long not throwing it away or down.  What have we got?  A non running sack machine? 

 

Seems like the team overall plays better when we have other QBs in.  If he is the leader were is the inspiration.  Where is the drive.  Its flat when he is in.  You can feel the impending doom through the TV screen. 

[Napoli]

I wouldn't call RG3 the SAVIOR of the skins but shouldn't have to be the sole savior of the skins. He's good enough to carry the team forward into the direction they should be. There are too many faults in the skin team all around to just say its all rob's fault. We need to all get on the same page with the QB situation. If we keep doubting him and saying Colt needs to be in there or Cousins or whoever we will remain the mediocre team we have been. TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL BROTHERS.

[UK Skins]

To me when RG3 is behind center every play looks hap hazard. Almost high schoolish. When Cousins or McCoy was back there it looked like an NFL team. Atleast to me it did. Step up into the pocket and throw the darn ball! That's all you gotta do.

 

Wanted to quote this because that's exactly how I feel. That's not to say that one day Griffin might not be the better of the three (he's supposed to have more potential after all!) but right now we just look more professional when Cousins or McCoy are under center.

[joeken24]

Based on what? So you are changing the criteria of your own question when given an example?

Not changing the criteria. My bad, I was actually thinking about the Sam Bradford.  

Anyway, Matthew Stafford??!! Wow.

 

Ok, if that is one player you can come up with in the history of the NFL, so be it. Truth is, at this point, I'd be satisfied with that out of RGIII.

Only QB on the Skins that has a chance to be great is RG3.

 

It's either him or draft another QB in 3 years.

Hopefully, there's a drastic change to RGIII game. But right now, it looks like Gruden needs to start looking to the future. I mean, who really thinks RGIII will stay injury free for the next three years?

[TheButler]

No, I'm telling you that if your entire goal was to create a profile and start bashing our QB then you are a true class act.

I'm also preaching patience, no one acts like a 2 year brat here when winning.

But even if I was playing the same game, mine would be about positivity. Guys like you seem to thrive on negativity. There is little doubt in my mind that a small part of you enjoys when Griffin fails and the team loses.

I didn't just create a profile, I typically read and don't post much, or ever really.

 

Criticizing and bashing are different. He's not playing to his potential, hasn't for a while. That is the unemotional fact of the situation. It is irritating that people raise the bar for the backups, or dismiss their achievements altogether, and then turn around a fawn over mediocre performances by Griffin. If anyone is acting like a 2 year old brat, it's you. You name call and make smart ass remarks because our opinions don't align. I have only stated my opinion, backed with the facts available.  

[Alexa]

No way he stays injury free the next three years. It looked like he almost wasn't going to make it out of the game yesterday.

[Rskins06]

I would agree, I find it hard to believe he will stay healthy.  A couple times yesterday, I didn't think he was gonna get up.  If he doesn't change the way he plays, he will not stay healthy.  The Redskins do not need a great QB who never plays because he is injured, they need a good/very good QB who can stay on the field.

 

time will tell.

[PartyPosse]

All I'm saying is a quarterback's performance is as much the result of how his own team plays, what the opponents give him as it is his own play.

 

He was drafted as a running QB with a mobile line that moves with him. For the first year he was great. Reckless but great. NO one can contest that. A freak injury because of his inexperience sliding and getting out of bounds and suddenly the entire foundation that was built was flawed.

 

Last year was a disaster because they tried to keep him in the pocket WITHOUT beefing up the line. He was a sitting duck back there with a line that averaged, what, 280? That was NEVER going to work no matter how healthy he was. That was the ultimate putting a square peg into a round hole. He got beaten and battered. You can say he held the ball, overthrew. Whatever. In my opinion he didn't have a chance from day 1. Having a terrible group of receiving options didn't help. Hell we have a grand total of 1 receiver from last year consistently seeing the field this year. TE is another story as Davis in his show me year was a complete fiasco, Paulsen was Paulsen and Reed was great until he got hurt. Essentially he had NO line NO checkdown options and No green light to run for his life.

 

This year they're still trying to keep him as a a pocket passer, assuming that more weapons will make a difference. Well what's the point of putting higher calibre weapons on a soldier if you're just going to drop him in the middle of a field with no protection? They tried to add some weight to the line, problem is the weight was on the bodies of sub-mediocre linemen. Instead of light guys getting pushed off their feet last year, now it's heavy guys getting pushed off their feet. 

 

Cousins and McCoy didn't feel the same pressure, why? Because no team was scared of them. Cousins was given all day to throw, why? Because every defense had already seen what happens when you let Cousins throw - you get the ball back. McCoy, up until that Cowboys game was the same way. Colt could have played checkdown all day in the face of pressure, the Cowboys gameplan was to make Colt beat them. They, fortunately, never counted on the lame duck their offense was going to put up. Rest assured if any of these teams wanted to dial up pressure on these fools, it would have been ugly.

 

I just think it's absurd comparing performances not just based on the defenses, but how the defenses plan. Why do you think RG3 is constantly under pressure? Because any DC is well aware that with a little bit of time RG3 can beat you in a dozen different ways. Same way why the best QBs are ALWAYS dealing with pressure. You never hear about the pressure Hoyer faces or Kyle Orton. They play soft and DARE them to beat them. Cousins was dared to win and he failed miserably. McCoy's INT in the first half in the Red Zone was an indication that he is very capable of doing them same. With that said, if the ceiling with your backups is only as high as the floor of your starting QB, maybe you should spend more time rooting him on instead of tearing him down.

[skins214428hail]

To me. When i watch Bobby Three Sticks. He looks slower. The knee injury took his gift of elite speed. Without that speed he must learn to adapt. It is unfortunate that he has so much pressure on him. The young man really needs time to develop into a pro style offense. I believe he is capable. But it takes more then a rocket laser arm to be a good qb. The poise he displayed in 2012 is lost in his broken confidence. 

[joeken24]

Guessing you didn't even watch the game.  He made quite a few throws from the pocket with guys all over him and pressure in his face; the first Djax bomb being one of them. 

I watched the game. And it's like every other game RGIII has played in thus far. He'll show flashes of "greatness" (whatever that is) and then he'll take a sack or a unnecessary hit that leaves you scratching your head. So, some chalk it up to a lack of experience. Others, like me look less at the flash and potential and more at the fundementals.

Bottom line: RGIII is a raw talent with fundamental flaws. Some hope to see it all come together (including me). But, some have decided that it will take too much time for it to come together (like me) and will hurt this team in the long run.

 

He's like a bad girlfriend that is drop dead gorgeous. Sometimes she make you feel like you're on top of the world. But most times you feel miserable. Nasty little cycle....